Avatar, Earthsea and others.

[t209]

Are there any fantasy that avoid European fantasy universe or being more diverse?
All I know is Avatar (Asian based) and Earthsea (dark skinned and Bronze Age).

[Avilan the Grey]

Are there any fantasy that avoid European fantasy universe or being more diverse?
All I know is Avatar (Asian based) and Earthsea (dark skinned and Bronze Age).

It depends on what you mean with "European Fantasy" and "Diverse". Also, what media?

I recommend the Codex Alera series (books) by Jim Butcher. The main characters are "sorta" European fantasy (they are basically Magical Romans), but it's nothing like "Elf Dwarf Troll Knight" fantasy.

[Brother Oni]

As Avilan said, are you after any type of media in particular, or just want a list?

Even with D&D, you have settings like Dark Sun or the old Oriental Adventures.

Sticking with RPGs, Exalted, Fung Shui, Legend of the 5 Rings and the various Far East settings of Old WoD (Kindred of the East, Hengeyokai, Lightning People, etc).

Chinese fantasy movies and TV series are too numerous to count, from all the big name wuxia movies like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Hero, to the seasonal wuxia/historical dramas that come out in Hong Kong.
More supernatural fare includes things like A Chinese Ghost Story and Storm Riders.

There's plenty of anime that's non-western fantasy: Inu Yasha, Naruto, Bleach, Princess Mononoke, 3x3 Eyes, Dragon half, X/1999 is just a start.

This is not including the output of other countries that I am not familiar with.

[Moak]

There also is the excellent, awe-inspiring and magnificient Maztica Trilogy by Douglas Niles, that tap into Aztec-Maya civilization.

[endoperez]

I'm assuming you're only interested in the good ones? There's stuff like the Otori trilogy which I found bland and derivative.


Bridge of Birds by Barry Hughart. Detective story in wonderfully alien fantasy China. The whole series was rereleased in an omnibus called The Chronicles of Master Li and Number Ten Ox, but I've only read the first one.

[Eldan]

Well, if you're into Manga, there's a neverending supply of Japanese fantasy there...

[BWR]

Matthew Stover has a couple of books, "Iron Dawn" and "Jericho Moon" which are low-fantasy set in the Holy Land. Damn good pieces of work. Great characters, great action and decent scholarship about the time and place.

Heck, even his Acts of Caine series which features what is intentionally a bog standard elfdwarftrollhuman fantasy world is unique and excellent.

[Socratov]

while definitely being european I'd say you should consider the Iron Druid chronicles for handling fantasy in a different way with a different form of casting, different mythology, pesky elf/fairy hybrids and situated in modern times.

Nother one that's different form classical literature is the Walker Papers series: it handles native american shamanism as main ingredient. Quite interesting.

[Axolotl]

Perdido Street Station might qualify, it's set in a Victorian London analogue but it's main characters are quite diverse.

Gormenghast is based far more on late Imperial China than it is on traditional European fantasy tropes.

[Kitten Champion]

A few novels I can think of:

The Ramayana, if you're inclined to invest your time in a work which is thoroughly Hindu with all that comes with that cultural consciousness, is actually an exciting and interesting epic with unique characters and an imaginative setting. It's very heroic.

The Eona duology by Alison Goodman delves into fantasy China, there's cross-dressing, magic, political intrigue, a cast of colourful characters, and a fairly... relatable narration. That is to say the 17-year-old female protagonist doesn't become stilted through an anglicized interpretation of a young woman in feudal Chinese although she's still framed through that culture, if that makes any sense. It's not my favourite book about a fantasy China, but it's a decent adventure story with all the trimmings.

Stormdancer by Jay Kristoff goes into a steampunk fantasy Japan. It's operatic in scope and feel with compelling politics and a real sense of grandeur mixed with terrible bleakness that prevents it from becoming too idealized... and there are chainsaw katana -- because steampunk. It fails in some regards depicting the culture it's inspired from, and descriptions can go on for too long, but it's certainly fun from my perspective.

Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny, oddly enough the only book I've really enjoyed by this author thus far. Lord of Light is technically science fiction, but that's a technicality you can drive a spaceship through. It's about a far-future human colony which has regressed to the point of medieval India. It's run by a heavenly host of post-humans who pose as deities using psychic abilities and mechanical reincarnation to maintain their immortality and control over the majority. Their rule is now in jeopardy as one among them is posing as a Buddha to form a rebellion against them.

[BWR]

Most of Tanith Lee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanith_Lee)'s fantasy fiction would fall under non-European. Actually, the settings are different enough that they don't really correspond to any real world cultures and are different from the innumerable Tolkien clones.

I suggest starting with:
The Birthgrave ("The Birthgrave", "Shadowfire/Vazkor, Son of Vazkor", "Quest for the White Witch")

Tales from the Flat Earth ("Night's Master", "Death's Master", "Delusion's Master", "Delirium's Mistress", "Night's Sorceries" plus several short stories).

Heck, even her very definitely European stories are different from what most other people write.

[Cheesegear]

The Bas-Lag novels by China Mieville. Although be warned, it may get a bit weird. But, if you're looking for diversity...It's definitely there.

[MLai]

I assume you're looking for anime that is medieval/feudal fantasy but not set in Europe or generic D&D-land?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moribito:_Guardian_of_the_Spirit
Low fantasy set in some sort of wuxia East Asia. It's not feudal Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushishi
Supernatural/ghost fantasy set in late feudal Japan(?).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilisk_(manga)
Feudal Japan ninjas with super ninja powers.

[Brother Oni]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushishi
Supernatural/ghost fantasy set in late feudal Japan(?).

Mushishi is weird - the main character is definitely of fairly modern dress (plus his ever present cigarettes) and the people he helps vary between modern-ish and Edo period.

Reading up a bit, the author states that it's set in an imaginary period between the Edo and Meiji periods, so it has 19th Century technology but Japan is still close to outsiders.

[Yora]

The Hyborian Age of Conan isn't very European. There is two cultures of Vikings and Aqualonia seems a bit like the Roman Empire, I'd quess. But most of the world seems to be based more on Africa and Asia.
It is actually supposed to be the distant past of Earth, but even those nations that are located in regions that would become Europe don't feel very European.

[t209]

Non-D&D's generic fantasy.
I am happy with how you guys provided with me.
How about OOTS, I mean they had Asian, Black and middle eastern PCs and NPCs?

[endoperez]

I remembered a few more:

Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell (debatable) - it's set in Europe but it's still very different from the normal fare. It's set in Victorian Europe. No knights or swords, the elves (= the fair folk) are downright horrifying in how alien they are, etc.


Raymond E. Feist's Riftwar books describe a conflict between traditional fantasy world and a different, invading culture. The Tsurani are unique AFAIK, and they and their world are interesting. The war against them is introduced in the book "Magician", sold separately in two parts "Magician: Apprentice" and "Magician: Master". There's a co-authored trilogy (Feist and Janny Wurts) told from the Tsurani point of view: Daughter of the Empire, Servant of the Empire and Mistress of the Empire.


Roger Zelazny's posthumous Lord Demon, completed by Jane Lindskold, also applies. It has the godlike supernaturals dressed up in Chinese garb and mannerisms.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Brandon Sanderson consistently shakes up the fantasy paradigm with diverse worlds and interesting, internally-consistent magic systems.

[warty goblin]

As always, the solution is to read more Leigh Brackett. Sure much of her work is technically science fiction, but you'd hardly know it reading the stuff. The three part Book of Skaith in particular has a truly large number of very non-standard cultures; some of which are human, some of which used to be, and some of which are something else entirely.



Raymond E. Feist's Riftwar books describe a conflict between traditional fantasy world and a different, invading culture. The Tsurani are unique AFAIK, and they and their world are interesting. The war against them is introduced in the book "Magician", sold separately in two parts "Magician: Apprentice" and "Magician: Master". There's a co-authored trilogy (Feist and Janny Wurts) told from the Tsurani point of view: Daughter of the Empire, Servant of the Empire and Mistress of the Empire.

If by 'unique' you mean 'copied from an RPG supplement written by somebody else' than yes, it's quite unique.


Brandon Sanderson consistently shakes up the fantasy paradigm with diverse worlds and interesting, internally-consistent magic systems.
If Sanderson is really the best modern fantasy can do, no wonder I read so little of it anymore.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I didn't say Sanderson was the best, just that he fits the criteria.

[Eldan]

If I can ask:

If nothing or even most of what's mentioned in this thread doesn't count as standard European fantasy, what outside of Tolkien and a handful of imitators does? Because if Urban fantasy, modern fantasy, anything with industrial technology or otherwise set outside the medieval or dark ages and anything that isn't quite European doesn't count anymore, is there anyone who still writes that kind of "standard" fantasy?

[endoperez]

If by 'unique' you mean 'copied from an RPG supplement written by somebody else' than yes, it's quite unique.

I put in the "AFAIK", meaning "as far as I know", since I wasn't familiar with whatever references Feist used for the Tsurani. I also can't find anything about this RPG supplement he copied in a quick google search. Could you give me some links, or pointers?

Also, it's still non-standard and non-European.

edit:
Found it, the source seems to have been M.A.R. Barker's setting, "Tekumel", and there are novels set in the Tekumel world. Has anyone read any of these, are they worth reading?

The Man of Gold
Flamesong
Lords of Tsámra
Prince of Skulls
A Death of Kings

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The Tekumel sourcebooks are also widely acclaimed for their deep and non-traditional fantasy setting, so there's that.

[erikun]

How far away do you want it to be? The Shannara series (Terry Brooks) is pretty separate from the standard Tolkien/D&D setting, but does have elves and magic and such in it. Stephen R. Lawhead is generally a very good writer, although most of his books are based on legends like King Arthur and Robin Hood. Steven Brust is excellent and I recommend reading his books, especially the Vlad Taltos novels, which probably fit what you are looking for. I happen to like Piers Anthony and nothing of his will fit in the "generic fantasy" category, although some people may not like how much it isn't generic fantasy.

[Feytalist]

If I can ask:

If nothing or even most of what's mentioned in this thread doesn't count as standard European fantasy, what outside of Tolkien and a handful of imitators does? Because if Urban fantasy, modern fantasy, anything with industrial technology or otherwise set outside the medieval or dark ages and anything that isn't quite European doesn't count anymore, is there anyone who still writes that kind of "standard" fantasy?

Word.

It's mostly just that we love dividing genres in to cripplingly overspecific sub-sub-sub-genres, I think.

There are quite a few authors who still write traditional fantasy, as we define it here. Karen Miller, Trudy Canavan, hell, Patrick Rothfuss while we're at it. For what it's worth, Richard Morgan's A Land Fit for Heroes series would fit, even if it contains weird magitech aliens, even weirder dreamspace aliens, racism and sexism all over the place, and stops juuuust south of grimdark.



Also I just remembered Stephen Lawhead, and found that someone had beat me to it. He has a few fantasy series based on Celtic myth (which is as close to Western fantasy as it's possible to get, but the way it reads is completely different to anything else we're used to). The Pendragon Cycle deals with the Arthurian Saga, The Song of Albion is also pretty unique, and The King Raven trilogy deals with Robin Hood.

[MLai]

OP asks for non-European fantasy, and I think the recommendations and discussions are drifting more and more and more into European fantasies.

[Avilan the Grey]

OP asks for non-European fantasy, and I think the recommendations and discussions are drifting more and more and more into European fantasies.

My impression is that the OP asks for "non-Tolkien" (which really, usually, is more along the lines of "non-D&D" fantasy, which is what tends to be thought of, when mentioning "European" or "Western" fantasy.

Basically Human - Elf - Dwarf - Orc fantasy.

[Kitten Champion]

If I can ask:

If nothing or even most of what's mentioned in this thread doesn't count as standard European fantasy, what outside of Tolkien and a handful of imitators does? Because if Urban fantasy, modern fantasy, anything with industrial technology or otherwise set outside the medieval or dark ages and anything that isn't quite European doesn't count anymore, is there anyone who still writes that kind of "standard" fantasy?

Well,

What makes Western fantasy thus is the body of references and cultural traditions the works represent. The Western tradition starts with the Greek epics, goes through the Romans, into the Biblical, the Norse Eddas, Gaelic mythologies, the epic romance, the fairy tale -- and so on.

I don't think Avatar is particularly non-Western (or what have you) to begin with. They use aesthetics and certain affectations from China, Japan, India, Tibet, etc. but they reflect Western sensibilities and values more than civilizations they're referencing. It is, to my mind, standard fantasy.

The Earthsea series however, is far more European in its aesthetic and mannerisms, but the values and sensibilities it reflects are more grounded in Eastern philosophies. Buddhist and Taoist if I recall correctly. The Lathe of Heaven -- another of Le Guin's works which is among my favourites -- is an explicit rejection of certain Western ideological beliefs with strong Taoist themes. The setting however, is Portland Oregon, it's the ideas being conveyed more than how they're packaged.

Sanderson, for instance, is decisively Western. Even if his settings are inspired by numerous cultural sources and his magic systems are more reflective of comics, the core of his stories are Tolkien to a T.

[Eldan]

Oh, absolutely. That's the definition I have running too. I was mostly just thinking what other people were using as their definition, if Sanderson and Butcher don't count. I mean, I love both of them, but they are both clearly western.

[Kitten Champion]

Oh, absolutely. That's the definition I have running too. I was mostly just thinking what other people were using as their definition, if Sanderson and Butcher don't count. I mean, I love both of them, but they are both clearly western.

...Looking back at the OP, it's pretty vague, isn't it?

Avatar and Earthsea are pretty contrasted from one another in most regards. I suppose both universes don't acknowledge the concept of race or give skin colour much significance, none at all in Earthsea. As opposed to the unfortunate implications of Tolkien's world where fairness is a virtue or a sign of virtue.

Well, Wheel of Time is diverse, explicitly so. Although Eye of the World takes a while to get out of the counterpart England that's the novel's starting point.

[Eldan]

They do go a bit into skintone in Earthsea. There was at least one nation where the people had lighter skin and they were threated as at least evil-ish by the rest.

[IronFist]

I'd like to suggest the Gentlemen Bastards sequence. It's a heist movie in book form and it's not traditional at all (our elves are aliens!).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'd like to suggest the Gentlemen Bastards sequence. It's a heist movie in book form and it's not traditional at all (our elves are aliens!).
Eh, it's basically Fantasy Renaissance Italy--I suspect that Lynch derived the name "Camorr" from the Camorra, even. Alchemy, fearsome magic, it's actually not far off from Eberron, just less cluttered. So probably not what the OP wanted?

But it's also awesome. andrepublicofthievescomingtomeyay

[Socratov]

Eh, it's basically Fantasy Renaissance Italy--I suspect that Lynch derived the name "Camorr" from the Camorra, even. Alchemy, fearsome magic, it's actually not far off from Eberron, just less cluttered. So probably not what the OP wanted?

But it's also awesome. andrepublicofthievescomingtomeyay

1st, duh!, 2nd, I hate you for it. Well, I'll have money eventually to get the e-book version... (both republic of thieves and kives and bastards)

If you like black humour and even darker stories: the Nightside is what you are looking for... (by Simon R Green)

[IronFist]

Just bought Republic of Thieves. Can't contain myself. :smallsmile:

[Manga Shoggoth]

Journey to the West (my recomendation is the abridgement by Arthut Whaley under the title of "Monkey").

Gilgamesh by Robert Silverberg (based on the legend of the same name)

Come to think of it, Lord Valentine's Castle/Valentine Pontefix by the same author.

And I never tire of reccomending Bridge of Birds by Barry Hughart.(AKA The Chronicles of Master Li and Number Ten Ox), but someone beat me to it...

[HamHam]

If Sanderson is really the best modern fantasy can do, no wonder I read so little of it anymore.

Yes because likable characters, great action, and interesting settings are so terrible.

But Sanderson is pretty solidly "western" so not really relevant to the topic.

The easiest place to find non-western fantasy is non-western sources. There are a lot of fantasy anime and manga out there and while a lot of them copy the whole swords and sorcery, knights and princesses aesthetic just as many are completely "eastern" in design.

[Arbane]

Tanith Lee's "Flat Earth" stories are very much not your typical 'psuedo-medieval Europe' fantasy. (They remind me more of Greek myth, personally - larger-than-live people with larger-than-life flaws having mythical adventures.)

[warty goblin]

Yes because likable characters, great action, and interesting settings are so terrible.


I gave Mistborn an honest try. Picked it up at Thanksgiving or so, got halfway through and became terminally bored. I only finished it at the tail end of spring semester because I had read literally every other printed word in my dorm room - including a feminist study of rape that probably caused me to grind about a quarter inch off my molars.

You could always give Sarah Micklem a try. Her stuff is technically fairly western in some respects, but is the most different take on the subject matter that I've ever encountered.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Strangely enough, I wasn't all that gripped by Mistborn either. It's still not my favorite, even into Hero of Ages. But for some reason, The Way of Kings resounded with me tremendously. I thought it was top-notch high fantasy. That's one of the reasons I recommend Sanderson. Also because he builds a very deliberate world and magic structure in every one of his books. That's fairly unique amongst fantasy authors.

[Eldan]

For me, too, Mistborn is his weakest book. Especially parts two and three of the trilogy, which were a bit of a grind for me to get through.

Elantris, Way of Kings and Warbreaker were all excellent, though.

[Feytalist]

Hmm. Mistborn was decent enough. Bit draggy in places, but I liked the overall narrative. Alloy of Law is a great little novel, though.

Warbreaker, now. I found it really disjointed. I understand it was sort of an experiment in writing, but the pacing was really weird. Interesting idea, but the last hundred or so pages was really really rushed, and the ending pretty much came out of nowhere. Very disruptive.

I'm feeling good about the rest of Way of Kings, though.


Also this is now a Sanderson thread, apparently.

[Salbazier]

A Sanderson thread? Count me in! :smalltongue:

So, I'm not the only one who need give up Mistborn partly/need to drag themselves, eh? Only at first though, I like it better once I read quite far. So was the case with Warbreaker (and like it less than Mistborn).

Way of Kings, well, does anyone remember who was the poster who once have a quote from it in their sig (and the poster who answer me when I ask where the quote come from)? I am in debt with them for introducing me to one of the coolest fantasy novel. :smallbiggrin:

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Eh, I'm mainly trying to think of what other fantasy I know that doesn't follow the medieval Western D&D-ish route. The Sanderson was incidental, and I try to spoiler it.

I wonder if there's any media that has fantasy in the same vein as the game Okami.

I suppose, thinking on it, that Neil Gaiman's Sandman is a sort of mythic fantasy story. A lot of modern action in it, though.

There's gotta be some anime I know of that fit this, although it's surprising how many of them do fall into the Western-inspired fantasy vein. Would Mononoke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mononoke_(TV_series)) count? (The series, not the Ghibli movie called Mononoke-hime.)

[HamHam]

Warbreaker, now. I found it really disjointed. I understand it was sort of an experiment in writing, but the pacing was really weird. Interesting idea, but the last hundred or so pages was really really rushed, and the ending pretty much came out of nowhere. Very disruptive.

It has some of the best characters though!

Mistborn is probably the best in it's trilogy and is pretty much perfect.