Every Item, Spell, Feat, and Skill In the Game -- Is There Anything You Can't Do?

[Rubik]

As per the title, if you had every (even vaguely useful) item, spell (epic and non-), feat, and skill in the game, and you had access to various class and racial abilities through 123 levels of illithid savant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030608a), all stacked onto a psion with font of power and the spell-to-power erudite's learning mechanic, is there anything you are flat-out barred from doing?

Assume for this exercise that the sarrukh's Manipulate Form ability is unavailable due to Pun Pun locking it away from use by everyone.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Assume for this exercise that the sarrukh's Manipulate Form ability is unavailable due to Pun Pun locking it away from use by everyone.

Well, you're flat-out barred from becoming Pun-Pun, then! :smalltongue:

[Rubik]

Well, you're flat-out barred from becoming Pun-Pun, then! :smalltongue:That's actually why I'm interested in this. I mean, could you become as powerful as Pun Pun without that one ability? Nigh infinitely powerful, with few or no limits?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

That's actually why I'm interested in this. I mean, could you become as powerful as Pun Pun without that one ability? Nigh infinitely powerful, with few or no limits?

I'm honestly not sure. Does this theoretical build allow us to have infinite feats? Not just every feat, but every feat that can be stacked an unlimited number of times? Or are we limited to simple one instance of every feat?

[Rubik]

I'm honestly not sure. Does this theoretical build allow us to have infinite feats? Not just every feat, but every feat that can be stacked an unlimited number of times? Or are we limited to simple one instance of every feat?My build has just under 800 feats, and I could get way more, if I want and/or need them. I have fewer than 500 being used, and that's with a ridiculous number of Extra Musics, Extra Rages, Fonts of Inspiration, and so on just to pad it out.

There aren't that many useful feats.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

My build has just under 800 feats, and I could get way more, if I want and/or need them. I have fewer than 500 being used, and that's with a ridiculous number of Extra Musics, Extra Rages, Fonts of Inspiration, and so on just to pad it out.

There aren't that many useful feats.

The reason I asked is that we have to be able to have Assume Supernatural Ability a good many times to be able to combine a ton of fun monster abilities.

We're still banned from a few things though. I believe Pun-Pun's ability to attack anyone anywhere in the multiverse from a single location, for example, required mixing and matching Supernatural abilities from several monsters and putting them onto one thing. I'm not sure we can replicate that without Manipulate Form.

There are probably other things we can't do, but it's hard looking at all of D&D in combination and going "what can't we manage?" :smallbiggrin:

[Rubik]

The reason I asked is that we have to be able to have Assume Supernatural Ability a good many times to be able to combine a ton of fun monster abilities.

We're still banned from a few things though. I believe Pun-Pun's ability to attack anyone anywhere in the multiverse from a single location, for example, required mixing and matching Supernatural abilities from several monsters and putting them onto one thing. I'm not sure we can replicate that without Manipulate Form.

There are probably other things we can't do, but it's hard looking at all of D&D in combination and going "what can't we manage?" :smallbiggrin:Assume Supernatural Ability should work with this build, too, since it has access to Shapechange (and it uses Reserves of Strength to break the level limit, as well as a manifester level of, at minimum, 700), as well as the hagunemnon's Alter Shape ability as a class ability due to illithid savant. Also, illithid savant itself grants all of those racial abilities as class abilities, so they're available no matter what form I'm in, assuming I have access to whatever body parts might be required.

[GoblinArchmage]

is there anything you are flat-out barred from doing?

Yes, you still won't get laid.

[Rubik]

Yes, you still won't get laid.That's what Charm Person Monster is for. And Diplomacy. And possibly Bluff or Dominate Person Monster.

[Der_DWSage]

You still won't be able to see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

[Rubik]

You still won't be able to see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch.Don't be silly. there's a reason the gods invented divination -- and even double-focused specialist wizards keep it, which is why they're still tier 1.

[Yuki Akuma]

If you had every epic spell in the game, bearing in mind that epic spells are designed to be customisable and are explicitly able to create new species with new abilities... Yes. Yes you can do everything.

Duh?

Create a new species with the ability you want as a supernatural ability. Shapechange into it with Assume Supernatural Ability. Presto! You can do the thing you want.

[TuggyNE]

If you had every epic spell in the game, bearing in mind that epic spells are designed to be customisable and are explicitly able to create new species with new abilities... Yes. Yes you can do everything.

Duh?

Create a new species with the ability you want as a supernatural ability. Shapechange into it with Assume Supernatural Ability. Presto! You can do the thing you want.

I suppose it depends on whether not-yet-existing epic spells can be considered to be "in the game". :smallwink: Know what I mean?

[AMFV]

Well if we're talking real optimization how much effort we spend and how fast we get there are the important factors, given an infinite amount of levels anything is possible, but it's harder to get the same results at lower level with less investment. Optimization is achieving your goals with as little investment as possible.

[Erik Vale]

I suppose it depends on whether not-yet-existing epic spells can be considered to be "in the game". :smallwink: Know what I mean?

They are in the game, for the game has rules for making them, therefore by having every spell, you have every permutation of every spell you could possibly wan't as a epic spell.

With which you create something with the Sarrukh's Manipulate Form ability without being a Sarrukh, getting around Pun-Pun, then you become Pun-Pun's replacement, and lay down stricter rules, if Pun-Pun doesn't notice you first and kill you and tighten up his ship by killing all spellcasters even thinking of taking epic spellcasting.

[Yuki Akuma]

I suppose it depends on whether not-yet-existing epic spells can be considered to be "in the game". :smallwink: Know what I mean?

Even if they aren't, he has the Epic Spellcasting feat and enough infinite money loops to make as many epic spells as he wants.

[TuggyNE]

They are in the game, for the game has rules for making them

Ah, there's your problem. The game no more has rules for making epic spells than it has for spell research, custom wondrous items, or new traits: which is to say, it must all be specifically approved before use, and is assumed to be impossible without that.

[Rubik]

I really haven't looked into epic spellcasting and the researching thereof for the simple fact that I've only played in a single one-shot epic game, and epic spellcasting was not allowed, so I'm not overly familiar with the rules thereof.

Is there a way to create an epic spell that quickly researches other spells (epic or non-) for you? With enough Leadership-based mitigation, you could even have it do so at no cost...possibly.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, you'll have vow of poverty and vow of peace, which will be a problem. You'll also have all manner of evil and exalted feats, which is something of a puzzler.

Additionally, there's the cursed items....You'd need to make a lot of ego checks with that many intelligent items.

[Rubik]

Well, you'll have vow of poverty and vow of peace, which will be a problem. You'll also have all manner of evil and exalted feats, which is something of a puzzler.

Additionally, there's the cursed items....You'd need to make a lot of ego checks with that many intelligent items.I *did* say "vaguely useful." I don't really count most cursed items (other than those used explicitly for their negative properties, such as dust of sneezing and choking) as such, and I *definitely* don't count the sacred vows as such.

[Malimar]

There are things deities can do that can only be reversed by deities of equal or higher divine rank. For example, you can't unkill somebody killed by a deity with the Hand of Death Salient Divine Ability, and you can't uncurse somebody cursed by the Lay Curse SDA.

...Unless any of the small handful of tricks that can give you divine ranks are allowed, in which case never mind.

[Rubik]

There are things deities can do that can only be reversed by deities of equal or higher divine rank. For example, you can't unkill somebody killed by a deity with the Hand of Death Salient Divine Ability, and you can't uncurse somebody cursed by the Lay Curse SDA.

...Unless any of the small handful of tricks that can give you divine ranks are allowed, in which case never mind.That's a fair assessment, yes.

Also, you need turtleducks (http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/238/0/1/Avatarverse__Turtle_Duck_by_smiling_fox.jpg) for your avatar.

[Malimar]

That's a fair assessment, yes.

Also, you need turtleducks (http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/238/0/1/Avatarverse__Turtle_Duck_by_smiling_fox.jpg) for your avatar.

D'aww, is kyoot!

[Juntao112]

As per the title, if you had every (even vaguely useful) item, spell (epic and non-), feat, and skill in the game, and you had access to various class and racial abilities through 123 levels of illithid savant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030608a), all stacked onto a psion with font of power and the spell-to-power erudite's learning mechanic, is there anything you are flat-out barred from doing?

See why kids like Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

[ryu]

See why kids like Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

Covered. Epic divination.

[Gemini476]

There are things deities can do that can only be reversed by deities of equal or higher divine rank. For example, you can't unkill somebody killed by a deity with the Hand of Death Salient Divine Ability, and you can't uncurse somebody cursed by the Lay Curse SDA.

...Unless any of the small handful of tricks that can give you divine ranks are allowed, in which case never mind.

...On a similar note, Pun-Pun has NI Divine Rank. He also has the Aleax's Singular Enemy(Pun-Pun), so he cannot be harmed by anyone else.

The only ways I know of to get Divine Rank by RAW are the Dragon Ascendant's 12th level ability (become a quasi-diety, aka. Divine Rank 0) and some item somewhere that turns you into an Atropal, maybe?

Oh, or you could have a deity give you some of theirs. Seeing as you can get an Ice Assassin of deities (which is how Pun-Pun did it, incidentally), that's a no-brainer.

And no, you can't get an Ice Assassin of Pun-Pun. He has the powers from Vecna-Blooded, and therefore cannot be found through any kind of divination, as well as having his history before grabbing that ability erased from history. In other words, nobody knows that he exists unless he interacts with them.

[Tyndmyr]

I *did* say "vaguely useful." I don't really count most cursed items (other than those used explicitly for their negative properties, such as dust of sneezing and choking) as such, and I *definitely* don't count the sacred vows as such.

They all have their place. I've seen an utterly obnoxious VoP char played...with ludicrous DC optimization, you can very effectively control the behavior of everyone around you.

Definitely hits the "vaguely useful" benchmark for any reasonable standard of it, it's just situational. The same is true of a great many feats.

Hell, Intelligent weapons can be quite handy, because, well, magical weapon with abilities and stuff. It's just that even if each is individually useful, having all of them is not necessarily a massive boost in power, because most chars have limited ability to wield weapons.

[CockroachTeaParty]

You still won't be able to see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

Congrats, you won the thread. Have an Internet.

[Chronos]

I can't imagine that it would take a very high Alchemy DC to analyze a sample and conclude that it's full of sugar.

[ryu]

Yes, but can you understand why it's called applejacks when it doesn't taste like apple?

[Rubik]

Yes, but can you understand why it's called applejacks when it doesn't taste like apple?Ah resent that remark.

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/005/6/6/mlp__angry_applejack____by_maxmontezuma-d5qjpzq.png

[ryu]

Not the horse. The cereal.

[Rubik]

Not the horse. The cereal.And how would you know that she doesn't taste like apples?

[ryu]

Hasn't she been bitten on the show at some point? Ask the insect/bat/whatever did it. Maybe she does despite the cereal not.

[Hyena]

If you have literally every feat, you die.

[Jormengand]

Kill the DM. Go on, you have every ability in the game. You can do it. C'mon!

[TuggyNE]

If you have literally every feat, you die.

Besides DrMag junk, then. :smallyuk:

[Rubik]

Okay, let's say all the feats, chosen judiciously. Nothing that would cause you to insta-die or have deleterious effects on your character (such as Vow of Poverty) or would otherwise be annoying.

All the feats you care to eat.