So what's Tarquin's next move?

[SavageWombat]

What is Tarquin going to do next? Effectively, the Order has him boxed into a corner - he can't beat them with the current tactics, and his allies have decided not to aid him further.

The only outcome I can think of is that he's about to lose his patience with the whole thing and wind up doing something truly stupid, rather than just accept the loss and back off. And that's going to be fatal for somebody.

Does anyone else see any other option, apart from "stand there and watch the Order escape"?

[Gift Jeraff]

Ride the triceratops into battle and take matters into his own hands and hopefully die.

[Commander672]

I don't think he'll lose his patience. Tarquin is all about patience and forethought. He's probably banking on numbers now: Eventually, Roy will run out of hitpoints, V will run out of spells, Belkar's protection form arrows spell will run its course, Haley will run out of arrows (assuming the crossbow bolts don't fit her bow), Durkon's turned soldiers will be overwhelmed (and the number that win their will saves will further complicate matters), and Elan will run out of puns.

Sure he'll lose a lot of soldiers, but its an army. He's not going to run out anytime soon.

If he does decide status quo isn't to his liking, remember he's trounced the order before, alone, "without even trying". So he's no pushover in combat. He may also decide to let Elan & company go just to heighten the tension of their climatic final duel (ignoring the fact that we know the final duel will be with Xykon).

[Kornaki]

He trounced the Order when V wasn't there, which might be important.

[Cerussite]

He trounced the Order when V wasn't there, which might be important.

When V wasn't there, Durkon wasn't a vampire and Belkar wasn't mounted on a friggin' allosaurus.

[veti]

Number crunching is fun.

Let's consider Tarquin's archers. The limiting factor for them is most likely 'ammunition'. Let's guess, wildly, that they carry 60 rounds each.

Statistically, that means that by the end of the battle, each archer will get an average of 3 hits. Let's be kind to the Order, and say that the massed ranks of melee soldiers surrounding them now provide "partial cover" - in that case, it's only 2.4 hits per archer. And let's assume they're light crossbows, so that's an average of 4.5 damage per hit, excluding crits for the moment. So we're looking at (4.5 x 2.4 =) 10.8 damage per archer, over the course of the battle.

Let's assume Tarquin has 60 archers (reasonable lower bound estimate, based on the last frame of 916 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0916.html)). Then the Order is looking at 648 damage from archers. Shared between 4 PCs plus Spikey, that's just under 130 points each.

Durkon and Spikey can shrug it off, no worries for them - every shot that hits them is basically wasted. V has Stoneskin, that's 150 points of damage resistance - just enough. Belkar only gets 100 points from Prot from Arrows, so he could be in trouble unless he gets back to hiding under that dinosaur.

But what about Roy? How many hit points does he have? Could be a close run thing for him. OK, potions should see him through - this time. But at best, he'll be considerably weakened.

And that's just counting archers, and making pretty generous assumptions all the way. If they're using heavy crossbows, or if there are more of them, or if you factor in crits, or if a melee mook or dinosaur occasionally gets close enough to take a swing - the picture gets steadily grimmer.

And that's why I think their only realistic prospects of survival are (a) Tarquin changes his mind, or (b) they escape into the Rift.

[Cerussite]

Number crunching is fun.

Let's consider Tarquin's archers. The limiting factor for them is most likely 'ammunition'. Let's guess, wildly, that they carry 60 rounds each.

Statistically, that means that by the end of the battle, each archer will get an average of 3 hits. Let's be kind to the Order, and say that the massed ranks of melee soldiers surrounding them now provide "partial cover" - in that case, it's only 2.4 hits per archer. And let's assume they're light crossbows, so that's an average of 4.5 damage per hit, excluding crits for the moment. So we're looking at (4.5 x 2.4 =) 10.8 damage per archer, over the course of the battle.

Let's assume Tarquin has 60 archers (reasonable lower bound estimate, based on the last frame of 916 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0916.html)). Then the Order is looking at 648 damage from archers. Shared between 4 PCs plus Spikey, that's just under 130 points each.

Durkon and Spikey can shrug it off, no worries for them - every shot that hits them is basically wasted. V has Stoneskin, that's 150 points of damage resistance - just enough. Belkar only gets 100 points from Prot from Arrows, so he could be in trouble unless he gets back to hiding under that dinosaur.

But what about Roy? How many hit points does he have? Could be a close run thing for him. OK, potions should see him through - this time. But at best, he'll be considerably weakened.

And that's just counting archers, and making pretty generous assumptions all the way. If they're using heavy crossbows, or if there are more of them, or if you factor in crits, or if a melee mook or dinosaur occasionally gets close enough to take a swing - the picture gets steadily grimmer.

And that's why I think their only realistic prospects of survival are (a) Tarquin changes his mind, or (b) they escape into the Rift.

You're forgetting Haley can off 4 archers per round, Durkon can likely dominate a few, V still has a buttload of spells and that Belkar can close in really quickly while mounted on a friggin' allosaurus. I'd be hard pressed to think any of these archers will survive for the 60 rounds they need to unload all of those projectiles.

The limiting factor there isn't ammunition: it's hit points.

[Breccia]

Tarquin has already proven himself to know when he lost. That realization is coming closer and closer with each new page: Roy carving mooks like salami, followed by Haley picking off the archers, followed by his own teammates refusing to help, followed by V incinerating dozens and crippling his air force, and finally now with an arrow-proof Belkar riding his own allosaurus.

Genre-driven or not, he's neither blind nor stupid. It's time for him to cut and run, or resume negotiations and offers of assistance. Anything else borders on the insane.

[rbetieh]

Seeing as he is recognizing this as a "Big Damn Heroes" moment, instead of climactic execution scene, his dramatic resource is to make like Cobra Commander and "Retreat, you fools, RETREAT!". Too bad, he probably could still win, based on his 1v5 performance on the pyramid, but villains only use that card as an introduction.

[King of Nowhere]

Tarquin should be able to take the order alone. Durkon is out of spells, and V started the day prepared to explore the canyon and so is likely to have mostly divinations or other non-battle centered spells. Plus, I'm pretty sure Tarquin can make any saving throw V can dish out. So he may go in and take matters in his hands. Either that, or cut of his losses.

But I'm looking forward to a duel between allosaur-mounted belkar and triceratop-mounted tarquin.

[johnbragg]

Tarquin has already proven himself to know when he lost. .

Genre-driven or not, he's neither blind nor stupid. It's time for him to cut and run, or resume negotiations and offers of assistance. Anything else borders on the insane.

This. Something something underestimated your allies, my son. Very well, I'll call off the army, and here's a sweet magic trinket for each of you--ring of regeneration for Elan, as promised, amulet of natural armor +3 for Belkar, keen edge scabbard for Roy. Durkula has Malak's staff plus new vampire powers. V gets...Zzzdtris' spell book with the 3.0 super-duration Fly spell! Haley gets Gloves of Dexterity +4?

Now, I want you all to acknowledge Elan as your leader. Elan, you first.

[Forikroder]

This. Something something underestimated your allies, my son. Very well, I'll call off the army, and here's a sweet magic trinket for each of you--ring of regeneration for Elan, as promised, amulet of natural armor +3 for Belkar, keen edge scabbard for Roy. Durkula has Malak's staff plus new vampire powers. V gets...Zzzdtris' spell book with the 3.0 super-duration Fly spell! Haley gets Gloves of Dexterity +4?

Now, I want you all to acknowledge Elan as your leader. Elan, you first.

that wont work, even if tehy pretend to acknowlege elan as the leader he knows that Elan will still take the backseat

[johnbragg]

that wont work, even if tehy pretend to acknowlege elan as the leader he knows that Elan will still take the backseat

It won't work all at once but it produces *angst*, and plants the seeds of dissension and ambition.

Not Tarquin's Plan A, but it's the most likely to get Tarquin what he wants, which is his son to be "the Big Hero who takes down his villainous father" instead of "Roy's loyal friend and ally."

[Forikroder]

It won't work all at once but it produces *angst*, and plants the seeds of dissension and ambition.

Not Tarquin's Plan A, but it's the most likely to get Tarquin what he wants, which is his son to be "the Big Hero who takes down his villainous father" instead of "Roy's loyal friend and ally."

you think Elan will start a coup against Roy...

[johnbragg]

you think Elan will start a coup against Roy...

I don't, but I'm not Tarquin.

Assuming that Tarquin reads the battle as either lost, or not worth losing half the army over, I'm saying his fallback plan is to try to persuade/influence Elan to not defer to Roy, to be his own hero and not a supporting character or part of an ensemble cast.

Will it work? Maybe not. Elan is fundamentally decent--but Tarquin has shown no understanding of that before.

Would the party swear allegiance to Elan? I think so. Roy would be the first to do it--it gets them out of this fight, they get shinies that will help them against Xykon, it solves Elan's dilemma conundrum. Once Roy does it, Durkula is on board--in a later strip, it can be revealed that he was following his leader Roy's instructions, so Lawful (Evil)--Haley, Belkar and V will go along.

Wait, amend what I said before. Belkar doesn't get a magic item--he gets the allosaurus!

It's a longshot for Tarquin, but it's the best card he has to play once the whole "kill Roy the mentor" thing goes south.

[2.5 cats]

Just a general comment that the "natural 20 = automatic hit" works fine for small encounters, but I'd wager that in the context of large armies that rule would need to be fudged, otherwise, the dominant armies would feature nothing but longbowmen with buckets of arrows spraying away at 500 yards or whatever the rules say absolute maximum range may be.

It similarly won't bother me at all if the rule gets fudged here. (And yes, I know that the general made reference to this rule before the Azure City battle.) Anyway, I wouldn't count on the natural-20 rule to mean the large army automatically wins.

-------------

As to the question, the biggest danger I see for the Order of the Stick is that Tarquin's spell caster friend isn't helping because 'he doesn't see the profit in it." Perhaps all Tarquin has to do is offer him a pretty gem or whatever and he's in. He may have a way to persuade Laurin to help as well. Not saying he'd definitely do it, but it's a real possibility iMHO.

[Xelbiuj]

Every time someone says that he beat the order 1v5 a puppy is murdered.

He resisted one spell managed to not immediately get demolished.

That was their first encounter which only latest a round, 2? and resulted in no deaths, no real injuries. Second, the Order forced a retreat from him and Z, KO'd Nale, banished Sabine, and cut off Qarr and Malack.

[The MunchKING]

Every time someone says that he beat the order 1v5 a puppy is murdered.

He resisted one spell managed to not immediately get demolished.

That was their first encounter which only latest a round, 2? and resulted in no deaths, no real injuries. Second, the Order forced a retreat from him and Z, KO'd Nale, banished Sabine, and cut off Qarr and Malack.

I think they're talking about the time he was pretending to be Thog and smacked them around pretty hard.

[sengmeng]

Just a general comment that the "natural 20 = automatic hit" works fine for small encounters, but I'd wager that in the context of large armies that rule would need to be fudged, otherwise, the dominant armies would feature nothing but longbowmen with buckets of arrows spraying away at 500 yards or whatever the rules say absolute maximum range may be.

It similarly won't bother me at all if the rule gets fudged here. (And yes, I know that the general made reference to this rule before the Azure City battle.) Anyway, I wouldn't count on the natural-20 rule to mean the large army automatically wins.

That would make it the most historically accurate tactic ever employed by an army in D&D, then.



As to the question, the biggest danger I see for the Order of the Stick is that Tarquin's spell caster friend isn't helping because 'he doesn't see the profit in it." Perhaps all Tarquin has to do is offer him a pretty gem or whatever and he's in. He may have a way to persuade Laurin to help as well. Not saying he'd definitely do it, but it's a real possibility iMHO.

Probably true, but the offer seems thematically inappropriate for Tarquin (who's all a out that) and he seems to have already given up on persuading them. I'm guessing he'll step in himself actually. He was concerned about "making Greenhilt look like a badass" before, and Belkar just topped that hardcore. Belkar may have just made himself a target via threatening Big T's ego and upstaging the story he's crafting between Elan and himself. Cue Epic dinosaur duel with Tarquin wielding Chekhov's whip. (Although, without the prophecy, I admit I might not be making this prediction. But I really want to see Tarquin using a whip in a dinosaur joust with Belkar)

[Mike Havran]

Every time someone says that he beat the order 1v5 a puppy is murdered.

He resisted one spell managed to not immediately get demolished.

That was their first encounter which only latest a round, 2? and resulted in no deaths, no real injuries. Second, the Order forced a retreat from him and Z, KO'd Nale, banished Sabine, and cut off Qarr and Malack.I hate puppies :smallamused:

But seriously, Malack was angry because Tarquin didn't start kickin' ass and banishing the Order down, down below. And the two-hundred-something-old-vampire-guy that watched Tarquin fight for 35 years should know his stuff.

[Alignment]

Tarquin has already proven himself to know when he lost. [...] It's time for him to cut and run, or resume negotiations and offers of assistance. Anything else borders on the insane.


Seeing as he is recognizing this as a "Big Damn Heroes" moment, instead of climactic execution scene, his dramatic resource is to make like Cobra Commander and "Retreat, you fools, RETREAT!".[...]

Seconding these. Tarquin should realize he's not going to win this battle. He's on kind of a bad decision streak, though.

[veti]

It's time for him to cut and run, or resume negotiations and offers of assistance. Anything else borders on the insane.

Seems to me that putting your faith in Tarquin's sanity is - leaning on a very, very thin stick indeed.

[Tebryn]

He's not shown himself to be insane. Delusional? Sure but you don't have to be insane to be that. He's operating in a world that does indeed operate on the literary conventions he thinks they do. He's simply mistaken in what capacity he serves it. He thinks he's the main villain, he thinks it's his story. He isn't and it isn't.

[Forikroder]

Seems to me that putting your faith in Tarquin's sanity is - leaning on a very, very thin stick indeed.

hes insane in the way that he will act in a sane manner here

he knows that this isnt an execution scene if he joins the battle now hell simply look like hes winning until they turn it around last second as long as he avoids joinging the fight hes immortal


He's not shown himself to be insane. Delusional? Sure but you don't have to be insane to be that. He's operating in a world that does indeed operate on the literary conventions he thinks they do. He's simply mistaken in what capacity he serves it. He thinks he's the main villain, he thinks it's his story. He isn't and it isn't.

he thinks the world follows rules that it doesnt and is obsessed with changing things in order to follow those rules

id classify that as insane

[Tebryn]

I suppose it comes down to how we define insane. Is he acting irrationally? Hard to say. It's not that the world doesn't work the way he thinks it does, it's that it doesn't work the way he thinks it does in relation to -him-. He's acting rationally under his understanding of the world at the very least. Is he insane in so far as being mentally ill? He's certainly got Megalomaniac tendencies so on that scale he's insane. The main thing is he's consistent with his methodology, he's Lawful Evil after all. There's an order he works under, he doesn't deviate from that order.

[Alignment]

I certainly don't consider Tarquin insane. He's very definitely in control of his actions and should be treated as such. He may think highly of himself and be mistaken on some very important details of the narrative, but he's still responsible for everything he does.

[Bulldog Psion]

It seems unlikely that Tarquin's side story will last longer than the main story with Xykon and Redcloak.

From that, I draw the conclusion that his story will be wrapped up here.

Carrying that a step further, I think that whatever he decides to do next will cause him to die. Either Big Guy will eat him, or Ian Starshine will show up and knife him, or he'll tick off Miron and Laurin enough in some way that they kill him and depart the field.

All of this is meta, storytelling-based stuff, of course. But really, Tarquin needs a resolution here and now so the story can continue cleanly. And in this case, I think "resolution" means "death."

[Dwy]

T could very well die here. That would leave two far more reasonable people in charge of the evil forces. One that could "see for herself" that Xykon needs to be stopped for her plumber daughter to get to live a fulfilling life... but the Giant mostly outmaneuvers my imagination when it comes to predictions like this.

[Forikroder]

I suppose it comes down to how we define insane. Is he acting irrationally? Hard to say. It's not that the world doesn't work the way he thinks it does, it's that it doesn't work the way he thinks it does in relation to -him-. He's acting rationally under his understanding of the world at the very least. Is he insane in so far as being mentally ill? He's certainly got Megalomaniac tendencies so on that scale he's insane. The main thing is he's consistent with his methodology, he's Lawful Evil after all. There's an order he works under, he doesn't deviate from that order.

the world just simply doesnt work how he thinks it works

[Ghost Nappa]

Xykon's Introduction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0013.html)
Nale's Introduction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0043.html)
Tarquin's Introduction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html)
Nale's Death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0913.html)

Nale's Run: 913-43+1 = 871 Comics.

If Tarquin is going to be "longer lived" than Nale he needs to survive to...say...Comic 50+871+1 =922 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0922.html)?

Oh look. He's already done it. Funny how Math works sometimes.

[Forikroder]

Xykon's Introduction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0013.html)
Nale's Introduction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0043.html)
Tarquin's Introduction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html)
Nale's Death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0913.html)

Nale's Run: 913-43+1 = 871 Comics.

If Tarquin is going to be "longer lived" than Nale he needs to survive to...say...Comic 50+871+1 =922 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0922.html)?

Oh look. He's already done it. Funny how Math works sometimes.
he doesnt count as a character until he actually got introduced though in the EoB

[Mike Havran]

It seems unlikely that Tarquin's side story will last longer than the main story with Xykon and Redcloak.

From that, I draw the conclusion that his story will be wrapped up here.

Carrying that a step further, I think that whatever he decides to do next will cause him to die. Either Big Guy will eat him, or Ian Starshine will show up and knife him, or he'll tick off Miron and Laurin enough in some way that they kill him and depart the field.

All of this is meta, storytelling-based stuff, of course. But really, Tarquin needs a resolution here and now so the story can continue cleanly. And in this case, I think "resolution" means "death."I disagree. These are the base points from my assumption:
1. Elan has to get a happy ending.

2. Tarquin's empire scheme will likely exist even after his demise, given that there will be still members of his team out there alive and kicking (or without a huge motivation to back down from the plan)

3. Elan's happy ending likely doesn't involve his acceptance that his dad's scheme persists and continues to oppress the people on the Western Continent.

4. But the entire TT can't die in the next few panels because they aren't all there and Laurin isn't really in a mood to summon them for whatever reason.

5. And the Order can't deal with it right now because the Zyklon thing is more important.

6. And if they are going to deal with it after, it would make much more sense to have Tarquin, the only TT member who's fleshed out enough to oppose them.


he doesnt count as a character until he actually got introduced though in the EoBWhy?

[dtilque]

This. Something something underestimated your allies, my son. Very well, I'll call off the army, and here's a sweet magic trinket for each of you--ring of regeneration for Elan, as promised,

Elan already turned down that ring. I don't think anything has happened to change his mind about accepting it. Try again.

[johnbragg]

Elan already turned down that ring. I don't think anything has happened to change his mind about accepting it. Try again.

REiterating my point--the choice is, take the magic trinkets and acknowledge Elan as leader of the party, or play the combat out to the end and see if the Order survives. Of more precisely, if anyone from the Order dies.

[Ghost Nappa]

he doesnt count as a character until he actually got introduced though in the EoB

My point is that he has existed in some way in our minds since the nigh beginning of the comic.

[Kish]

I think it's really reaching to say that that "cold and ruthless general, whose name we did not learn but many, many people would spend hundreds of strips asserting that we knew it was Lord Tyrinar the Bloody anyway" was in the comic ever since #50.

It wouldn't really be any more of a stretch to say that he was in the comic since strip #1; presumably none of the readers thought the unnamed blond bard had grown on a tree, so his father (and his mother and the parents of all the other characters) "existed in some way in our minds."

[littlebum2002]

He trounced the Order when V wasn't there, which might be important.

I don't understand this. Why would "Tarquin can beat the Order when they're fighting without their strongest member" be relevant in determining whether he would beat them when they have their strongest member?

Isn't that like saying "Elan can beat Roy in a fight if Roy's arms are tied behind his back, which might be important"?

[BaronOfHell]

From what I've learned reading these boards, D&D success is largely determined by preparations made. Preparation is something Tarquin does very well, I believe.

Therefore, I don't think it's unreasonable to think T has prepared for the need for him to solo the Order, but it doesn't mean he'll do it now (I don't think he will).

We've also seen it's possible for the entire Order to lose to characters weaker than T (Miko), despite all being at a lower level at the time, and we've also seen Roy more or less being able to solo Miko (though she got a good kick to his face) once he'd his sword.

Finally we've seen Miko was able to defeat RC in a 1 vs. 1 when RC was lower level.

All in all, I would certainly not call out the possibility for any major character to be able to take on the Order effectively just as well I wouldn't find it improbable that any single member of the Order could do well in a 1 vs. 1 against the very same character.

While I personally enjoy the idea that if A beats B, and B beats C, then A should beat C, but that's a very low dimensional analysis, where reality, or merely a story like this, have so many different variables that all matters to some degree, that such an assessment only works under certain circumstances. But we do not know the environment fully, so we can never be sure these circumstances are sufficiently met, therefore it's not possible to eliminate any possible outcome of such a battle, despite of previous evidence.

[sengmeng]

the Our world just simply doesnt work how he thinks it works

Fixed........

[dtilque]

REiterating my point--the choice is, take the magic trinkets and acknowledge Elan as leader of the party, or play the combat out to the end and see if the Order survives. Of more precisely, if anyone from the Order dies.

I may be misreading Elan's character, but I don't think any of that would be enough to change his mind.

[Seto]

It seems unlikely that Tarquin's side story will last longer than the main story with Xykon and Redcloak.

From that, I draw the conclusion that his story will be wrapped up here.

Carrying that a step further, I think that whatever he decides to do next will cause him to die. Either Big Guy will eat him, or Ian Starshine will show up and knife him, or he'll tick off Miron and Laurin enough in some way that they kill him and depart the field.

All of this is meta, storytelling-based stuff, of course. But really, Tarquin needs a resolution here and now so the story can continue cleanly. And in this case, I think "resolution" means "death."

I think Sabine will probably have a hand in his demise (maybe even joining forces with the Order to avenge Nale : hear what she says to V ?) : that's to say, it will not happen until she comes back to the Prime.

[Alignment]

With strip 924 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0924.html), it's becoming more and more plausible that this arc will conclude with Tarquin and his empire somehow defeated.

[Fish]

I concur, if for no other reason than 1 of Tarquin's key players is ash, and 1/2 of his team is right here instead of minding the store. Nale already set in motion an invitation to warrior chick to attack Tarquin. Is that happening now while Tarquin piddles away his resources here on an ego trip?

[konradknox]

Number crunching is fun.

Let's consider Tarquin's archers. The limiting factor for them is most likely 'ammunition'. Let's guess, wildly, that they carry 60 rounds each.

Statistically, that means that by the end of the battle, each archer will get an average of 3 hits. Let's be kind to the Order, and say that the massed ranks of melee soldiers surrounding them now provide "partial cover" - in that case, it's only 2.4 hits per archer. And let's assume they're light crossbows, so that's an average of 4.5 damage per hit, excluding crits for the moment. So we're looking at (4.5 x 2.4 =) 10.8 damage per archer, over the course of the battle.

Let's assume Tarquin has 60 archers (reasonable lower bound estimate, based on the last frame of 916 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0916.html)). Then the Order is looking at 648 damage from archers. Shared between 4 PCs plus Spikey, that's just under 130 points each.

Durkon and Spikey can shrug it off, no worries for them - every shot that hits them is basically wasted. V has Stoneskin, that's 150 points of damage resistance - just enough. Belkar only gets 100 points from Prot from Arrows, so he could be in trouble unless he gets back to hiding under that dinosaur.

But what about Roy? How many hit points does he have? Could be a close run thing for him. OK, potions should see him through - this time. But at best, he'll be considerably weakened.

And that's just counting archers, and making pretty generous assumptions all the way. If they're using heavy crossbows, or if there are more of them, or if you factor in crits, or if a melee mook or dinosaur occasionally gets close enough to take a swing - the picture gets steadily grimmer.

And that's why I think their only realistic prospects of survival are (a) Tarquin changes his mind, or (b) they escape into the Rift.


But! The PCs usually start action first in the round due to having higher initiative. Haley can shoot, casters can cast, thus diminish the archer numbers.

[Traab]

I concur, if for no other reason than 1 of Tarquin's key players is ash, and 1/2 of his team is right here instead of minding the store. Nale already set in motion an invitation to warrior chick to attack Tarquin. Is that happening now while Tarquin piddles away his resources here on an ego trip?

Thats a good point. One member of the team is dead, half his army is destroyed, and now he and 2 of his group are about to attack a wearied OotS. Even if in the end tarquin "wins" chances are very good he has over extended himself to do it and will be in for a rude surprise back at his home base.

[Koo Rehtorb]

I think it has been well established that the Order cannot beat those three in an ordinary fight.

If TT loses it will be from a surprise twist.

[Traab]

I think it has been well established that the Order cannot beat those three in an ordinary fight.

If TT loses it will be from a surprise twist.

I would agree that right now they couldnt win a direct fight, but even so, I dont think it will be a full on curb stomp, and it may be expensive enough of a victory to cause tarq plenty of problems. Hell, this whole scenario has already cost him his son, his vamp cleric, a rather large portion of his military, and he seems to have lost a bit of respect from his remaining party members as well. No matter what the outcome, he has lost.