(3.5) Buffing classes.

[Illven]

So I'm taking the leadership feat, and would like a non-bard buffing class. Unsure of the Marshal, I was hoping for suggestions.

[Waker]

Non-Bard Buffer? You could go Crusader/Warblade with an emphasis on White Raven. Sorcerer/Wizard into War Weaver is quite nice. Cleric is always handy.
Did you have any specific preference?

[Illven]

Non-Bard Buffer? You could go Crusader/Warblade with an emphasis on White Raven. Sorcerer/Wizard into War Weaver is quite nice. Cleric is always handy.
Did you have any specific preference?

Just can't be bard. Dm ruled that two different bards can't stack different song buffs.

[Waker]

Fair enough. How about playing a Crusader with a lot of White Raven and Devoted Spirit maneuvers? Your WR moves let your allies take extra actions or gain bonuses, while DS heals them at the same time you hit the enemy? The class is also somewhat Charisma-focused so you would gain extra benefit for Leadership.

[Forrestfire]

Dragon Shaman is also fun for buffing, as is straight-class wizard.

[DMVerdandi]

Wiz/sorc//war weaver was suggested.

Instead, switching that with the spellcaster from the SRD is probably even better. Since the best buffs are divine spells, and the spellcaster can cast cleric and druid spells as arcane, then that just kicks butt.

Throwing those awesome buffs into a weave is just fantastic.

[Illven]

Fair enough. How about playing a Crusader with a lot of White Raven and Devoted Spirit maneuvers? Your WR moves let your allies take extra actions or gain bonuses, while DS heals them at the same time you hit the enemy? The class is also somewhat Charisma-focused so you would gain extra benefit for Leadership.

No my character is a bard. This is for my cohort. Sorry for not being clear :smallredface:


Dragon Shaman is also fun for buffing, as is straight-class wizard.

Wizard does do everything :smalltongue:


Wiz/sorc//war weaver was suggested.

Instead, switching that with the spellcaster from the SRD is probably even better. Since the best buffs are divine spells, and the spellcaster can cast cleric and druid spells as arcane, then that just kicks butt.

Throwing those awesome buffs into a weave is just fantastic.

What book is the Warweaver in?

[eggynack]

What book is the Warweaver in?
Heroes of Battle, page 112.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Just can't be bard. Dm ruled that two different bards can't stack different song buffs.

Well multiple instances of Inspire Courage will each grant a Morale bonus, and bonuses of the same type don't stack. However, if one Bard has Dragonfire Inspiration and the other one doesn't, then one is inspiring for +X to attack and damage rolls and the other is inspiring for +Xd6 fire damage to every weapon attack. A single Bard can easily keep both of those effects active at once for most of an encounter.

I'd go with a dedicated debuffer using fear effects (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0) along with the standard Batman spell selection. There are actually Bard variants that trade party-buffing songs with opponent-debuffing songs. Make him a Desert Half-Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs), use the Half-Humans variant on page 150 of Races of Destiny to be a Humanoid (Human) instead of Humanoid (Orc), thus qualifying for human-only feats rather than orc-only feats (but still qualifying for Half-Orc-only feats).

Go Savage Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) 8/ Nightmare Spinner 1/ Dread Witch 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Nightmare Spinner 4/ Dread Witch 4, taking the first level of each prestige class as early as possible. Trade Inspire Courage for Inspire Awe from Dragon Magic, trade Bardic Knowledge for Bardic Knack in PH2, replace Countersong with Spellbreaker Song from CM, swap your Hypnotize song for Healing Hymn in CC, and replace your Suggestion song with Haunting Melody per ECS. Every prestige class level after Sublime Chord should advance your Sublime Chord casting, of course.

Give him two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (Bravado and City Slicker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30)) for two extra feats, plus the Abrasive trait (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#abrasive) and the Unnatural Aura trait from Dragon 356, described in the Fear Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0). His feats should be Dreadful Wrath (PGtF), Melodic Casting (CM), Nymph's Kiss (BoED, only if you and him are both good/exalted), Fell Frighten Spell (LM), and Imperious Command (DotU). Say he visited the Otyugh Hole in CS to get Menacing Demeanor for 3,000 gp without spending a feat on it. Consider moving Fell Frighten Spell to a later level to give him Ancestral Relic to do this trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4) if he's good aligned.

Get max ranks in Intimidate, Perform, and Use Magic Device, plus all his prerequisites, and get the Never Outnumbered skill trick in CS. He'll need to put three cross-class ranks into Intimidate with his first four Bard levels, then get his 5th level in Dread Witch and put all his skill points for that level into Intimidate, and then spend as many skill points as it takes each level after that to have max class-skill ranks to get Imperious Command and keep his skill check up. His items should include armor with the Fearsome property (DotU).

[Waker]

What book is the Warweaver in?
Heroes of Battle. It's a PrC that specializes in buffing. You can increase the number of targets a buff affects, increase the range and precast/trigger several buffs at once.

If this is for the Cohort, I'd say go with a Sorcerer/War Weaver. Give him a few popular buffs and then let him go to town on making everyone else into unstoppable juggernauts.

[Illven]

Heroes of Battle, page 112.

Thanks. :smallsmile:


Well multiple instances of Inspire Courage will each grant a Morale bonus, and bonuses of the same type don't stack. However, if one Bard has Dragonfire Inspiration and the other one doesn't, then one is inspiring for +X to attack and damage rolls and the other is inspiring for +Xd6 fire damage to every weapon attack. A single Bard can easily keep both of those effects active at once for most of an encounter.

I'd go with a dedicated debuffer using fear effects (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0) along with the standard Batman spell selection. There are actually Bard variants that trade party-buffing songs with opponent-debuffing songs. Make him a Desert Half-Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs), use the Half-Humans variant on page 150 of Races of Destiny to be a Humanoid (Human) instead of Humanoid (Orc), thus qualifying for human-only feats rather than orc-only feats (but still qualifying for Half-Orc-only feats).

Go Savage Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) 8/ Nightmare Spinner 1/ Dread Witch 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Nightmare Spinner 4/ Dread Witch 4, taking the first level of each prestige class as early as possible. Trade Inspire Courage for Inspire Awe from Dragon Magic, trade Bardic Knowledge for Bardic Knack in PH2, replace Countersong with Spellbreaker Song from CM, swap your Hypnotize song for Healing Hymn in CC, and replace your Suggestion song with Haunting Melody per ECS. Every prestige class level after Sublime Chord should advance your Sublime Chord casting, of course.

Give him two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (Bravado and City Slicker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30)) for two extra feats, plus the Abrasive trait (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#abrasive) and the Unnatural Aura trait from Dragon 356, described in the Fear Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0). His feats should be Dreadful Wrath (PGtF), Melodic Casting (CM), Nymph's Kiss (BoED, only if you and him are both good/exalted), Fell Frighten Spell (LM), and Imperious Command (DotU). Say he visited the Otyugh Hole in CS to get Menacing Demeanor for 3,000 gp without spending a feat on it. Consider moving Fell Frighten Spell to a later level to give him Ancestral Relic to do this trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4) if he's good aligned.

Get max ranks in Intimidate, Perform, and Use Magic Device, plus all his prerequisites, and get the Never Outnumbered skill trick in CS. He'll need to put three cross-class ranks into Intimidate with his first four Bard levels, then get his 5th level in Dread Witch and put all his skill points for that level into Intimidate, and then spend as many skill points as it takes each level after that to have max class-skill ranks to get Imperious Command and keep his skill check up. His items should include armor with the Fearsome property (DotU).

Hmm. I'll see what the group thinks about Fear effects


Heroes of Battle. It's a PrC that specializes in buffing. You can increase the number of targets a buff affects, increase the range and precast/trigger several buffs at once.

If this is for the Cohort, I'd say go with a Sorcerer/War Weaver. Give him a few popular buffs and then let him go to town on making everyone else into unstoppable juggernauts.

Seems like a good option so far.

[Diovid]

Spellscale or Silverbrow Human (Dragon Magic) Marshal with the Draconic Aura and Double Draconic Aura feats (Dragon Magic) and with the following items: Rearguard's Cape (Magic Item Compendium), Regalia of the Hero (Magic Item Compendium) and a shield with the Inspiration (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070618a&page=4) property (Eberron: Forge of War).

No, it's not strong, at all, but I guess it's an option.