[3.5] Sorcerer based Ultimate Magus

[Valwyn]

Is it posible to make a sorcerer Ultimate Magus that gets 9th level spells? I know you could just go with wizard and be done with it, but I like sorcerers better. :smallbiggrin:

Could you use Precocious Apprentice to enter the class with Sor 4/Wiz 1? I'm not exactly sure how it works for the purpose of early entry. (Normally I don't like early entry methods, so I don't know much about them, but I think it fits the character concept).

[Psyren]

Beguiler is basically a type of sorcerer (they're even called sorcerers in this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070214)) and they are Int-based, so they go much better with a Wizard than a standard Sorcerer would. I'd use them instead.

Getting 9ths on one side (prepared or spontaneous) is easy - well, it's much easier on the prepared side - but dual 9s is just about impossible without lots of cheese.

[Valwyn]

Beguilers sound cool (never actually played one before), but they lack the flexibility of choosing your own list.

I'm not after dual 9s, just sorcerer 9s.

[Psyren]

Beguilers sound cool (never actually played one before), but they lack the flexibility of choosing your own list.

They know their entire list though, which is actually a lot more flexible in practice. Not many sorcerers are likely to pick Veil for instance, but you can cast one whenever you need it without feeling like you missed out on something to get it.

To answer the second question in your OP though, yes you can use Precocious Apprentice to enter the PrC early.

[Valwyn]

That's true, but you still can't really choose your spells without Apprentice (Spellcaster) or other methods. I guess you could still get into Sand Shaper or get a Mother Cyst, though.

Thanks for the answer. :smallsmile:

[Lafaellar]

I think one could alter the class prereqs to call for more sorc and less wizard levels. I think you need 5 levels because of skill rank requirement and it says you need 1st level arcane spell caster without preperation (sorc) and 2nd level arcane spell caster with preperation (wiz). Which ends you with sorc 1, wiz 3 and 1 level you can either put into wiz or sorc.

If you switch the 2 prereqs you could use sorc 4, wiz 1 and should be able to hit 9th level sorc spells. Since most people agree on the fact, that Wiz is a tier 1 and sorc is a tier 2 class, there shouldn't be any balance issues.

[eviljav]

I've been wanting to do this too.

Basic stuff I've found:

1). Check with your DM. He'll probably let you switch it to be "spontaneous second level, prepared first" if you ask, since Wizards are generally considered stronger that Sorcerers anyway.

2). Versatile spellcaster (Races of Dragon) + Heightened spell metamagics
(Both of these are useful to have anyway)
But check with your DM

3). Precocious apprentice (from Complete Arcane)
Not as useful long term.
But check if this is okay with your DM

4). Arcane preparation (Complete Arcane)
lets you prepare a spell in a spontaneous slot, which should qualify.
Not as useful for someone who can do prepared and spontaneous anyway.
Check with your DM

So anyway, check with your DM.

[Waker]

1). Check with your DM. He'll probably let you switch it to be "spontaneous second level, prepared first" if you ask, since Wizards are generally considered stronger that Sorcerers anyway.
If I were going to change anything about the UM, it would be the specific requirement of being a prepared caster with a spellbook. I found that particular restriction to be annoying. I would rule it to just read prepared caster, spontaneous caster...