What happens when I level up?

[Gale]

I've just started playing Dungeons and Dragons (3.5) recently. We all started off at Level 4 and after a couple sessions we advanced to Level 6. We're supposed to be leveling up our stats accordingly over the week but I don't have a good idea how exactly to go about doing that. I managed to figure out most things fortunately but not everything.
Could someone give me a rundown on what you're supposed to do once you level up?

[JusticeZero]

Some of your numbers go up - BAB, saves, stuff like that. You get more skill points, and the amount of skill points you can have in any skill goes up one each level. You get more hit points each level. Other things depend on your class, but you get more spells and you can use more of them every day. If I knew more about what class you were and things like that, could go into more detail. Would be able to offer opinions on what you were thinking of getting too, if you wanted. Are the other people you are playing with more experienced? They should be able to help too.

[Red Fel]

I've just started playing Dungeons and Dragons recently. We all started off at Level 4 and after a couple session we advanced to Level 6. We're supposed to be leveling up our stats accordingly over the week but I don't have a good idea how exactly to go about doing that. I managed to figure out most things fortunately but not everything.
Could someone give me a rundown on what you're supposed to do once you level up?

Here are some of the things you should do, in no particular order:

Increase your BAB and saves. If you are remaining in a single class, simply shift the numbers to what they would be for the next level. If you are multiclassing, add the highest numbers for your new class to the highest numbers for the old class.
If your new class level gives you spells or abilities which must be chosen from a list, select them. If your new class level increases the abilities of an older class level (such as "+1 level of pre-existing arcane spellcasting"), increase those abilities accordingly.
If your new level entitles you to a feat, select it. For example, you typically receive a feat for reaching 6th level.
If you have other abilities based on achieving certain levels or Hit Dice, document them. For example, Dragonborn aspect abilities upgrade depending on your Hit Dice.
You get skills based upon your current class and Int.
Depending on how your group handles this, calculate your new hit points.


There may be other choices, but we'd need more information - your class combination, your race/templates, feats, etc.

[Gale]

I'm a Bard working towards becoming a Virtuoso and we're playing DnD 3.5.
The DM and one of the other players have a lot of experience, the rest of us are just newbies. I would go ask them about it but I'm not sure they're free right now. (Plus it's raining and I don't have a car.)

I'm not sure what else information to give. I am a Gnome though and the feats I have are:

Weapon Finesse (Rapier)
Extra Music
Lyric Spell

[Chester]

What class are you playing? That can help us give you more info. :smallsmile:
I guess you answered that.

[Red Fel]

I'm a Bard working towards becoming a Virtuoso and we're playing DnD 3.5.
The DM and one of the other players have a lot of experience, the rest of us are just newbies. I would go ask them about it but I'm not sure they're free right now. (Plus it's raining and I don't have a car.)

I'm not sure what else information to give. I am a Gnome though and the feats I have are:

Weapon Finesse (Rapier)
Extra Music
Lyric Spell


Okay, good. This is something we can work with.

As I understand it, then, you're going to Bard 6, is that correct?

At Bard 6:

You have BAB +4, Fort +2, Will +5, Ref +5. Since you're single-classing Bard for now, these simply replace your prior BAB and saves.
You gain Suggestion (Sp).
You have 6 0th-level, 4 1st-level, and 3 2nd-level Bard spells known, plus any from ability modifiers. These replace your previous numbers of spells known.
You have 3 0th-level, 3 1st-level, and 2 2nd-level spells per day. These replace your previous numbers of spells per day.
You gain 6 + Int modifier skill points.
You gain 1d6 + Con modifier hit points (unless your group calculates hit points differently).
You gain one feat for reaching level 6.

All information available in the PHB or on the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm).

It sounds like you have already selected your feat. At this point, you should allocate your skill points, roll for your hit points, select your spells known, increase your BAB and saves, and make note of the Suggestion ability and its effects.

Note also that, upon reaching 5th level, and every third Bard level after that, you may swap out one Bard spell you know for another of the same level, provided that the new spell is at least two levels lower than your highest-level spell. In other words, at level 5, since your highest-level spell is level 2, you can swap out a 0th-level spell for another 0th-level spell.

[Gale]

You gain 6 + Int modifier skill points.
Excuse my ignorance but what exactly does this mean?

[Morgarion]

A bard gets six skill points, plus one skill point for each point of your INT modifier. INT modifiers are based on the raw ability score, i.e. 12 and 13 have a modifier of +1, so a bard with an INT score of 12 or 13 would get 7 skill points to be distributed at each level up.

[Gavinfoxx]

Do you have the players handbook? The DMG?

It was left out of the SRD for a reason.

[Gale]

A bard gets six skill points, plus one skill point for each point of your INT modifier. INT modifiers are based on the raw ability score, i.e. 12 and 13 have a modifier of +1, so a bard with an INT score of 12 or 13 would get 7 skill points to be distributed at each level up.

Oh, okay. I did my skill points already actually and but I somehow misread that.

@Gavinfoxx: I have both books, why?

[Invader]

If you're leaving eking straight from 4th to 6th you'll receive hit points and skill points twice not just once.

[Red Fel]

If you're leaving eking straight from 4th to 6th you'll receive hit points and skill points twice not just once.

Yes, I forgot this - if you're going from 4-6, you'll allocate skill points twice. You'll also roll twice for hit points. You'll also choose (or not choose) your one spell swapped (since that happens at level 5).

The rest of the items listed replace existing numbers.

[Captnq]

Wow.

You just started playing and you took up bard? That's a harsh class to play effectively. I sent you some links. Check out the extrapolated WSAs and Base WSAs in the weapon handbook and keyword search bard. Oh, and look into instrument blades, lute-bows, and that sort of thing. Should make you more effective.

[Gavinfoxx]

Bard is a great class, but really starts to shine outside of core.

Have you read this?

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8686

And those two books contain things, like the rules for leveling up, that were left out of the SRD, is all.

[Curmudgeon]

@Gavinfoxx: I have both books, why?
Because the Player's Handbook has the list of all the steps you take when advancing a level on pages 58-59. Just run through that sequence twice if you're advancing two levels.

[Captnq]

Bard is a great class, but really starts to shine outside of core.


I didn't say it couldn't be effective. I said HARSH. As in, you really need to work at it. As in, he's new at this and it's the wrong class to learn the basics of the game on. Some people like to jump into the deep end of the pool, and that's fine. Me? I recommend a barbarian for anyone starting out. Single attribute dependent, simple combat options, simple powers, very few choices, but most of them effective in low level play.

For a new guy, you just upped the number of different books he needs to read to be a contributing member of the party by about fifteen. Here. I went I copied my notes on the most effective bard weapons.


Take a Lute-Bow.


LUTE-BOW
- CITYSCAPE (3.5)
Martial Ranged Weapon
Cost: 250 gp
Damage (s): 1d4
Damage (m): 1d6
Critical: x3
Range: 40 ft
Weight: 5 lb
Type: P
Ammo: Arrow
Search DC: 30
The upper layer of wood to which the strings are attached can be rotated with a standard action, so that the strings now lie perpendicular to the lute itself. The wood and the strings are treated to offer extra strength and resistance, allowing them to flex like a bow. Although it is held horizontally, like a crossbow, it is a hand-fired weapon, so it resembles a shortbow in usage. DC 30 to find.
Editor: Well, if you are a sneaky assassin with some serious poison, this could work. However, if you want to see something weird, check out the entry on instrument blade. Considering the description of the weapon requires that it be flexible, I do not think you can combine a lute-bow and an instrument blade. An instrument bayonet on the other hand is affixed to the lute, so I see no reason those two cannot work together.
Editor (Lute): This is from Song and Silence (3.0). This ancestor of the guitar has a pear-shaped bowl and a distinctive bent neck with frets for fingering. Between four and eight strings stretch between the base of the bowl and the top of the neck. Lutes vary between 30 and 36 inches in length, with the bowl taking up some two-thirds of that total. The musician either strums or plucks the strings to produce music. A highly versatile instrument because of its wide range of notes and inflection, the lute is accessible to the beginner but capable of great subtlety in the hands of a master. The deep bowl gives it a rich, full sound unlike that of any other stringed instrument. It is by far the most popular instrument with hards, especially half-elf and human ones.
Editor (Bardic Music): The most popular of the three prime bardic instruments, the lute enables a performer to maintain one bardic music or virtuoso performance effect while initiating another. Thus, a bard could maintain inspire competence on one listener while using suggestion on another.


take Hank's Energy Bow from the Animate Series Handbook and extrapolate out just the Energy Properties.


ENERGY
- ANIMATED SERIES HANDBOOK (3.5)
[HANK’S ENERGY BOW]
Price: 14,200 gp
Property: Bow
Caster Level: 6th
Aura: Moderate (DC 18) evocation
Activation: —
Although unstrung, it fires arrows of pure magical force that deal 2d6 points of damage. As they are force effects, the arrows do not suffer a miss chance when used against incorporeal creatures. The bow can be used to fire normal or magic arrows, but in such cases the bow does not confer its damage due to force. When drawn, the energy bow sheds light like a torch. In addition, you can use the bow to make power shots. To do so, before making attack rolls, choose a number to subtract from your attack rolls up to your base attack and add this same number to the damage dealt by the bow with any attack that hits. The penalty on attack rolls and bonus on damage rolls last until yours next turn.
Construction: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, magic missile
Editor: Awesome.


Add Shocking.

A lute with strings of force that crackle with electrical energy.

Add a Instrument Bayonet on the end.


INSTRUMENT BAYONET
- SONG AND SILENCE (3.0)
Martial Light Melee Weapon
Cost: 5 gp
Damage (s): 1d3
Damage (m): 1d4
Critical: 19-20/x2
Weight: 2 lb
Type: P
Sometimes a bard finds himself in a situation that requires self-defense at a few seconds’ notice. That’s when an instrument-mounted bayonet comes in handy. A bayonet (a long, thin dagger) affixed to the neck of a lute or other instrument can be used to fend off an attacker, or even to inflict respectable damage if set to receive a charge.
Editor: At first I thought the instrument bayonet and the instrument blade were the same thing, but they are not. An instrument blade can be hidden and comes out when triggered as a move action. An instrument bayonet is out all the time. All spring loaded hidden weapons comes with a built in -2 to hit, where as this weapon does not. An instrument blade can be thrown, this cannot. Both have their perks and downsides.


Give it the properties of a Songblade.


SONGBLADE
- ARMS AND EQUIPMENT GUIDE (3.0)
- COMPLETE ADVENTURER (3.5)
[SONGBLADE]
Price: 4,000 gp
Property: Melee
Caster Level: 8th
Aura: Moderate (DC 19) evocation
Activation: Wielded
Every move made with this rapier fills the air with sweet sounds. While holding a songblade unsheathed, the sword’s wielder gains a +2 enhancement bonus on Perform checks. A bard wielding a songblade can use her bardic music abilities one additional time per day. The blade is scored in a beautiful, intricate pattern, and air moving across this magical etching generates the music of a songblade. The blade’s musical qualities do not function underwater, in a vacuum, or in other environments where air cannot freely pass over the blade.
Construction: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, sculpt sound, creator must have bardic music class feature.
Editor: If you never plan of sneaking again, and are a bard, there are worse choices.
Editor (Bard WSAs): Definitely look into Songs and Echoblade.
Editor (Dragon Magazine 314): Heartfire Fanner PrC grants 5th lvl bardic music at 1st level. Not a big fan of dragon magazine (beta test, in my opinion), but if your DM allows you to use it, you really should look into it. That combined with this WSA and a number of others can give you multiple uses of Bardic Music that you can use to fuel your song based weaponry.


Also add Harmonizing WSA from MIC.


HARMONIZING
- CITY OF SPLENDORS WATERDEEP (3.5)
- MAGIC ITEM COMPENDIUM (3.5)
Price: +1 bonus
Property: Melee
Caster Level: 5th
Aura: Faint; (DC 17) illusion
Activation: Wielded; see text
Description: A strange melody seems to emanate from within this weapon.
A harmonizing weapon accompanies you in song if drawn, granting a +2 competence bonus on Perform (sing) checks. In addition, if you hold a harmonizing weapon when you begin a bardic music effect, the weapon can continue the effect for you, allowing you to focus on other efforts. One round after you begin a bardic music effect that allows or requires continued use or concentration (including inspire courage, countersong, fascinate, inspire competence, inspire greatness, song of freedom, and inspire heroics), the weapon picks up and continues the performance flawlessly for 10 rounds, until you start another bardic music effect, or until you command it to end as a swift (mental) action.
Construction: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, ghost sound, bardic music.
Editor: If you are a bard who wants a “singing sword”, this is the WA for you. Bards aren’t popular, but this might help make you more useful, so you can buff the rest of your party, then do something useful while your blade keeps the effect going. It doesn’t even say you have to keep holding the weapon. You could hold the dagger. Start the music effect, then put it back in it’s sheath, or drop it on the ground, or if your DM is a pain about it being held the whole time, buy flying or dancing.


and then add the Bow of songs properties to the lute-bow itself.


SONGS
- MAGIC ITEM COMPENDIUM (3.5)
[BOW OF SONGS]
Price: 10,000 gp
Property: Any Weapon
Caster Level: 8th
Aura: Moderate (DC 19) evocation
Activation: Swift (command)
On your turn, you can expend one daily use of your bardic music ability to gain a bonus equal to your Charisma bonus on the next attack roll and (if your attack hits) on the corresponding damage roll that you make with the weapon.
Construction: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, sculpt sound, elf, bardic music.
Editor: Being a bard sucks. Bards are jacks-of-all-trades and masters of none. They make great fifth members of a group, helping to round out a party and cover other people’s buts. However, sometimes you just need to kick ass. This is a bit on the expensive side, but after buying echoblade, you might want to consider buying this. Now, the original was on a ranged weapon. I believe that there is no reason you cannot use this on any weapon (but not ammunition). A DM being a bit more strict might wish to limit this to Ranged weapons, and Echoblade to melee weapons. However, let’s be honest, It’s hard enough being a bard, don’t take away one of the few cool combinations in the game as well.
Editor (Dragon Magazine 314): Heartfire Fanner PrC grants 5th lvl bardic music at 1st level. Not a big fan of dragon magazine (beta test, in my opinion), but if your DM allows you to use it, you really should look into it. That combined with this WSA and a number of others can give you multiple uses of Bardic Music that you can use to fuel your song based weaponry.


And if you want the overkill, add Echoblade to the instrument Bayonet


ECHOBLADE
- MAGIC ITEM COMPENDIUM (3.5)
[CRYSTAL ECHOBLADE]
Price: 2,000 gp
Property: Melee
Caster Level: 10th
Aura: Moderate (DC 20) evocation
Activation: Use Bardic Music Ability
If you use your bardic music ability while wielding the weapon, the blade resonates in harmony, dealing additional sonic damage on each attack equal to half your bard level.
Construction: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, bardic music
Editor: Holy Crap. For most people, this sucks, but every bard should drop the 2,000 gp to buy this.
Editor (Bardic WSAs): Using this isn’t a separate action, but a USE of your bardic music. So, lets say you buy this and the WSA Songs. Songs is a swift action to use one of your bardic music allotments. Since you are “using” bardic music, this kicks in. Although in that case, it only lasts for the next attack, since that’s how long the WSA Songs lasts. However, if you have bardic music running for a few rounds as you buff your party, this lasts as long as the buff does.
Editor (Dragon Magazine 314): Heartfire Fanner PrC grants 5th lvl bardic music at 1st level. Not a big fan of dragon magazine (beta test, in my opinion), but if your DM allows you to use it, you really should look into it. That combined with this WSA and a number of others can give you multiple uses of Bardic Music that you can use to fuel your song based weaponry.


Boom goes the dynamite.

That's 8 different books he'd need to hunt through on his own just to find all that information. And that's just weapons. I haven't even touched Alternate Class Features, Level Substitutions, and heaven forbid you look at the spells.

Do you really think for a starting player that a bard is easy to learn? I would dare say that of all the classes, bard requires more dumpster diving then any other. Now, if it's what he wants to play, it's what he wants to play. We should help him, no question about it. That doesn't make it any less harsh.

[Fax Celestis]

Do you really think for a starting player that a bard is easy to learn? I would dare say that of all the classes, bard requires more dumpster diving then any other. Now, if it's what he wants to play, it's what he wants to play. We should help him, no question about it. That doesn't make it any less harsh.

I think you're full of it. Bard is one of I'd say, three classes that aren't full casters in core that you can play core only and do just fine, the other two being barbarian and rogue.

You're not going to be a game ender or a world breaker, but you'll be capable of contributing almost all the time.

[Red Fel]

Do you really think for a starting player that a bard is easy to learn? I would dare say that of all the classes, bard requires more dumpster diving then any other. Now, if it's what he wants to play, it's what he wants to play. We should help him, no question about it. That doesn't make it any less harsh.

The implication of your statement is that if a Bard didn't go "dumpster diving" in all those books, he'd fail at his class.

I respectfully disagree.

Bard may not be as out-of-the-box perfect as, say, ToB classes, but it's pretty solid in its own right, and can cruise comfortably without multiclassing for quite a few (if not all) levels. It's not complicated, requires no spell preparation, and has more non-spell functionality than pure spellcasters. It also has a healthy dose of flavor.

Does going outside of core (however we are choosing to define that term in this thread) help the Bard? Yes. It helps any class. Is it required? Not really, although I'd probably recommend it at higher levels.

Fortunately for all of us, the merits or flaws of the core-Bard are not the subject of the OP. This was a simple inquiry into the mechanics of going up a level.

OP, I advise you to consider the advice offered by those in this thread with regard to your class choice. I do not advise you to change your class based solely on what you're being told Bards "must" or "must not" do. Play what you enjoy, and happy leveling.

[JusticeZero]

How to effectively play a Bard is not quite as obvious as some other classes though, so it's worth checking for tips.

[Gale]

I've actually been looking all over the place for advice on how to effectively play a Bard character. I was mostly attracted to it because of it's high social skills; I wanted to be someone who could essentially smooth-talk his way through urban situations then lay back and cast musical buffs for my party during combat.
Admittedly, I do realize now the Bard isn't exactly the best starting class for someone new to D&D. But I'm willing to stick with it and do the research. I would always rather play an atypical character, even if it's not particularly a good one, than play the standard fighter. I just have more fun that way.
I'm really appreciating all the advice, guys.

[JusticeZero]

Oh, well yes, a Bard makes a great "Face" character. And yes, musical buffs are good. But definitely look into your spells - you want a bunch of spells to support your party and spells to make the enemy unable to do things, along with things like Glibness so you can do stuff like this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0767.html) to people.

[The Insanity]

I have to ask: Do your co-players and DM not exist outside of the game?

[dascarletm]

I have to ask: Do your co-players and DM not exist outside of the game?
Obligatory white text


I would go ask them about it but I'm not sure they're free right now. (Plus it's raining and I don't have a car.)