Ideas for Meepo the Kobold?

[Caligstro Smith]

I'm running the Sunless Citadel adventure module, and there's a named kobold character, Meepo, that often ends up interacting with the players. He's in charge of keeping the clan's wyrmling white dragon pet/mascot happy and safe, but it was stolen by goblins.

My party has had Meepo assigned to go along with them while they try to reacquire the dragon. I'm trying to make him something that the players really care about, and so far it's been fairly successful.

Looking ahead to when they finish the dungeon, if Meepo survives, there's a possibility that they may want to take him with them, and by that point I'll have him start acquiring class levels (behind the party ofc). But I can't decide which way to go with him.

I'm hoping for class or build ideas for him fitting into these things about him:


He's fairly cowardly, pitiful, and depressed, having been abused by his clan as a runt/weakling of low social status.

No spellcasting, as if he even had rudimentary knowledge of it, he wouldn't have the low social status he does.

He has a close connection with the wyrmling white dragon, Calcryx, and he's said he's the only one in the clan who "gets" Calcyrx and can interact with him normally.

He's reasonably intelligent, and likes designing traps as a hobby.



He also could be of any variant of kobold, as they type of kobold his clan is hasn't been fixed yet/been described/asked about.

[Hyde]

A ranger that trades spellcasting for a more powerful animal companion (like maybe a white wyrmling?).

alternately, a rogue of some kind.

[Madcrafter]

Heh, only one who "gets" Calcryx. Just make sure the PCs don't bring him into the room the dragon is being kept in, or it'll rip him to shreds.

I don't see Meepo being type to go on with the PCs. With the dragon's return, his status will be repaired and I think he'd prefer to stay. Plus, the clan leader probably wouldn't let him leave at that point, since she doesn't have someone else to keep the dragon. He could sneak off, but being as submissive as he is it seems doubtful.

If he does start gaining some PC levels though, I'd go with spell-less ranger or rogue, drawing on his sneaky cravenness or ability to work with creatures.

[Karnith]

I take it that you wouldn't be interested in the Meepo builds from the D&D Fight Club article (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060120a) in which he was statted up later in life?

[Caligstro Smith]

A ranger that trades spellcasting for a more powerful animal companion (like maybe a white wyrmling?).


Is that actually possible? The only spellcasting trades I know of are Champion of the Wild, which trades it for a limited fighter feat selection every 4th level or so, and generally is bad, or the CW spell-less ranger variant, that just gets fast movement and a few wimpy spell-likes?

Actually the only ranger improvement to companion I could find is the fangshield ranger 4th sub level, which nets you a +2 on your effective druid level over normal rangers? Well that and natural bond ofc, but that's a given.

Also can you even get dragons as animal companions? W/o just house-ruling/fiat-ing it? They're all new players and I'm initially trying to keep the rule-bending to an absolute minimum while they learn the system and what's "normal" before I start bending things. Especially since there are both a ranger and a druid in the party, and I don't really want them to start looking for dragon companions too.

Also to clarify: I guess it'd be okay if he eventually ended up with casting, or partial casting, or whatever, as long as it's not before level 2 or 3, and well after he'd have already left his clan.

[Gavinfoxx]

The feats 'Dragon Cohort' and 'Dragon Steed' are a thing.

[Caligstro Smith]

I take it that you wouldn't be interested in the Meepo builds from the D&D Fight Club article (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060120a) in which he was statted up later in life?

That's pretty cool -- I'd thought about dragon disciple as a possibility farther down the road, but that's quite a way down since he'll be behind the pcs, and they're only just getting to level 2 this past session. I had no idea he'd been statted up like that before.


Regarding him probably not leaving his tribe: I can imagine several reasons he'd end up leaving them:

Being the dragon keeper was low-status anyway. And his record for failure to keep it safe in the first place won't go away just b/c some others came and fixed his mistake for him.
The clan might not be around by the time the PCs finish the dungeon. The kobold queen is kinda touchy about being respected all the time, and the party has 3 CN guys in it, and an LG cleric who's currently not too pleased with the way the clan is so abusive toward meepo.
The PCs might insist he come along for his own good (see the LG cleric above trying to get him out of his crappy lot in life)


anyway the planning is for in the event he doesn't die and does end up leaving the clan. If that doesn't happen then oh well -- I guess I'll have another unused npc ready for quick use in some other game, which is never a bad thing.

[Oko and Qailee]

He's fairly cowardly, pitiful, and depressed, having been abused by his clan as a runt/weakling of low social status.

No spellcasting, as if he even had rudimentary knowledge of it, he wouldn't have the low social status he does.

He has a close connection with the wyrmling white dragon, Calcryx, and he's said he's the only one in the clan who "gets" Calcyrx and can interact with him normally.

He's reasonably intelligent, and likes designing traps as a hobby.

.

I feel like slipping craven in there might work for him, but then he'd have to be a rogue. Since he was watching over the white wyrm I would have suggested something like Dragon Familiar feat.... but that requires level 7 spellcasting

Is there a ranger variant that provides a wyrm familiar?

[Gavinfoxx]

Dragon Cohort just requires character level 9... give him weak classes to make up for his extra levels, maybe?

[Oko and Qailee]

The feats 'Dragon Cohort' and 'Dragon Steed' are a thing.

Basically this!

[Ravens_cry]

Alternatively, you can outfit him like this.
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9961/b7wo.jpg

[Coidzor]

If you're alright with cribbing from PF, there's a ranger variant that exchanges casting for making traps quickly, also magical traps, IIRC. Also, as he'd be below a 4th level ranger (and not a Mystic Ranger, either) while he was with the tribe, magic would be irrelevant to his status.

I'd probably modulate his development based upon the party's make up, personalities, and how they treat him. Might make one variant that's got things like Beast Heart Adept and/or Beastmaster, one where he goes Dragon Steed pseudo-to-actual supermount(insofar as he can), one where he's a stealthy natural-weapons (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)based rogue/assassin type, and one where he "becomes" dragonwrought somehow and basically becomes just about as dragonny as a little dragonman can dragon.

[JaronK]

How about just Wilderness Rogue combined with the Kobold racial substitution levels? That makes him a Rogue who's good with animals and great with traps.

JaronK

[Coidzor]

How about just Wilderness Rogue combined with the Kobold racial substitution levels? That makes him a Rogue who's good with animals and great with traps.

JaronK

That does sound suspiciously straightforward...

[Caligstro Smith]

OH MY GOODNESS! That Greater Draconic Rite of Passage in the web enhancement you linked, Coidzor, is crazy! (not using it for meepo ofc, it's getting filed away for future reference for sure)

Also wilderness rogue does actually seem to be pretty appropriate... It's a variant I never really noticed before. And aren't there rules for applying handle animal to magical beasts somewhere? I know dragons are their own type and wouldn't count there, but I don't feel like it's making TOO big a leap, in this case, and the mechanics would be entirely transparent to the players anyway. If Calcryx ended up staying in the picture too the RP context and content would likely avert the need for a mechanical explanation anyway.


If going for the "Dragon-y as a little dragonman can dragon" route, what are the things to most consider? I can think of:

Dragonborn of Bahamut
Draconic Template
Dragonwrought feat
Soverign Archetype (can dragonwrought kobolds get these? I can't remember)
Draconic Heritage Feats
Draconic Feats
Dragonfire Adept base class
Dragon Shaman base class
Dragon Disciple prc


The dragon-y route was the one I first thought of before I posted anything.

[Ravens_cry]

Sounds like a bad idea from the Law of Unintended Consequences
If you are using Handle Animal on Dragons, players will want to as well, and, frankly, I can't think of a fair reason not to. Given how darn cheap it is to boost skill bonuses, somebody saying 'Heel!' successfully to the big Ancient Wyrm boss battle is just boring as Shivering Touch.

[JaronK]

I suppose you could make Meepo and Dragonwrought Dragonborn Kobold, and then just not give him any of the cheesy stuff. That way instead of him handling the dragon with his new "handle dragons" ability, it's instead that the dragon likes other dragons and Meepo counts. Sovereign archetypes are available to Kobolds, but this is a weak NPC... those would make him into a super being. If you really wanted you could give him the Improved Dragon Wings feat, but I wouldn't.

Then just stick with Wilderness Kobold Rogue 6.

JaronK

[Coidzor]

OH MY GOODNESS! That Greater Draconic Rite of Passage in the web enhancement you linked, Coidzor, is crazy! (not using it for meepo ofc, it's getting filed away for future reference for sure)

You want crazy? :smallbiggrin: Try having someone consider Dragonwrought Kobolds to be True Dragons, slapping Loredrake (From Dragons of Eberron, IIRC) on them, having them take the greater draconic rite of passage, and then slapping the Spellhoarding form of Dragon Insanity(Dragon magazine 313) on their butts. Loredrake gives +2 levels of sorcerer casting and does some other things. Spellhoarding (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219374)turns all that sorcerer casting into wizard casting and some other things like enabling them to use their own hide as their personal spellbook.

Loredrake on more traditional dragons has some trade-offs, but can be a great tool for a DM to make a more potent magical threat to the party. Spellhoarding lets you turn a dragon from a dragon into the hypothetical offspring of Batman and a Dragon.


Also wilderness rogue does actually seem to be pretty appropriate... It's a variant I never really noticed before. And aren't there rules for applying handle animal to magical beasts somewhere?

The only thing I'm remembering at the moment is unupdated 3.0 content, like the X-trainer line of feats which lets one use handle animal to train creatures with Int of 4 or less as if they were animals. I believe there's a Dragon Trainer feat which lets one do much the same with dragons from Races of the Dragon, though I think that's Int 6 or lower.

Meepo qualifies for Dragon Trainer, actually, IIRC. I think he has ranks in Handle Animal, anyway.

[Karnith]

And aren't there rules for applying handle animal to magical beasts somewhere?
Handle Animal can be used on any creature with Int 1 or 2 at the normal skill check DC +5. Other than that and the stuff that Coidzor talked about, though, I'm not sure there's anything else.

[Asteron]

WOTC (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060120a) made him a werefleshraker... kinda ridiculous.

[Ravens_cry]

Handle Animal can be used on any creature with Int 1 or 2 at the normal DC +5. Other than that and the aforementioned stuff that Coidzor talked about, though, I'm not sure there's anything else.
Does that mean if you negate (through damage or drain) a Dragon's intelligence enough, you can command it like an animal?
Oh, bother.:smallannoyed:

[Rijan_Sai]

While I realize that this is slightly against the "spirit" of the thread, I would like to present an anecdotal scenario:

We...kind of inadvertently left him (and everyone else alive in there...) to their fate...

*OBLIGATORY SPOILER WARNING*
(For the Sunless Citadel? I'm sure there are some...)

That said, S-Blocked for those that don't really want to read it
In a recent game, we were playing some ridiculously high powered "characters-that-should-not-exist." For fun, we ran through the SC, (fully intending to demolish just about everything in there.) Anyway, long-story-short (too late!) at the end of the adventure, (after defeating the Druid,) our BSF, realizing that the Gulthias Tree is evil, decided to chop it down, and tear it out by the roots! (Only took a little bit of effort...I did say BIG Stupid Fighter, right?) Now, as players, most of us realized what this meant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm), but in-character, we were all slightly shocked to see the central root was long, straight and pointed...kind of like a wooden stake...and seemed to be dripping slightly with...blood? (Hard to tell in the bioluminescence lighting the place!):smallamused:

[Deadline]

Wilderness Rogue with the Draconic Aura feat from Dragon Magic (he's a dragonblooded kobold, right?). Pick up a couple auras in this manner (and the Double Draconic Aura feat). Then, when he hits high enough level, take the Dragon Cohort feat. The auras help make him useful to the party, and his rogue skills and wilderness leaning keep the flavor you were looking for. He could even head into Combat Trapsmith.

You could plop a level of a spontaneous arcane caster on him at a later level to qualify for Dragon Disciple, if you wanted to go down that route.

[Caligstro Smith]

I suppose you could make Meepo and Dragonwrought Dragonborn Kobold, and then just not give him any of the cheesy stuff. That way instead of him handling the dragon with his new "handle dragons" ability, it's instead that the dragon likes other dragons and Meepo counts. Sovereign archetypes are available to Kobolds, but this is a weak NPC... those would make him into a super being. If you really wanted you could give him the Improved Dragon Wings feat, but I wouldn't.

Then just stick with Wilderness Kobold Rogue 6.

JaronK

Oh, to clarify my list of dragon-y stuff was more just trying to get a handle on all the stuff that a kobold can look at if trying to be as dragon-y as possible.

I wouldn't use it all for this character since it is supposed to be a weak one.

I'll still keep it in mind though in case I ever get the urge to play a kobold in a high power game.



He could even head into Combat Trapsmith.

Also, what's Combat Trapsmith from? I've never heard of it?

[Coidzor]

Also, what's Combat Trapsmith from? I've never heard of it?

Complete Scoundrel, IIRC.


WOTC (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060120a) made him a werefleshraker... kinda ridiculous.

Well, there are worse things a party could do to their henchmen...


Does that mean if you negate (through damage or drain) a Dragon's intelligence enough, you can command it like an animal?
Oh, bother.:smallannoyed:

Hey, it's a potential combat use for Restoration, no? Heck, not just Dragons, just about anything, including humanoid opponents.

Dread Warriors without even needing to kill them an reanimate them! :smallbiggrin: