[3.5] Keen-Eared Scout

[Fax Celestis]

Keen-Eared Scout [General]
Prerequisites: Alertness or Skill Focus (Listen), Listen 6 ranks
Benefit: When you make a Listen check, you might learn more than normal about a source of noise.

If you beat the Listen DC by 5 or more, you determine the size, speed, and direction of the source of noise.

If you beat the DC by 10 or more, you determine the precise, current position of the creature or object that caused the sound.

If you beat the DC by 15 or more, you determine the type of armor the creature wears and what it carries, if anything.

If you beat the DC by 20 or more, you learn the creature's type and subtypes.

The information you learn is cumulative. For example, if you got a Listen check result of 35 against a DC of 23, you gain the information for beating the check by 10 and by 5. These benefits apply to both standard and opposed Listen checks.

Also, you gain a +5 bonus on Listen checks to pinpoint invisible creatures.

So this is actually a pretty great feat, if only for the DC +10 option. It basically lets you pinpoint the square for invisible creatures more easily, trading the +20 Listen DC for an effective +7 Listen DC (because you picked up Skill Focus (Listen) to get this feat).


A creature can use hearing to find an invisible creature. A character can make a Listen check for this purpose as a free action each round. A Listen check result at least equal to the invisible creature’s Move Silently check result reveals its presence. (A creature with no ranks in Move Silently makes a Move Silently check as a Dexterity check to which an armor check penalty applies.) A successful check lets a character hear an invisible creature “over there somewhere.” It’s practically impossible to pinpoint the location of an invisible creature. A Listen check that beats the DC by 20 pinpoints the invisible creature’s location.

Furthermore, if you beat the DC by 20, you learn type and subtype, which can be a pretty big deal.

What are people's thoughts?

[Flickerdart]

Or you can spend a feat on Mindsight.

It's a nice feat, but the prerequisite tax is kind of absurd for what you get.

[Fax Celestis]

Mindsight requires you to pick up telepathy from somewhere, which generally means a Mindbender dip (so 5 levels of invoker or arcane caster, plus a bunch of skill ranks) or two levels in Incarnate. Keen-Eared Scout can be picked up by someone with no spellcasting, and they're both available at ECL 6.

[Chronos]

...for an effective +7 Listen DC (because you picked up Skill Focus (Listen) to get this feat).
You're counting the prerequisite as a benefit, not as a drawback. If this feat didn't have the prerequisite of Skill Focus, it'd be better than it is now, and it'd be an effective +10 DC.

[Zanos]

Mindsight requires you to pick up telepathy from somewhere, which generally means a Mindbender dip (so 5 levels of invoker or arcane caster, plus a bunch of skill ranks) or two levels in Incarnate. Keen-Eared Scout can be picked up by someone with no spellcasting, and they're both available at ECL 6.

Mindsight is better in almost every way. It requires no checks, automatically detects everything within range of your telepathy, and automatically determines it's type and intelligence score. I suppose it's inability to detect mindless creatures is something keen-eared scout has on it.

While this feat is obtainable by anyone, it's pretty much limited to anyone who can afford to max out Listen, and therefore have it as a class skill. So it costs skillpoints and 3(!) feats. Three feats is a pretty intense price-tag.

It's certainly not bad, but I'd be hard pressed to fit it into a build.

[A.A.King]

Or can be picked up by someone with Spellcasting and a Familiar and it doesn't even need the prerequisite.

It can really help when making a scouting character but the question really is how much do you want to invest in something which might not or rarely happen (depending on the DM)

Also, surely the DC is a +10 but you get a +2 or +3 from Alertness and Skill Focus (Listen) respectively AND the +5 to pinpoint the invisible creature.

[Fax Celestis]

Mindsight is better in almost every way. It requires no checks, automatically detects everything within range of your telepathy, and automatically determines it's type and intelligence score. I suppose it's inability to detect mindless creatures is something keen-eared scout has on it.

While this feat is obtainable by anyone, it's pretty much limited to anyone who can afford to max out Listen, and therefore have it as a class skill. So it costs skillpoints and 3(!) feats. Three feats is a pretty intense price-tag.

It's certainly not bad, but I'd be hard pressed to fit it into a build.

I went back and checked, and I'll amend the initial post: the feat requires Alertness or Skill Focus (Listen).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart
Or you can spend a feat on Mindsight.


Originally Posted by Fax Celestis
Mindsight requires you to pick up telepathy from somewhere, which generally means a Mindbender dip (so 5 levels of invoker or arcane caster, plus a bunch of skill ranks) or two levels in Incarnate.

Also, Mindsight and Mindbender are more likely to be vetoed by a DM, since telepathy can play hob with a campaign that wasn't designed to accommodate it.

[IronFist]

Mindsight doesn't work on some stuff, while Keen-Eared Scout works on everything.
It's one of the rare cool things you can do with skills alone, but it still gets rarely mentioned.

[Flickerdart]

Mindsight doesn't work on some stuff, while Keen-Eared Scout works on everything.
It's one of the rare cool things you can do with skills alone, but it still gets rarely mentioned.
Not everything makes a sound, and things that make a sound can turn into things that don't make a sound with a 1st level spell.

[IronFist]

Not everything makes a sound, and things that make a sound can turn into things that don't make a sound with a 1st level spell.

There are more things that make sounds than things that have minds (which is actually kind of sad). Also, a 1st level spell? I thought Silence was 2nd level. Then again, it's an area effect that sometimes alerts people of their presence (brilliantly used as such in Year of Rogue Dragons).
Anyway, I don't mean to say it's better than Mindsight, I'm just saying it's a cool enough feat and Mindsight being there as an option (for a completely different group of characters) doesn't make it any less cool.

[Chronos]

I went back and checked, and I'll amend the initial post: the feat requires Alertness or Skill Focus (Listen).
Oh, that makes it considerably better. It's still basically a feat tax, since nobody would choose to take either of those feats for their own sake, but Alertness, at least, can be gotten for near-free in a few ways, and is also a prerequisite to a few other cool options.

[Fax Celestis]

Can't you get it as a domain power somewhere?

[Feint's End]

Thank you for this threat :D Now I know the level 3 feat for my new swordsage. Actually the feat is at least decent in some cases ... for example I got:

Wisdom as main attribute (with Intuitive Attack) therefor it's my highest stat
I'm a half elf and we use pathfinder skills (also I can take skill focus for free so no feat tax here) giving me a racial +5 to perception.
At first level I have +13 perception (4 ranks, 4 we, 5 feat and racial)

Sure mindsight is better but this feat is easier to get, less cheesy (mindbender entry is mostly a pure powergaming decision and often vetoed by dm as mentioned earlier) and also damn awesome ... I mean you can hear your foes race.

[Person_Man]

Mindsight requires you to pick up telepathy from somewhere, which generally means a Mindbender dip (so 5 levels of invoker or arcane caster, plus a bunch of skill ranks) or two levels in Incarnate. Keen-Eared Scout can be picked up by someone with no spellcasting, and they're both available at ECL 6.

Nitpick: Totemist, not Incarnate, grants Telepathy, via Shedu Crown bound to Crown, which requires Totemist 4, or 2 Feats. (Shape Soulmeld and Open Least Chakra, which anyone can pull off by level 6).

So I'd generally prefer the Shedu Crown->Mindsight route, since it grants immunity to bull rush, telepathy, plus the many benefits of Mindsight (if you're otherwise psionic).

Having said that, if you're going the Keen-Eared Scout route, I would get the Alertness pre-req from a Familiar, Soulspark Familiar (which you can also get with the Shape Soulmeld Feat), or Dark Blue Rhomboid Ioun Stone (10,000 gp DMG).