A straight monk that doesn't completely suck

[gooddragon1]

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[ArcturusV]

I think I'm missing something... but isn't Unarmed Attack set up in such a way that even if you have multiple arms/legs, you can't get extra weapon attacks off it? So even with 4 arms you only get 1 Unarmed Strike? I suppose you can get around it by using a weapon. But then you lose out on the improved unarmed damage unless you pop out Scorpion Kamas.

[gooddragon1]

I think I'm missing something... but isn't Unarmed Attack set up in such a way that even if you have multiple arms/legs, you can't get extra weapon attacks off it? So even with 4 arms you only get 1 Unarmed Strike? I suppose you can get around it by using a weapon. But then you lose out on the improved unarmed damage unless you pop out Scorpion Kamas.

Hm, I'll adjust it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Greater Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greaterMultiweaponFighting) requires BAB +15, which your build doesn't get until it hits 20th level. Since this build doesn't acquire a new feat upon reaching level 20, your build cannot accomplish what you propose until the epic levels, barring cheese/shenanigans.


I think I'm missing something... but isn't Unarmed Attack set up in such a way that even if you have multiple arms/legs, you can't get extra weapon attacks off it? So even with 4 arms you only get 1 Unarmed Strike? I suppose you can get around it by using a weapon. But then you lose out on the improved unarmed damage unless you pop out Scorpion Kamas.

This has been clarified multiple times, both in Dragon magazine and in the official FAQ (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) (page 19, last one on the page). You can use unarmed strikes with two-weapon or multiweapon fighting just like any other weapon.

[gooddragon1]

Greater Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greaterMultiweaponFighting) requires BAB +15, which your build doesn't get until it hits 20th level. Since this build doesn't acquire a new feat upon reaching level 20, your build cannot accomplish what you propose until the epic levels, barring cheese/shenanigans.



This has been clarified multiple times, both in Dragon magazine and in the official FAQ (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) (page 19, last one on the page). You can use unarmed strikes with two-weapon or multiweapon fighting just like any other weapon.

Your DM could simply allow you to take a flaw later in your career.

[Radar]

This build does deal solid damage, but it still has all the other monk problems: low HP, low AC and inability to use those full attack routines.

Granted, this monk at least does somethings, but the only monk features you use are unarmed strikes and flurry of blows. First one one can be taken as a feat and the second doesn't even compensate for slower BAB progression.

Still cookie for an effort. :smallsmile:

[gooddragon1]

This build does deal solid damage, but it still has all the other monk problems: low HP, low AC and inability to use those full attack routines.

Granted, this monk at least does somethings, but the only monk features you use are unarmed strikes and flurry of blows. First one one can be taken as a feat and the second doesn't even compensate for slower BAB progression.

Still cookie for an effort. :smallsmile:

I think I went over wealth by level. However, since the unarmed strike thing works it shouldn't be too bad anymore.

The sad thing is that you have to use a thri-kreen to eek out the extra damage. Though, the dude wanted the monk character to be good at in least one thing and it is.

Also, +8 bracers of armor, maybe +4 from wisdom to AC and +5 from dex to AC, +3 monk bonus, +3 natural to AC is 33 AC. Get a +5 ring of protection and you've got 38 AC. Again, not great but such is life. Get some Con items mebbe for the HP. Not much that can be done about the non-full attack frequently happening.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Sadly, you could go Thri-Kreen Monk 2/ Psychic Warrior 16 with Tashalatora, and have the exact same attacks/damage, including the same BAB. However, this would give you access to Expansion to increase your damage by two sizes, Psionic Lion's Charge to be able to full attack when not starting your round within a 5-ft. step of being adjacent to something, Inertial Armor + Force Screen + Thicken Skin to fix the AC issue, Psicrystal + Share Pain + Vigor to fix the HP issue, etc.

Basically, it does the same things only better. So sticking to just Monk levels does completely suck by comparison.

[ArcturusV]

I suppose if you wanted a Monk that didn't completely suck, could port in PF and use http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-of-the-healing-hand

... then the monk will be the best at level 20 in erasing himself from all existence. :smallbiggrin:

But yeah. I"m hard pressed to think of any non-caster class who is better at what they do by going up all 20 levels in that class. Possible half caster exception for Paladin because off hand I can't recall a lot of PrCs that advance your abilities as a Paladin (Though I'm sure there's one, maybe two out there), and Paladin abilities key off Paladin Levels.

So at the very least your Monk would almost always be better by dipping something else. Even if that something else is just 1 level of Barbarian, 2 levels of Fighter, 1 level of Tattoo'd Monk, 2 levels of Shintao Monk, etc.

Add in the fact that most monk based PrCs at least include the "Advances Monk abilities" line on level 1... no reason not to.

[gooddragon1]

Sadly, you could go Thri-Kreen Monk 2/ Psychic Warrior 16 with Tashalatora, and have the exact same attacks/damage, including the same BAB. However, this would give you access to Expansion to increase your damage by two sizes, Psionic Lion's Charge to be able to full attack when not starting your round within a 5-ft. step of being adjacent to something, Inertial Armor + Force Screen + Thicken Skin to fix the AC issue, Psicrystal + Share Pain + Vigor to fix the HP issue, etc.

Basically, it does the same things only better. So sticking to just Monk levels does completely suck by comparison.

I realize that with other levels you can get more but the OP of the linked thread wanted a straight monk. I gave him a straight monk. I mean... with just a little cheese we have

Warblade 17/Monk 1

Amphibious Anthropomorphic Giant Squid
Multiweapon fighting chain all the way
8 attacks mwf
7 attacks imwf
7 attacks gmwf
3 attacks BAB
1 attack flurry (but don't cuz I want 25)
25 attacks

Belt of Battle
Sudden Recovery
Time Stands Still x2 (from sudden recovery)
Full attack action 4 times for 25*4 or 100 attacks...
Trololo look it's Kenshiro. Hokuto Zankai Ken=Strike of Perfect Clarity?

To be fair, I'm dubious about some of that.

EDIT: I was right to be dubious. You're probably going to need to somehow get the maneuver in two pools to pull that off as belt of battle is a swift action and so is sudden recovery.

[Radar]

I think I went over wealth by level. However, since the unarmed strike thing works it shouldn't be too bad anymore.

The sad thing is that you have to use a thri-kreen to eek out the extra damage. Though, the dude wanted the monk character to be good at in least one thing and it is.

Also, +8 bracers of armor, maybe +4 from wisdom to AC and +5 from dex to AC, +3 monk bonus, +3 natural to AC is 33 AC. Get a +5 ring of protection and you've got 38 AC. Again, not great but such is life. Get some Con items mebbe for the HP. Not much that can be done about the non-full attack frequently happening.
Just a small nitpick: +8 bracers would be epic (which makes them way too expensive).

As for the full attack, it can be fixed in a way: there was an aberrant feat, which increased your reach (you would need to take Aberration Blood and then Inhuman Reach - both from Lords of Madness); Expansion power would increase your size category, which again gives you more reach. That way you should be able to hit things without the need of moving much. Taking Improved Trip and switching nunchaku for kama would give you another option in combat. It would be most efficient to use a reach weapon (there was at least a single one-handed reach weapon out there), but you are bound by the monk weapons list. It's as if Evade Competence was monk's class ability or something.

[gooddragon1]

Just a small nitpick: +8 bracers would be epic (which makes them way too expensive).

As for the full attack, it can be fixed in a way: there was an aberrant feat, which increased your reach (you would need to take Aberration Blood and then Inhuman Reach - both from Lords of Madness); Expansion power would increase your size category, which again gives you more reach. That way you should be able to hit things without the need of moving much. Taking Improved Trip and switching nunchaku for kama would give you another option in combat. It would be most efficient to use a reach weapon (there was at least a single one-handed reach weapon out there), but you are bound by the monk weapons list. It's as if Evade Competence was monk's class ability or something.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bracersofArmor

+8 bracers exist as non-epic in the DMG and SRD. The rest is cool though.

[Radar]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bracersofArmor

+8 bracers exist as non-epic in the DMG and SRD. The rest is cool though.
Thanks for pointing out the exception to the general pricing rule - might be useful at times.

[Malroth]

Tippy had a Wyrmling Dragon Monk 17 he bragged about once i'd like to see that build.

[Feint's End]

It's an ok build but it's fairly easy to top this.

Be an Kalashtar with the strong arms craft and battlefists (by RAW it's possible) and get a shard for increased unarmed damage.

get a custom item of greater mighty wallop
get improved natural attack (either by getting the ring or the feat itself)
get expansion with 2 size increases (best is to go tashalatora but if you can get it on a custom item as well it's alright too)

ok so in the most favourable way we have 4 size increases from greater mighty wallop, 1 from improved natural attack, 2 from expansion, 2 from shard and battlefist = 9

increases above 8dx are hard but I assume (and it makes perfectly sense) that every 2 size increases the increase doubles so we got:
2d10->4d8->6d8->8d8->12d8->16d8->24d8->32d8->48d8->64d8

so we got an average damage of 288 damage (before applying strength or anything else) ... also you can go wisdom sad with intuitive strike (Since damage isn't the problem of this character you can dump strength)

with snap kick, haste, flurry and a bab higher than 16 (that is achieveable with the right classes and prcs)
4+2+1+1= 8 attacks (you could get 3 more with twf if that's in)

also you could dip into shiba protector for another wis to attack and damge -> double wis to hit (you shouldn't miss even though you have some penalties on your attacks)

[Psyren]

Qinggong Tetori
Qinggong Zen Archer
Qinggong Hungry Ghost
Qinggong MoMs
Qinggong Lotus

[Zubrowka74]

What's wrong with gay monks ?

[Frosty]

Qinggong Tetori
Qinggong Zen Archer
Qinggong Hungry Ghost
Qinggong MoMs
Qinggong LotusSo the best class feature of PF Monks is...spell-like abilities? :smallwink:

[Zubrowka74]

So the best class feature of PF Monks is...spell-like abilities? :smallwink:


AND cherry-picking the ones you want.

[Psyren]

So the best class feature of PF Monks is...spell-like abilities? :smallwink:

"Replacing the chaff with something useful" is how I'd put it :smalltongue:

Though come to think of it, Tetori by itself replaces almost all of the crud.

[Rubik]

What's wrong with gay monks ?I wasn't gonna say it.

I so wanted to, but I wasn't gonna.