(3.5) ToB Barbarian?

[gurgleflep]

I see a lot of people saying "you can make a ___ using ToB with ___ maneuvers," so I'm curious as to how one could simulate/emulate a barbarian or if it's even possible for that matter.
So... can it be done?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Tiger Claw is all about that kind of thing. All that leaping and screaming? Maneuvers like Fountain of Blood and Prey on the Weak that give bonuses for dropping foes? You might not be able to get literal rage, but you can be the scariest bloodthirst lunatic out there.

[gurgleflep]

Tiger Claw is all about that kind of thing. All that leaping and screaming? Maneuvers like Fountain of Blood and Prey on the Weak that give bonuses for dropping foes? You might not be able to get literal rage, but you can be the scariest bloodthirst lunatic out there.

I like what I read on all of those :smallamused: Thanks
Correct me if I'm wrong, but something tells me I'd want to go with Warblade for the class (It's the d12 and proficiency list that make me think such).

[Feralventas]

Warblade Does give you most of what you'll want to emmulate the Barbarian class. Swordsage could potentially do the same with more skill points to work with, but wouldn't be near so good at taking a hit.

I would however point out that Crusader gets Barbarian's resiliance from the stand-point of being able to self-heal through causing violence (Crusader Strike, Revitalizing Strike) as well as to just say NO to dying a few times through Immortal Fortitude stance. Still, for the one or two of those that would give you more staying power you can take Martial Study/Stance feats. It might be worth dipping Barbarian for one or two levels first just to pick up Rage or a couple ACFs though.

[Doc_Maynot]

Yes, and prestige into Bloodclaw master, which requires Tiger Claw Maneuvers, to get their rage-like ability and some other fun stuff. Also would be useful seeing as Warblades like to add INT to a LOT of stuff and really wouldn't fit a barbarian for long.

[gurgleflep]

Warblade Does give you most of what you'll want to emmulate the Barbarian class. Swordsage could potentially do the same with more skill points to work with, but wouldn't be near so good at taking a hit.

I would however point out that Crusader gets Barbarian's resiliance from the stand-point of being able to self-heal through causing violence (Crusader Strike, Revitalizing Strike) as well as to just say NO to dying a few times through Immortal Fortitude stance. Still, for the one or two of those that would give you more staying power you can take Martial Study/Stance feats. It might be worth dipping Barbarian for one or two levels first just to pick up Rage or a couple ACFs though.

They heal through hurting others and can shrug off death? That's stinkin' awesome! :smallbiggrin:
Dip in barbarian for rage and such would be a good idea though - I'm totally gonna play this!


Yes, and prestige into Bloodclaw master, which requires Tiger Claw Maneuvers, to get their rage-like ability and some other fun stuff. Also would be useful seeing as Warblades like to add INT to a LOT of stuff and really wouldn't fit a barbarian for long.

I'll look at that PrC now, but INT isn't necessarily a bad thing - look at Conan, Genghis, and Attila :smallsmile:

[Doc_Maynot]

I'll look at that PrC now, but INT isn't necessarily a bad thing - look at Conan, Genghis, and Attila :smallsmile:

Touché :smallamused:

[Vortenger]

I like what I read on all of those :smallamused: Thanks
Correct me if I'm wrong, but something tells me I'd want to go with Warblade for the class (It's the d12 and proficiency list that make me think such).

The BAB, HD, Skill Pts, and saves all line up mechanically, as well as having access to many charge-friendly maneuvers, so warblade is the easiest parallel. You could easily make a good barbarian themed swordsage as well, but it would take more effort.

[lsfreak]

I'd honestly say closest barbarian would be crusader base, trading White Raven for Tiger Claw. The toughness is rather iconic to me, which some of the Devoted Spirit stuff plus the delayed damage pool certainly provide. Warblade works off-the-shelf very well, though: Diamond Mind and Iron Heart cover some of the toughness (save-boosting stuff, Iron Heart Surge); Tiger Claw has been explained; White Raven can very much give a "warlord of savage tribes" feel. If your DM okays discipline-trading though, I could see a warblade dropping Diamond Mind for Devoted Spirit: they are in line power-wise, and both have a number of maneuvers that fit a general barbarian concept well (and both have a number that don't, really, at all).

[gurgleflep]

How does discipline trading work? I'm not seeing anything on it (quick-skimming).

And thank you all for the help so far, I can't wait to play this monstrosity! :smallbiggrin:

[Fax Celestis]

Barbarian: Remove Trap Sense and Damage Reduction. Add in Maneuver progression and recovery as Swordsage. Give access to Stone Dragon, Iron Heart, Tiger Claw.

[lsfreak]

How does discipline trading work? I'm not seeing anything on it (quick-skimming).
It's nothing rules-based. It's just approaching the DM and saying, you know, this concept would work better dropping this discipline and grabbing this one instead. I do it all the time building NPCs to change things up a bit (as well as using a small handful of homebrew disciplines). The big thing is to be aware that not all disciplines are equal: I'd consider Devoted Spirit, White Raven, and maybe Diamond Mind top-tier ones, Desert Wind and Stone Dragon bottom-tier, and the others more-or-less equal in the middle, so I wouldn't go asking for Devoted Spirit in exchange for dropping Stone Dragon cuz you're gaining a lot more than you lose (a lot more if your DM doesn't rule out the "standing on the ground" requirement).

EDIT: But like I said, a warblade without any such trading still makes a damn good barbarian, likely focused on Tiger Claw and Iron Heart. It's just that the closest, I feel, is a crusader with both Devoted Spirit and Tiger Claw (or maybe White Raven/Tiger Claw), which requires trading. (Honestly, if someone proposed it in a game I was running, I'd let them drop Stone Dragon for Tiger Claw despite what I said earlier about which disciplines are equivalent, because crusaders could use a little more when it comes to disciplines imo. If I was feeling generous, might even just give them Tiger Claw on top of what crusaders get, no trading required.)

[Gigas Breaker]

Dip barbarian and take Extra Rage and then start Warblade or Crusader. You get everything! I had a Barbarian Crusader of Kord that I had fluffed to only be granted healing abilities by Kord while hitting people.

[Incorrect]

Level 1 Warblade.
Punishing Stance is your rage. + Damage - AC.

Ps: Your secret is that you are always angry :smallwink:

[Larkas]

To be honest, I'm not sure you can start maneuvers while raging.

[Red Fel]

To be honest, I'm not sure you can start maneuvers while raging.

Let's go to the videotape!


While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats.

So, he can't use certain skills, that's clear. Maneuvers are not skills, although those which require skill checks would obviously be excluded by this (so, no Diamond Mind tricks). He can't use spells or magic items, but maneuvers don't fit into either of those categories. And he can't use any abilities that "require patience or concentration," which is likely up to DM interpretation.

I think he can certainly initiate some maneuvers. In fact, a number of disciplines go very nicely with the Barbarian flavor, such as Iron Heart, Stone Dragon and Tiger Claw.

[jaybird]

Let's go to the videotape!



So, he can't use certain skills, that's clear. Maneuvers are not skills, although those which require skill checks would obviously be excluded by this (so, no Diamond Mind tricks). He can't use spells or magic items, but maneuvers don't fit into either of those categories. And he can't use any abilities that "require patience or concentration," which is likely up to DM interpretation.

I think he can certainly initiate some maneuvers. In fact, a number of disciplines go very nicely with the Barbarian flavor, such as Iron Heart, Stone Dragon and Tiger Claw.

Doesn't sound too complicated. Schools with Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride as key skills would be allowed during Rage, which opens up AFAIK Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Setting Sun, and Devoted Spirit.

EDIT: also the ones that use non Int/Cha/Dex skills, namely Tiger Claw. Diamond Mind is completely out IMO.

[Rijan_Sai]

Doesn't sound too complicated. Schools with Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride as key skills would be allowed during Rage, which opens up AFAIK Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Setting Sun, and Devoted Spirit.

EDIT: also the ones that use non Int/Cha/Dex skills, namely Tiger Claw. Diamond Mind is completely out IMO.

Bolded for emphasis:
Tiger Claw's key skill is Jump, which is STR based. So there should be no problem using those during Rage. If it were DEX based, there would be a lot a sad builds that couldn't use Leap Attack in Rage...

[A.A.King]

Would a Barbarian / Warblade / Tigerclaw profit from using the City Brawler variant? The one were the barbarian gets improved unarmed strike and two-weapon fighting (unarmed strike only).

[Manly Man]

also the ones that use non Int/Cha/Dex skills, namely Tiger Claw. Diamond Mind is completely out IMO.

If you follow Righteous Wrath's wording, you could still make Concentration checks when raging.

[Gigas Breaker]

You could still use the Diamond Mind maneuvers that don't use concentration checks like Emerald Razor and Quicksilver Motion.

[gurgleflep]

Well it looks like I've got some reading to do :smalleek: (ToB, not the comments - I already read all of those :smallsmile:)
And again, thank you all for the help :smallsmile:

[DR27]

If your DM were to allow this:Bloodied Berserker [General]
Your injuries cause you to fly into a focused rage. When things seem dire, you rise to the occasion with a vengeance.
Prerequisites: Con 13
Benefits: Whenever your current hit point total is below 5 × your base attack bonus, you fly into a rage. You gain a +4 bonus to your Strength score, a +2 bonus on saves, damage reduction 2/-, and a –2 penalty to your AC. The damage reduction granted by your rage stacks with any similar kind of damage reduction. There is no limit to the number of times per day you can enter this rage. While raging, a you cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can you cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. You can use any feat you have except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats. You cannot voluntarily end your rage, although you automatically drop out of it while unconscious, helpless, or (most likely) when you receive healing to bring your current hit points above the threshold.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as one of his bonus feats.

Maybe make a second/third feat that gives you the greater versions - just have the prereq be this feat and BAB +11, +18(capstone)Then just a straight Warblade would be a barbarian - only really have to exclude Diamond Mind, take other maneuvers as you see fit for your fluff. And you don't have to be an unwashed savage unless you decide to be one!