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OldTrees1
2013-10-03, 06:05 PM
How can I improve this character plan? It is intended to be a versatile battlefield control tank that can hopefully still use combat maneuvers against reasonable CR larger opponents.
Special objective: Be able to effectively engage a strafing dragon (It is my duty as a Dragonborn)
Sources: All WotC books (but only 1 setting specific setting), Dragon Compendium, 1 thing from Dragon Magazine(Used on Half Minotaur)

Relevant DM interpretations:
1) Half Minotaur does not grant size bonuses to stats despite increasing size
2) Dragonborn Raptorians retain Raptorian flight
3) The first stance in a ToB class is 1st level.
[Doesn't matter since I like 20% miss chance anyways]
4) Knock-down + Improved Trip results in Attack -> Trip -> Attack on that single target.
5) Flaws must impact the character

Race: Dragonborn Half Minotaur Raptorian

Classes:
Barbarian 2(Whirling Frenzy, Spirit Lion, Wolf Totem)
Fighter 2
Swordsage 1(Unarmed)
Rogue 2(Feat)
Warblade 1
Warhulk 4

BAB:+6 (from level 8 to 12+)

Abilities: (32 point buy)
Str 35[39]=16 +4 racial +3 levels +8 warhulk +4 enhancement [+4rage]
Con 16=12 +4 racial
Dex 18=18 -2 racial +2 enhancement
Int 8=10 -2 racial
Wis/Cha 8 = 8

Feats:
1st: Combat Reflexes,Extra Rage(flaw), Power Attack(flaw)
2nd: Improved Trip[wolf totem]
3rd: Knockdown, Improved Bullrush[Ftr]
4th: Knockback[Ftr]
5th: Improved Unarmed Strike[unarmed swordsage]
6th: Entangling Exhalation, Cleave[Ftr],
7th: Weapon Focus[Ftr]
9th: Three Mountain
12th: Shape Breath
Wealth: Iron Will[Otyugh Hole]

Flaws/Traits: -1AC, -3Fort/-1Fort+1Will, -1Ref+1Will

Saves:
Fort +14=12+3Con-3Flaw-1Trait+3Resistance
Ref +12[+14]=6+4Dex-1Trait+3Resistance[+2 rage]
Will +10=3-1Wis+3IronWill+2Traits+3Resistance

Gear: out of 88000gp
+1 Transmuting Morningstar[18308]
+1 Animated Heavy Shield[9170]
+1 Death Ward Light Fortification Chain Shirt[9250]
Vest of Resistance +3[9K]
Cloak of Deflection +1[2K]
Boots of +2 Dex[4K]
Gauntlets of +4 Str[16K]
Otyugh Hole[3K]
Blindfold of True Darkness[9K]
8272gp

Invader
2013-10-03, 08:05 PM
For one, there's no interpretation about gaining size bonuses, you do, it says it in black and white so he's wrong on that account.

Could you find a better weapon than a morning star? I'm assuming you're using it for the trip, I'm not sure if there would be something more beneficial though.

You can't take the spirit lion and wolf totem ACF's at the same time.

OldTrees1
2013-10-03, 10:11 PM
For one, there's no interpretation about gaining size bonuses, you do, it says it in black and white so he's wrong on that account.

Could you find a better weapon than a morning star? I'm assuming you're using it for the trip, I'm not sure if there would be something more beneficial though.

You can't take the spirit lion and wolf totem ACF's at the same time.

I am fine with the nerfed version of Half Minotaur.

I can use a Morningstar, Heavy Mace or Greatclub as a weapon. (restricted by the Three Mountain weapon style) Strangely none of these are trip weapons.

Spirit Lion[CC] replaces Fast Movement
Wolf Totem[UA] replaces Uncanny Dodge
Why can't they be combined?

Thank you for your help so far.

Spuddles
2013-10-03, 10:23 PM
You don't need a trip weapon to make trip attacks, and you definitely don't need a trip weapon to make trip attacks with knock-down.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2013-10-04, 04:03 AM
I can use a Morningstar, Heavy Mace or Greatclub as a weapon. (restricted by the Three Mountain weapon style) Strangely none of these are trip weapons.

Spirit Lion[CC] replaces Fast Movement
Wolf Totem[UA] replaces Uncanny Dodge
Why can't they be combined?

Thank you for your help so far.

You can indeed use both Lion Spirit and Wolf Totem. Wolf Totem is a class variant, which does not replace Fast Movement. Lion Spirit is an alternate class feature that can be used with any version of Barbarian that would normally get Fast Movement. Also consider using Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) instead of the standard Rage. Visit the Otyugh Hole an extra time for Extend Rage.

You can use Knock-Down to make a trip with any weapon. You could also use a Warmace from CW (works for any feats as a Heavy Mace per CV p116) and take Exotic Weapon Master for the Trip Attack and Uncanny Blow tricks.

I'd switch your flaws to City Slicker and No Time For Book Learning (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30). You can normally take ten on Survival with Wis 10 to feed yourself in the wild, which City Slicker impacts. You would have been able to read and write thanks to multiclassing, which the other flaw impacts.

Invader
2013-10-04, 04:50 AM
Spirit Lion[CC] replaces Fast Movement
Wolf Totem[UA] replaces Uncanny Dodge
Why can't they be combined?

Thank you for your help so far.

My mistake, I was thinking of something else.

Ortesk
2013-10-04, 05:21 AM
You can pick up stand still. reflex save =10+damage dealt. your big, you hit like a dodge dakota. but you wont be able to trip everything, and what you cant has a horrid reflex save and you bang it on the head and it doesnt move. Would work well i thinks (Also i would use EWP Spiked Chain because i like reach, and monkey grip means your wielding a huge spiked chain. Also if your willing to change race, become a goliath, strength boost and powerful build. you could in theory wield(comes down to if dm lets powerful build and monkey grip stack) wield a gargantuan spiked chain. you kind of own the battle field)

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2013-10-04, 05:52 AM
You can pick up stand still. reflex save =10+damage dealt. your big, you hit like a dodge dakota. but you wont be able to trip everything, and what you cant has a horrid reflex save and you bang it on the head and it doesnt move.

Actually, for flying opponents with average or worse maneuverability, Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill) will actually stop them from maintaining their minimum forward speed and they'll drop like a rock.

Ortesk
2013-10-04, 06:10 AM
Actually, for flying opponents with average or worse maneuverability, Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill) will actually stop them from maintaining their minimum forward speed and they'll drop like a rock.

Good to know, so since he fights dragons, it basically destroys any dragon he faces

ddude987
2013-10-04, 10:27 AM
Some of those interpretations are not interpretations, they are just undebatably right or wrong. Knockdown was errated to specifically call out not grating an extra attack with improved trip. Also you should take lion totem as well as wolf totem. You can take both, and there is no reason not to.

OldTrees1
2013-10-04, 12:11 PM
@Biffoniacus_Furiou
Oops I forgot to mention I was using Whirling Frenzy.

Extend Rage from Otyugh Hole is a good call since it would extend the rage from 6rds to 11rds.

Warmace-Exotic Weapon Master sounds nice but Warhulk 1 sets my ranks in Int skills to 0 permanently thus disqualifying me from EWM. This would not be the end except EWM is in Complete Warrior which has the additional rule about loosing benefits from prestige classes you no longer qualify for.

I will ask about those flaws but I do not think my DM will go for the Cityslicker one since we do not normally live off the land. The Illiteracy one might work.


You can pick up stand still. reflex save =10+damage dealt. your big, you hit like a dodge dakota. but you wont be able to trip everything, and what you cant has a horrid reflex save and you bang it on the head and it doesnt move. Would work well i thinks (Also i would use EWP Spiked Chain because i like reach, and monkey grip means your wielding a huge spiked chain. Also if your willing to change race, become a goliath, strength boost and powerful build. you could in theory wield(comes down to if dm lets powerful build and monkey grip stack) wield a gargantuan spiked chain. you kind of own the battle field)

Standstill is a good option.

I can't use a spiked chain and use Three Mountain for nausea. However large size does give me 10ft of natural reach.

Monkey grip increases the weapon base damage and lowers the attack. With my strength that would be a net loss. Also larger sized weapons do not give me anything beyond damage.

I could replace my race (Flight) but that would require fitting in 2 additional feats (Dragon Wings, Improved Dragon Wings). Powerful build gives me a +4 on combat maneuvers and Goliath's ability modifiers would give me a net +2 Str (+4Str & -2 Dex would cause my Str and Dex items to switch). It is tempting since bonuses on combat maneuvers are nice and rare but I am not sure it is worth the loss of 2 feats.

PS: You do know that a human wielding a colossal+ spiked chain has the same reach as a human wielding a normal spiked chain right? Reach weapons simply double your natural reach.


I would like to point out that if you trip a flying creature they stall (fall 150ft the first round and 300ft each round thereafter until they Ref save). For those that I can't trip (greater than Huge with 39Str) then standstill would work.

@ddude987
I am taking Spirit Lion(Pounce instead of Fast Movement) and Wolf Totem(Improved Trip instead of Uncanny Dodge).
I cannot take Lion Totem(Run feat and +2 Hide instead of Fast Movement and Uncanny Dodge)


Thank you everyone for your help so far:
Extended Rage from Otyugh Hole
Try to squeeze in Stand Still feat
Possibly Illiteracy Flaw