Making A Fighter (That Hopefully Doesn't Suck)

[Evandar]

Hey, first thread here, I hope I've got the right place for this. Wall of text, sort of, warning.

So I've been invited to an online game of 3.5e for the first time in ages. We're starting at level 1 and I have no idea at what point we're ending. I am absolutely determined to play a Lawful Evil Fighter. I am normally the DM for my regular group, so I'm hoping I know enough about the nightmare of being DM to play an Evil character in a Good campaign without ruining everything.

Now, going to be straight up, I am really heavily inspired by Roy/Tarquin. I'm set on playing an interesting character despite being a Fighter (ala Roy) and in being able to fill out some diverse battlefield roles (as Tarquin has, using a greataxe/sword/pun battling. I'm determined to play a Fighter in heavy armor with a wide, wide range of weapon proficiencies and tricks in combat to make things interesting. My original plan was to mess around with a spiked chain, tower shields and caltrops.

DISCLAIMER: I feel guilty just thinking about Spiked Chain AoO abuse, please don't hold it against me.

The problem is that build needed Combat Expertise (for stuff like Improved Trip), and the stats I rolled don't give me enough leeway to grab the 13+ Int prerequisite. I'm not sure what I should be doing with my Fighter right now, and could really use some thoughts on interesting ways to build him.

Basically, what I'm looking for is:

1) Just being a heavily armored badass. It's probably not optimal at all, but I'm set on this.

2) The capacity to fulfill a wide range of melee roles (even if it means I'll be worse than the average fighter overall).

3) I want to screw around with mechanics people don't normally use.

4) God damn it, I'm going to kill some people with a warhorse along the line, although I suppose all I need for that is Spirited Charge.

The stuff in Races of Stone seems really interesting (Battle Plate in particular, Mountain Plate seems too extreme in terms of limiting mobility). Axespike (a feat that lets me make extra attacks with armor spikes and a greataxe) seemed really cool (if ineffective) too.

I'm playing a human, which means I'm starting up with like, three feats. At the least I think this campaign is going to hit fifth level, so that's the extent to which I'm thinking about the gear I'm aiming for.

My stats are:

Strength: 17 (Evandar smash)
Dexterity: 11
Constitution: 16 (Evandar tank)
Intelligence: 11 (RIP Combat Expertise -- I'd trade this for constitution but I have no use for a +3 int modifier)
Wisdom: 9
Charisma: 11

I'd really appreciate it if people could even point me in the vague direction of an idea/set of feats/books/other builds I can take a look at. I was expecting there to be a ton of threads on making heavily armored characters, if only for the flavor, but Google has availed me not.

At the veeeeery least, I want to be able to get stuck into melee with a cool (preferably giant) weapon, work a tower shield (so I'd use a one-handed weapon as a backup at times) and charge people down with a lance.

Thanks in advance,
Sir Nik

PS: If this is thoroughly unfeasible, really silly or Fighters killed your family, just give it to me straight and I'll grab a Greataxe, then cry myself to a generic sleep.

[Kane0]

Will you be allowed homebrew?
If so, check the CCCC in my sig for a bunch that may catch your eye.

If not, unfortunately you may have to pick out one or two things and focus on them so you can be sure you can do them well.

[FrznTear]

Unless you intend to go for a full mounted build I'd shy away from spirited charge as it requires mounted combat and ride-by-attack as well. Besides, Wielding a Lance 2H on a charging mount still is giving you 2d8+str*3 which will be +12 once you hit four and boost your str.

Since tripping isn't an option and you want to have combat options try looking into what you can do with bull-rushing. Dungeon-crasher builds are fun.

To fulfill the fantasy of wielding a big weapon get Strongarm Bracers(MIC pg139, 6000gp) so that you can wield a large greataxe bumping you up from 1d12 to 3d6, a significant increase in damage.

If you slap the +2 enchantment Animated (DMG pg218) you won't have to bother with a backup 1h weapon.

Oh, you can get improved trip still if you take two levels of Barbarian with the Wolf Totem ACF (UA pg49)

[eggynack]

Your fighter looks like a solid candidate for both of the major fighter ACF's. The first is dungeon crasher, from Dungeonscape, which allows you to bullrush folks into walls. That seems to fit your burly and relatively unintelligent fighter stylings. The second is zhentarim soldier, from the Champions of Valor web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) (Specifically the download now linkamajig). It gives you some intimidation shenanigans, and as an evil fighter you trade absolutely nothing away for the benefits it gives you. Together, those might get you closer to the armored badass goal you're seeking.

[Evandar]

Really pleased with the super fast (and great) reply. I'm not sure if we're going to be allowed to homebrew, but the fix by wayfare is spectacular. The one by Grod (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276280) also might be exactly what I was looking for. I won't be using every ability at the same time, but it means I can fight mounted/on foot/with a giant shield as the situation demands it, while rocking heavy armor the whole time.

I'll talk to my DM about allowing homebrew. The only time I've ever ran a campaign with homebrew, I used this dude (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Marksman_(3.5e_Class)) and it was so broken that I can't blame my DM if he turns me down.

Thanks a ton, man. :smallbiggrin:

(So many replies while I was writing this one. You guys are incredibly sexy.)

I'm not sure about the Bracers, Frzn, because the image is just so comical in my head, but the advice on the mounted combat was really solid. Huge load off my mind as well - that's a bunch of feats I can scratch off my bucket list without ruining what I had in mind.

I'm also flipping through the alternative class thingos Eggy mentioned. The Zhentarim seems fantastic. Conversation skills on my fighter? Ugh, yes please. Plowing through my enemies and crunching their bones into a fine powder with a suit of fullplate? Ugh, yes please.

It would appear that what I had in mind isn't that unattainable at all.

So I can drop the the mounted feats I wanted to pick up and I won't need Combat Expertise to exercise the battlefield control I had in mind.

My first level feat selection right now is going to be:

Power Attack.
Improved Bull Rush.
???

I guess the last thing on the table would be what type of armor to gun for (Races of Stone seemed super awesome, though the Axespike option seems a little pointless now) and what melee weapon to roll with. Do you guys think generic greatsword is the way to go? I don't mind burning a feat for something exotic. Flavor (tasteful, hopefully) is really the main thing here, because if I wanted pure efficiency I'd go with aforementioned greatsword and 2d6 my way to victory. My general build past this point will just focus on making my armor usage better, hopefully going for Interlocking Scale, and hitting things harder unless someone thinks of something incredibly cool.

[Big Fau]

If you don't have the Int for Combat Expertise you have a few other options, but outside of those your choices are really limited. Your Dex is also fairly low, so the standard Tripper builds are going to be really rough on you (since they like taking AoOs):


Zhentarim Fighter, and pump your Intimidate checks to the point that they are nigh unto irresistible. Your Con score can make up for your mediocre Charisma (via Shape Soulmeld), but you may need to get a Cloak of Charisma +2 ASAP for some feats. Also this is setting-specific. Needs a web expansion and a whole slew of books.
Dungeoncrasher, as mentioned. Probably the best option outside of a Chain Tripper. Needs Dungeonscape
Aim for the Jaunter PrC, from Expedition to Demonweb Pits. It's a short PrC, but damn is it useful. And if you do, finish the build with Bounding Assault/Rapid Blitz, take a few levels in Scout, and skirmish your head off.
Gun for Suel Arcanamach+Abjurant Champion, although you will need to pump Cha even more than the Zhentarim Fighter ACF. Fighter 6/Suel 3/Abjurant Champion 5/X 6 is an excellent build, and you can even combine it with Dungeoncrasher for extra options. Also, you can finish the build off with Warshaper or Master Transmogrifist (the former being stronger, but the latter being less likely to get books thrown at you). Books needed: CArc, CM.
Get the Dragonmark of Shadows, spend as many feats as you can on improving it (the Darkness SLA feats from DotU, the various feats from Dragonmarked), then take levels in Shadow Hunter (Dragonmarked). Your party will hate you if they can't see through a Darkness spell, but you will be damn good at what you do. Requires Eberron material.
As the previous option, but with the Mark of Sentinel and Deneith Warden PrC instead. You can also try combining this with the Zhentarim Fighter ACF for Intimidate shenanigans (DW gives an ability that shakens enemies you hit for nonlethal damage, which stacks with other fear effects for hilarous fun). Again, requires Eberron (possibly FR stuff too).
As the above 2, but for the Mark of Passage and Blade of Orien PrC. TELEPORT EVERYWHERE. Mix in Jaunter for more fun! Yet again, Eberron-specific.
As the last three, but for the Mark of Storms and the Storm Sentry PrC. Not exactly the best option, but the support for the Mark of Storms makes it OK (the PrC's features are kinda underwhelming, but the Mark itself can be EPIC). One more time, requires Eberron books.
Dip Totemist, and focus on natural attacks. Requires many sources, Magic of Incarnum amongst them.
Dip Paladin 4 and take a couple of Devotion feats (Animal/Travel are highly recommended due to Flight and free movement). Requires CC, may also require Unearthed Arcana for the Paladin variants.
Divine Crusader into Sovereign Speaker, and pretend you are a Cleric (possibly finishing it up with Prestige Paladin, for more spells). Last time, Eberron-specific (Faiths of Eberron this time). Also needs CD and possibly Unearthed Arcana. And your low Cha/Wis may be a problem.


You'll notice most of these require you to become some kind of spellcaster. The best bets, IMO, are the Totemist dip, the Dragonmarks, or the Dungeoncrasher.

[Xaragos]

My personal favorites for fighters:

Dungeoncrasher Variant

Knockback (I know you are human but Goliath would be awesome for this)
Shocktrooper
Leap Attack
Improved Grapple
Improved Unarmed Strike
Toughness

Special mention to Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Improved Disarm though your character's int is too low :(

There are a couple of other options for /fighter/ type characters you could throw in there for flavor. Give the book Tome of Battle a look over.

[Evandar]

To Fau:

I am pretty sure I'll be going Dungeoncrasher/Zhentarim. I'll be able to keep a relatively high intimidate score going, so that's pretty hardcore. I like that the Zhentarim gets diplomacy/bluff quite a bit, although I'll never have them very high since Fighter doesn't get them. I'm also pretty starved for skill points (How did Roy afford Knowledge (Architecture)?) but being a human helps. I'll probably be going Ride (to charge things), Intimidate (to terrify things) and... something that doesn't suffer from an armor check penalty, I'll work it out.

The Goliath Greathammer looks like a glorious melee weapon, but I might rock a Scythe for the imagery it inspires.

Coincidentally, the knowledge you possess of non-core material terrifies me on some level. Unfortunately stuff like the Scout dip won't work because of the armor restrictions. The Deneith Warden seems very cool, although I didn't have a lawman in mind. (I might do it anyway though, it might be interesting. I could be Bad Cop.)

To Xaragos:

That actually looks amazingly fun. I would go Goliath but playing anything with a LA makes me feel like a munchkin. :smallfrown: It is seriously, seriously tempting though. I think they get Powerful Build which would just... be fantastic.

The +4 to Strength would leave me with a + 5 modifier, so my Bull Rushes would be +5 from Strength, +4 from Improved Bull Rush and another +4 from Powerful Build.

I guess I'll talk to my DM about it.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Do you just want "heavily armored warrior," or does it have to be specifically a Fighter? Because a Wablade or Crusader will probably get you everything you ever hoped and dreamed of...

(Flattered to see that you like my fighter fix, though :smallredface:)

[Evandar]

Your fix was actually my favorite on the list! Really cool flavor to it, and it seems really balanced on paper.

I'm a strong advocate of not locking myself into a particular class just for the sake of the name, only over flavor. (I'm actually going to be calling myself a knight in the campaign, but the actual knight class kinda sucked.) I'm not really into the flavor of the Crusader abilities unfortunately. I'm actually from Malaysia (southeast Asia) and recently moved to Australia (within the last year), so anything with even the vaguest Oriental overtone makes me roll fortitude against nausea from overexposure.

Also I don't like limited uses of abilities on my melee classes. It makes me feel very video-gamey. (I feel terrible for gunning down good ideas due to pet peeves I didn't think to mention up front though. FORGIVE ME.)

I'd still give it a go if I thought Crusader gave me enough feats to be what I'm aiming for. I'll see if I can drop anything, but I'm quite taken with the idea of a Lawful Evil Human Fighter, rocking interlocking scale, a scythe, a warhorse + lance, bullrushing all who oppose him into a fine, red mist.

[OldTrees1]

Did you know that for a mere 2 levels in Barbarian and trading away Uncanny Dodge, you too can have Improved Trip without needing Combat Expertise or Int? [Wolf Totem Barbarian, see Unearthed Arcana or the SRD]

Why not pick up Pounce while you are at it?[Spirit Lion Barbarian, see Complete Champion]

[lsfreak]

I'm actually from Malaysia (southeast Asia) and recently moved to Australia (within the last year), so anything with even the vaguest Oriental overtone makes me roll fortitude against nausea from overexposure.
Select warblade fluff, Backspace. Select Fighter fluff, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-V on warblade :smallwink:


Also I don't like limited uses of abilities on my melee classes. It makes me feel very video-gamey. (I feel terrible for gunning down good ideas due to pet peeves I didn't think to mention up front though. FORGIVE ME.)
Just throwing out that basically everyone on here that's studied swordsmanship has said that not being able to use the same maneuver twice in a row fits reality. You can't execute the same move twice in a row, because after executing it you'll be in the wrong position to do it again. You have to "reset" yourself back to a different position. (For the warblade, at least, the others don't fit nearly as well).

Just to play devil's advocate.

[Big Fau]

Just throwing out that basically everyone on here that's studied swordsmanship has said that not being able to use the same maneuver twice in a row fits reality. You can't execute the same move twice in a row, because after executing it you'll be in the wrong position to do it again. You have to "reset" yourself back to a different position. (For the warblade, at least, the others don't fit nearly as well).

Just to play devil's advocate.

Hell, it doesn't even work in fighting games. Barring stupidity like the Smash Bors. Paper Fan of DOOM (which players and AI alike have a very hard time getting out of), reusing the same attack tends to get predictable fast.

[Urpriest]

Here's the thing: while in general your build would benefit from Fighter levels due to the number of feats it needs, you can't go all the way with Fighter. That's because one of your desired goals, "master of many exotic weapons", is not something Fighters are capable of.

You absolutely need a class feature that gives you proficiency in all exotic weapons, which means at least a dip in something non-Fighter. A single level of Warblade and the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat would let you switch to proficiency in any new weapon you pick up after spending some time practicing with it. If you want to use more than one Exotic Weapon Proficiency in the same combat you'll need actual proficiency in all Exotic Weapons, like Haberdash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633) gets from Master of Masks.

[Evandar]

Ahhh, you guys have talked me into it.

Warblade does seem really amazing and Weapon Aptitude sealed the deal. I hadn't thought of applying it to weapon proficiency. Thanks, Urpriest!

Something I'm not too sure about is how ACFs work when I multiclass. Let's say I go Goliath for the Dungeoncrashing goodness.

At Fighter level 1, I grab Power Attack/Improved Bullrush/Skill Focus(Dance Move -- or a weapon proficiency).

At Fighter level 2, I grab Dungeoncrasher.

That's the point where I imagine I should go Warblade. (fighter level 3 is dumb level, evandar not take) On the other hand, Dungeoncrasher seems to get an upgrade around the 8th (?) level or something. That seems to indicate I'd need to continue on with my Fighter levels at least until that point.

I'm pretty close to coming to a decision here, though. Freak playing Devil's Advocate helped a bit there. I'm a sabreur and can imagine the swift action needed to refresh maneuvers is just going back to the guard position. A Goliath Fighter/Dungeoncrasher/Warblade feels really gimmicky but also feels right. If Dungeoncrasher doesn't work with Warblade because I need to pour on the Fighter levels, I guess I'll have to choose between Fighter and Warblade.

I must now go spend six hours on trains, ferrying my sibling around Melbourne, hoping not to roll random encounters. I'll check in again some time tonight. Peace out, guys.

[Urpriest]

You need six levels of Fighter to get the max benefit from Dungeoncrasher. Fighter 6/Warblade X is a fine build. Fighter 2/Warblade X is as well though. In general you want at least two levels of something before your Warblade levels so that you can get a 3rd level stance at Warblade 4. More is fine, though I wouldn't do more than 6.

[Xaragos]

You need six levels of Fighter to get the max benefit from Dungeoncrasher. Fighter 6/Warblade X is a fine build. Fighter 2/Warblade X is as well though. In general you want at least two levels of something before your Warblade levels so that you can get a 3rd level stance at Warblade 4. More is fine, though I wouldn't do more than 6.

I agree with Urpriest here. Fighter 6 for max benefit and then dip into Warblade.

Feats: Power attack, Improved Bullrush, Knockback, Shocktrooper, Leap Attack.

Dump a good amount of points into your Jump Skill and maybe even climb for some of the interesting Skill Tricks if you are allowed to use those.

Here are the synergies that are very good with Goliath's. Powerful build....that lets you not only use a weapon that is large...but you are counted as large whenever the situation would be advantageous to you. That means you get a size bonus of +4 large on top of the other goodness your feat training does.

Also you can perform a running jump from a standing position...so all of those points you are dumping into jump allow you to navigate difficult terrain because you jump over it and layeth the smackdown as if you charged (Leap Attack) doing increased damage!

Now of course you will be power attacking with this ...even a PA of 1 will suffice...because then you can execute Knockback, adding your damage roll to your free bull rush attempt roll (dmg + str roll + 4 imp bull rush + 4 large size)

But that's not all....enter Shocktrooper with its three variations. You can now Knockback said character in any direction(Directed bull rush)! You can knock him into another enemy to gain a free trip attack on both(Domino Rush) that they can't trip you back...ala bowling ball hitting pins, or you can angle your blow so it hits into a wall or something solid triggering your Dungeoncrasher damage! Uber big bad fighting on ramparts or next to a cliff...BAMMO off the cliff to their doom (unless they can fly of course) Oh hey and by the way you can also use (heedless charge) to lower AC instead of your attack bonus if you dont care about getting hit and really want to make sure you layeth the smackdown.

Now add into this the use of a reach weapon and somehow gaining the pounce ability (Lion totem barbarian) and you can basically leap into the middle of the enemy and knock them senseless about the area. This combo allows the Fighter to do some solid damage and adds in some battlefield control.

[Evandar]

It would unfortunately appear that being anything with LA is off the table, so I won't have Powerful Build. Still, I am pretty happy with how Fighter 6/Warblade X sounds, especially with all the little tweaks like Pounce and Shocktrooper. Losing out on Large size was a pretty big hit but I'm sure I'll find way around it.


Thanks a lot for the help guys. The community here is incredibly helpful and nice. :smallsmile:

[Xaragos]

It would unfortunately appear that being anything with LA is off the table, so I won't have Powerful Build. Still, I am pretty happy with how Fighter 6/Warblade X sounds, especially with all the little tweaks like Pounce and Shocktrooper. Losing out on Large size was a pretty big hit but I'm sure I'll find way around it.


Thanks a lot for the help guys. The community here is incredibly helpful and nice. :smallsmile:

Ok one possible way around this depending on your DM's interpretation. Take the Jotunbrud racial feat at level 1. It is a regional only feat that gives you almost exactly the same thing as powerful build. I mean the verbiage almost is mirror imaged between the two. I have had a character ask me before if he could use this to qualify for Knockback and I let him have it. If you are burning a feat for something like that and it reads almost completely the same, I was like why not. Nothing game breaking and the player had fun.

Another suggestion to add to the build: Strongarm Bracers (MIC) that cost 6000 gp if I remember correctly

Edit: Are there any LA+0 Large races out there that might help him out if for some reason the DM doesn't allow Jotunbrud to satisfy the pre-req?

[OldTrees1]

Edit: Are there any LA+0 Large races out there that might help him out if for some reason the DM doesn't allow Jotunbrud to satisfy the pre-req?

I have searched and did not find one. In addition I found a section in Savage Species that says that Large Size itself is worth +1 LA.

Half Minotaur and Half Ogre are +1LA templates in Dragon Magazine that increase size from Small/Medium to Medium/Large. If large size is truly needed then you could ask about a +1LA template based off those and adjusted(nerfed) to the DM's tastes.

[Curmudgeon]

Do you have to use rolled stats? Point buy is more predictable and (I think) fairer.

[Evandar]

We're definitely using the rolled stats, unfortunately. I was already allowed to reroll a 7 I had (to the 9 in Wisdom I have right now). I would definitely prefer point buy. Our party ranger lucked out and has glorious stats. Nothing below a +2 modifier.

I've had a pretty thorough look around for a large race without LA, and it would appear OldTrees is right -- being Large instantly gives you at least +1 LA. Jotunbrud is going to be my best bet. I had discounted it earlier because it didn't let me increase my weapon size, but my build wasn't based off bullrushing back then either. I'll report back as soon as I hear from him, if only so you guys know all your help has been put to use.

[Urpriest]

Dungeoncrasher is cool, but using it reliably in combat generally requires exploiting Knockback, which in turn requires being either Large or a Goliath (Jotunbrud, absent special DM permission, won't cut it). Without that, it's not bonus damage on your attacks so much as damage when you pursue battlefield control rather than damage...which is still worthwhile, just not straightforwardly additive.

[Evandar]

Even if I can't get Knockback, I'll probably end up sticking with the general theme just because it really fits what I had in mind. I won't quite be smacking everything around with impunity, but I'll hopefully still crack some skulls.

[Immabozo]

I apologize if I repeat a few things, didn't read a;; the replies.

The best fighter, will not be pure "fighter" class.

Dip Barbarian for whirling and Spirit Lion Totem ACFs. Gives you pounce instead of fast movement, also gives you another attack and changes your rage.

You could go reach, then you might wanna take Willing Deformity (tall) and maybe Aberrant reach, although maybe not the latter as both are +5 reach, but both have a pre-req. Bear Warrior (CWar, try to rules lawyer you DM into not making you change into a bear when you rage, the class says you can turn into a bear and you do get the stats during rage, but the two are not explicitly connected) Bear Warrior will qualify you for Warshaper (CWar) for immunity to crits, +4 con and str and +5' reach. Then get a spiked chain, plus a something or other belt from MIC that enlarges you and enjoy 40' reach. With knockback and combat reflexes, you will control things!

Another way you could go (and mixing the two is viable) War Hulk (Book of Miniatures) at level 4 hits 3 squares with each attack. Add on knockback, power attack and shock trooper, you will be having HUGE bonuses to your knockback, with shock trooper, guiding them off cliffs, into eacother and into walls for trips, more damage if you have Dungeoncrasher, and you should never care about your AC, cause you have reach on about 99% of the things you will ever fight and Combat Reflexes, each AoO should push them away.

Combat Brute would also work wonders on that build. Getting +1 to hit and damage against them next round, but War Hulk says you roll just one attack roll and apply it to each hit. So if that one has buddies, all his buddies are subject to that same +1 per 5' he was bullrushed back!

[Auramis]

There are a couple of other options for /fighter/ type characters you could throw in there for flavor. Give the book Tome of Battle a look over.

Despite how long it's been out, I'm just getting into this book, and I think it's bloody amazing. Lot of great options for fighter classes in here.

[Pickford]

Your fighter looks like a solid candidate for both of the major fighter ACF's. The first is dungeon crasher, from Dungeonscape, which allows you to bullrush folks into walls. That seems to fit your burly and relatively unintelligent fighter stylings. The second is zhentarim soldier, from the Champions of Valor web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) (Specifically the download now linkamajig). It gives you some intimidation shenanigans, and as an evil fighter you trade absolutely nothing away for the benefits it gives you. Together, those might get you closer to the armored badass goal you're seeking.

(It also, as the name implies, requires you to be a member of the Zhentarim...so there's that)

[OldTrees1]

We're definitely using the rolled stats, unfortunately. I was already allowed to reroll a 7 I had (to the 9 in Wisdom I have right now). I would definitely prefer point buy. Our party ranger lucked out and has glorious stats. Nothing below a +2 modifier.

I've had a pretty thorough look around for a large race without LA, and it would appear OldTrees is right -- being Large instantly gives you at least +1 LA. Jotunbrud is going to be my best bet. I had discounted it earlier because it didn't let me increase my weapon size, but my build wasn't based off bullrushing back then either. I'll report back as soon as I hear from him, if only so you guys know all your help has been put to use.

If Jotunbrund does not count:
I would ask your DM if you could start as a Large character (ECL 2) and owe an xp debt of say 2000xp so that you would be allowed in a party starting at first level. The 2000xp debt means that while you start at ECL 2 everyone else will reach ECL 3 before you.
If that doesn't work then ask if you could play a temporary character until the party was high enough level and/or play a medium sized character that you and the DM would conspire to be changed into large size (for a +1LA).
If none of those work then accept the DMs decision and thank them for considering your request.


PS: Since I am not sure if you saw it I would like to repeat that you can still get Improved Trip despite your low Int.(Via 2 levels of Barbarian)

[Urpriest]

(It also, as the name implies, requires you to be a member of the Zhentarim...so there's that)

If you're in FR, yeah. Otherwise, you'd need to be a member of whatever organization is equivalent in your setting...and if your character is basically Tarquin, then chances are the Zhentarim-equivalent is under your command.

[Person_Man]

Couple of observations:

1) Most melee builds need a source a bonus damage. Fighter 6 gets it from Dungeoncrasher. Warblade gets it from maneuvers. Anything Full BAB 6 can get it from optimizing Power Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7165087). But once you've settled on a source of bonus damage, you can move on to some other combo. You don't need or want to put all of your eggs into one basket.

2) Once you've figured out number 1, other combos (fear, exotic weapons, Trip, Grapple, Bull Rush, status effects) more or less boil down to battlefield control - denying your enemy their movement and/or actions. Choose whichever options are the most fun for you, but try and make sure that they have synergy with your other abiliteis. In most cases, you'll want to be able to kill whoever is within your reach, inflict a status effect on that rare boss enemy who can't be killed in one round, prevent other enemies from counter attacking you somehow, then move or charge and kill everyone within your reach again. You can do this a lot of different ways, just be mindful of it.

[Snowbluff]

Select warblade fluff, Backspace. Select Fighter fluff, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-V on warblade :smallwink:


Hahaha! Copy that, Freak. :smalltongue:

[Xaragos]

Hey Evander, what did you end up going with and how is it working for you so far?

[Evandar]

I wanted to bring it up but I wasn't sure if bumping the thread over it was good etiquette. :smalltongue:

So far I'm a glorious, glorious first level fighter. I will now launch into the campaign in quite some detail because it beats writing this psychology assignment.

Enter the town of Weyland! We're playing with a total of four characters. Our DM has put a lot of work into the map and the background of the world. Unfortunately he opens with a straight twenty minutes of talking, so it was a slow start. The party was then asked which part of the city their character was in, and he went to painstaking efforts to describe what our environs looked like.

I just picked the tavern (because at a guess, that's where the plot was) and he really needed some help in speeding things along. After about half an hour of random conversations, the party was no longer split (huzzah) and we undertook a mighty quest to slay the rats in the basement.

The entire party took 5d10 damage, typed Generic.

Despite this, the party (a warblade, a ranger, a druid AND THEIR GLORIOUS KNIGHT-CAPTAIN, LORD NEVREN) displayed really strong dedication to roleplaying, we all did our part to keep the story flowing and we swaggered off into the basement.

We hear skittering in the shadows. Our Warblade, who had a confusing name (Kazihuhuh? Kasememem?) decided to light his expensive bullseye lantern.


DIRE RATS. DIRE RATS EVERYWHERE.

Being the bastion of impeccable good looks, cunning, combat expertise and astounding weapon expertise that I am, I immediately roll lowest on initiative.

The rats move in. They have terrible movement speed. The druid's wolf companion slays one with great fury.

My turn! CHARGING BASTARD SWORD POWER ATTACK! (I can change my proficiency later via Warblade Weapon Aptitude, but I picked bastard sword so I had good damage with my tower shield for now.)

I rolled a five. Well, whatever.

More rats pour out of the shadows. This is looking silly. I miss more attacks. More rats miss me. The party behind me is huddling up while the Warblade cuts everything to pieces.

After missing my third attack in a row, I just start bull rushing all the rats past our front line to provoke AoOs. More rats pour of the shadows.

At this point I figure, well, I'm not hitting anything. I drop the shield as part of an attack. I miss. The rats miss my now 14 AC by a miracle. (I'm flanked.) The rats around me are killed.

I now go for a charging two-handed power attack with the bastard sword.

I roll a 4.

I weep bitter tears.

The ranger contracted filth fever. The druid's wolf showed me up by killing everything immediately after I missed them. The rats are all slain. We get 300 experience.

We found a trapdoor leading into a basement. What is behind it? A lich? Zombies? More generic plot elements? Tune in next week to find out.





But yeah, it looks like Fighter 6/Warblade X and assorted selections from the feats you pointed out is what I'm going to be rolling with. The campaign doesn't seem to be built for heavily optimized characters, so pure flavor is the order of the day. (and sadly I have no way of obtaining Knockback)