[PF] Regeneration + Diehard

[Baron Malkar]

What would happen to a character with a Pearly White Spindle (Ioun Stone) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun-stones/pearly-white-spindle-ioun-stone), the Diehard Feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/diehard---final), and Deathless Initiate (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deathless-initiate-combat) when reduced to -Con modifier HP given the line in diehard that says "If your negative hit points are equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you immediately die."?

[Bhaakon]

That character dies, and stays dead barring a raise dead spell or other resurrection effect.

The ioun stones works as a ring of regeneration, which explicitly works only on living wearers. Characters who have dropped to -Con score HP and died are non-living by definition, so the regeneration ends.

Edit: Missed the "modifier" part. In that case, the regeneration continues, either offsetting the 1 damage if you take strenuous actions or, eventually, bringing you back into positives. You continue to benefit from the Deathless Initiate bonuses as long as you have a hit point total between -1 and -Con score.

[Spuddles]

You die when you hit negative con modifier hit points. The ioun stone doesn't actually give you the monster ability regenerate, but lets you regenerate hp as the ring of regeneration. The ring of regeneration lets you recover a trivial amount of hp over time, but doesn't actually give you capitol R Regeneration.

[Baron Malkar]

If you did somehow acquire the monster ability Regeneration then what would happen?

[Bhaakon]

If you did somehow acquire the monster ability Regeneration then what would happen?

That would be up to the DM, since the two weren't designed to work together and therefore directly conflict as written. I think that most DMs would rule that monstrous regeneration overrides Die Hard's death clause.

[Spuddles]

That would be up to the DM, since the two weren't designed to work together and therefore directly conflict as written. I think that most DMs would rule that monstrous regeneration overrides Die Hard's death clause.

Well, they're arguably part of a system where they SHOULD work together, given how you can add fighter levels to a troll.

[grarrrg]

Well, they're arguably part of a system where they SHOULD work together, given how you can add fighter levels to a troll.

The main issue is that Diehard states the "-CON HP you die" clause.
Is it just a reminder of the normal 'dead' rule? Or is it there to prevent "shenanigans"?

If it's just a reminder, than Monster Regeneration wins, and you can fight LOOOONG after you should have been dead.

If it's there for anti-shenanigans, then you be dead.


I'm leaning towards "reminder".

[Erik Vale]

They may conflict, but Regeneration prevents death, and Diehard says die, which causes death, which is prevented by Regeneration, so Regeneration triumphs.

[TuggyNE]

I'm leaning towards "reminder".

Same.

Note that 3.5's version prevents this wacky state: you survive, unambiguously.

[Keneth]

The ioun stone/ring of regeneration don't do squat for you, they're not actually Regeneration. If you have Regeneration and Diehard, you can keep fighting for however long you want, because Regeneration prevents you from dying until it is turned off by appropriate damage.