combat tip

[derninus]

Hello, im having abit problems with my pc's optimizing their characters abit too much, combat usualy last 3-5 rounds even with big/many opponents - even if the combat is set 2-3 CR above the party

i feel abit stuck as if i just controll some of them with ie tasha/stun/paralysis w/e i will **** up the players gameplay as they wont patitipate in the combat and if i put stronger creatures there is a real posibility of multiple deaths in every combat

so... more creatures? more casters? terrain to my advantage? more nuke? etc any suggestions?

[Deca4531]

whenever i run into this problem i simply remind my party "its nice to feel powerful, but just know the stronger you get the stronger i make them." i often end up throwing 3 or 4 monsters at 3 to 5 CRs above the parties lv. and if a player dies well that's to be expected sometimes, as long as your not slaughtering someone every fight. and if you feel like you are in danger of wiping the party then pull your punches, take one attack action instead of o full round. i tend to only use 1 or 2 claws instead of 2 claws, a bite and a tail slam.

[Red Fel]

As has been mentioned in other threads, you have four options:

1: Talk to the players and explain your discomfort with their optimizing.

2: Turn it into an arms race, and spew increasingly powerful enemies after them.

3: Turn it tactical, playing to their weaknesses; launch AMFs at their casters, difficult terrain and traps at their melee, and concealment at their ranged.

4: Talk to the players.

That's basically it.

[Bloodgruve]

I run a game where 2 to 12 players can show up. Due to this situation I've done everything from keeping a monster alive until I feel the party has had enough fun with it (usually effectively doubling the HP), to throwing a CR14 encounter at a group of 6th level players, or giving challenging encounters negative levels. So really, I cheat ;)

In the end, its our job to make the players feel challenged but powerful. I usually try to get a few players on the ground but rarely kill them unless they taunt the dragon...

If you have veteran players who know monster stats just tell them that you're customizing monsters and they won't know what to specifically expect.

Also, remember that the CR's are built for ~5 encounters a day, If you give them one encounter make it a hard one.

[HalfQuart]

One of the aspects of CR that I think is often overlooked is the tactics that the MM lists for the given monster. They're really only that particular CR if you use the listed tactics. For example, here's the Combat blurb for Red Dragon:

Because red dragons are so confident, they seldom pause to appraise an adversary. On spotting a target, they make a snap decision whether to attack, using one of many strategies worked out ahead of time. A red dragon lands to attack small, weak creatures with its claws and bite rather than obliterating them with its breath weapon, so as not to destroy any treasure they might be carrying.
Red Dragons are quite intelligent... if you wanted to play one as really crafty, assessing the party ahead of time, and then using its abilities, spells, and breath weapon to great effect against the party, then you'll probably be increasing the CR of the encounter.

Likewise you can often dumb down the tactics and make the encounter easier.

[Slipperychicken]

Combat blurb for Red Dragon:


Thing is, people don't play with equipment destruction; the dragon's breath has no effect on treasure in most games.

[HalfQuart]

Thing is, people don't play with equipment destruction; the dragon's breath has no effect on treasure in most games.
Oh, I totally agree with that. I'm just saying that if you change the way the monster was intended to act, you're likely to change the CR that the monster was designed to play at. You can refluff the reasons for that however you want, since the given reason is pretty dumb.

[John Longarrow]

derninus,

What tactics are the party using most? Or do they adapt quickly to anything you throw at them?

Often when I talk to DMs that have a hard time making encounters last it is because they are running all of their monsters like, well, Monsters. Roar, charge, and try to kill.

If you have been doing this, try really mixing it up on the players. Have multiple monsters that are sticking to ranged combat with difficult terrain of some type between them and the party. If the party has a set game plan and it doesn't fit against the current monster they can be forced into new ways of fighting.

NOTE: Some times having a fight in an area/situation the players/characters don't expect can be really fun, like seeing a BBEG sitting in a tavern full of commoners.

[Waker]

Reposted from another thread.

-Stagger combat flow Rather than have all the combatants out in the open right at the start, consider holding some in the reserve for a few rounds. If the party goes all out in the opening rounds, they may run out of resources or leave themselves exposed to a counterattack. Similarly the enemy may adopt a sacrificial strategy wherein they expose some of them to be defeated by the party and then ambush the party while they are looting/recovering.
-Environmental Concerns There are plenty of aspects of location that can interfere with combat. Mist being blown in can limit visibility, muddy terrain can impede a charge, a flooded field might hide enemies lurking just under the surface, loud noises could trigger an avalanche... Even if the terrain isn't actively dangerous, it can still hinder the party and make them try to use it to their advantage. So will the enemy.