Clash of the Op Levels. Shady and Rweird only.

[ShadowFireLance]

100ft away from each other?
No terrain?
Terrain?
Followers/Cohort?
Magic Items?
Items at all?

Anything else?

[drack]

*tags thread*
So what were you complaining about gods in gaiy's game shady? :smallconfused:

[ShadowFireLance]

*tags thread*
So what were you complaining about gods in gaiy's game shady? :smallconfused:

I see no "drack" in the "Shady and Rweird Only" Title. :smallwink:

Anywaaaays,
I'm complaining that I never feel secure in my power with you around.

[drack]

I see no "drack" in the "Shady and Rweird Only" Title. :smallwink:

Well soooory. :smalloffendedsasface:

[rweird]

We should have prep time (which can involve cohorts/followers/etc), I think my main v.s. your main (unless you'd rather just send your cohort if you think it is stronger, like Infernidyim), items allowed, followers/cohorts aren't in actual battle (summoned creatures are, though would be little besides cannon folder).

Don't know about terrain. I like it existing, makes things interesting.

Considering you PMed drack this, and he will kind of DM this, he should post.

If you don't feel secure like that, its fine, drack doesn't do crazy OP in games that aren't crazy OP.

[drack]

Considering you PMed drack this, and he will kind of DM this, he should post.
Fear not rweird, we're teasing each other :smalltongue:

If you don't feel secure like that, its fine, drack doesn't do crazy OP in games that aren't crazy OP.
This is true enough. While a character's optimization is a measure of pure power, I tend to believe a player's ability to optimize is better demonstrated by their ability to set the level of optimization exactly where they wish it.
I tend to make my characters themselves about mid-op and just play them with enough creativity that they ay as well be of a higher op.

[ShadowFireLance]

We should have prep time (which can involve cohorts/followers/etc), I think my main v.s. your main (unless you'd rather just send your cohort if you think it is stronger, like Infernidyim), items allowed, followers/cohorts aren't in actual battle (summoned creatures are, though would be little besides cannon folder).

Don't know about terrain. I like it existing, makes things interesting.

Considering you PMed drack this, and he will kind of DM this, he should post.

If you don't feel secure like that, its fine, drack doesn't do crazy OP in games that aren't crazy OP.


Alright, So Something to "Hide" in?
Castle?
Ruins?
I like a Volcano.
My main IS Andre. He's the only one in. =p The main is currently an unfinished Swarm king.

[rweird]

I'd like ruins or castle, volcano presumably would favor you too much. How should we make the map.

Should I wait for you to actually make your sheet playable or try to take Andre as the hideously unplayable thing he is?

How about 24 hours of prep time?

[ShadowFireLance]

I'd like ruins or castle, volcano presumably would favor you too much. How should we make the map.

Should I wait for you to actually make your sheet playable or try to take Andre as the hideously unplayable thing he is?

How about 24 hours of prep time?


Andre is fully playable. He's just far to terrifying to even think of defeating.

Ruins, So some cover, Any underground?

And 24 Hours is fine.

[rweird]

Eh, no, Andre is unplayable, yet pretty easy to defeat. I guess I'll take him as is, though might lose due to home-brew/misinterpretations of rules/impossible combinations.

He has never seemed in the least bit terrifying to me, he looks ridiculous, though I've thought of multiple ways to defeat him. :smalltongue:

How should we make the map?

[drack]

He has never seemed in the least bit terrifying to me, he looks ridiculous, though I've thought of multiple ways to defeat him. :smalltongue:

*cough cough*
*holds tongue*
:smalltongue:

[ShadowFireLance]

Eh, no, Andre is unplayable, yet pretty easy to defeat. I guess I'll take him as is, though might lose due to home-brew/misinterpretations of rules/impossible combinations.

He has never seemed in the least bit terrifying to me, he looks ridiculous, though I've thought of multiple ways to defeat him. :smalltongue:

How should we make the map?

So how much HAS drack told you?

I could make it, or we have drack do it.

[drack]

I don't think I said anything. :smallconfused:

Also map: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqrKlOMj1BaLdDBKcno4cG9rYXYyQ2tSWW9oQVVZT 1E&usp=drive_web#gid=0

Feel free to PM locations and readied actions.

[ShadowFireLance]

I don't think I said anything. :smallconfused:

Also map: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqrKlOMj1BaLdDBKcno4cG9rYXYyQ2tSWW9oQVVZT 1E&usp=drive_web#gid=0

Feel free to PM locations and readied actions.

needs permission.

[drack]

Well can't do that, but lets try making a copy.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgR0-mbnO-RNdFk0cG1NdjNaZ1dsOEs0Qm9lSE1CUmc#gid=0

[ShadowFireLance]

Can see it.

So I assume black is walls.
How thick/What material?

[rweird]

So how much HAS drack told you?

You had BoVD spells on it which weren't allowed, you buffed your character once approved in [unspecified] way, and that if I want it corrected, I should go over it with you, after all, it is invincible. Oh, and you think you're higher OP than him. :smalltongue:

The map is view only.

[drack]

You had BoVD spells on it

Oh yeah... I may have mentioned that.

You had BoVD spells on it
I should go over it with you, after all, it is invincible.

Yeah, pretty sure I said that too. Basic ground being rweird's character is already set in stone, so with your confidence of invincibility, him seeing it to help even things out to a point where you're both contented seems reasonable.

And map should be editable now.

[rweird]

You also mentioned you shook your head when you saw those. Apparently Shady says he doesn't need any spells though.

Still, I'll take it as the monstrosity it is (although that way, if it beats me, it wouldn't mean as much because it didn't follow all the limitations I did, and if I beat it, it'd mean more because I beat it when it had more limitations). Still, if I straighten it out, it would give me an advantage unless it truly is invincible.

[ShadowFireLance]

You also mentioned you shook your head when you saw those. Apparently Shady says he doesn't need any spells though.

Still, I'll take it as the monstrosity it is (although that way, if it beats me, it wouldn't mean as much because it didn't follow all the limitations I did, and if I beat it, it'd mean more because I beat it when it had more limitations). Still, if I straighten it out, it would give me an advantage unless it truly is invincible.

Actually, I followed every rule set in place.
We are on completely even terms.

[rweird]

Actually, I followed every rule set in place.
We are on completely even terms.

I'll skip the part where I point out a bunch of counterexamples. You ready?

[ShadowFireLance]

I'll skip the part where I point out a bunch of counterexamples. You ready?

Fairly. You?

I assume, Unless told otherwise, that the black stuff is basic walls 1ft thick stone/hay/mud.

[rweird]

Eh, I have to PM how I kill you to drack, will do so soon-ish.

[ShadowFireLance]

Eh, I have to PM how I kill you to drack, will do so soon-ish.

We'll see if you can even touch me.

[rweird]

Initiative: [roll0], will do mod later if I have too.

EDIT: Drack, can shady just be 30x30 like normal colossal things for sake of mapping?

[ShadowFireLance]

I always go first, cause I'm awesome.

Anyways, Effects that you need to deal with:

You are in an AMF by caster level 100.
You are Vulnerable to every energy attack.
Any Spell in the divination school ceases to function.
You can't see past 10'
And as a funny effect, The ground is always difficult terrain.

[rweird]

Drack, could you verify this all?

[ShadowFireLance]

Drack, could you verify this all?

If you do that to every post I make, it's going to take forever.

[rweird]

If you do that to every post I make, it's going to take forever.

Then forever it shall take.

[ShadowFireLance]

Then forever it shall take.

*sigh* :smallsigh:

[drack]

I assume, Unless told otherwise, that the black stuff is basic walls 1ft thick stone/hay/mud.

Was wood originally, lets go with stone. :smallbiggrin:


EDIT: Drack, can shady just be 30x30 like normal colossal things for sake of mapping?
His call, if he doesn't we can just imagine him anchored adjacent to the town never having cover or anywhere to hide.

Drack, could you verify this all?

First three I can off the top of my head, second two I can't without a reminder.

*sigh* :smallsigh:

Can't say you didn't see it coming.

[rweird]

Defenses: Won't need to roll.

Shady: Okay, what are your actions?

[drack]

Actually... now that I think on it I'm not 100% sure the AMF has that range unless shady is using the logic of "the radius of my body+10' " Or if he just has it ready-triggered to center on the first enemy to pop up.

[rweird]

Actually... now that I think on it I'm not 100% sure the AMF has that range unless shady is using the logic of "the radius of my body+10' " Or if he just has it ready-triggered to center on the first enemy to pop up.

In which case it still wouldn't hit me because I am not within 20 ft of his body.

[ShadowFireLance]

In which case it still wouldn't hit me because I am not within 20 ft of his body.

It's an effect of sorts, It's larger than normal, recall? We talked about this?

[drack]

We did, I recall, somewhere ~100', I just forget the specifics. :smalltongue:

Still curried beef and potato over rice is good, so I won't pester you over it.

[ShadowFireLance]

Still curried beef and potato over rice is good, so I won't pester you over it.

Hrm..Needs more salt. :smallbiggrin:

[drack]

Hrm..Needs more salt. :smallbiggrin:

Indeed that is one thing it certainly does not. Ginger/taumeric/Chinese black pepper/cumin and cayenne, though I don't doubt there was salt in the broth I used as a base.

[ShadowFireLance]

Indeed that is one thing it certainly does not. Ginger/taumeric/Chinese black pepper/cumin and cayenne, though I don't doubt there was salt in the broth I used as a base.

Ah...Cheese always helps rice and beef.
Hrm. Pepper..Maybe some chili flakes?

[drack]

Nah, it's akin to an Indian curry, not meant to be overwhelmed with American idioms of salt cheese and sugar. :smalltongue: I confess I didn't even bother with milk (curry usually uses coconut milk, though cow or goat works about as well), just didn't seem to fit.

More spices perhaps, though I'd have to go get some first. :smalltongue: (peppers, ect)

It's a weak taste that melts in your mouth, and that gets strong and rich a few seconds after you eat it.

[rweird]

Well, if it is shaped, it would be shaped in an impossible way, but I'll assume drack knows what he's doing (though shaped, widened, would be 4 20 ft cubes, enhanced apparently is homebrew you allowed, not the WotC thing which is ineligible to apply to AMF).

Shady: Again, what are your actions?

[drack]

I don't recall the specifics, I do recall that it was sizable, and didn't rouse overmuch interest in me which likely means it was legit.

[rweird]

I don't recall the specifics, I do recall that it was sizable, and didn't rouse overmuch interest in me which likely means it was legit.

Though it is shaped to exclude shady?

[drack]

If I recall right he was in it and just didn't mind.

[rweird]

If I recall right he was in it and just didn't mind.

I see... :smallconfused: :smalltongue: In that case...

[ShadowFireLance]

If I recall right he was in it and just didn't mind.

Because he's immune to Magic.

Alright, Actions;

i have six per turn, so casting Disjunction x6.

[drack]

:smallsigh: Shady, you see that part under antimagic field where it says "spell resistance: none", that means spell immunity does nothing against it. Spell immunity is to spell resistance as fire immunity is to fire resistance.

[rweird]

Okay, roll to destroy your AMF to effect me, you have a 1% chance/CL.

Drack: Does he have said ability, it is not listed on his sheet. I think he is thinking of the epic golem type of immunity though.

[ShadowFireLance]

:smallsigh: Shady, you see that part under antimagic field where it says "spell resistance: none", that means spell immunity does nothing against it. Spell immunity is to spell resistance as fire immunity is to fire resistance.

Not in my case, this isn't "Spell Immunity" As you call it.
I'm quite literally, Immune to spells.

[drack]

Not in my case, this isn't "Spell Immunity" As you call it.
I'm quite literally, Immune to spells.
:smallsigh: quote it.

Does he have said ability

which one?

[rweird]

which one?

The immune to spells thing. It isn't listed on his sheet save Golem Eye, which gives Immune to Magic (xenoalchemist).


Spell Immunity
A creature with spell immunity avoids the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. This works exactly like spell resistance, except that it cannot be overcome. Sometimes spell immunity is conditional or applies to only spells of a certain kind or level. Spells that do not allow spell resistance are not affected by spell immunity.

-http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm

Ability in question:


Level: 5
Body Slot: Eyes (Su)
Monster Requirement: Any creature with immunity to magic
Example Monsters: Flesh golem, will-o-wisp

A golem's eye implanted in your forehead gives you immunity to magic. At the time of surgery the xenoalchemist must select two or three spells of 5th level or below to which you are not immune. These spells disrupt your spell immunity for 3 rounds if they hit you.

[rweird]

Am I correct in this regard, and shady cannot cast if in the AMF, and if shaped so he isn't, must roll to destroy his AMF before he can hit me with Disjunction?

[drack]

Correct, I PMed him as much before you got the golem eye stuff, so waiting on him I suppose.

[ShadowFireLance]

Am I correct in this regard, and shady cannot cast if in the AMF, and if shaped so he isn't, must roll to destroy his AMF before he can hit me with Disjunction?

Fine.
Dropping it Free action, Casting, then bringing it back up again. All in the space of two seconds.

[rweird]

Counterspelling all six with Reaving Dispel, (I presume your CL 34 as said, and therefore I need not roll). May saves for your items and stuff unless you have a counter to the counter. Also, make six fortitude saves, if any fails you're stunned for 1d6 rounds (DC low enough you just need to check for 1s).

[ShadowFireLance]

Counterspelling all six with Reaving Dispel, (I presume your CL 34 as said, and therefore I need not roll). May saves for your items and stuff unless you have a counter to the counter. Also, make six fortitude saves, if any fails you're stunned for 1d6 rounds (DC low enough you just need to check for 1s).

Recall I no need to roll for any save thats not above 500?

Alright then, Simple enough, Countering it with more actions.
Quickened Intensified Meteor Strike.

Then if that's failed, I'll just wait for you to do something.

[rweird]

Meteor Strike, what does it do? Do you mean meteor swarm? Anyways, you don't have any of the required feats (empower, maximize, quicken, or intensify, much less the 11+ level spell slot for it).

Disjunction is the only spell you have listed knowing too.

Remember, you've lost all your buffs now.

[drack]

Is this "countering" countering, or next round?

[ShadowFireLance]

Meteor Strike, what does it do? Do you mean meteor swarm? Anyways, you don't have any of the required feats (empower, maximize, quicken, or intensify, much less the 11+ level spell slot for it).

Disjunction is the only spell you have listed knowing too.

Remember, you've lost all your buffs now.


Alright then. You still can't actually hit me with Reaving Dispel, recall.

[rweird]

Alright then. You still can't actually hit me with Reaving Dispel, recall.

I don't, I counterspell your disjunction with it, and the disjunction hits you. Again, what about your "meteor strike"?

Reaving Dispel doesn't allow SR either so I could hit you with it (you lowered your AMF to cast).

Anyways, is it my turn?

[ShadowFireLance]

I don't, I counterspell your disjunction with it, and the disjunction hits you. Again, what about your "meteor strike"?

Reaving Dispel doesn't allow SR either so I could hit you with it (you lowered your AMF to cast).

Anyways, is it my turn?


I'm maintaining that The freaking IMMUNITY to MAGIC Functions as immunity, and not infinate SR.

Also, The Spell is Supernatural ability, so not functional to SR either.

[rweird]

I'm maintaining that The freaking IMMUNITY to MAGIC Functions as immunity, and not infinate SR.

Also, The Spell is Supernatural ability [citation needed], so not functional to SR either.

Both me, drack, and the SRD maintain you are wrong. Still, I need to know what meteor strike does for me to know what I need to do about it. I don't see how no SR is relevant to me not knowing what spell you cast or if it'll do anything.

Drack, can shady even cast "meteor strike" without any of the required things listed on your sheet?

Is it my turn?

[drack]

SRD is clear on immunity to magic. You've showed me the wordings, and none vary greatly enough to offer any greater immunity then that listed as such.

So, "Counter-spell", or counter-spell.

Also rweird, how are we getting actions for the reavings?

[ShadowFireLance]

SRD is clear on immunity to magic. You've showed me the wordings, and none vary greatly enough to offer any greater immunity then that listed as such.

So, "Counter-spell", or counter-spell.

Also rweird, how are we getting actions for the reavings?

*sigh*

I give up on that.

[drack]

Dont' declare it each time, it takes out the drama.

[rweird]

Drack: Battlemagic Perceptions.

Shady: Okay, I assume that you aren't Meteor Striking after all.

Moving up next to you, attacking.

To hit: Automatically hits.
Damage: [roll0] bludgeoning and [roll1] Int damage (undead are only immune to drain/physical ability damage). Also, DC 956 will save or be destroyed. Remember, Undivine Spark only makes it count as a 20, not a natural 20, and pariah doesn't allow automatic hits that way either.

[drack]

If I recall that lets you identify them, which helps you counter, but it doesn't give you extra actions with which to cast. Where are those coming from? :smallconfused:

[ShadowFireLance]

If I recall that lets you identify them, which helps you counter, but it doesn't give you extra actions with which to cast. Where are those coming from? :smallconfused:

How is he getting a Will save that freaking high?
And how is he dealing said int damage?

[rweird]

Will Save: Prep time and optimization, and knowing what type of weakness to exploit.

Never mind the Int damage, forgot which weapon I was using. The staff doesn't do Int damage.

Drack:
With a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell level) you can even ascertain the spell being cast.
This determination happens quickly enough that you can
attempt to counter the spell as a free action.

Look up the spell (heroes of battle) if you doubt it, probably could find it online too.

[drack]

How is he getting a Will save that freaking high?
And how is he dealing said int damage?

It's legit


Drack:

Look up the spell (heroes of battle) if you doubt it, probably could find it online too.

"If you counter a spell in this manner, the battlemagic perception spell ends immediately."
That and countering is to cancel his spell with one to the same effect. With improved counterspell you could use reaving with it, but it would still target one of his disjunctions, not him himself. :smallwink:

[rweird]

It's legit

:smallcool:


"If you counter a spell in this manner, the battlemagic perception spell ends immediately."
That and countering is to cancel his spell with one to the same effect. With improved counterspell you could use reaving with it, but it would still target one of his disjunctions, not him himself. :smallwink:

Reaving Dispel allows you to redirect the spell as if you cast it if you counterspell with it (I have a few other abilities that do the same thing too, and I redirect it at shady). I have multiple perceptions, enough to counter six disjunctions, I've countered a lot more spells in my counter-fight with the leader of the Godlands.

[drack]

Well you may attempt to redirect one at him by such

Counter-fight: yup, that, you claim, was through excessive abuse of time stop, though, you having not declared it until after the fact, in hindsight I should have asked you first.

[rweird]

Well, we've resolved the counterspell issue. I can (just not quite as easily, no noticeable difference). I'll explain after the fight what I did. Just know its legit until then.

[drack]

Yup, though by first line of reeving dispel "Reaving dispel functions like dispel magic, except that the maximum caster level on your dispel check is +25 instead of +10", so it's an opposed CL check with rweird's capped at 25? :smallconfused:

[rweird]

Yup, though by first line of reeving dispel "Reaving dispel functions like dispel magic, except that the maximum caster level on your dispel check is +25 instead of +10", so it's an opposed CL check with rweird's capped at 25? :smallconfused:

Several things:
1) I think I misremembered Improved Counterspell and thought that it is greater than or equal too, not greater than, and thought that I'd counterspell it that way (mistaken). I would just use Srinshee's Spell Shift+Heightened Greater Dispel Magic for the exact same effect but not having to role. If its to late (understandable), I'd make the rolls.
2) Why is counterspelling an opposed CL check? :smallconfused:

[drack]

Counterspell can be done two ways. One where you cast the same spell and they both cancel (or spell of the same school with improved), the other is to cast a dispelling spell. If you counter with reeving the first way it just cancels, you gotta use the second way to reflect with it.

[rweird]

Well, I don't seeing as I have a second way to do the exact same thing (Srinshee's Spell Shift). And with dispels, I never knew you made opposed CL checks.

[drack]

that would do it, but yes, normally /cl checks. :smalltongue:

[rweird]

So can I Heightened Dispel or should I roll (won't matter in the end).

[drack]

You can choose, after all the choice is yours. Heightening guarantees success, rolling gives you 1d20+25 Vs 1d20 +shady's CL

[rweird]

Heightening. Not sure why you think that dispels are opposed CL checks to begin with though.:smallconfused:

[drack]

Read dispell magic, or any variation thereof. When countering, one can always counter with dispel magic, but one makes the opposed CL check when doing so.

[rweird]

Read dispell magic, or any variation thereof. When countering, one can always counter with dispel magic, but one makes the opposed CL check when doing so.

Dispel Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm)


One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make a dispel check (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +10) against the spell or against each ongoing spell currently in effect on the object or creature. The DC for this dispel check is 11 + the spell’s caster level. If you succeed on a particular check, that spell is dispelled; if you fail, that spell remains in effect.

The word opposed does not appear in the text.

[drack]

Sorry, opposed CL, CL against 11+CL, rather similar. I had meant it more that you're rolling 1d20+25 against a number 1-20+his CL, was too lazy to check the number. More that CL establishes the prevalence of your magic, and your magics are frighting against each other so it's a contentment of CLs. Simple way to remember it. But yes the one CL check comes pre-rolled.