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View Full Version : Making a Magic System-Scientific Animism



Leliel
2013-10-07, 11:44 AM
Little Background: I've been been a ironing out a setting (or possibly a flash game script, if I can pitch the idea who can actually code) I'm writing, which started off as a thought experiment: What if the Forces of Chaos from Warhammer 40,000 were the default "good guys", and what would I need to change about the setting to make it that way?

At some point, mecha pilots were added to replace the Space Marines, and things changed drastically from thereon. But that is neither here nor there for the topic at hand.

The topic is that, as part of one of the more drastic setting changes, the "magic" of the universe is no longer dangerous and corruptive psionics, but something called "superspatial sorcery"-which anyone and their mom can learn if they put their minds to it, thus tossing out the "born evil and/or cursed" aspect of psykers.

How it works is...why I am asking this. See, superspace (my version of hyperspace) is essentially a realm of Platonic Forms that mirrors rational/lower space (the term you use depends largely on whether what plane you're native to)-a realm where everything is composed of concepts in the same way rational space is composed of atoms. What we might term "a rock" is, in superspace, "a collection of concepts such as lava, solid, cold, and molecules that have conglomerated into a singular collective concept of a single rock." As a side effect of this, everything in superspace that is not defined as "possessing a soul" (read here-demons and sapient beings, as well as many domestic animals and higher predators) is a part of a greater gestalt being that can be conversed with-you can literally chat up said rock, which is conversing with an aspect of the gestalt greater being of the planet's own stone, which is itself an aspect of stone everywhere, which is a part of matter...you get the idea.

Superspatial sorcery is the term for studying and using the interaction between these forces (often called "spirits" for the sake of posterity) to accomplish feats in rational space. This can be divided into two broad camps, shamanism (which treats the spirits as sapient entities to be negotiated and fought with) and hermeticism (which treats them like laws of nature to be utilized and circumvented). Both approach the art very scientifically (shamans view it as more like sociology and biology, while heremetics view it as physics and mathematics), and both make extensive use of pacts and deals (though they view this in different ways-hermetics see it as engineering and modeling, while shamans see it as...pacts and deals).

Thus, the problem.

I really want to show how dangerous sorcery can be to the reckless and unprepared, but it's largely the fault of the sorcerer in question. I've already got that pushing spirits too far and provoking imbalance between the rational and superspatial worlds can result in bad things happening as the cosmos corrects the error (mutation among them-it's not uncommon to for a concept of something biological that doesn't naturally occur in sorcerer's species end up attaching itself to their superspatial selves, and the universe corrects the discrepancy if it won't dislodge), but there's a reason sorcerers aren't a dime a dozen, and it's not "censoring grimories."

Although that is a big reason for our Imperium wannabes (aka the Confederation of Light), the main protagonists' faction (the Malandanti) looks rather askance at that kind of thing-and while sorcerers are a hell of a lot more common and accepted, that's still in the vicinity of "rightly feared", and I need some explanation of why the protagonists don't have a plot hole-inducing level of sorcerous tech advantage over said Confederation, particularly given their alliance with a demonic noble house that helps with said tech.

I'm thinking many of the pacts are taboos make the sorcerers act very strange and often detrimental to themselves to make the spirits happy. But sill, any other ideas?

EDIT: In summation, what are good downsides to this method of magic that helps explain why the Malandanti's use of it and the technology that it allows haven't managed to steamroll the Confederation, and are appropriately desperate for a protagonist faction in a darker setting?

inexorabletruth
2013-10-07, 01:04 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kLVWua-8dsU/UVHVY0HB5iI/AAAAAAAAN9o/RgksR5gAai8/s1600/Princess-Bride-Sum-up.jpg

I wish to help you, but I'm unclear about what you want. Do you wish to find a programmer to help you design a game, or are you looking for suggestions and critiques on plot ideas?

Perhaps you could give a summarized version of what you're trying to say...

Leliel
2013-10-07, 01:09 PM
Agh. This is why I have bolded summaries at the bottom of my posts.

I'm brainstorming what are the downsides of being a sorcerer here are, such that the question of why the Malandanti haven't steamrolled the Confederation by now is answered.

I'll add a summary.

JusticeZero
2013-10-07, 01:58 PM
Probably because sorcerers are feared, and the group that promises to kill all the scary sorcerers has the money and resources - and zero objections to using a bit of sorcery themselves quietly in the background to even the odds.

Leliel
2013-10-08, 11:07 AM
Uh, that's the problem.

The Malandanti are very much Funhouse Mirror Universe Chaos, and is befitting Mirror Chaos, they're far more accepting of sorcery and make far more extensive use of it. Thus it has to have some downsides, or the fact that they don't stab each other in the back constantly and are capable of organization beyond "pointed in right direction" pokes plot holes in the world.

Speaking of which, I was thinking a "scale of severity" might work here-depending on how bad you screwed up, the spirit's wrath gets worse and worse with every category. The worst is temporary possession, which may or may not be blacked out when the sorcerer comes to.

Grinner
2013-10-08, 01:07 PM
Perhaps because magic has a price?

Striking a deal with a minor spirit is easy. These spirits aren't as central to the structure of the superspatial dimension. Because they lack that centrality, they can exercise the powers they do have without distorting that dimension noticeably, but they're less powerful.

Major spirits are the glue which bonds the universe. They're immensely powerful, capable of shattering worlds with nary a thought, but they're bonded to many, many other spirits, making them so integral to the structure of the universe. These bonds generally prevent them from acting in any but set ways, since they may inadvertently break the universe otherwise. It is possible for them to deviate, but it needs to be done in a manner that won't imbalance the universe (i.e. a really, really, really, really, really long ritual).

In short, less powerful spirits are able to take action more freely than more powerful spirits.