Who is the god of good aligned mass murderers? [Archive]

Auramis

2013-10-03, 10:55 PM

Just curious, what god can someone worship, if they are a good aligned mass murder ? I mean adventurer.

If you're a mass murderer, I doubt you'll be of good alignment for long.

Closest you're getting is Heironeous, since he's a god of war. There's no such god for actual mass murder/slaughter for good characters, though, since that's distinctly evil. Erythnul is the god for that.

Namfuak

2013-10-03, 10:57 PM

Just curious, what god can someone worship, if they are a good aligned mass murder ? I mean adventurer.

St. Cuthbert is pretty into mass murdering undead. Corellon Larethian wouldn't bat an eye if you were to go on a quick orc genocide. No matter what you do, Ao doesn't give a hoot.

Harry

2013-10-03, 11:27 PM

Just curious, what god can someone worship, if they are a good aligned mass murder ? I mean adventurer.

pelor the burning hate

Waker

2013-10-03, 11:30 PM

Kord is another decent choice. Aside from being a god of strength, he also loves killing dragons and wrasslin' with giants, so he would definitely be popular with the barbarian and fighter types.

Kuulvheysoon

2013-10-03, 11:49 PM

Garl Glittergold wouldn't give a hoot if the victims were kobolds, more likely than not.

Rubik

2013-10-04, 12:37 AM

Heironeous apparently likes forcing his clerics on mass-murder sprees against the peasantry as Polymorphed ettins.

Alleran

2013-10-04, 03:53 AM

Cayden Cailean?

Mystral

2013-10-04, 04:48 AM

Just curious, what god can someone worship, if they are a good aligned mass murder ? I mean adventurer.

Which setting?

Zanos

2013-10-04, 04:58 AM

If you're a mass murderer, I doubt you'll be of good alignment for long.

Closest you're getting is Heironeous, since he's a god of war. There's no such god for actual mass murder/slaughter for good characters, though, since that's distinctly evil. Erythnul is the god for that.
I disagree. Many D&D gods subscribe to both Good Is Not Nice and Fantastic Racism, which leads to condoning and encouraging behavior that would distinctly be labeled evil in any rational morality setting. Even a god that hates undead and orders them destroyed on sight promotes the destruction of Necropolitans, which can be good-aligned and are typically minding their own business.

hamishspence

2013-10-04, 06:02 AM

Story

2013-10-04, 06:26 AM

Actually Necropolitan says nothing about alignment.

hamishspence

2013-10-04, 06:38 AM

Maybe it's the sample necropolitan in the book, rather than the template itself, that mentions it? I do clearly remember the words "Any nongood" somewhere with respect to them.

Talderas

2013-10-04, 06:46 AM

Any of the good gods really, so long as you're happy murdering undead, demons, and people who don't look like you. Heironeous, Pelor, take your pick.

JaronK

I've never liked the term murder hobo for adventurers, mostly because the term murder is extremely inaccurate in the context. Most of the killings adventurers do are justifiable homocides if homocides is construed to mean sentient creatures rather than just humans.

Kalmageddon

2013-10-04, 06:53 AM

Look at that joke go!
I've never seen one fly so high over people's head!

Steward

2013-10-04, 06:56 AM

Look at that joke go!
I've never seen one fly so high over people's head!

To be fair, "adventurers are mass murderers" is a joke that gets made about 10,000,000 times per day on this forum, so many posters just duck whenever they see it coming. :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, use Google site search on giantitp.com and look for the phrase "murder hobo".

Story

2013-10-04, 07:13 AM

Maybe it's the sample necropolitan in the book, rather than the template itself, that mentions it? I do clearly remember the words "Any nongood" somewhere with respect to them.

The sample Necropolitan is true neutral. No mention of "any nongood" that I can see.

grarrrg

2013-10-04, 07:21 AM

Cayden Cailean?

I thought he was the god of Ale and Whores (http://www.cafepress.com/pvp)?

Talderas

2013-10-04, 07:25 AM

Look at that joke go!
I've never seen one fly so high over people's head!

It's a terrible joke. For a phrase to be a joke, it needs to hold a reasonable element of truth otherwise it's just a nonsensical phrase that isn't at all descriptive of the subject of which its making fun. The murder portion of murder hobo doesn't really hold much truth to it unless you start applying incorrect meanings to a word.

Big Fau

2013-10-04, 07:28 AM

To be fair, "adventurers are mass murderers" is a joke that gets made about 10,000,000 times per day on this forum, so many posters just duck whenever they see it coming. :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, use Google site search on giantitp.com and look for the phrase "murder hobo".

Alternatively, homicidal nomadic kleptomaniacs.

Gemini476

2013-10-04, 07:31 AM

I've never liked the term murder hobo for adventurers, mostly because the term murder is extremely inaccurate in the context. Most of the killings adventurers do are justifiable homocides if homocides is construed to mean sentient creatures rather than just humans.

"You open the door, and see within some Orc guards who are playing poker. They have not seen you yet, so you may be able to-"
"Do they detect as Evil?"
"...Yes."
"CLEAVE AND SMITE, SMITE AND CLEAVE"

Talderas

2013-10-04, 07:33 AM

Alternatively, homicidal nomadic kleptomaniacs.

Hobo is decently accurate when defining adventurers. Hobos generally travelled from place to place seeking work and had no residence to their name. The one difference is that while hobos were generally penniless, adventurers are wealthy.

Story

2013-10-04, 08:02 AM

Hobo is decently accurate when defining adventurers. Hobos generally travelled from place to place seeking work and had no residence to their name. The one difference is that while hobos were generally penniless, adventurers are wealthy.

I suppose a good comparison would be those consultants who are out flying places 5 days a week. Adventurers are homeless not because they can't afford a house but because they need to travel for work.

Trasilor

2013-10-04, 08:19 AM

I suppose a good comparison would be those consultants who are out flying places 5 days a week. Adventurers are homeless not because they can't afford a house but because they need to travel for work.

That's odd, I always thought adventurers were homeless because they know the city guard is incompetent. I mean, why else would every city require PC's to do everything the local constable should be able to handle? :smallamused:

Actually, I like it when my PC's actually have a home to call home.

Gemini476

2013-10-04, 09:06 AM

I suppose a good comparison would be those consultants who are out flying places 5 days a week. Adventurers are homeless not because they can't afford a house but because they need to travel for work.

I figured that they were homeless because having a home and/or family only gives the DM some targets to aim for.

As for the murder, that's more part of the mentality that it is perfectly fine for the PCs to viciously kill those kobolds, never mind that they were only attacking you because you were intruding on their home. Or that it's alright to kill anyone of race X because, 'know, "Always Chaotic Evil".

Dragon with scales of a non-shiny color? Let's run into his home, kill him, and take all his stuff.

Not to mention stuff like those caves near the Keep on the Borderlands, where the adventurers are expected to go into the various lairs and kill the inhabitants for existing. Why? Because they want the gold, dammit.

Doc_Maynot

2013-10-04, 09:15 AM

pelor the burning hate

Any of the good gods really, so long as you're happy murdering undead, demons, and people who don't look like you. Heironeous, Pelor, take your pick.

JaronK

Pelor!
Pelor!
Pelor was a God
I mean, he was a Demon God
Or maybe he was just a Demon
But he was still Pelor!
Pelor!
Pelor!

Burninating the countryside,
Burninating the peasants
Burninating all the peoples

And their thatched-roof cottages!
Thatched-roof cottages!

Whoa, this has wicked dueling guitar solos
It's like Burning Hate versus Pelor (as of) late over here
Go Burning Hate!
Go Burning Hate!!
Burning Hate wins!!!

When all the land is in ruins
And burnination has forsaken the countryside
Only one guy will remain
My money's on
Pelor!
Pelor!

And the Pelor comes in the night . . .

Sorry, had to. Good or Evil, he's always my god of choice. Kudos if you get the clearly altered song reference.

Chronos

2013-10-04, 09:19 AM

Quoth Gemini476:

"You open the door, and see within some Orc guards who are playing poker. They have not seen you yet, so you may be able to-"
"Do they detect as Evil?"
"...Yes."
"CLEAVE AND SMITE, SMITE AND CLEAVE"
But there's generally some more context to that, isn't there? They're guards: What are they guarding? If they're guarding the evil overlord who's trying to conquer the world and grind it under his heel, then it's a pretty safe bet that the orcs need killing even if you don't use Detect Evil on them first.

dascarletm

2013-10-04, 09:20 AM

Story

2013-10-04, 09:21 AM

I figured that they were homeless because having a home and/or family only gives the DM some targets to aim for.

As for the murder, that's more part of the mentality that it is perfectly fine for the PCs to viciously kill those kobolds, never mind that they were only attacking you because you were intruding on their home. Or that it's alright to kill anyone of race X because, 'know, "Always Chaotic Evil".

Dragon with scales of a non-shiny color? Let's run into his home, kill him, and take all his stuff.

Not to mention stuff like those caves near the Keep on the Borderlands, where the adventurers are expected to go into the various lairs and kill the inhabitants for existing. Why? Because they want the gold, dammit.

Do people really do that? As I understand it, there's usually at least some justification in the plothook, like "kobolds have been raiding local caravans, go make them stop". Sure it'd be more ethical to diplomance them all, but the mechanics don't really support that well.

Slipperychicken

2013-10-04, 09:34 AM

"Murderhobo" is a thing because the majority of PCs are homeless (whether because they don't have a backstory, or their players simply wanted to spend more of their resources on combat prowess rather than housing), highly averse to spending money on anything which doesn't increase their combat abilities, highly predisposed to use lethal violence as the solution to any problem (as can be demonstrated by many, many stories in Shadowrun about PCs shooting up donut shops to avoid paying for food), and also their munchkinry-enabled murder skills (a result of pouring all character resources into killing things).

An excellent example is a Shadowrun PC in a current game; this guy is a literal ugly homeless person with no social skills or backstory to speak of, no ability to do anything other than fight and dumpster-dive for food, has at least two swords and a gun (which he wears at all times due to not having a safe place to store them), is supernaturally skilled with both firearms and katanas, and all too eager to kill people even when scaring them off would suffice.

[Pelor = Trogdor]

That's amazing. A suitable theme for the Burning Hate.

Fax Celestis

2013-10-04, 09:36 AM

I thought he was the god of Ale and Whores (http://www.cafepress.com/pvp)?

Gotta pay for the hookers and blow ale and whores somehow.

Adventurers: D&D's movie stars.

Alternatively, homicidal nomadic kleptomaniacs.

I prefer the term "proactive archaeologist".

DungeonDelver

2013-10-04, 09:39 AM

I do understand the jokes of murderhobos, but frankly it's D&D. I don't play tabletop roleplaying games for complex intrigue and diplomacy. I play tabletop roleplaying games to engage in action-oriented fun.

However, I do have to say that I would much, much prefer if the people my character kills are evil and need killing, instead of 'orcs die because they're orcs.'

I say 'and need killing' to specify that the bad guys need to do something that specifically justifies violence. Not 'just evil'.

Auramis

2013-10-04, 09:41 AM

Technically the necropolitan template says "any nongood" - but there's nothing specifically stopping a Neutral necropolitan from turning Good.

And of course there are Good ghosts.

Way I see it- while deities may target specific groups as enemies, the Good ones are still going to keep in mind the realities of a D&D world- and act accordingly.

Corellon will be conscious that there's plenty of Neutral orcs, and a few Good ones.

Moradin will be aware that there's plenty of Good giants.

Garl will be aware that there's plenty of Neutral kobolds, and a few good ones.

Pelor will be aware that there's plenty of Neutral and Good ghosts.

And so forth. While their more zealous followers will blind themselves to these realities, I don't see the gods as so likely to.

And, if your DM likes the 4.0 mentality that not all chromatic/metallic dragons are evil/good, Bahamut has the wisdom to understand that there have been evil dragons who can turn from their usual nature.

Agreeing with this entirely. I understand that there will be fanatics who will kill in the name of their god, but I generally view good gods as being compassionate/understanding enough to know when to stop.

Story

2013-10-04, 09:48 AM

"Murderhobo" is a thing because the majority of PCs are homeless (whether because they don't have a backstory, or their players simply wanted to spend more of their resources on combat prowess rather than housing), highly averse to spending money on anything which doesn't increase their combat abilities, highly predisposed to use lethal violence as the solution to any problem (as can be demonstrated by many, many stories in Shadowrun about PCs shooting up donut shops to avoid paying for food), and also their munchkinry-enabled murder skills (a result of pouring all character resources into killing things)..

The thing is that in D&D, you're as likely to run up against beings literally made of Evil as you are ethically ambiguous humanoids. You could argue that not optimizing for combat is immoral in these circumstances.

And there's not much room for introspection in combat. If you hesitate, you die. If you have the resources to burn where you can take out everyone nonlethally without much risk, you probably aren't facing challenging enough encounters. This doesn't apply of course to encounters you initiate, but those are in the minority, and usually you have reason to believe that it's justified beforehand.

The other thing is that given the exponential progression in the game you could consider spending resources on combat to just be a wise investment. Why spend 100gp on a house now if in a couple of months you'll be able to build entire cities on a whim?

Alleran

2013-10-04, 09:52 AM

I thought he was the god of Ale and Whores (http://www.cafepress.com/pvp)?
He also has "adventurers" in his portfolio and is NG. Ergo, good-aligned mass murderers by the definition of the TC.

grarrrg

2013-10-04, 11:31 AM

He also has "adventurers" in his portfolio and is NG. Ergo, good-aligned mass murderers by the definition of the TC.

Murderers? Maybe.
Mass Murderers? Not necessarily.

Indiana Jones was an 'adventurer', and he didn't kill hundreds upon hundreds of people. A dozen or so maybe, but that's not really 'mass', and most were self-defense.