[3.5] How to Break a DM

[Red Fel]

Let me start by saying that DMs are often mistreated, abused and abandoned, and won't you adopt a lonely, sad DM and give it the caring players it never had?

Okay, the sympathy votes out of the way, now to the meat of the post. Lately, I've been feeling a tad puckish, and my unsatisfied mischievous streak has developed a taste for human suffering. So here's the thread that will make DMs flee for the hills.

Everybody has had that that one DM. You know the one. Willing to fiat this and that, plays the DMPC like he's a tiny deity (or maybe he is one), has you riding the rails so long you don't even recognize the scenery anymore. For whatever reason you've stuck it out. (I would have left, but clearly, you have a masochistic streak that I lack.) And then something happens that just breaks the proverbial camel's back. You want to see him suffer.

It's a simple inquiry. List here your ideas for breaking the DM. It could be a race/template/class/feat combination that cracks the game wide open short of DM fiat. It could be a particular gameplay mechanic that uproots his perfectly-laid railroad. It could be a particular quirk or habit that drives the DM to distraction. The goal is to make the guy snap.

Yes, it's a losing fight. You gain absolutely nothing by infuriating the master of your game. Nothing, except a perverse satisfaction that you've won a moral victory. You monster.

Yes, I am familiar with the "Complete S**ghead's Guide to Destroying a Campaign," but let's make this personal, shall we? Bonus points if you come up with ideas that don't involve ruining the fun for your fellow players. Extra bonus points if you bring them along for the ride. Triple word score if you include a story of something you actually did.

Disclaimer: This is all intended in fun. I do not recommend using any of these ideas against an actual DM. I do not recommend actually derailing a campaign. Seriously, don't do it. Just walk away.

[Emperor Tippy]

Build a Grappler. Insist on attacking everything with grapples.

Play a paranoid who insists on spot and listen checks every round (get the feat that makes them free actions once per round and go to town). Use Sense Motive on every interaction with anyone.

[PersonMan]

Willing to fiat this and that

[...]

It could be a race/template/class/feat combination that cracks the game wide open short of DM fiat.

"He's willing to fiat things, so how about some things that are only blocked by fiat?"

Somehow I can't see this working.

[Red Fel]

"He's willing to fiat things, so how about some things that are only blocked by fiat?"

Somehow I can't see this working.

It's not about it working, PM; by definition, nothing works on the DM. He is literally in a position to take the entire world and go home.

Still, if you could try, if you could do something so severe that you could hear the aneurism, what would it be?

[PersonMan]

I know, but trolling someone in such a way won't work if they've already shown themselves to be totally cool with fiat-no ing things.

[Fable Wright]

Build a Grappler. Insist on attacking everything with grapples.

Play a paranoid who insists on spot and listen checks every round (get the feat that makes them free actions once per round and go to town). Use Sense Motive on every interaction with anyone.

Wait. Tippy is talking about destroying a campaign, and didn't mention spellcasters or scrolls? I am confused and disturbed.

On topic: Old Man Henderson (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Old_Man_Henderson). Just make a Henderson, regardless of what class you are, and you have a very good chance of breaking your DM.

[ArcturusV]

Pick up the Dodge Feat, declare that you have to use it every round or you'll lose your feat, so every 6 seconds of game time you talk about how you're Dodging that blade of grass or that tree or that rock...

Bigger thing? I am the Master of Fate.

Something I've seen a few times before, considered doing, but never QUITE had call to except a few times when I was DMing. Start writing out notes/plans on bits of paper, putting them in sealed envelopes that are openly viewable all game on the table. Each envelope includes some plan that you set up ahead of time... things like traps you've placed, contingencies you cast, etc, etc, etc. It's all perfectly fair. Those things are sealed and you cannot change them. Whatever you did should fit the rules. Roll any rolls your plan needed when you enact them. But it irks some people to know you have some "ace" up your sleeve, which is totally legit, and they can't see coming until they tell you already what's happening and you go "Ah, ah, ah! You've activated my trap!" and spring it on them.

At the very least, you make the DM sound like a **** and make him squirm as he says "oh... um... no... no... you can't... that doesn't work because.. Um... this!" at the best he's so flabbergasted by something that is legit, but he didn't see coming that you get away with it.

[pwykersotz]

In the spirit of good fun...

1. Treat everything the DM says as law. Not only that, treat it as sacred. If he says that you feel terrified of a dragon, or even that the fire consuming a building is daunting, play it to the hilt. Refuse to confront the challenge until you have custom made safety gear that will guarantee your life. That temple fills you with awe? Bow before your new deity. The sky is blue? That is the bluest blue you've ever seen! Quick, capture it on canvas.

2. Get NPC's to do all the work for you. The town has a sheriff that wants you to go on a quest? Insist that he go too. When he refuses, beg and plead, and then go start rolling diplomacy checks against random NPC's to try to get them to come along. When the GM won't let you take anyone else (or caps the number of people you can take), declare that if it is too dangerous for them, it is probably too dangerous for you as well.

3. React to every threat with ritualistic suicide. Now again on your new character. If the GM says you fail, keep trying. If you still fail, celebrate your new immunity to death.

[Segev]

This technique requires complicity, and is really only going to work if the other players were pretty much going to walk away anyway.

Simply start ignoring the DM when you don't like what you hear from him. Describe your character's actions as if any fiat the DM invoked didn't happen. Openly and brazenly metagame, looking up stats for what you assume the monster is, and treat it as dead when you think you've killed it. State how you're looting the room.

Ignore him if he tells you you take arbitrary damage, are dead, are K.O.'d, etc.

Get the other players to act like your declarations are what's really happening.


For a truly advanced (in the "Stage 4 Cancer" sense of the word) case of this, simply start declaring your character's actions by fiat, and assume they've worked. If the DM tells you something happens, either ignore him or tell him, "no, that isn't what happened," unless it's in agreement with what you've decided to do.

Essentially, break the social contract that gives the DM exclusive control over the world's events. God-mode his NPCs into doing what you want them to, and ignore him if he protests.

The game will rapidly degenerate to nonsense if the DM isn't one to think he can "win" by playing along and trying to play a rapidly shifting game of RP Calvinball with you, but it should be hilarious in the meantime.

[Der_DWSage]

Start breaking out the totally legit gamebreakers. Carry around a bucket of water to 'revive' people with, pointing out how after two rounds of drowning, their HP is set to 0.

Start Diplomancing just about everything.

Be That Bard, who insists on singing in realtime. Bonus points if you forget half the words and just start humming along at points.

In accordance to being That Bard, also work on the Dragonfire Inspiration end of things. I believe the record for extra damage was somewhere along 26d6 per hit, while taking 3d4 subdual damage every round. See if you can break that, all while singing '100 bottles of beer on the wall' in the loudest, most annoying voice you can manage.

[DungeonDelver]

Go Full Murderhobo.

It's simple, really. Start like you're going to the seedy side of town for...whatever reasons you can justify. Or the poor side. Then just start killing people. Front load your spell selection with save-or-dies and blast spells.

True, you'll eventually force the DM to fiat your actions away, but he's going to fiat -everything- away that you do. This DM doesn't care one whit for your enjoyment, so why not tear the world down that he's built?

[Slipperychicken]

My group didn't quite "break" our DM, but we did give him some mental scars (he got better!) when he had all kinds of cool stuff waiting behind a portal at the end of a dungeon, but a combination of one player trolling and another deciding to PvP for the lulz led to us killing each other... right before we got to the portal. He looked like he had shell shock after that and didn't DM again for about a month.

[illyrus]

Carry a notepad with you to the game and a pen. Whenever the GM makes a BS ruling write it down with a number beside it then get him to sign it.

Become a rules lawyer on those GM created rules and find a way to abuse the hell out of them. Taken he signed it he can't effectively argue that it worked a different way. Each time he is forced to withdraw or modify/"clarify" a GM rule you get 1 point.

For actual in game stuff you can do similar with the simulacrum spell. GM creates monster/NPC with fiat-power and plot armor, make a half strength copy and toss on some buffs. You don't even have to kill the thing, just get a bit of its DNA and you're good to go. Why stop at one when you can have 10 running around etc.

Basically anything capable of throwing the GM's BS back at them where they either have to call their own creations (powers, rules, critters, etc) BS or suffer.

[navar100]

The only thing I need to do to break one of my DMs is not like one of his house rules and explain why.

[Azoth]

One of my favorites is to go suicide warrior on them. Say screw tactics, planning, organization, ect...and just charge into absolutely everything headlong with no regard for status effects, damage taken, or anything. Watch him have to start backpeddling constantly to try and fiat you alive instead of his enemies.

[ddude987]

One of my favorites is to go suicide warrior on them. Say screw tactics, planning, organization, ect...and just charge into absolutely everything headlong with no regard for status effects, damage taken, or anything. Watch him have to start backpeddling constantly to try and fiat you alive instead of his enemies.

Not all DMs will fiat you to life, though it can be quite comedic to full power attack one shot the DMs well crafted important quest giving NPC, or die from angering that NPC and your party refuses to help him with the quest. Goodbye planning.

[Magesmiley]

Kill off his favorite DMPC or NPCs. Or screw them up in a manner that makes them forever useless (this one can be much more satisfying). If there is a much hated DMPC, it seems more likely that the other players would be liable to help.

Cast spells or offer items to 'help' the character. Use a spell that normally has a save but is harmless (healing is the best one here). Have a notecard that you set in front of you face down saying 'I actually cast XYZ'. Once the character forgoes the save and the DM starts applying the effects, flip the card over. If you're feeling particularly cruel, you could make the first few times something relatively harmless, but amusing. And then use a card every time you cast a spell for the DMPC and NPCs, sometimes casting the real things, sometimes not. And make the DM decide if the character is going to try to save or not before flipping the card.

Offer insults to every NPC you meet. Over the top ones that they can't ignore. If they attack you deal with them in self-defense. If they don't, continue to provoke them. You could even make this a competition with your friends on who can hand out the biggest insults. And then keep score on how many NPCs you each take out in this manner.

Skip the dungeon. Hack and slash your way through the nearest town or village as if it was a dungeon.

Use animate dead liberally to raise an army (thios works well with hacking and slashing through a town).

Build a golem. Lots of monsters and NPCs have trouble taking these out.

Use charm and dominate spells a lot. Use the subjects as clay pigeons. An alternate option would be to use the 'harmless' spell trick to charm/dominate all of the members of your party. Then order them to take out the DMPC. Everyone else could be considered blameless as they were under the effects of the spell, but the players (if annoyed at the DMPC) could put all of their skill and conniving into taking the DMPC out and argue that they were RPing the effect their characters were under.

[Manly Man]

Make a d2 Crusader.

[Azoth]

One I am not too proud of was when our party TPKed we all decided we'd had enough and our answer was mean. Since the DM insisted that fights against pit fiends, great wyrm dragons, beholders and the like were fair against a mid/low op level 10 party we decided to make him right. This was to the tune of Anthropomorphic bat druid/planarshepard, DMM persist cleric, god wizards, and their kind. The only dirty CO tricks we didn't pull were the worst of the TO.

His campaign world was ripped asunder in ways I have never since done or bore witness to. Was a blast watching him sweat, curse, and nearly cry. He ended the campaign after only 3 sessions.

[Slipperychicken]

I've heard a lot about DM plans being scuttled when portions of the campaign setting are severely damaged or rendered uninhabitable. Common examples include burning down important buildings, inns, cities, and forests. Also somehow collapsing or flooding underground environments.

[Kesnit]

I sort-of did this several years ago.

The normal DM was taking a break from gaming, so one of the other players (Z) was running a campaign. Two of us were actually playing. Neither of us are optimizers. Z thought he was, but he really wasn't.

The PCs were level 18, with plans to send us into epic eventually. I was playing a Hexblade; the other player was a True Necromancer. Since there were only 2 players (although the TN literally had an army), Z created 2 DMPCs, both of whom were already epic level.

After a long battle which I spent slowly circling around the boss undead-thing with its Aura of Cold (damage every round unless you make a save that my Hellhound familiar* was unlikely to make - with double damage from cold)** to attempt to go after the smaller undead (still with the Aura, but at a lower, makeable save and less damage), the DM decided my Hexblade needed help. So he homebrewed a Hexblade PrC that was very over powered. (I don't remember now what he did.) He told me I could tweek my character sheet to get the pre-reqs.

His idea (which I didn't know when he gave me the PrC write-up) was that I would start the PrC when we leveled to 19. I realized with a few small changes to my build, I could qualify at 12. So when I came to the next game, I had a Hexblade 12/PrC 6. Since it was his homebrew PrC that he'd made specifically for me, he couldn't really tell me I couldn't use it.




*I didn't realize it at the time - and it didn't affect anything in the long run - but I was basing my Hellhound off my Hexblade level, not my caster level.

** I actually had Resist Energy on my spell list and cast it on myself and my familiar. The boss's damage aura was so high that even making the save, we would have taken considerable damage.

[PersonMan]

Start breaking out the totally legit gamebreakers. Carry around a bucket of water to 'revive' people with, pointing out how after two rounds of drowning, their HP is set to 0.

And then they die, because nothing can stop drowning.

Live by the RAW, die by the RAW.

[Slipperychicken]

And then they die, because nothing can stop drowning.

Live by the RAW, die by the RAW.

Then keep acting in death, because nothing restricts posthumous actions..

[Jormengand]

Truenamer 20 can gate in a Solar Angel almost at will as a SLA. The Solar can then Limited Wish, Wish and Miracle, the first two as SLAs. Win everything.

[Blackjackg]

*I didn't realize it at the time - and it didn't affect anything in the long run - but I was basing my Hellhound off my Hexblade level, not my caster level.


Hexblade familiars don't go off caster level, they do "as a sorcerer three levels lower." As far as I've been able to glean from reading differently-worded rules in different places, it's always based on class level, not caster level. Unless there's been some explicit ruling to the contrary that I'm not aware of.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Hexblade familiars don't go off caster level, they do "as a sorcerer three levels lower." As far as I've been able to glean from reading differently-worded rules in different places, it's always based on class level, not caster level. Unless there's been some explicit ruling to the contrary that I'm not aware of.

If he got his familiar via the Obtain Familiar feat, then it'd be based off of his CL.

[nedz]

One of my favorites is to go suicide warrior on them. Say screw tactics, planning, organization, ect...and just charge into absolutely everything headlong with no regard for status effects, damage taken, or anything. Watch him have to start backpeddling constantly to try and fiat you alive instead of his enemies.

In my games: Leroy dies. :smallcool:


I've heard a lot about DM plans being scuttled when portions of the campaign setting are severely damaged or rendered uninhabitable. Common examples include burning down important buildings, inns, cities, and forests. Also somehow collapsing or flooding underground environments.

But a true world building DM will see this as an opportunity to re-work part of their setting.

[Arbane]

Get Trekkin to play in the game. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275152) :smallbiggrin:

Alternately, get a Decanter of Endless Water and solve ALL your problems with hydrodynamics.

[Deathra13]

I'll start by saying I normally end up being the DM, but I've seen this often enough and know the problems and here's my recommendation. You don't want to destroy the DM, you want to destroy his control. The best method of doing that is the other players. Steal from them, plant the evidence on another player. Incite party conflict in any way you can. The DM can fiat all he wants but once he starts having to tell players how their character reacts to something he has lost, granted so have you because the game is going to die once this gets rolling, but it will teach them a lesson about not pissing you off if they invite you to a game if nothing else.

[Jack_Simth]

Wait. Tippy is talking about destroying a campaign, and didn't mention spellcasters or scrolls? I am confused and disturbed.Of course he is. Spellcasters and scrolls? Well, those rules are relatively simple - save / SR? Sure. As a player, you're required to be able to fully explain anything funky.

Grappling, however, you don't need to explain (just where you get your bonuses). The rules for it, however, are rather annoyingly complex. The idea appears to be break the DM's fun, and the simplest way to do that is to get the DM to have to work with a particularly annoying set of rules that is not broken in the 'overpowered' sense, just the 'very annoying to use' sense.

[The Insanity]

A crowbar to the knee should do the trick.

[Ortesk]

I had a dm who just railroaded entire way. If one player did 2000 damage on the pit fiend and pit fiend was important to campaign, well this was the incredible pit fiend for pelors sake. He always had us follow yellow brick road, try to deviate and NO. We get in a dungeon where we are bound to be thumped (He see's it as a plot device) and cleric tries plane shift, sorry no planar travel. Wizard uses teleport, you guessed it. Not gonna work, sorry. So after 18 levels of this nonsense, my druid decides this town sent us to hell and back in there name and there reason we've been beaten so bad. I'm NE, so i decide lay down the pain. I use wind wall, making a cocoon around me, Anti Life shell, and hehe go to town. I use Blizzard scrolls like mad, casting town in a blizzard where there blinded. i use control wind, sending tornados all about. I summan earth elemantals, destroying his precious 3 month to make city. when its all said and done, oh you said city had a river by it right? tsunami scrolls ftw!!!!! We never played again, but for 20 minutes it was worth seeing his face go white and looking on in shock, saying "okay" as i unleashed hell on earth

[Friv]

Be absurd in a serious game. In a D&D game, sit down and make Sailor Moon. Insist on starting every fight with a "rousing speech" because talking is a free action. Declare that orcs are champions of the Negamoon.

Give every NPC a humourous, highly anachronistic nickname, ideally one that's a reference to a show or book that everyone at the table has seen. For bonus points, keep all of them in-setting for a single work of fiction. Monty Python or the Simpsons is a traditional choice, but 8-Bit Theater is also a good one. If you do this occasionally, it's funny, so don't do it occasionally. Do it for every. single. character.

On the flipside, if the game is supposed to be funny, refuse. Make a tortured soul, and berate anyone you catch having fun. Play as 80's Batman. Remind people that your entire family was murdered. Refuse to even acknowledge the GM's attempts at humour.

[Bullet06320]

I ruined a DM's perfectly planned dungeon once, he was running return to the temple of elemental evil.
I was playing a necromancer, and was animating everything the party killed and was using them to run through his traps and the other denizens of the dungeon, my undead was just fodder, used to get through it.
about halfway through, he just gave up, packed up his books and left, I think I was when I killed then animated his favorite npc that did it tho

I left another game, it was a whotewolf game when I wasn't allowed to have a ninjamonkey, my character had all the skills and powers necessary to do it, but wasn't allowed, the guy running it was like it doesn't work that way, he was the type to continuesly tweak the rules, and hated it when we kept breaking them on him, I cant help it when the books says this how it works, im just using it like its written

I am a bit of a rules lawyer at times tho, but wat good player isn't? lol

[Slipperychicken]

Give every NPC a humourous, highly anachronistic nickname, ideally one that's a reference to a show or book that everyone at the table has seen. For bonus points, keep all of them in-setting for a single work of fiction. Monty Python or the Simpsons is a traditional choice, but 8-Bit Theater is also a good one. If you do this occasionally, it's funny, so don't do it occasionally. Do it for every. single. character.


It definitely seems to help if the nicknames are catchy and other players start using them too.

[nedz]

Give every NPC a humourous, highly anachronistic nickname, ideally one that's a reference to a show or book that everyone at the table has seen. For bonus points, keep all of them in-setting for a single work of fiction. Monty Python or the Simpsons is a traditional choice, but 8-Bit Theater is also a good one. If you do this occasionally, it's funny, so don't do it occasionally. Do it for every. single. character.It definitely seems to help if the nicknames are catchy and other players start using them too.

At first I did get a little annoyed when my player's started doing this, now I simply pre-empt them. Also revenge can be had by giving their familiars/cohorts etc. ridiculous nicknames in return. People soon tire of this.

[Kane0]

I'm sad to say i neary broke a DM once completely by accident. All i did was play a regular warlock.

The poor guy was so used to AD&D that an at-will invisible, flying sniper with teleportation, charm and UMD just blew him away.

I hadnt even gotten into The Dead Walk at that point, i was too lazy to do keep track of them.

The guy never looked at the tiers the same way again.

[Jon_Dahl]

Long time ago, like 10 years ago, I was completely fed up with my DM, but I didn't want to quit the group. I decided that I would create a professional of some sort, such as a tailor, and simply practice that profession no matter what happens. If my DM had asked about it, I would've said that he had let me create a tailor and I could roleplay a tailor if I wanted to. It would've been worth it for a couple of sessions, just to see his reaction.

It's a roleplaying game, and you can play any kind of character who want, such as a farmer and start farming. Who said anything about killing creatures and taking their stuff? Pretent that you're a real hardcore gamer. It will seem like lunacy, but depending on your DM/GM you may enjoy the result.