Question about remote casting

[Eaglejarl]

Hi all,

This is a question about RAW:

Imagine that you've glued a scroll (let's say Monster Summoning I) to a wall, backed up until you're outside the normal range and then you read it through a telescope. What happens?

Does the spell fail completely? Does the monster appear near you? Does it appear near the wall?


I would really like the answer to be "it appears near the wall" because otherwise I'm going to have to rewrite an important chunk of the story I'm working on, so if there's any way to make that work it would be great. I have no problem accepting shady, hairsplitting interpretations of the rules, I just don't want to flat out contradict them.

[HalfQuart]

I have no idea what the RAW answer to your question is, but it reminds me of the debates people have over activating Explosive Runes.. It's a bit different, but it might be helpful to review some of those threads.

[Fax Celestis]

If your end goal is remote activation of a scroll, and you're okay with shady interpretations of the rules, I'm also going to assume you're going to be okay with homebrewed material.

So make a spell that's, say, fourth level that allows you to read and activate a scroll at a distance. At that level, you probably can get away with not even needing line of effect, if you make it a sensor spell like arcane eye.

[Slipperychicken]

RAW, I think using a scroll allows the scroll's user to cast the spell... Although for a real game, I could see it going either way.

If telescopic scroll-reading makes your game more awesome without disrupting balance too much, I say clear it with your players, then go for it.

[rot42]

I would say that this falls under the general prohibition against activating a magic item not under your control. Keep in mind that your players will want to be able to use this trick if you allow it.

Does this need to be a scroll, or do you just need a way of getting the spell cast from way off yonder? Bespoke magic items can function pretty much however you want, including being paired with a remote detonator. Spell casting traps (resetting or non) or Glyph of Warding (as the spell or from a Glyph Seal (MIC)) can have unusual conditions for activation.

Would Swift action teleportation or invisibility work? Or having a minion teleport your villain away immediately after the scroll is read?

In one of the Forgotten Realms books there is a way to imbue an undead with a spell. My memory is a bit hazy on the specifics (and the source, sorry), but I think it allows the spell to be cast when it is destroyed or when you choose.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Just read through the entire section on scrolls in the SRD, link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm).

First, It never says you need to hold the scroll to activate it. You just need to be able to decipher it then read it to activate it. You also need to fulfill the other requirements or circumvent them through one or more UMD checks.

Second, It says activating a scroll is basically like casting a spell. It doesn't say anything about the spell coming from the scroll so my RAW interpretation would be that the spell must come from you. So the range would be based off of where you where not the scroll.

[Telok]

I would suggest using a Glyph of Warding or a custom Symbol spell backed up by a Magic Mouth spell.

Figure out what spell you want to go off and put that in the Glyph or Symbol. Set the trigger of the Glyph "When a celestial owl or fiendish hawk attacks the wall." and trigger it with a Summoned Monster I spell. If you used the Symbol version of this you make the Symbol trigger off of a code phrase. The Magic Mouth Spell will speak the code phrase in response to the Summom Monster trigger.

While there might not be any legal restriction barring you from doing something I have found it better to use methods that everyone agrees are legal, this way you don't create precedents for loose or abusable rules interpretations. Assume that your players/DM will duplicate this to thier advantage if it is at all possible.

[Slipperychicken]

Contingent Spells let you set a spell onto a creature, to be cast when a special trigger is met. He could Craft a Contingent Spell onto a caged rat (or other innocuous, easily concealed creature like a bug) at the scene, and cause the triggering condition to occur.

Costs more, and is somewhat trickier, but more RAW-friendly.

[Pickford]

Hi all,

This is a question about RAW:

Imagine that you've glued a scroll (let's say Monster Summoning I) to a wall, backed up until you're outside the normal range and then you read it through a telescope. What happens?

Does the spell fail completely? Does the monster appear near you? Does it appear near the wall?


I would really like the answer to be "it appears near the wall" because otherwise I'm going to have to rewrite an important chunk of the story I'm working on, so if there's any way to make that work it would be great. I have no problem accepting shady, hairsplitting interpretations of the rules, I just don't want to flat out contradict them.


To activate a scroll, a spellcaster must read the spell written on it...Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items...In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell.

There are other requirements but nothing under that section in the DMG indicates you could not activate a scroll remotely so long as you could read it. (Although presumably anyone 'else' who met the requirements of the scroll could do exactly that).

[rot42]

Rules Compendium p. 84 under Activating Magic Items: "You can't activate an item that you don't properly possess, hold, or wear."

[Eaglejarl]

Rules Compendium p. 84 under Activating Magic Items: "You can't activate an item that you don't properly possess, hold, or wear."


Weeellll...I possess (have ownership of) an area rug, but it's currently in storage 3000 miles away.

That works, right? Right? ;)

[NeoPhoenix0]

Rules Compendium p. 84 under Activating Magic Items: "You can't activate an item that you don't properly possess, hold, or wear."

I knew there was a reason I liked the Rules Compendium. However there are some people who keep telling me about how inconsistent it is, but all they ever show me is the same non-example of the ability table defining how Sp, Su, and Ex interact with various things, claiming something about Na not being there. There are very obvious reasons why it doesn't need to be in that table.

Rant aside, In my opinion that RC rule pretty much stops you from activating the scroll remotely. Even if you claim the reprinting of the core books overrules the RC, they don't have specific rules about needing to have certain magic items on your person to activate it so this rule would still work.

[Pickford]

I knew there was a reason I liked the Rules Compendium. However there are some people who keep telling me about how inconsistent it is, but all they ever show me is the same non-example of the ability table defining how Sp, Su, and Ex interact with various things, claiming something about Na not being there. There are very obvious reasons why it doesn't need to be in that table.

Rant aside, In my opinion that RC rule pretty much stops you from activating the scroll remotely. Even if you claim the reprinting of the core books overrules the RC, they don't have specific rules about needing to have certain magic items on your person to activate it so this rule would still work.

Can we find that in the core rules? Because otherwise I'm inclined to wonder if RC didn't just make that up.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Can we find that in the core rules? Because otherwise I'm inclined to wonder if RC didn't just make that up.

It's not in the core rules. That is the entire point of the rules compendium. To collect and fix the main rules. There is some stupid argument about the premium edition reprints overruling the RC.

[Karnith]

Can we find that in the core rules? Because otherwise I'm inclined to wonder if RC didn't just make that up.
The Rules Compendium doesn't need to refer to earlier rules; it is an official book and is the primary source for all the rules that it contains. The whole point of the RC is to expand on and override the core rules. Per Rules Compendium:

The book you hold in your hands is the definitive guide for how to play the 3.5 revision of the Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game. Years in the making, it gather resources from a wide variety of supplements, rules errata, and rules clarifications to provide an authoritative guide for playing the D&D game. It updates and elucidates the rules, as well as expanding on them in ways that make it more fun and easier to play. When a preexisting core book or supplement differs with the rules herein, Rules Compendium is meant to take precedence. If you have a question on how to play D&D at the table, this book is meant to answer that question.(Emphasis mine)

Of course, there is disagreement about whether RC actually can override the core rules (NeoPhoenix0 referred to one such argument), but it unquestionably contains rules; it's not stuck in the same circle of Hell that the FAQ is.

[Gemini476]

Rules Compendium p. 84 under Activating Magic Items: "You can't activate an item that you don't properly possess, hold, or wear."

So is this the only use for a Dvati spellcaster? I think it is.

So here's what you do: Have Chain of Eyes Spell Mastered/tattooed on your thigh/as a known spell. Cast it with yourself as the target. Transfer the spell to your twin, who is at home with a bucket of scrolls. Send a message somehow, I don't know. Morse code based on hurting yourself, maybe? It goes over your emphatic link, at least.

Your twin holds the scroll. As you are your twin, it is in your possession. Read it through your Chain of Eyes to cast it.

And that's how you never need to worry about being imprisoned without a spellbook ever again.

If you can survive on d2+CON HP/level, that is.

Incidentally this might work with wands as well, so you can wield four wands at the same time. Awesome. You can only cast from two each turn, though, and that's with a feat. But still!
That's assuming that you cast the spell and not the wand... Which might be inaccurate.