[13 age] Ideas for my rogue

[Rushalt]

Ok so after they kicked my sorcerer out of the party for being to cruel (I had 3 favor with the ancient red what did they expect) I have decided to make a rogue. So far I've decided to go with being a wood-elf for the chance to get an extra action in a round. my starting stats atm are 8/16/18/8/10/16 and im also starting at lvl 2 to catch up with the party. The talents im taking are shadow walk, improved sneak attack and thievery, ill be using 2 wicked knives for weapons. Ok now for the fluff He was exiled by his wood-elf brethren for an act that he refuses to bring up (haven't actually thought of what it would be yet). Then he moves into the city and quickly realizes that to survive in the city he needs to take advantage of every opportunity he sees arise even if he has to make things happen himself. So the backgrounds I picked to use are one with nature +3 master of the city +5 and then ranking member of the thieves guild(thievery)+5. Icons I took were 2 prince of shadows and 1 for elf queen (so what I was exiled for shouldn't be so horrible that im loathed by all elves just something bad enough for my ilk to disown me). Ran out of time to do feats so any help with those or idea on how to improve him or feedback are all welcome. PS thank you for reading my novel.

[JusticeZero]

they kicked my sorcerer out of the party for being to cruel...
..(Rogue).. He was exiled by his wood-elf brethren for an act that he refuses to bring up..
I would be somewhat wary of having history repeat itself.

[ArcturusV]

Pretty much my thought. If you were kicked from the party for being too dark and evil... why make another character who is dark and evil? Or at least could easily go that way? You could alter your past just slightly by adding "Falsely Accused" or something, still have a lot of the same details, hooks, and traits involved, but be quite far away from being potentially Evil.

But it'd also lead to a massively different character in how you played out interactions and motivations. So there's that.

[Rushalt]

The rogue isn't gonna be cruel or anything he's gonna be more along the lines of chaotic neutral. And for the reason he was exiled I was thinking accidentally killed a fellow clansman during a sparring match or something along those lines so it was something to cause him to be exiled but not executed. My sorcerer was cruel because that's how I made him and his background was he has had to fight for his survival since the age of 5 when he was abandoned in the woods, so his view on life was ill kill anybody that's in my way or that would benifit me simply because he doesn't value life.

[Curmudgeon]

I would advise you to steer clear of anything resembling Chaotic behavior. Being a helpful member of the party (a team player rather than individually motivated) would be advisable for any Rogue. Rogues have lots of nifty abilities, but they're also pretty squishy. As a consequence, they do better when they can rely on support (i.e., they don't end up getting killed).

[Toshiro]

What type of rogue you're thinking of? Skill Monkey, Combat, or Party Face? Then i'll recommend some stuff for you.

[Rushalt]

I would advise you to steer clear of anything resembling Chaotic behavior. Being a helpful member of the party (a team player rather than individually motivated) would be advisable for any Rogue. Rogues have lots of nifty abilities, but they're also pretty squishy. As a consequence, they do better when they can rely on support (i.e., they don't end up getting killed).

Good point I was thinking more towards helping them would be helping me kind of thing figured that would be chaotic neutral since it would be all about himself not necessarily a ruthless killer but more of a calculated killer weighing risk vs reward on just about every encounter. Or would that be more true neutral?



What type of rogue you're thinking of? Skill Monkey, Combat, or Party Face? Then i'll recommend some stuff for you.

Since I've have only had about 8 hours of gameplay experience with 13th age I've been more focused on combat I guess. I only say combat because while making him I was thinking shadow walk pop to whoever is engaged with the tank then next turn evasive strike or tumble strike to get away and then rinse and repeat. However I did take thievery as a talent so I have that extra thievery background now which will lend itself to helping skill checks. Is there another way to increase stats sans backgrounds?

[Larkas]

Good point I was thinking more towards helping them would be helping me kind of thing figured that would be chaotic neutral since it would be all about himself not necessarily a ruthless killer but more of a calculated killer weighing risk vs reward on just about every encounter. Or would that be more true neutral?

The way you're describing it is squarely neutral evil, though I understand that's not necessarily how you'd play it. Chaotic neutral can be the pyromaniac that doesn't like his fun to produce victims, for example.

Then again, you're playing 13th Age. Why are you constraining yourself to alignments?

[Toshiro]

I've never actually played 13th Age, but here is what I recommend for feats. Darkstalker is one of the most important feats any stealthy character can get and it allows the user not to be detected by people with tremorsense, scent, etc. Craven allows you to apply your character level to sneak attack damage so this allows you to deal more damage. Telling Blow is one of my favorites. When you score a crit, you can apply your sneak attack damage to it.

[Rushalt]

The way you're describing it is squarely neutral evil, though I understand that's not necessarily how you'd play it. Chaotic neutral can be the pyromaniac that doesn't like his fun to produce victims, for example.

Then again, you're playing 13th Age. Why are you constraining yourself to alignments?

I wasn't going to while playing was mainly using them to convey how I saw my character and his attitude toward things but I guess it would help if I got the alignments correct lol.


I've never actually played 13th Age, but here is what I recommend for feats. Darkstalker is one of the most important feats any stealthy character can get and it allows the user not to be detected by people with tremorsense, scent, etc. Craven allows you to apply your character level to sneak attack damage so this allows you to deal more damage. Telling Blow is one of my favorites. When you score a crit, you can apply your sneak attack damage to it.

I don't have the book with me it's the dm's but once saturday rolls around and we play again ill take a look at those. Darkstalker sounds nice and telling blow seems great.

[JusticeZero]

Right, and as noted, I would be hesitant to bring in an evil character in a group where one was just made to remove a character for being too evil. I'd be hesitant to bring in chaotic, even. I like to be able to play in groups instead of burning bridges by doing the same objectionable things over and over.

[Rushalt]

Right, and as noted, I would be hesitant to bring in an evil character in a group where one was just made to remove a character for being too evil. I'd be hesitant to bring in chaotic, even. I like to be able to play in groups instead of burning bridges by doing the same objectionable things over and over.

The main thing they had a problem with is that my sorcerer tried to murder everything and refused to go into buildings since he spent all his life outside buildings didn't sit well with him. So it was more of me just actually playing the character with his back story. As far as the group goes its people I work with while we are at work and I used "kicked the character out" loosely since it was my decision to make a new character since how I was playing wasn't how they wanted to play, they are more cautious about how they go about things more so than the normal people I play shadowrun with where its more of a well why don't we just gas the entire ship if we can't outright kill them in normal combat kind of a group which is the perfect type of character I had with my sorcerer. So I felt that he was already pigeon holed as a lets kill this guy and then this guy then burn the building down and hope we find a letter or something to keep us on the right path kinda character and that it would be easier to just make a new character and kinda hide how he truly feels. So even though hes gonna be part of the group to reap rewards for himself they are free to feel like he's an integral part of a loyal band of adventurers.

[Toshiro]

Craven (http://dndtools.eu/feats/champions-of-ruin--27/craven--484/)
Darkstalker (http://dndtools.eu/feats/lords-of-madness--72/darkstalker--512/)
Telling Blow (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/telling-blow--2895/)

Have you thought of predigesting into another class? I have some wonderful ideas if you are and I have some other ideas as well. With the Daring Outlaw (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-scoundrel--60/daring-outlaw--508/) feat, you could do something as easy as Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16 that allows you to have alot of combat potential. The Two-Weapon Fighting tree is very essensial to strikers for damage output. (Two-Weapon Fighting (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-v35--6/two-weapon-fighting--2998/), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-v35--6/improved-two-weapon-fighting--1593/), and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (http://dndtools.eu/feats/deities-and-demigods--39/greater-two-weapon-fighting--1309/)) Weapon Finesse (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-v35--6/weapon-finesse--3103/) allows you to use your DEX for your attack bonus while Shadow Blade (http://dndtools.eu/feats/tome-of-battle-the-book-of-nine-swords--88/shadow-blade--2556/) is a follow up to Weapon Finesse. That allows you to use your DEX for damage instead of your STR. (Gloom Razer (http://dndtools.eu/feats/tome-of-battle-the-book-of-nine-swords--88/gloom-razor--1232/) is also a really good tactical feat if you get Shadow Blade.) Elusive Target (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-warrior--61/elusive-target--841/) is an awesome tactical feat that allows you to negate power attack, but you have to get Dodge and Mobility in order to get it. Here is some more feats, again, any ideas for predigesting?

[Larkas]

Their behavior is rather weird, considering that 13th Age is supposed to be more cinematic and daring than other d20 games. Eh, I guess that you can't fully enjoy the game unless you give up several "standard" RPG preconceptions.

Which brings me to my next point. I understand that you're using the alignment system as a way to express the way you picture your character, but by doing so, you might be unintentionally straightjacketing yourself.

If I could give you an example of a "Chaotic Neutral-like" burglar type of character, I'd point you towards Cat Woman. You may like to take a few hints from her. She's much deeper than Chaotic Neutral, though, but that's kind of the point.

And Toshiro? Wrong system.

[Toshiro]

And Toshiro? Wrong system.

It's in the D&D 3e/3.5e/d20 section. I never played 13th Age, thought it was something else. If anything, this should have been posted here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=60).

[Larkas]

It's in the D&D 3e/3.5e/d20 section. I never played 13th Age, thought it was something else. If anything, this should have been posted here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=60).

13th Age is d20. As is Legend. Both are thoroughly incompatible with 3.5, and still this is the right subforum to talk about them. Understandable mistake, though.

[Rushalt]

Craven (http://dndtools.eu/feats/champions-of-ruin--27/craven--484/)
Darkstalker (http://dndtools.eu/feats/lords-of-madness--72/darkstalker--512/)
Telling Blow (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/telling-blow--2895/)

Have you thought of predigesting into another class? I have some wonderful ideas if you are and I have some other ideas as well. With the Daring Outlaw (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-scoundrel--60/daring-outlaw--508/) feat, you could do something as easy as Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16 that allows you to have alot of combat potential. The Two-Weapon Fighting tree is very essensial to strikers for damage output. (Two-Weapon Fighting (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-v35--6/two-weapon-fighting--2998/), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-v35--6/improved-two-weapon-fighting--1593/), and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (http://dndtools.eu/feats/deities-and-demigods--39/greater-two-weapon-fighting--1309/)) Weapon Finesse (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-v35--6/weapon-finesse--3103/) allows you to use your DEX for your attack bonus while Shadow Blade (http://dndtools.eu/feats/tome-of-battle-the-book-of-nine-swords--88/shadow-blade--2556/) is a follow up to Weapon Finesse. That allows you to use your DEX for damage instead of your STR. (Gloom Razer (http://dndtools.eu/feats/tome-of-battle-the-book-of-nine-swords--88/gloom-razor--1232/) is also a really good tactical feat if you get Shadow Blade.) Elusive Target (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-warrior--61/elusive-target--841/) is an awesome tactical feat that allows you to negate power attack, but you have to get Dodge and Mobility in order to get it. Here is some more feats, again, any ideas for predigesting?

Yea when you were talking about them earlier they sounded more 3.5 but since I haven't looked at the feats for rogues yet in 13th age I wasn't gonna say anything since I wasn't sure if they were in the book or not. Since 13th age is based on a d20 system that's why I posted to this section same as how Numenera is a d20 based system but the gameplay and character building is completely different than DnD.

[Rushalt]

Ok so we played again and this character is fitting in fairly well. However I have found a few magic items that I have questions about in regards to how they may or may not stack with shadow walk. I rolled a 5 on my favor check so I had a chance to buy a magic dagger which I did because you know common sense. Turns out it was an abandoned dagger which means the first hit I do with it deals an extra 2d6. So at this point as a lvl 2 rogue I do 2d8 with my normal dagger attack then another 1d8 if I attack an enemy who is engaged with an ally. Now obviously I use shadow walk when I can so I get the appear behind someone and do 2x dmg with the next attack. We were calculating the dmg as (2d8+2d6+1d8+4)x2 which was a decent amount of dmg and slightly on the OP side of things but its that dmg every 2 rounds so its not crazy OP. However, while questing I just found ambidextrous gloves which let me with attack with an offhand weapon if I hit with a natural roll of 16+. So lets say everything goes as planned and I get to roll (2d8+1d8+2d6+4)x2+(2d8+4) with the second attack gaining a +11 to hit. So averaging that out its about 52 dmg and that doesnt include the chance of getting a crit. So now im like ok is it because the dice have been nice to me and ive gotten really helpful items or am I calculating how shadow walk does dmg wrong because (from memory) it says to double the dmg dealt with the first rogue attack after reappearing. So ive been calculating the overall dmg I do with my first attack then I double it or should I only be doubling the 2d8 dmg I do from the normal dagger attack and not double the crit dmg and/ or the magic dmg from abandoned. The DM and I have been discussing just doubling the dmg from the 2d8 and not the other but I feel like it would make my rogue alot weaker to the point where I wouldn't be able to contribute to the group (the normal don't touch my beloved character I spent an hour making because I found a way to stack dmg reaction players have) in a way that seems fair. O and rangers are way OP period my only guess is the creators of 13th age were always made to play rangers in 3.5 and decided they wanted to make them the best class as payback.