WHat is up with Dvati's?

[CyberThread]

Besides the odd mechanic of folks having two bodies and one soul, what exactly is going for that class, seems like TPK bait.

[Taveena]

Do you mean Dvati?

[CyberThread]

fixed ty yeppers

[Red Fel]

Besides the odd mechanic of folks having two bodies and one soul, what exactly is going for that class, seems like TPK bait.

Dvati isn't a class. It's a race.

And depending on how you use them, and what the DM allows, they can be dangerously potent.

[DarkSonic1337]

For a +1 race, they're actually really potent.

Having two bodies essentially doubles your actions (DM discretion, but that's how any DM I've asked rules it.) That's EXTREMELY powerful. They make a mention that if one of them casts spells the other does nothing...but it makes no mention of other mechanics (like Maneuvers, Powers, SLA's, Su abilities, ect). This basically means that many builds get to use their class features twice on the same round (double the skirmish, double the maneuvers, ect ect). Heck it's pretty easy to sneak attack when you can FLANK WITH YOURSELF too.

The half HP is not as bad as it sounds. You only get half HP on THE DIE ROLL, because both bodies get the benefit of your con modifier. It still stings a little, but just remember that CON is going to be your secondary stat (or even primary stat on some builds, like an Incarnum Dvati).

The extra bonuses to flanking and aid another are really nice at low levels. Their echo attack is pretty....meh.


I'm playing a Dvati TWF Swordsage in a mid OP game and having a lot of fun. My DM ruled that we share a maneuver pool (so we can't both use the same maneuvers without refreshing) but...sharing a maneuver pool means that only ONE body has to take a turn off to refresh maneuvers since they come from the same pool. I run through them twice as fast so I have to refresh more often, but overall it's really ****ing good. He also made an exception for stances (we can both be in the same stance), so that 30' radius blindsense is now on two bodies :). Scouting is also a little less dangerous when you can have one body scout ahead while the other just refreshes your shadow jaunt/blink/stride so you can teleport 150' every round.

Fun times. If I ever make a Dvati again, I'm probably gonna look into Magic of Incarnum and see what kind of stuff I can do with two bodies worth of soulmends and chakras

[CyberThread]

how does your DM rule if one of your twins dies?

[Psyren]

I would rule that anything that needs concentration - spells, psionics, SLAs, invocations etc. - would fall under the "second twin loses his actions" umbrella. Things that don't, like maneuvers or supernatural abilities, could be used freely by both twins (subject to internal cooldowns like maneuvers readied, breath weapons and vestige abilities.)

[CyberThread]

Dvanti Crusaders? Auto regen maneuvers, and both use the stances that do debuffs, if you don't attack the person using the stance.

[Psyren]

All Crusaders autoregen maneuvers, so that's not a problem. Doubling stances is okay too, because Dvati are twice as vulnerable so this gives them something to compensate. I myself would prefer it if both twins used the same stance but I don't think it's a big deal either way.

[CyberThread]

Am saying is it the "SAME" stance, or just two folks using the same stance.


If Twin A, and Twin B, use the glare stance, and I attack twin A, do I get debuffed by Twin B's Glare stance?

[Psyren]

Am saying is it the "SAME" stance, or just two folks using the same stance.


If Twin A, and Twin B, use the glare stance, and I attack twin A, do I get debuffed by Twin B's Glare stance?

I would say they don't stack, but you get two instances of the aura that you can place around the battlefield.

[Vortenger]

I don't know that Crusader can come highly recommended for Dvati as they only recover 1 maneuver per round but can burn through 1 each, if not more. Swordsage and Warblade can at least get all their maneuvers back in one shot, making them usable for the other twin. (Unless you rule the warblade's initiation restriction to apply to both twins, in which case they'd both have to wait 1 round. Warblades can't initiate and recover in the same round). Such are the oddities of two bodies.

While, as always, I agree with Psyren's interpretation of concentration shutting down the other twin, there is no RAW to support that, so as written all the Binders, pisionicists, meldshapers, and so forth are able to go completely unrestricted. For the sake of your DM's sanity please don't do that, but there it is.

[CyberThread]

Hmm now am curious.... what do dvanti even count as ? huminoid , monsterous ?

[Doc_Maynot]

Just checked my copy of Dragon Magazine Compendium to be sure, they are humanoids. I love playing them as Factotum/Warblades.

[AuraTwilight]

Hmm now am curious.... what do dvanti even count as ? huminoid , monsterous ?

I'm just asking, don't read any malice into this, but have you ever read the Dvati race entry? A lot of your questions can be answered incredibly easily.

[CyberThread]

• Medium: As Medium creatures, dvati have no
special bonuses or penalties due to size.
• Dvati base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision: Dvati can see in the dark to a range of
up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only,
but it is otherwise like normal sight, and dvati can
function just fine with no light at all


I see nothing on creature type, on where it is usually put.

[Doc_Maynot]

The descriptive text is all they have indicating the type.

"Dvati are a strange race of humanoid creatures found in small enclaves scattered throughout the world and across the planes. "

[Psyren]

It's actually at the start of their entry:

"Dvati are a strange race of humanoid creatures found in small enclaves scattered throughout the world and across the planes."

I usually notice it first thing so it didn't occur to me they forgot to list it further down.

[thethird]

my favorite build for dvati by far is:

Dvati Swashbuckler 5 / Devoted defender 3 / Hit and run fighter 4 / Swashbuckler + 8 (assuming LA buyoff)

Feats
1 Weapon focus (any weapon you like, rapier for coolness)
3 Alertness
6 Combat reflexes
F1 Vexing flanker
9 Adaptable flanker
F2 Martial study (any shadow hand maneuver you like)
F4 Martial stace (assasin stance)
12 Daring outlaw
15 Combat expertise
18 Allied defense

The trick is adaptable flanker, letting they flank enemies that are in front of them while still being side by side (if the bonus to flanking stack it is a +7 to attack, if not it is still a +4). They have reliable ways of flanking (just standing side by side) so they might do all their precision damage SA 9D6, plus DEX, plus INT. By using combat expertise with allied defense their AC sky rockets so enemies will possibly miss against them granting free attacks to the other twin. Maxing tumble with some bonus to it a nice dex and acrobatic skill mastery they should be able to hit a 40DC to move 10ft a round while still full attacking.

Flaws and buying some feats (items, locations, magic architecture) can push the feats down and give them things such as craven.

[Doc_Maynot]

If we are posting Dvati builds, might I add my favorite such build.

Dvati Factotum 1/Swashbuckler 3/Factotum+3/Warblade 3/Factotum +4/ Warblade +5/6 Depending on LA Buyoff

The trick is focusing on Int. Take the Fairy Mysteries Initiate:Passions (Use INT instead of CON for hp), most(read all) DMs I've encountered allow the two to activate the feat as one character. Then for the rest of the feats take font of inspiration, and perhaps keen intellect (INT used for Will in place of WIS) and insightful reflexes (INT used for reflex instead of DEX). Seeing as Factotums have access to sneak attack dice and the use of +Factotum level to skill rolls/having perform as a factotum class skill allows you to get the most out of echo attack and flanks.