What good PF prestige classes would you bring down to 3.5?

[CyberThread]

What good Pathfinder prestige classes would you bring down to 3.5 for various builds?

[Big Fau]

Everything published by DSP. That's pretty much all I care about as far as Pathfinder goes.

[stack]

Pathfinder has prestige classes?


I jest, but seriously, there are very few ever mentioned beyond adding spells to your spell list or for odd case abilities, both of which are bountifully represented in 3.5 anyhow. There's probably a few, but I get the feeling most people just ignore the prestige class section and skip to archetypes.

[137beth]

They don't have too much in the way of prestige classes.
Now, as for what base classes, or feats, or anything else I'd bring back to 3.5:
Anything published by DSP, Rite publishing, Legendary...

Radiance House's update to the binder (now called the occultist) had a list of all new vestiges/spirits, and I'd probably bring those into 3.5...

[Larkas]

Arcane Archer. It is actually worthwhile in PF

[Psyren]

Some of my choices:

Harrower (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/harrower) could be a fun PrC for a Diviner. And you have built-in motivation to seek out a Deck of Many Things to use the capstone ability with.

Cyphermage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/cyphermage) would go well with Geometer.

Diabolist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/diabolist) goes very well with Thaumaturgist on an evil cleric/oracle/FS.

Veiled Illusionist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/veiled-illusionist) is really nice and combos well with Nightmare Spinner.

I also much prefer the PF versions of Arcane Trickster, Arcane Archer, Dragon Disciple, Mystic Theurge and Eldritch Knight.

[stack]

Yeah, I forgot about the stupidly built classes they fixed (arcane archer and dragon disciple). Adding casting progression kept them form being traps.

[Snowbluff]

Everything published by DSP. That's pretty much all I care about as far as Pathfinder goes.
Could you give some examples? I despise Paizo's work, and I think the system has core issues, but I heard DSP has been doing good things.

Pathfinder has prestige classes?

I jest, but seriously, there are very few ever mentioned beyond adding spells to your spell list or for odd case abilities, both of which are bountifully represented in 3.5 anyhow. There's probably a few, but I get the feeling most people just ignore the prestige class section and skip to archetypes.
I concur. Psyren mentioned the improved versions of PF classes, but most of those have had better versions made in later 3.5.

As for the arcane archer, which is the exception, I wouldn't take it past level 2 in either system. If I had to choose only one PF PrC to use in a build, I would take the 3.5 Archer and try and see if PF had something better.

[Psyren]

Could you give some examples? I despise Paizo's work, and I think the system has core issues, but I heard DSP has been doing good things.

They fixed Metamind! I could really just leave it right there.

I honestly like all of their PrCs though, so I can't single any out. Take a look. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes)

[Snowbluff]

They fixed Metamind! I could really just leave it right there.
Could you do me a favor and elaborate. I see they added new levels to it, but I am not sure what the objective of fixing it would be. Would that be removing the free powers? :smallconfused:
RDIT: Or are you referring to the full PP progression?


I honestly like all of their PrCs though, so I can't single any out. Take a look. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes) Thanks!

[Psyren]

Could you do me a favor and elaborate. I see they added new levels to it, but I am not sure what the objective of fixing it would be. Would that be removing the free powers? :smallconfused:
RDIT: Or are you referring to the full PP progression?
Thanks!

The "free" powers aren't actually free when you do the math. The way PPs scale as you level means that the lost ML cost you way more than you get back.

Here's the equivalency breakdown:

3/day 1st-level = 3 PP
3/day 2nd-level = 9 PP
1/day 3rd-level = 5 PP
1/day 4th-level = 7 PP
1/day 5th-level = 9 PP

Total savings = 28 PP

But you lost 5 levels for the privilege. Counting base PP alone, this meant that a Psion 5/Metamind 10 would have 88 base. Compare to a Psion 15's 195 base, and you can see the free manifestations don't even begin to address the gap. (88 + 28 = 116, a deficit of 79.) Practiced Manifester can't even help you, because base PP aren't based on ML, only bonus PP are. Factoring in bonus PP and without PM, the true gap is actually even wider than the one I just calculated.

[StreamOfTheSky]

The only good Paizo PF prestige classes are caster ones (Veiled Illusionist, Collegiate Arcanist, Hell Knight Enforcer, Dawnflower Dissident, PF Savant, Grey Gardner, probably some more...PF loves their casters) and Horizon Walker. And Horizon Walker has no settings between high and off. It's either worthless (facing wrong enemy type and don't have wand of Instant Enemy, wrong terrain type, or just plain not yet to level 9+ where it actually starts functioning) or it auto-wins encounters with +30ish to initiative, attack, and damage. And the last thing 3E needs is more good PrC options for casters.

So I guess I'd bring over none of them.

[Da'Shain]

PF Duelist seems to be objectively better than the 3.5 Duelist, and pretty good for a properly built mundane character, although it's not exactly going to bridge the tiers. Still, I'd definitely port that one back and give people at least a bit of reason to take the PrC.

[Auramis]

In our house, we use the PF Mystic Theurge over the DMG one, because the DMG one doesn't do anything for you aside from leveling your spells. With T1 casters, that's great, but the MT class itself felt very boring and flavorless, so we use the PF version.

We also draw down the arcane spell increases from the Dragon Disciple in PF, but we don't take the shapechange. We all liked the turning into a halfdragon idea much more, so we kept that. We've also tweaked the breath weapon to do viable damage.

In terms of non-prestige classes, we've also taken in the witch class, because we found it spiffy!

[Psyren]

And the last thing 3E needs is more good PrC options for casters.

I disagree - for all its powerful options, 3.5 has several underserved markets. Non-Shadow Illusionists have few PrCs worth going after, Non-Rogue Diviners are similarly deprived, and non-good summoners are bland because no Malconvoker.

Add to that the much more interesting versions of the core PrCs and you have plenty of reason to port things.

[Snowbluff]

I don't think more caster PrCs are needed, either. :smalltongue:


The "free" powers aren't actually free when you do the math. The way PPs scale as you level means that the lost ML cost you way more than you get back.
But you lost 5 levels for the privilege. Counting base PP alone, this meant that a Psion 5/Metamind 10 would have 88 base. Compare to a Psion 15's 195 base, and you can see the free manifestations don't even begin to address the gap. (88 + 28 = 116, a deficit of 79.) Practiced Manifester can't even help you, because base PP aren't based on ML, only bonus PP are. Factoring in bonus PP and without PM, the true gap is actually even wider than the one I just calculated.Yeah, I figured the new PP progression would give much more value than the class feature.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I disagree - for all its powerful options, 3.5 has several underserved markets. Non-Shadow Illusionists have few PrCs worth going after, Non-Rogue Diviners are similarly deprived, and non-good summoners are bland because no Malconvoker.

Add to that the much more interesting versions of the core PrCs and you have plenty of reason to port things.

Veiled Illusionist is best for CLERIC characters, not Illusionist arcanists. if you made it arcane caster progressing -only, then fine, I suppose. As it stands, it gives divine casters a ton of new spells to their spell list.

And I also don't really care if casters are limited in flavor or whatever, they have real ultimate cosmic power. If all of the prestige classes dropped CL advancement at 1st level, like Stormcaster (a great, storm/lightning flavored caster PrC) or PF Savant, it'd be less of a big deal. Giving casters more full CL advancing options is the last thing the game needs, though.

[Psyren]

Veiled Illusionist is best for CLERIC characters, not Illusionist arcanists. if you made it arcane caster progressing -only, then fine, I suppose. As it stands, it gives divine casters a ton of new spells to their spell list.

That's not so bad either - after all, there are thematic domains like Trickery, Illusion and Shadow that could go with this, so I'd have no problem with a cleric gaining access.



And I also don't really care if casters are limited in flavor or whatever, they have real ultimate cosmic power.

It's more accurate to say they have potential ultimate cosmic power. I recommend you read Saph's thread on Uberchargers and why they cause more headaches for more DMs in actual games than a simple T1 caster.

On message boards, wizards are reshaping reality in their image from their demiplane sanctum while researching immortality for their pet cat and playing checkers with deities. At gaming tables though, relatively few people actually end up accessing that level of power.

[Drelua]

As someone who doesn't really play casters, there's very few prestige classes that appeal to me, but there's a couple I like. Halfling Opportunist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/halfling-opportunist) has some pretty cool abilities, especially exploitative maneuver, although that doesn't really work without a good DM. I like Chevalier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/chevalier)for a non-lawful champion of good, although if I was playing 3.5 I'd probably just go with a Paladin of Freedom. Then again, there's no reason you can't be both. The Champion of Irori (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/champion-of-irori) is a pretty cool way to make a Monk/Paladin hybrid, although it would be pretty heavily nerfed if it had to work with 3.5 smite evil.