Arbiter: PF Paladin alternate class (Homebrew)

[mithrawnudo]

Here is the link. I hate formatting. (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B61Hb3lypDqkSEJrWm1XSkk1bjA/edit?usp=sharing)

If anyone has any comments on it, and especially feedback, I would love it. The asterisk (*) denotes a change, italicized are simple changes, like the name or the effects from evil to chaos, while bold terms denote a new ability or more substantial change.

[mithrawnudo]

Also, I have plans to introduce this into my campaign fairly soon. I know that mechanically, Paladin aren't great, but since my group RPs as much or more than combat (we did a 4 hour sessions without any real breaks and didn't fight once, and everyone loved it, the next session was 6 hours long with 2 fights.)

[Dapple Birch]

I can't help but think that you're thinking of 3.5 when you say paladins "aren't all that great."

Also because someone somewhere will choose to be confused by it I'll point out that there's also a pathfinder prestige class called Justicar with a similar feel to what you've built here http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/justiciar

[mithrawnudo]

I can't help but think that you're thinking of 3.5 when you say paladins "aren't all that great."

I'm mostly just trying to prevent anyone from starting a flame war. I think 3.5 pallys are fine too. I love them to death. Especially PF Pallys.


Also because someone somewhere will choose to be confused by it I'll point out that there's also a pathfinder prestige class called Justicar http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/justiciar

This is when I start cursing. Being a heretic on this forum, I hate splat. I hate it. I want as close to core only as I can get. So naturally, I look through my UC, UM, APG, and found no subclasses for paladin like this, and thought 'Wow! I can make this up.'

[Craft (Cheese)]

Lawful Neutral Paladin alternate class, eh? Alright.

Some editing errors:

- "an chaotic-aligned dragon" under Smite Evil should probably be "a dragon with a Chaotic alignment" or something.

- "Lwaful Health"

Things that might not be errors but I thought were worth pointing out regardless:

- You can take archetypes with an alternate class so long as the alternate class possesses all the class features that are affected by the archetype. The Justicar has many features that are identical with Paladin features but just have a different name; By RAW, this is enough to disqualify the Justicar from taking Paladin archetypes that replace these features. If this was intentional then that's fine, but personally I'd allow for more customization.

- The Divine Bond feature feels like it has too much copy and paste left over from the Paladin feature; For example, if the Justicar abandons pursuit of good for the sake of justice, why is it a celestial spirit that bonds with her weapon? Wouldn't an inevitable-related thing of some sort make more sense? Why can you still get the Holy property applied to your weapon? Why does the mount still get the celestial template?

- The Code of Conduct just replaces the word "Evil" with "Chaos" and is otherwise mostly identical to the Paladin one: This feels wrong.

- It's curious why the Justicar casts Arcane instead of Divine spells. Also, does the Justicar's ability to ignore ASF only apply to her Justicar spells, or to any arcane spell she uses (the wording in the document applies the latter)?



Conclusion: The class would work fine in play, there aren't really any huge problems. The only conceivable balance problem might be that the justicar's spell list is quite a bit more powerful than the Paladin's (but still worse than, say, a Magus). However, I do have the complaint that the class doesn't feel distinct enough from the base Paladin aside from fluff: There's too much copy-and-paste of the Paladin's abilities, and the one truly major difference (Touch of Law) is also copy-and-pasted from the Antipaladin. If all you wanted was a minor adjustment then it works, but I feel like an alternate class should be more than that. Might I suggest taking inspiration from the Hellknight PrC (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/hellknight)?

[mithrawnudo]

Lawful Neutral Paladin alternate class, eh? Alright.

Some editing errors:

- "an chaotic-aligned dragon" under Smite Evil should probably be "a dragon with a Chaotic alignment" or something.

- "Lwaful Health"


Fixed. Thanks for that.



Things that might not be errors but I thought were worth pointing out regardless:

-snip-


I like the bond, certainly. I will change the wording on it most assuredly.

As for touch of law, I was considering bumping it up to a d8 for losing its healing abilities at all.

I'll work on the code of conduct. The link above will continue to reflect the updating nature of the work.

I have changed the wording to clear up this matter, only Arbiter spells.

Also, this is my first attempt at class creation, and I was (maybe wrongly) more worried about keeping its abilities close to already done abilities so as not unbalance the class. I'm going to work on reworking the bond.

[Dapple Birch]

It looks like you based at least the justices on the anti-paladin's cruelties. Have you looked up feedback on how balanced people feel that class to be? It's been out long enough that you ought to be able to get a better read on balance issues that we could offer on the fly here. Incidentally pathfinder calls these "alternate classes" like the ninja, samurai, and anti-paladin.

Also IMO the problem with splat is that people writing such material tend not to share the same balance concerns with the original authors. Add enough different opinions going together and you can justify just about any imbalanced nonsense you can imagine. Since what you've done here is very similar to the paladin class(and presumably won't be mixed with levels in paladin) the opportunities for cheese should be much more limited.

If it makes you feel any better you won't be the first one turning a prestige class into a regular class with virtually the same name:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/aldori-swordlord
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/aldori-swordlord-brevoy

EDIT: I didn't notice the altered spell list at first glance. Why do you have him casting arcane spells and smiting chaos? Paladin's and anti-paladins both server deific powers and thus the spell casting they gain is divine. If the justicar is casting arcane spells, where that power coming from? His blood, like a sorcerer? Years of training, like a wizard or magus? A mysterious patron not fully understood, like the witch? Or something else entirely?
Also you have the level 20 ability "holy champion" still. might want to change that in some fashion.

[mithrawnudo]

It looks like you based at least the justices on the anti-paladin's cruelties. Have you looked up feedback on how balanced people feel that class to be? It's been out long enough that you ought to be able to get a better read on balance issues that we could offer on the fly here. Incidentally pathfinder calls these "alternate classes" like the ninja, samurai, and anti-paladin.

I mostly assumed that it would be fairly on par. I suppose I trust RAW semi-core pretty well.

His powers would come from years of training. While this could cause a fluff crunch when converting from paladin, so do many other features of the game without some sort of DM handling.

I wanted to change it to differentiate it further from the paladin. I don't think the spells are unbalanced, but that is just my opinion.

Holy Champion changed.

[Dapple Birch]

So fluff-wise, what distinguishes him from, say, a lawful neutral magus? Is there an institution or order that he hails from? Do they seem themselves as closer to paladins as both being bastions of order in spite of the very different sources of power each wields?

Off topic slightly but are you running this on Golarion or a homebrewed world? Always neat to see the creative processes going into other people's campaigns. :)

[mithrawnudo]

Homebrew world.
They would be thematically closer to Paladin. While Maguses would function similarly, this would be a group of adventurers dedicated to the same ideal. And in this world, there wouldn't be a specific order of them, anymore than there is a specific order of paladins or wizards.