The Weave in Faerun, What tears it?

[unseenmage]

I'm no history buff when it comes to Faerun so I come to ask the Playground for their wisdom.

What breaks the Weave in Faerun by RAW?
By Canon?

Or even just in your games? What offenses against magic must be wrought before you as DM justify making magic stop working?

[herrhauptmann]

Silver fire can break it. Perhaps spellfire too.
Death of gods, destruction of artifacts.

And most of all, Plot.

[ArcturusV]

Well, note that spellfire itself is pretty wonky in what it can do (Least in the books). Heal, damage, rip apart even Epic Level spells and Wards like they were made of Fail, but stymied completely by a simple Wall of Force.

Also no Faerun expert, far too much material out there for me to keep up. But I also seem to recall that was something that came up during the Time of Troubles. Basically: If a god isn't within X miles of your location while being on the prime material plane, the weave is bad.

[Alleran]

It depends. Some examples:

- Netherese magic damages it (i.e. true 10th level spells) because each spell drained a great deal of power from the Weave, which meant that it was becoming unbalanced (Mystryl basically spent all day every day just trying to keep things stable - then Karsus did his thing and it all came crashing down). Epic magic doesn't have that problem because theoretically the spellcaster is supplying some of the raw power for those spells and reducing the strain.

- A great deal of magic unleashed in a small area (the bigger the area the more magic you need) will cause the Weave to fray and go wild. Some of the big magical battles in Toril's history have resulted in this. One time was when Khelben, Alustriel and Laeral threw down with Sammaster (all four were Chosen). They wrecked a chunk of Faerun in the process, and onlookers were blinded by what was unleashed. And that was with Alustriel not actually fighting, but solely attempting to manage and bleed off the energy before it could get worse. You don't need Mystra's Chosen for this, though. Any sufficiently-expansive magical duel will result in problems.

- In relation to the above, one of the reasons Myth Drannor is so wonky is because all the spells and the mythal decayed, causing fluctuations in the Weave. So just having a lot of active and/or permanent spells in one location can be a problem, given time.

- Silver fire has a draining effect on the Weave if used to heal dead magic, wild magic or antimagic fields. This is because it has to suck up power from everywhere else to restore the Weave in the zone affected, and then the body of the Chosen automatically absorbs magic afterward.

- A combination of "raw" Weave and raw Shadow Weave will create matter/antimatter reactions. The more of either side, the worse it gets. Force Missile spells plus a shadow bolt blew open the Sharn Wall. Silver fire against the shadow shield of an epic-level Shadow Mage blasted a hole in reality that went straight to the Nine Hells.

- Spellfire is derived from raw magic. It rends most spells, but noticeably doesn't rend silver fire. When Shandril suicided via spellfire, the resultant detonation created a tremor in the Weave that could be felt on the other side of the planet.

- The death of a god will do it. Bhaal's death even just in avatar form left a permanent stain around the Boareskyr Bridge.

- Mystra doing something stupid. When she showed up in Avernus and picked a fight she was accidentally tearing open portals to Toril. She had to retreat and close them.


Basically: If a god isn't within X miles of your location while being on the prime material plane, the weave is bad.
A god had to be within a mile or two during the ToT in order for their followers to receive spells. Gods were less affected by the wildness in the Weave at the time (it went wild because Mystra, the intelligence of the Weave and its essence, had been severed from it), but they were still affected. Their presence didn't do anything about the Weave in general, IIRC.

[Big Fau]

Changing editions.

[Amphetryon]

Cyric being a punk seemed to work.

[Asteron]

There is also the Rite of Unwinding. It is the focus of 3 adventures: Cormyr: the Tearing of the Weave, Shadowdale: the Scouring of the Land, and Annourach: the Empire of Shade.

Basically creates a dead Weave zone. It's like a dead magic zone, but Shadow Adepts are immune. We ruled that Psionic abilities worked there too.

Edit: Look here (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Weave) and here (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dead-magic_zone) for more info.

[Norin]

Im playing scouring of the land now, and just last session we managed to plug the tear. Pretty fun premade so far! :smallwink:

[Asteron]

Im playing scouring of the land now, and just last session we managed to plug the tear. Pretty fun premade so far! :smallwink:

We are in the middle of Annourach... Our DM inserted the Tomb of Horrors and that's where we are at right. Kinda like a break. A horrid, nightmarish break...

I liked the adventures, but like all premades, they do need a little work for the optimized party.

[Alberic Strein]

Yo momma so fat she tears the Weave !

Because someone had to.

And because Alleran said what I was going for "Mystra being stupid" first.

[unseenmage]

Yo momma so fat she tears the Weave !

Because someone had to.

And because Alleran said what I was going for "Mystra being stupid" first.

[Hermes hangs his head in shame]

Hermes Conrad: "I'm just glad my fat ugly mama is not alive to see this."

[Red Fel]

[Hermes hangs his head in shame]

Hermes Conrad: "I'm just glad my fat ugly mama is not alive to see this."

"Enough about your promiscuous mother, Hermes!"

[Asteron]

- Netherese magic damages it (i.e. true 10th level spells) because each spell drained a great deal of power from the Weave, which meant that it was becoming unbalanced (Mystryl basically spent all day every day just trying to keep things stable - then Karsus did his thing and it all came crashing down). Epic magic doesn't have that problem because theoretically the spellcaster is supplying some of the raw power for those spells and reducing the strain.

Are you sure about this? I've never heard that the 10th level spells drained the weave. What book is this in?

I looked at the FR wiki (which is pretty accurate) and couldn't find anything mentioned.

[herrhauptmann]

Are you sure about this? I've never heard that the 10th level spells drained the weave. What book is this in?

I looked at the FR wiki (which is pretty accurate) and couldn't find anything mentioned.

I think that's in reference to "Mystras Ban" on 10th level spells. Which was a safety measure by the new deity for several reasons. Among them, preventing a reenactment of Karsus' Apotheosis.

[unseenmage]

Are you sure about this? I've never heard that the 10th level spells drained the weave. What book is this in?

I looked at the FR wiki (which is pretty accurate) and couldn't find anything mentioned.

IIRC Magic of Faerun has something to say about this, that or FRCS.

[Alleran]

Are you sure about this? I've never heard that the 10th level spells drained the weave. What book is this in?

I looked at the FR wiki (which is pretty accurate) and couldn't find anything mentioned.
I've always found the FR wiki to be terrible.

To the question, it comes up in a couple of places. Of the ones I have access to right now, Netheril, Empire of Magic:

"His body swelled with the sudden influx of godly power, and his mind filled with unimaginable knowledge. Karsus instantly realized the horrible mistake he had made: He stole the power from the one god he shouldn’t have. Mystryl’s position called for one of the aspects of her psyche to constantly rework the Weave of magic—the Weave that Netheril and its glut of magic and the phaerimm with their magic drain spells constantly threatened to unravel. When Mystryl lost her ability to keep the weave of essential magic (magic in its purest unschooled and unfielded form) intact, the inundation of magic surged and fluctuated, and the effects of all things magical doubled for a time—a short time."

And Lost Empires of Faerun, reprinting the above with additional notes:

"As Karsus' body swelled with divine power, his mind filled with unimaginable knowledge, including a dreadful understanding of the mistake he had just made - he had stolen divinity from the one being who knew the Weave well enough to constantly repair the damage done to it by the magic-hungry Netherese and phaerimms. To save the Weave before the damage became irreparable, Mystryl sacrificed herself. [...] Almost immediately, the goddess of magic was reincarnated as Mystra, and she recreated the Weave in time to save the three cities of High Netheril that had not yet hit the ground. The new Weave had stricter spellcasting requirements that prevented the excesses of the Netherese."

The Magister book from 2E also talks a bit about 10th level spells, and adds more information on the subject along with the note that they drain/damage the Weave. They can still be cast, they're just very difficult. Mystra only grants the ability to access them regularly (never 11th or 12th level magic, regardless of who it might be, and yes, that includes Elminster and pals) to a select few people. Larloch can cast true 10th level spells in exchange for helping protect the Weave in his own way and discovering (and disseminating) new magic. The Srinshee can cast at least one 10th level spell, though whether or not she has access to them like Larloch, I'm not sure. Elminster is in the same boat as the Srinshee. The Magister is also allowed to, at any point, cast a single 10th level spell with a perfect chance of success, at the price of immediately surrendering their office to another and with the caveat that Mystra and Azuth can immediately reverse the 10th level spell (they still sacrifice their Magister position) if they disagree with what was cast and why.

[Asteron]

The only problem that I have with the wiki is that it is lacking information. The information that is there is solid.


I've always found the FR wiki to be terrible.

To the question, it comes up in a couple of places. Of the ones I have access to right now, Netheril, Empire of Magic:

"His body swelled with the sudden influx of godly power, and his mind filled with unimaginable knowledge. Karsus instantly realized the horrible mistake he had made: He stole the power from the one god he shouldn’t have. Mystryl’s position called for one of the aspects of her psyche to constantly rework the Weave of magic—the Weave that Netheril and its glut of magic and the phaerimm with their magic drain spells constantly threatened to unravel. When Mystryl lost her ability to keep the weave of essential magic (magic in its purest unschooled and unfielded form) intact, the inundation of magic surged and fluctuated, and the effects of all things magical doubled for a time—a short time."

And Lost Empires of Faerun, reprinting the above with additional notes:

"As Karsus' body swelled with divine power, his mind filled with unimaginable knowledge, including a dreadful understanding of the mistake he had just made - he had stolen divinity from the one being who knew the Weave well enough to constantly repair the damage done to it by the magic-hungry Netherese and phaerimms. To save the Weave before the damage became irreparable, Mystryl sacrificed herself. [...] Almost immediately, the goddess of magic was reincarnated as Mystra, and she recreated the Weave in time to save the three cities of High Netheril that had not yet hit the ground. The new Weave had stricter spellcasting requirements that prevented the excesses of the Netherese."

The Magister book from 2E also talks a bit about 10th level spells, and adds more information on the subject along with the note that they drain/damage the Weave. They can still be cast, they're just very difficult. Mystra only grants the ability to access them regularly (never 11th or 12th level magic, regardless of who it might be, and yes, that includes Elminster and pals) to a select few people. Larloch can cast true 10th level spells in exchange for helping protect the Weave in his own way and discovering (and disseminating) new magic. The Srinshee can cast at least one 10th level spell, though whether or not she has access to them like Larloch, I'm not sure. Elminster is in the same boat as the Srinshee. The Magister is also allowed to, at any point, cast a single 10th level spell with a perfect chance of success, at the price of immediately surrendering their office to another and with the caveat that Mystra and Azuth can immediately reverse the 10th level spell (they still sacrifice their Magister position) if they disagree with what was cast and why.


I knew about Karsus' folly and the subsequent ban(my FR lore is pretty good.) I was wondering about the 10th level spells specifically draining the Weave.


the Weave that Netheril and its glut of magic and the phaerimm with their magic drain spells constantly threatened to unravel.

This reads as if the combination of the Netherese and phaerimm (and the clashes between the two) caused it, rather than the 10th level and up spells themselves.

In any case, it's not really important. I was just curious.

[Alleran]

If I can find my copy of the Magister book, I'll see about digging up some specific quotes.