Eternal Wands

[ImaDeadMan]

My friend wants to acquire an Eternal Wand of Magic Missile. The chart in MIC (pg. 159) doesn't really help us since he wants the wand to be created by a 9th level caster to maximize the number of missiles per use of the wand and there's no given equation to determine the cost of such a wand. I would appreciate any help with this matter :smallsmile:

[Zero grim]

the price of a wand of 9th CL magic missile should be something like this.

18,000g for use activated magic missle at CL 9.
7,200g to limit it to 2 uses a day.

so 7,200g would be a baseline amount for the DM to work with I guess, I don't know if eternal wands use a different formula, if they do I don't know it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Eternal Wand pricing appears to be: (Spell Level x Caster Level x 720) + 100 gp

So Spell Level 1 x Caster Level 9 x 720 = 6480, +100 = 6,580 gp for an Eternal Wand of a 1st level spell at a caster level of 9.

[Helcack]

7200 GP would be the cost
use-activated/continuous item spell level(1)xcaster level(9)x2000 GP/charges per day(5/charges(2))=1x9x2000/2.5=7200 GP
Edit: Swordsaged >.<

[visigani]

My friend wants to acquire an Eternal Wand of Magic Missile. The chart in MIC (pg. 159) doesn't really help us since he wants the wand to be created by a 9th level caster to maximize the number of missiles per use of the wand and there's no given equation to determine the cost of such a wand. I would appreciate any help with this matter :smallsmile:

Tell him no. Problem solved.

You're better off with a normal wand anyway. 50 charges of magic missile at 9th caster level will last you a pretty long time. Remember, eternal wands typically get 2 charges were day.


Try this instead:
The Gems of Silvered Fury
"This multifaceted tranbsparent grey colored crystal is struck through and through with veins of silvery metal. A Gem of Silvered Fury fits snugly into the palm if hand and seems to hum in with barely restrained force. They stay in place until removed but they make it impossible to hold any other item in your hands effectively. They may be removed as a free action, but re-attaching one or both of them requires a standard action."

Wielding a single Gem of Silvered Fury provides the following benefits:
Three times per day the Gem of Silvery Fury casts Force Missiles (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20020809a) at caster level 9.

Wielding two Gems of Silvered Fury provide the following benefits:
If you have a Force spell prepared or are able to cast a Force Spell Once per round you may make a touch attack that duplicates the effect of the spell Battering Ram with the following changes. You use your primary spell casting ability score modifier as a bonus to damage, and you use the level of your highest level force spell as a bonus to hit.
You gain: Force Needle (Reserve Feat) as a bonus feat.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Just to note, the 7,200 gp price that two people have come up with is based on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm), or Table 7-33 on DMG page 285. Also note that this section of the DMG states that you should compare the pricing of similar published items before you stampede to Table 7-33. The four existing Eternal Wands (assuming spell level 0 is counted as 1/2 for pricing as usual) are all priced at (Spell Level x Caster Level x 720) + 100 gp, so this formula should likewise be used for any new Eternal Wands' pricing. Note that the table's pricing is based on an unrestricted activation method, whereas only someone capable of casting arcane spells can activate an Eternal Wand, hence the slightly lower price.

[ImaDeadMan]

Thank you all for your replies. You've been very helpful.

[Chronos]

It seems to me that it's not even possible to create an Eternal Wand at a caster level higher than default. They're not as flexible as normal wands that way.

And eternal wands are only really worthwhile if you, first, expect to cast the spell every day, and second, never expect to cast the spell more than twice per day. You could, for instance, make good use of an eternal wand of Extended Rope Trick, to always have a safe resting spot, or of Explosive Runes, to fill up a trap book during downtime (though if you do this latter one, be prepared for the DM to blow up your PHB in your face). For something like Magic Missile, though, you won't be using it at all on days when you're not adventuring, and when you are adventuring, two castings a day isn't going to be nearly enough to be practical. Just get a normal wand, and by the time you use it up, you'll probably be able to afford a new one easily.

[Amphetryon]

It seems to me that it's not even possible to create an Eternal Wand at a caster level higher than default.
Do you have a citation for this, or is it merely how it works at your table?

[eggynack]

Do you have a citation for this, or is it merely how it works at your table?
It's not really a thing that needs to be cited. More accurately, you would need to cite a location in the eternal wand's rules that says that you can change the caster level, and I don't think there is one.

[Chronos]

The rules for wands give a formula for the price that's based on the spell level and caster level. The rules for eternal wands do not give a formula, but merely a table that shows the price for a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level spell. Therefore, there are no CL 9 eternal wands for the same reason that there are no eternal wands of Wish.

[Amphetryon]

It's not really a thing that needs to be cited. More accurately, you would need to cite a location in the eternal wand's rules that says that you can change the caster level, and I don't think there is one.

Is there a passage that indicates that the ability to chance Caster level for regular wands is specifically excluded in eternal wands?

[eggynack]

Is there a passage that indicates that the ability to chance Caster level for regular wands is specifically excluded in eternal wands?
There doesn't need to be one. Eternal wands are just a completely separate item from regular wands, with their own set of rules.

Edit: Also, it has a table for spell levels and their associated caster levels. A second level spell just always has a caster level of 3, because that's what it says on the table.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It's in the core rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel):

For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.
The caster level is determined by the creator. The printed caster level for any given item is what it will have when you find one as loot. When creating your own magic items, or getting them commissioned by an NPC, those items can have a caster level higher or lower than the default that's printed depending on the character creating the item.

[eggynack]

It's in the core rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel):

The caster level is determined by the creator. The printed caster level for any given item is what it will have when you find one as loot. When creating your own magic items, or getting them commissioned by an NPC, those items can have a caster level higher or lower than the default that's printed depending on the character creating the item.
Yes. The caster level of wands is determined by the creator. Eternal wands are not wands. Eternal wands are eternal wands. More importantly, there is absolutely no provision in the eternal wand rules for increasing the caster level of the spell in question. Any pricing you put on such an item would essentially be a houserule.

[Studoku]

Eternal wands are not wands.
So they're "other magic items"? As in "For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator."?

[eggynack]

So they're "other magic items"? As in "For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator."?
Hmm, perhaps. However, are you sure that the caster level of the wand necessarily determines the caster level of the spell couched within the wand?

[TuggyNE]

Hmm, perhaps. However, are you sure that the caster level of the wand necessarily determines the caster level of the spell couched within the wand?

Pretty sure, yes;
Caster Level
The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form "CL x," where "CL" is an abbreviation for caster level and "x" is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself.

Aside: Whenever I quote that page I feel a little bad because it sounds condescending. Which isn't my intent.

[eggynack]

Pretty sure, yes;

Aside: Whenever I quote that page I feel a little bad because it sounds condescending. Which isn't my intent.
Also perhaps. Still, I'm not sure if the caster level of the spell on the eternal wand is a variable factor that can be determined by the caster level of the item. It seems possible that the caster level of the spells, which are explicitly given on the item, replaces the caster level of the item. It feels vaguely like a specific versus general issue. I don't know for sure though. Haven't looked too deeply into this branch of the rules before.

[T.G. Oskar]

Just to note, the 7,200 gp price that two people have come up with is based on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm), or Table 7-33 on DMG page 285. Also note that this section of the DMG states that you should compare the pricing of similar published items before you stampede to Table 7-33. The four existing Eternal Wands (assuming spell level 0 is counted as 1/2 for pricing as usual) are all priced at (Spell Level x Caster Level x 720) + 100 gp, so this formula should likewise be used for any new Eternal Wands' pricing. Note that the table's pricing is based on an unrestricted activation method, whereas only someone capable of casting arcane spells can activate an Eternal Wand, hence the slightly lower price.

Actually, the pricing as presented in the MIC is as you say, but for a different reason: Eternal Wands are considered "command word"-activated items, so their base price is 1,800 gp x spell level x caster level. Since it has 2 charges, the price is dropped by 2/5ths, and 1800 x (2/5) equals 720 gp. The extra 100 gp is for the Khyber dragonshard (which can be enchanted with magic items). Thus, the cost for an Eternal Wand of Magic Missile (CL 9th) would be 6,580 gp. The lower price isn't because of unrestricted activation methods, but because of the combination of a command word method of activation plus the limited charges.

That would also imply you can build Eternal Wands with more than one charge (1,800 x spell level x caster level x [number of charges/5] + 100 for the dragonshard), in any case. Eternal Wands use the same method as many items in the DMG, so it's possible to build Eternal Wands with better CL or more charges, so as long as the DM allows it.

[Pickford]

My friend wants to acquire an Eternal Wand of Magic Missile. The chart in MIC (pg. 159) doesn't really help us since he wants the wand to be created by a 9th level caster to maximize the number of missiles per use of the wand and there's no given equation to determine the cost of such a wand. I would appreciate any help with this matter :smallsmile:

You can't. The fixed CL on a 1st level spell is 1st for 820gp. Eternal Wands are more suited to things like Light spells, or perhaps Knock.