Help with understanding Surprising Riposte feat

[Undead_Assassin]

So I'm making a revision of the Invisible Blade Prc from the Complete Warrior and I want to give Surprising Riposte as a bonus feat to the class. I've heard much discussion of this feat, it's main benefit is allowing full-round attack sneak attacks. The feat says:
If you deal damage to an opponent in the same round that you successfully feinted against it, it becomes flat-footed. This effect lasts 1 round or until the opponent's next turn, whichever comes first.
Opponents that can't be caught flat-footed, such as characters who have uncanny dodge, cannot be affected by Surprising Riposte

So I do not see how you gain a full attack as a sneak attack with this. Okay, so here's a scenario, 5th level invisible blade with the feat in a 1 on 1 duel with a fighter. If you're a level 5 invisible blade you can feint as a free action in combat, so if you were adjacent to the target, you could feint but only take a standard attack after this. Let's say he hit's with this attack, Then surprising riposte would kick in. So after the attack the opponent is flat-footed, now it's the opponent's turn so the effect wears off. I don't see how this could open up a full-attack option with a sneak attack, am I missing something?

[Icewraith]

If you feint as a free action, and are adjacent to the target, why can't you make a full attack?

You feint as a free action, target is flat footed, you hit and gain sneak attack damage on the first hit.

Now, since you feinted and damaged the target, he's flat footed until his next turn or 1 round, so the rest of your attacks are sneak attacks too.

[ArcturusV]

Probably extra attacks in a full attack routine.

So it'd go: Free Action Feint. Full round attack, lets say BaB of 11.

Sneak attack due to the Feint. You deal damage. So they're flatfooted again. Which lets you Sneak Attack with your second attack. Which makes them flatfooted again. Which lets you Sneak Attack with your third attack.

Without it, how it'd go is that you's Feint, Sneak Attack, and the other two are normal attacks. But probably the idea is that with the "refresh" of the Flat Footed status everytime you deal damage, every attack counts as the "First" against a Flat-Footed opponent and thus gets the bonus dice.

Least that's my reading of it.

[Undead_Assassin]

Okay, I was under the impression that the only action you could take with a full-round action was a 5-foot step. You can take a free action w/ a full attack? Well then it makes sense. I guess I just didn't know about that,Thanks for the replies.

[Silva Stormrage]

Yep you can also take swift/immediate actions with full round actions.

Free actions can basically be taken any time on your turn and you get pretty much infinite per turn.

[Person_Man]

Yes, it works. But I wouldn't suggest it, because it's a really inefficient way to get moderate bonus damage that many enemies are immune to. You may wish to consider this list of ways to qualify for Sneak Attack:


1) Ambush: If you ambush your enemy, you get a free Surprise Round against them. A Flat Footed enemy loses their Dex bonus until they act. Remember the the Surprise Round is only a Standard Action. So you'll need Greater Manyshot or Pounce (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) (remember that you can still Charge if your actions are limited) to get a full attack.

2) Win Initiative: If you win Initiative, you enemy is still Flat Footed, and still denied their Dex bonus.

3) Flanking: Have someone summon a lot of weak creatures. Here's a good list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5876523&postcount=16) of magic items to do just that.

4) More Flanking: Invest in Handle Animal. Buy a lot of dogs. They're cheap and easy to train.

5) Still More Flanking: Invest in Tumble, get behind your enemies, have your party's meatshield fight in front of them.

6) Yet More Flanking: Adaptable Flanker (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/adaptable-flanker--35/) feat (PHBII) allows you to flank from any square. Combine with a reach weapon, and now you can stand next to or even behind a friend and still flank an enemy.

7) Tome of Battle Flanking: Island of Blades, a Shadow Hand stance allows you to flank from any square as long as you and an ally are both adjacent to the enemy. You can get this from a one level dip into Swordsage, or by taking the Martial Study -> Martial Stance feats.

8) Dear Gods, How Much Flanking Do We Need?: Obtain Familiar + Improved Familiar, if you can cast arcane spells. Now you have a full time friend to Flank with, and he can Share Spells with you (like Alter Self and Greater Invisibility).

9) Armor Lock (Complete Scoundrel): 1st level spell that works on enemies wearing armor for multiple rounds. Buy a wand.

10) Invisibility: Note that most Invisibility effects duplicate the Invisibility spell, which ends as soon as you make your first attack. So it's only useful at low levels, and for traditional scouting and ambushing tactics. The Ninja has Invisibility that lasts for 1 round, but with limited uses per day.

11) Greater Invisibility: Once your party hits level 7ish, there's really no reason someone in your group shouldn't cast this on you at the start of every combat.

12) Ring of Blinking: If you're party members are jerks and refuse to cast Greater Invisibility on you, use this item instead. Pick up the Pierce Magical Concealment feat (Complete Arcane) to ignore your own 20% miss chance.

13) Skill Tricks: Again, check out the Complete Scoundrel. Skill Tricks can be very useful (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633).

14) Fear: If your enemy is Cowering, he loses his Dex bonus. There are a large variety of ways to get and use Fear effects, and a variety of ways to corner or immobilize him.

15) Stun: If your enemy is stunned, he loses his Dex bonus. Work with the Monk in your party, or ask the caster to use spells with this effect.

16) Blind: If your enemy is blind, he loses his Dex bonus. There are a variety of spells and alchemical items that do this, plus the Focalor (Tome of Magic) or Kas vestige (Dragon Magazine 341), the Sand Dancer feat (Sandstorm), and others.

17) Helpless: There are a variety of spells and a few effects that render your foe paralyzed or otherwise helpless. A Rogue's Coup de Grace almost never fails.

18) Hide in Plain Site: There are many ways to get this. My favorite is a dip into Warlock let's you Hide in Plain Site (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57352) every round as a Swift action. This means that any enemy who fails their Spot check is denied their Dex bonus against your next attack. Not efficient if you want to make full attacks, but helpful nonetheless.

19) Grappling: An opponent who is grappled loses their Dex bonus to everyone except the grappler, another way to tag team with your party members. Or invest in Handle animal and buy mules, which are a cheap and effective Grapple partner.

20) Net, Razor Net, Lasso: Each of these is a touch attack that imposes a -4 penalty on Dex. Penalties from different sources stack. Enemies with 0 Dex count as being paralyzed. I wouldn't even bother with taking the Exotic Weapon feats, because touch attacks are easy, so the -4 penalty to hit is palatable. Though I would definitely invest in Spell Storing weapons, and find spells that deal Dex damage/penalties. Here's a list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6342523&postcount=23) of ways to deal Dex damage.

21) Feint: This is a retarded waste of an action in most cases. But it works well at low levels if you're only making 1 attack per turn. Can be augmented to a limited degree with the Insightful Feint spell (Spell Compendium), and if you're an Invisible Blade with the Surprising Riposte feat (Drow of the Underdark) it works for a full attack.

22) Telling Blow (PHBII): When you crit, you also deal Sneak Attack. I'm not a fan of this method. It doesn't double your Sneak Attack if you flank and crit, WotC has made it clear that it just let's you qualify. So at best 30% of your attacks get Sneak Attack. There are many better uses for your feats, IMO.

23) More Tome of Battle Craziness: There are a bunch of maneuvers which render your enemy Flat Footed or otherwise deny them their Dex bonus, especially in the Tiger Claw and Shadow Hand disciplines. You can also get Sneak Attack via the Assassin's Stance, which still qualifies you for the best Sneak Attack feats (Staggering Strike, Craven, etc). So in many ways a Swordsage is a better Sneak Attacker then the Rogue. (Or you can go Rogue 1/Swordsage X or Swordsage X/Nightsong Enforcer 1 so that you can use other stances).

24) Confound the Bigfolk (Races of the Wild): It has some very specific mechanics you have to follow, but basically if you're two sizes smaller then your enemy then you can move into his square, and the next round he’s Flat Footed against you, and when other enemies attack you they have a 50% chance of hitting the enemy in your square instead of you.

25) Shadow Mantle soulmeld bound to Shoulders gives you (weird, poorly worded) continuous Greater Invisibility. Anyone can do this with Feats (Shape Soulmeld and Open Chakra) at very high levels. Magic of Incarnum.


That's not even a complete list.

[Fax Celestis]

Person Man, do you just keep that list in your clipboard or something?

[mattie_p]

Addendum to grappling: If you can wild shape, take savage grapple. This allows sneak attack on every successful grapple.