Cultural Knowledge: Local or Language?

[Mr.Sandman]

When dealing with other cultures and races how to PC's get the needed knowledge to not come off as stupid foreigners? Would you rule that Language comes with some deeper study of the culture? Otherwise you wouuld just be parroting words. Or would you use Knowledge Local? An already vague skill only taken by Bards or Rogues unless the game all takes place in one place.

[HalfQuart]

RAW it would be Knowledge (Local), which reads:
Local (legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids)

But you could also use Knowledge (Geography):
Geography (lands, terrain, climate, people)

Or maybe Knowledge (History):
History (royalty, wars, colonies, migrations, founding of cities)

I'd say you could perhaps get something just from knowing the language, assuming the number of speakers of the given language isn't too vast. For example, if you were fluent in Spanish, what would that tell you about the cultures of Spain, Ecuador, or Cuba? (Probably not much, without specific study of those places.)

I'd probably say you could use Knowledge (Local), or Knowledge (Geography) at -2 to the check, or Knowledge (History) at -4, and maybe give a +2 bonus if you know the language.

Knowledge (Local) is often actually taken by Wizards, Archivists, and others with Knowledge (All) as class skills, since it lets you make knowledge checks about humanoid monsters to learn about their special abilities and vulnerabilities. Even more so with the Knowledge Devotion feat and/or the Collector of Stories skill trick.

[HalfQuart]

Oh, and Knowledge (Local) isn't restricted to one specific local place. It just means you know a lot about legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, and humanoids of various places.

[karkus]

Definitely Knowledge (Local). When you say "Language," do you mean Knowledge (Language) or do you mean Speak Language? Either way, it's Knowledge (Local).

[lsfreak]

I'd just say it's wrapped into the language. If you don't know when to use what idioms, how to swear or how to insult someone with class, when it's appropriate to use what types of speech (conjugating for politeness, whether a question should be interpreted as a command, when and how to issue commands without being rude), what different cultural or religious references are, and so on you can hardly be said to be fluent.

Not to say there still couldn't be obvious ways of spotting the outsider. If I go to London, I will very obviously be an American, betrayed by my dialect of English, as well as lack of knowledge of local customs. I had no idea, until one of my teachers told a humorous story involving her own confusion, that having tea involves a small meal's worth of food as well.

It also depends in part on how you view languages. For example, in my games, languages tend to be local languages, plus a koine that everyone in the region is familiar with. It's much more likely that you'd get the whole culture's worth of knowledge if the whole culture is limited to an area you can walk across in three or four days.

[PaucaTerrorem]

RAW it would be Knowledge (Local), which reads:
Local (legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids)

But you could also use Knowledge (Geography):
Geography (lands, terrain, climate, people)

Or maybe Knowledge (History):
History (royalty, wars, colonies, migrations, founding of cities)

I'd go with Knowledge(Local) at whatever DC. Knowledge(History) at a +4 DC and Knowledge(Geography) at +8.

[BWR]

what do you mean, "not come off as stupid foreigner"? Blend in perfectly, or at least not be too obvious about it in casual conversation, or be able to walk down the street without everyone immediately picking up you aren't from around here? Because the DCs for blending in perfectly will be a lot higher than simply avoiding a terribly embarrassing and potentially insulting minor act.

It's a very mixed up situation, comprising a lot of factors across a lot of skills.

Bluff - able to give the immediate impression that you know what someone is talking about.

Perform (acting) - giving off correct body language, not staring at things locals don't

Speak Language/Linguistics: knowing what words mean what, try to avoid unfortunate mispronounciations, etc., correct accent and dialect (I'd make a high DC check to sound mostly native, higher to emulate odd accents, even higher to fool native speakers of an accent)

Diplomacy: etiquette - knowing what sort of language to use to in what situation, what proper behavior is for any given situation, e.g. gift giving or meals, probably a lot higher DC the less familiar you are with the culture in question.

Knowledge (local) and to a lesser extent Knowledge (geography) might at a higher DCs be able to replace some rolls. It probably won't allow you to understand an entirely unfamiliar dialect, but may clue you in on a few words, some idioms, why everybody makes a complicated gesture when they pass a certain historical landmark. Very basic etiquette would probably be covered by these skills (like bowing in certain parts of the world, or shaking hands in others).

Disguise - make sure your clothes don't stick out. Women wearing a burqa in Norway will tend to stick out more than those that don't. And there are places in the world where an adult man without facial hair will stick out. Knowledge (local) and possibly K. (religion) can tip you off about what to wear and what not to wear, but Disguise will let you wear it better.

Take something particularly Western like Christmas. What skill roll should be used to understand it?
Knowledge (religion)? a history of current and possibly ancient traditions of it, understanding what these little scenes of unsanitary conditions for a newborn kid mean, why lights and stars seem to be popular, etc. the usual Bible bits about the birth of Jesus spouted around the holiday.
Knowledge (history)? the existance of solstice rituals, the pope who ordered missionaries to coopt local holidays rather than trying to get people to ignore it, changes made throughout the years.
Knowledge (local) how people in the vicinity specifically celebrate - which may not be the same as everyone else in the country., includes food, stories told, etc..
Knowledge (geography) - where Christmas is celebrated, some differences between areas (how Norwegians celebrate it differently than English).
Profession (cook) traditional foods for Christmas. Turkey? Goose? Lutefisk? Pork ribs? Roast beef? Baccalà? Pinnekjøtt?
Perform (storytelling) - what sort of stories are told around Christmas, religious and non-religious (A visit from St. Nicholas, The Little Match Girl, etc.) Christmas carols (high-DC Language checks might replace this, as might K. (history) or K. (religion).

Just as a suggestion.

[Flickerdart]

Literally all Speak Language does is allow you to speak, read, and write a language. Correct use of idioms is not included in this list - you may learn Dwarven but not know what "shaving a duergar's beard" means, even if you understand the literal meaning. You can't make a Speak Language check for anything, because RAW there are no Speak Language checks.

[BWR]

I think most people who know anything about languages would argue that understanding idioms is a very important part of speaking a language.