How to take from the players without being arbitrary?

[Monkeyknuckles]

Ok so I may have sightly overlooted the party, they killed a minor death that was sent to collect one of the players, and now they have his robe and scythe.

The Scythe I'm not worried about, but the robe allows them to turn ethereal and they're considering using it to kill the current High King for betraying them.

This would seriously wreck my storyline and make them miss out on a few big reveals. I've already decided that there are other Deaths looking for the missing scythe and robe, but I'm not sure about the best way to retrieve it.

I'm stumped atm and would appreciate any feedback or suggestions.

THe game is E6, the players are 6+2

Lvl 6 Elven Swordsage
Lvl 6 Dark Creature ELan Psychic ROgue
Lvl 6 Half Orc Duskblade with scyzophrenia
Lvl 6 Half Giant Blaster Psion

[Tim Proctor]

Have the palace permanenced with Wall of Force, add in spell turrets to do X, Y and Z and just have a properly defended castle/palace.

If you want to get rid of the stuff too, then have the palace guarded and have one of the spell turrets be a lvl 9 and have Mage’s Disjunction, so they trip the turret when they enter the one place they can and bam lose all their magic items. That's what I'd do.

BTW the preference for lvl 9 spell turrets that guard something like a castle would be Time Stop / Mage’s Disjunction / Weird

[John Longarrow]

If the robe allows the players to be etherial, is there any chance it has limited uses/must be recharged by a Death monthly? Something along those lines may work really good, especially if there are only a few more times they can use it before they need to do XYZ to replentish its ability.

[Yuki Akuma]

Surely the High King has defenses against ethereal assassins. Is the entire world E6 or just the players?

If all else fails... say that there's an exact replica of the castle on the Ethereal Plane, so going ethereal doesn't help them sneak through walls.

Although, really, giving a 7th level spell effect to an E6 party is asking for trouble. :smalltongue:

[Equinox]

Simple. The Robe and Scythe are special magic items that only work for one specific wielder - the Minor Death.

[BWR]

Have the PCs actually used the items yet? If not, just say they are keyed to the dead death or its colleagues and the PCs can't use it.

If the PCs have already used them, say they soon evaporate into thin air. These items are more like aspects of the death rather than independant magic items and the power fades.

Or say that every round one of the items is used, there is an X percent chance that the other deaths come to reclaim the lost items (more coming every round).

Have the king's rooms warded with permanent Dimensional Locks. Or a permanent Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound. Or some sort of loyal ghost, like the Sapphire Guard's ghosts. Or all of the above.

[Yuki Akuma]

I would personally let them keep the robe. Maybe give it charges per day, but otherwise, they beat the enemy, so they should get this neat little thing.

But like I said before, this is the High King. Him having defenses against just this sort of thing isn't out of the question.

I'd also go about designing some encounters and puzzles and so forth that the players can use the etherealness ability for. Tailor the plot to the party, and so forth.

[Brookshw]

So I can't say that I know much about e6. Is the world supposed to be restricted in the same way or are there supposedly higher level NPCs? Plenty of ways to stop ethereal.

But I don't think you'll need to work too hard at this, they have one cloak, easy enough I'd imagine for the king to have enough defenders around that a single party member getting in to be much of a threat.

Or as has been mentioned using the cloak to bypass guard posts, open doors etc to help enable the party to enter for their goal could work in nicely.

You wanted to prevent the death of the king to help keep story elements alive. Can you modify the elements so that the kings death wouldn't matter much? The high prince enters as a substitute? Plenty of story devices are probably available to allow you to salvage the elements you like.

Go do something like the gith. You got one's silver sword. Well that just paints a target on you for greater gith specialized in retrieving these items. Replace gith with death.

[zlefin]

The simplest method is to just tell the players:
"I apologize, I didn't think this through carefully enough. I let you have an item of etherealness, which generally requires at least 7th level spells, in an E6 world. Also, if you use it to kill the king, it'll really mess up the campaign plan, so please dont' do that."

and then negotiate some alternate compensation for their trouble.

[The Oni]

I've already decided that there are other Deaths looking for the missing scythe and robe, but I'm not sure about the best way to retrieve it.

By any chance, are you, the DM, good at Chess? :smallbiggrin:

[demigodus]

The simplest method is to just tell the players:
"I apologize, I didn't think this through carefully enough. I let you have an item of etherealness, which generally requires at least 7th level spells, in an E6 world. Also, if you use it to kill the king, it'll really mess up the campaign plan, so please dont' do that."

and then negotiate some alternate compensation for their trouble.

Second this

[BWR]

The simplest method is to just tell the players:
"I apologize, I didn't think this through carefully enough. I let you have an item of etherealness, which generally requires at least 7th level spells, in an E6 world. Also, if you use it to kill the king, it'll really mess up the campaign plan, so please dont' do that."

and then negotiate some alternate compensation for their trouble.

Now don't be silly.
Admitting screw-ups and trying to work things out as rational adults has no place in gaming.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Being a possession of an aspect of Death, make the robe only function for someone if they're carrying out a mission to slay a specific individual who's due to expire. Or, make it so anyone who is using it is incapable of killing/harming anyone outside of those who are due to die anyway, per Death's mission. The first one is probably the best, as it will also prevent them from using it to rob a nation blind.

Maybe make it so any time it's used, the wearer then 'owes' death a soul that was due to expire. In E6 this is an artifact-quality item, and artifacts that come without any drawback are few to none. They use it once, they now have to use it to kill a specific individual or the robe (which is now impossible to remove) automatically kills them as payment. They end up using the robe again in the process of killing that person, and they now owe another life. The cycle would perpetuate indefinitely and the robe would ruin whoever dares to use it. Be sure to warn them about this first! Edit: If you want to really punish them, make the first individual they're ordered to slay be the party member that the original wearer was sent to kill. If they use it once then it's a guaranteed party member death, either the one who used it or the party member Death was originally after.

Yet another option would be to just make it a Relic item, per CD/MIC, so only someone who is a devout follower of Death and has either the True Believer feat and at least X HD (more than six!) or sacrifices a Divine spell of Y level or higher (4th+) can use it.

Finally, make it a charged item, and the only way to renew charges is to offer Death a life that he's due. They would have to somehow contact Death to find out who to kill to power the robe, and Death could simply demand the life of the party member who the original wearer was sent to kill! If they've already used it, then that was the last charge it had remaining. Their only chance of selling it would be to some collector of strange items, and they would definitely not get anywhere near even half value, but possibly have the collector offer them a rare item in exchange.

Edit2: Another idea, have several individuals from an extraordinarily powerful and secretive organization akin to SCP (http://www.scp-wiki.net/) show up out of the blue and demand that the PCs hand over those items, possibly offering them compensation. Give their agents all super-effective/cheesy E6 builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301617#9), but not outright kill the PCs. Have them give the party one warning not to interfere with SCP in the future, as doing so would put the safety of the world at stake.

[sketchtb]

Make the robe intelligent and pissed for killing its owner. They try to attack while wearing it, it makes them ethereal, they try to go ethereal, it refuses to work at the worst possible moments...

[Tim Proctor]

Make the robe intelligent and pissed for killing its owner. They try to attack while wearing it, it makes them ethereal, they try to go ethereal, it refuses to work at the worst possible moments...

That is a really good idea, but make it and scythe want to be together and make the bearer into the grim reaper. Like they can't go after the king because it isn't his time, but the kid with the flu...

[Grod_The_Giant]

Alternate solution: You've got time between games, use it to rewrite your plot to take your player's desires into account.

[Fax Celestis]

Couple options.

Wielding the scythe or wearing the robe inflicts you with a geas and/or dominate effect that requires you to kill the next person due to die. The high king is not due to die for a while yet.

The robe is racially-restricted or only works for creatures that are powered by negative energy.

The robe itself doesn't cast the etherealness SLA, it lets you transform a spell-like ability (that all Deaths have, mind you) into etherealness.

Or, yeah, talk to your group and be like, "This item is too powerful and it's going to wreck the campaign. Can I give you all anklets of translocation or something instead?"

[Trickquestion]

You could make it like the One Ring, in that if you put it on the powerful ghost monsters who want you did suddenly know you exact location. They probably won't be too eager to use it if it results in literal swarms of Deaths hounding them.

[nedz]

Just have some ethereal creature live in the same place as the palace on the ethereal plane. They go ethereal, and get chased off. Ghosts of some kind possibly.

[Gemini476]

Couple options.

Wielding the scythe or wearing the robe inflicts you with a geas and/or dominate effect that requires you to kill the next person due to die. The high king is not due to die for a while yet.

...One a similar note: bearing the Mantle of death will, in time, turn you into Death. If you go around killing people with a scythe and robe of etherealness, well, sooner or later the other guys come and remind you that your contract requires you to only kill those about to die. When did they agree to that, they say? The moment they decided to cosplay as Death and run around bringing Death to people.

They can take their pink slip and go, if they so wish, but that would require giving back the scythe and robe. Or they could embrace their new job, perhaps keep following the rest of the party and fighting alongside them (without dealing the lethal blow, that is).
And, in time, fully becoming a new Lesser Death.

What, how else are they supposed to replace the dead guys? The Santa Clause/Elder Scrolls/Dresden Files rules work perfectly fine here.


Oh, and Artificers can make scrolls of 4th level spells in E6, Elven Generalist Domain Wizards can get 9th level spells from their domain, Versatile Spellcaster spontaneous list casters get 4th level spells...

[Andvare]

By any chance, are you, the DM, good at Chess? :smallbiggrin:

When in doubt, challenge Death to a wet t-shirt contest.

[sketchtb]

Sorry, double post

[Grod_The_Giant]

When in doubt, challenge Death to a wet t-shirt contest.
I think we know where this is going (http://xkcd.com/393/), and down that road madness lies. (http://xkcd.com/244/)

[ArcturusV]

I'm going to second the "let them have it". At the very least it's a chance for you to practice flexibility in your DM and storytelling, which isn't a bad skill to have in general. Players like to go off the rails. All the time. If you plan on DMing a lot sooner or later you will end up having to learn how to deal with it. Not only that... I've found that generally the more interesting plots are ones that take turns even you didn't expect. This doesn't mean you just let your players dictate the game's narrative. After all, you control 99.9999% of the world's population. That gives you a lot of leverage. Just... take their plan and spin it in Direction C instead of towards Original Plot A, or Player Plot of Revenge B.

Things that pop up off the top of my head:

Turbulence in the Ethereal Plane. Strange events happen to people and creatures that travel through it. Rumors are spreading of Ghosts that are manifested permanently, or others who just disappear never to be heard from again. Players who use the robe to travel in that fashion experience strange encounters. Not deadly... but ones that seem Off. The Ethereal Realm no longer matches the physical realm directly and things are often very, very twisted to the point of almost being unrecognizable.

Plot hook that has almost unlimited potential from high necromancy screwing with the bonds of Ethereal and Material, emergence of Gods, somewhat regular occurrence which might bring doom, etc, etc, etc.

Legion of the Dead. The ghosts of honored knights and warriors behind the high king through the ages haunt the castle. As such the Ethereal Assassin option isn't exactly as easy peasy as they would hope, and is guarded by ghosts who are sworn to protect the rightful king. This MAAAAAY prompt them into a plot to prove the High King isn't the rightful king, and install the "true ruler"... which can be interesting in and of itself. Or prompt them to go for a more mundane assassination/coup.

[Jack_Simth]

Ok so I may have sightly overlooted the party, they killed a minor death that was sent to collect one of the players, and now they have his robe and scythe.

The Scythe I'm not worried about, but the robe allows them to turn ethereal and they're considering using it to kill the current High King for betraying them.

This would seriously wreck my storyline and make them miss out on a few big reveals. I've already decided that there are other Deaths looking for the missing scythe and robe, but I'm not sure about the best way to retrieve it.

I'm stumped atm and would appreciate any feedback or suggestions.

THe game is E6, the players are 6+2

Lvl 6 Elven Swordsage
Lvl 6 Dark Creature ELan Psychic ROgue
Lvl 6 Half Orc Duskblade with scyzophrenia
Lvl 6 Half Giant Blaster Psion

Simple solution:
When it's used, it lets the nearest couple of Deaths know where it is. Every round it is in use, there is a 1% (cumulative) chance that another Death (Roll randomly to determine lesser, medium, or Greater - say, 1-3 for a lesser, 4-5 for a medium, or 6 for a greater ... on a d6) shows up. So 1% the first round of use, 2% the second, 3% the third, and so on (and more Deaths will keep showing up). Any Death that is overly threatened? Well, they just go Ethereal and duck underground.

As for the castle? Yeah, Ethereal guards. Ghosts of loyal knights past. Sure, they can go that route. There might be a little bit of a problem, though...

On the plus side, Deaths and Ghosts are natural enemies. So while all the Ghosts will try to kill you if you show up on the Ethereal wearing a Death's Robe and carrying a Death's Scythe... if other Deaths show up to reclaim the robe while the PC is wearing it, it's going to become a three-way battle, which gives the party time to run.

[Clistenes]

The High King could have some protective spells in his Throne Room, sleeping room and dining room: Dimensional Locker, Antimagic Field, Hallow+Dimensional Anchor, Forbiddance...etc.

The Court Wizard could have enchanted the walls to be proof against ethereal travel, or even cast Permanent Force Wall; if the king's dinasty has reigned for very long there could have been several generations of wizards raising Permanent Force Walls at key points.

Or even better, there could be an Permanent Prismatic Wall sandwished between two normal walls, and when the character tries to pass, the tunic is damaged, the character is shunted out of the wall unharmed, but the item is no longer useable.

Also, there could be Ghosts of famous knights of old roaming the Ethereal around the castle. They could have sworn to protect the High King's family forever, even after death.

[Monkeyknuckles]

Awesome ideas everyone! I think these will be more than enough to work off of.:smallsmile:

[Crake]

Make it so each use of the robe slowly turns a user into a minor death, and eventually, once the robe has been used enough, the player transforms into an NPC minor death and leave the party to go perform his duties. Give them ample signs in game that something is happening to them as they use the robe more and more, such as they notice that their way of thinking is slowly changing, they're becoming more apathetic to the world around them, or their faces begin to become more gaunt and pale, and so on

Edit: Depending on the reasons behind deciding to run e6 or not, i'd probably stray away from the high king having loads of magical defences in his castle, as it seems a bit of a cop out that way. (the players get their hands on a powerful magical artifact, and suddenly the entire kingdom is equipped to deal with something like that? doesn't feel right if you ask me)

[Grollub]

Tons you can do here, imo....

If they haven't used the items and but know what they do... you can put charges on it, or have the "death"s come collect them


If you want them to have it.. then its fun time..

1 ) you could leave things as is, and see where it goes

2 ) as they use the robe/scythe.. have deaths show up around their area, lurking in the shadows watching. ( that will make any player nervous as hell )

3 ) have the robes/ scythe begin to take them over, aka gravetouched armor style...

4 ) enter the king subplot... they go to kill the king.. and he's expected/wanted that for a while and has a trap to spring to get the robes/ scythe/character wearing them for himself.

5 ) have the magic empowering the items expire

6 ) chat with players out of game, and come to a solution that meets their needs/wants as well as yours , if nothing posted in this thread sounds awesome

[Toy Killer]

I personally love the idea of the player getting into an encounter, deciding to use the cloak of death, turns ethereal and looks up to being surrounded by a band of minor deaths. The players can't see or help the poor fool, can't attack the assailants, leaving the one member to his own accord.

and he can't go back to material.

After a few rounds of combat, before he dies, Negotiations are struck. They mention they lost a brother, and he had taken up the mantle but hasn't been living up to the ideology of a minor death. "You've had your fun, but now you have work to do" kind of thing.

Then hand him a list of people on their last strings of life. towards the bottom of the list is the PCs name.

Instant campaign fuel.

[Deaxsa]

..why not let them? sure, you wasted some good plot hooks, but it's the player's game, not yours.

maybe, the king becomes a ghost and only the one with the robe can effectively ward him off while he haunts the party, or his ghost tells people, or they game turns into the party trying to keep their assassination a secret, or they are trying to work out what goes on now that the only person keeping order in the kingdom is gone... etc.

(note: BBEGs/Charismatic Antagonists/Good(as in proficient) Kings tend to make good rulers/leaders, and when a large nation is deprived of a powerful, respected leader... chaos tends to ensue.)