The Anti-Party: Connections?

[Valluman]

I thought I'd like to ask the forums about an anti-party I have made, not for their balance or anything like that, but instead of their reasons for being with one another. I already have a possible route for it to go, and I will post that too. Of course, I need to provide background, so here it comes!

First, we have the Hexblade. Respected by some, feared by many. He is ruthless in combat and seeks eternal glory. He often spends much of his time (until he started adventuring), taking care of local bandits and ruffians, not out of the goodness of his heart, but for the glory of it all. He is from a well known family who always have rumors of unsavory practices running through their family. Our Hexblade, Sullivan, believes strongly in "the strong will thrive and the weak will die" kind of mentality, though he does not care if you are strong magically, physically, intellectually, or whatever else, so long as it works.

Second, we have the Witch (adapted from Pathfinder for 3.5). She killed her master in a fit of rage, much to the dismay of her fellow student (one of our party members, a Wizard). She genuinely cares for the wizard. In truth, her own obsession with the man is what brought her to kill her (female) master; she was jealous of the time they spent together, but what student and master would not? The witch, Reyna, seeks only the approval of the wizard. She may be obsessed, but she is by no means a fool. She values knowledge and is agonizingly superstitious; who can blame her with her powers and the Hexblade's own nature?

Thirdly, we have the Rogue (and future Assassin). He kills not for thrill or for money, but because he is obsessed with how people work, literally. He watches the living body function, and he enjoys knowing what makes it tick, what the right needle prick in the right location can cause. He is also obsessed with the mystery of the soul, having determined that the body is just a machine for the soul. He, who shall remain nameless, can hamstring a man, slit his throat and wrists, but it will not stop a strong willed man from giving up. Resulting in his sick obsession, he is also fearful of death and the ceasing of his own body's functions. He does not fight for glory or for the approval of anyone. He fights only to solve the mystery of the soul and how to overcome it.

Lastly, we have the Dread Necromancer. An adviser to the local lord (father of our Hexblade), he tutored Sullivan in his magical knowledge and nurtured his powers over luck. The Necromancer, Dauthir, puts on the mask of society only out of necessity. He wants what ever other necromancer wants: immortality through undeath. He knows it will come, in time, and he plans to travel with Sullivan on his journeys, officially, as an adviser for Sullivan, and unofficially, using him as protection and a future minion. Every action he takes is only to advance himself towards his ultimate goal. He will do whatever it takes, be it putting on the facade of charity or killing a local pest.

How to put them all together? I am thinking that, as Sullivan (who is the party's "leader") encounters Reyna and the Rogue, that Dauthir will be the whispers in his ear to spare them for their use. Sullivan, normally, would kill Reyna and the Rogue for their audacity and their defiance against his father's rule. However, with Duathir, his tutor, whispering in his ear, perhaps he may be persuaded to let them live; he is after glory, after all, and sparing the lives of these two could force them to serve his own selfish goals. This helps with Sullivan, but why would the Rogue stay when he can run? Why would Reyna share her magics with another man that is now our wizard?

I'd like to hear other's thoughts on this and suggestions as well. They will end up together, but I want to ensure that they are compatible.

[Rama]

Is a character missing? In the witch's description you mentioned a wizard character as well.

[Valluman]

I said that the wizard was one of our party members.

[Red Fel]

First off, I like the flavor of these characters. You have your arrogant gish, your obsessed villainess, your sadistic murderer, and your conniving vizier. I like the archetypes and I like the flavor.

That said, the first problem you have to overcome is that which is common to villain team-ups: To wit, the idea that, if a group of villains must team up to rival the heroes, it implies that they are individually no threat. You may want to spend some time establishing these villains as individuals, as well as team-mates, to make the opposite clear: That not only are these villains a threat individually, but as a group they border on terrifying. And then cross the border.

It strikes me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Dauthir is a puppeteer; that while Sullivan believes himself to be the leader, and the others may follow him, Dauthir is really pulling the strings. Is this correct?

If so, keeping the party together becomes surprisingly easy. Dauthir convinces Sullivan to keep them around to add to his power and glory. Dauthir convinces the witch to stay because they can help her eliminate those pesky heroes who keep occupying all of her precious wizard's time, and that if she isn't around to watch, unfortunate things might happen to her precious wizard. And the rogue? Easiest of all. The rogue wants to understand and overcome death. Dauthir is a Dread Necromancer. Dauthir can continually offer the rogue an "understanding of life eternal" in exchange for his services.

It all centers on Dauthir. Which raises the question: Why does Dauthir want these guys around? What does he see coming of this affiliation? He's your Big Bad.

[Valluman]

First off, I like the flavor of these characters. You have your arrogant gish, your obsessed villainess, your sadistic murderer, and your conniving vizier. I like the archetypes and I like the flavor.

That said, the first problem you have to overcome is that which is common to villain team-ups: To wit, the idea that, if a group of villains must team up to rival the heroes, it implies that they are individually no threat. You may want to spend some time establishing these villains as individuals, as well as team-mates, to make the opposite clear: That not only are these villains a threat individually, but as a group they border on terrifying. And then cross the border.

It strikes me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Dauthir is a puppeteer; that while Sullivan believes himself to be the leader, and the others may follow him, Dauthir is really pulling the strings. Is this correct?

If so, keeping the party together becomes surprisingly easy. Dauthir convinces Sullivan to keep them around to add to his power and glory. Dauthir convinces the witch to stay because they can help her eliminate those pesky heroes who keep occupying all of her precious wizard's time, and that if she isn't around to watch, unfortunate things might happen to her precious wizard. And the rogue? Easiest of all. The rogue wants to understand and overcome death. Dauthir is a Dread Necromancer. Dauthir can continually offer the rogue an "understanding of life eternal" in exchange for his services.

It all centers on Dauthir. Which raises the question: Why does Dauthir want these guys around? What does he see coming of this affiliation? He's your Big Bad.

This post all but says it all, and I couldn't be more grateful for it! You are right in that Dauthir is the puppeteer and Sullivan is an unwitting tool. While Sullivan is the face and "obvious leader" of the party, it's all a game played by Dauthir. I love the suggestions you gave as to how to tie it all together and to make them each individual threats.

As for what Dauthir wants with these players in his game, he will acknowledge that the hero party is rising in strength. He, even with JUST Sullivan's help, will not be able to combat against all four of our heroes. He needs more pawns or he won't be able to outmaneuver our heroes.

What is his endgame for them though? (Spoiler because it is)
Minions. The Rogue will assist in a betrayal with Dauthir, and ultimately, kill Sullivan and Reyna. What happens after that is up to the party, but one thing is for sure, Sullivan will make a GREAT minion and the Rogue a loyal servant.

[Rama]

Gotcha, misunderstood which party you were referring to.

I kinda agree with Red Fel, but a slightly different twist. The hexblade is the most likely party leader; and the out-in-the-world-to-gain-power fits for him. The Dread Necro could have been assigned by hexblade's father (or other family patriarch/matriarch) to 'advise' and protect his son while he's out furthering the family's interests.

The thief's motivations strike me as two-fold: (a) a safe haven to perform his work, and (b) protection from the consequences thereof. Perhaps he was arrested and convicted of murder at one point (either before hexblade set out on his adventure or during), and the hexblade used the family influence to get him off in exchange for a vow of loyalty.

The witch is the hardest one for me. You could go with, after rejection by the PC wizard she latched onto the hexblade as a rebound love interest (whether reciprocated, manipulated, or ignored). For initial meeting...perhaps she was retained by a branch of the family to provide some magical service, and after a successful job was slowly brought deeper into the fold as a semi-trusted hireling.

Or the family could just have access to something she wants. Maybe she's invested in trying to force the wizard to love her, and the family has a extensive library that can provide her the means to her end. All she has to do is complete a term of service, and access will be granted.

[Red Fel]

I do think you'll have to expand Sullivan's motivations eventually. Obviously, it will be easy to control him with Dauthir pouring poison (metaphorically or literally) into his ear, but you'll want it to be about more than just "power and glory."

For example, you could give him a vendetta against the heroes for besting him. That's an easy one. Or you could give him daddy issues. That's a rather trite way of phrasing it, but it's not hard to see a villain who became obsessed with power and glory as a means of earning his father's love. And as a bonus, you could present the father as an uncaring jerk; expect a lot of "I could see how Sully turned out that bad."

Then it becomes a question about how tragic you want your villains to be. Not every villain needs to be tragic; some players don't even enjoy it. Some just prefer something they can love to hate. But if your players like complexity or ambiguity... Spoiler incoming, to maintain the contents of your spoiler.

From what you've described, Dauthir is simply keeping these villains around while they're useful. Once they're more useful to him dead, he might kill them himself. And it strikes me that there is an order to their deaths.

Consider the tragic fate of the witch. It strikes me that Dauthir would want to keep her closest under control, as her obsession is a wild card. Play up her obsession as creepy and unnerving, if not completely demented. Give her a healthy dose of malice for the PCs (other than the wizard), particularly any female characters. Have her take a hostage or murder female NPCs who look at him warmly. Give the wizard a healthy dose of paranoia, make him feel like his very presence puts those around him in danger.

But also introduce conflict. When the witch appears with her compatriots, have her threaten (or even attack) anyone who menaces the wizard. Make it easy for the wizard to trick her into coming to his aid. (As a bonus, he might even feel guilty for abusing her feelings like that.) Then, at a key time, when the players are vulnerable, have her bravely interpose herself to protect her beloved wizard. Alternatively, she gets forced (mind controlled, possessed, etc.) into a situation where she makes a solo suicide attack on the party, and her obsession with the wizard is what gets her to stop - but the effort results in her death.

Yes, it's cheesy, cliche, and hammed up, but if it's done well, it'll be like punching your players in the gut.

After this, Sullivan's motivation may change. He'll be shaken by the loss of a compatriot. Maybe he never much liked her, but he was used to her being around. And killing an ally is just... Eew.

And now Dauthir's control over Sullivan begins to slip. Sullivan starts questioning Dauthir, maybe even growing a sense of honor. Perhaps the heroes at this point start discovering Sullivan's other motivations.

You get where these things go. If you want Dauthir to kill off his minions, Sullivan should be second to die. At that point, you've exposed Dauthir as your Big Bad and the rogue as his Trusted Lieutenant.

Another dramatic tip: Your PCs don't need to see Dauthir kill Sullivan and the witch. In fact, it's better if they don't, or if the players make the kills themselves, unaware that Dauthir engineered the circumstances. This becomes even more profound if they then witness Dauthir killing the rogue - that single on-screen death will cement in their minds just how evil Dauthir is.
These are just ideas, of course. I think you have some fantastic arrangements so far, and I have no doubt that you'll flesh these characters out even more. Be ready to give your players an opportunity to explore the history of their enemies; if they don't, don't be afraid to offer dialogue scenes within encounters.

[John Longarrow]

For Reyna, an easy motive could be straight jealousy that has turned to outright hate. She fell... HARD.. for the wizard, but now feels like he's cast her aside. Something about her killing his teacher to show her love just didn't .... work for him.

Now she's out to make him feel pain. Her goal is to keep him alive, until all of his friends/loved ones are dead and he feels the pain she does.

I know, sounds like half the ex-girlfriends/ex-wives in the world, but it is an architype for a reason.

Other than that, I think Red Fel hit just about everything I could advise without going into deep intrigue.

[Valluman]

@John: Her latching onto Sullivan isn't what I have in mind. Her obsession with the wizard is supposed to be a constant. She is supposed to have a creepy, unnerving air about her. Kind and compassionate to her allies and some others, but when anyone mentions, gets near, or even looks at the wizard funny, she snaps. She doesn't want any other women in his life. She doesn't want any other romantic man in her life. My brother, after hearing about her, said she sounded like a Yandere (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5oOq4S4tbM), if you've ever heard that phrase before.

@Red: Sullivan's father, as I envisioned him, is the neglectful type. He didn't care much for his son. He's arrogant to a fault and self-absorbed. He creates laws that benefit himself and creates "good" laws only to keep his serfs under his control and not angry at him. He's a slob, and the reason Sullivan is out and about is, primarily, because he refuses to be like his father. He wants a sense of true order (his own) and refuses to be a slob; he wants to EARN his immortal legacy (think Achilles). He'd never kill his own father (if he can avoid it), but he wants his make his father recognize his greatness is beyond that of a fat slob of a lord.

In general, my players enjoy tragic villains, and the ones that are just plain evil; that's why we have half and half. We have Reyna and Sullivan, the two who can be slightly relate-able and somewhat pitiable, and then we have the Rogue and Dauthir, who are just the bad guys without an ounce of light or good to be found in their twisted black hearts.

I do like the suggestion of Reyna being the wildcard that Dauthir needs to keep an eye on; it's be most inconvenient for them if Reyna just ups and attacks them because they harmed the wizard. In her mind, if anyone is going to harm the wizard, it's her because only she knows how to "treat him right".

I had actually planned on having her come to the aid of the wizard when he is near death, only to be cut down by Dauthir or the Rogue in the heat of the moment. Sullivan, of course, would not sit well with it, but he may go along with it, since she was hysterical. He'd argue against Dauthir at this point, if not outright defy him. By this point, I expect him and Reyna to have some kind of weird friendship, though nothing romantic. The players can watch as our tragic hexblade dies trying to get to Dauthir, only to have the Rogue assassinate him with an honorless death. Then, with our heroes as witnesses, we have given the party a HUGE reason to despise Dauthir and the Rogue (who will attain vampirism once the necromancer has made it to lichdom). Sullivan will now be an undead minion after that point, and maybe he has a dual with his hero counterpart or something.

As for Reyna, she may be resurrected, I imagine, by the party. She doesn't come off as the type they'd just leave dead, and the wizard, no doubt, will want her alive. One interesting thing I could do is make it so that Dauthir has her soul, thus giving our party further reason to chase him to the point he offs Sullivan.

[Red Fel]

I do like the suggestion of Reyna being the wildcard that Dauthir needs to keep an eye on; it's be most inconvenient for them if Reyna just ups and attacks them because they harmed the wizard. In her mind, if anyone is going to harm the wizard, it's her because only she knows how to "treat him right".

I had actually planned on having her come to the aid of the wizard when he is near death, only to be cut down by Dauthir or the Rogue in the heat of the moment. Sullivan, of course, would not sit well with it, but he may go along with it, since she was hysterical. He'd argue against Dauthir at this point, if not outright defy him. By this point, I expect him and Reyna to have some kind of weird friendship, though nothing romantic. The players can watch as our tragic hexblade dies trying to get to Dauthir, only to have the Rogue assassinate him with an honorless death. Then, with our heroes as witnesses, we have given the party a HUGE reason to despise Dauthir and the Rogue (who will attain vampirism once the necromancer has made it to lichdom). Sullivan will now be an undead minion after that point, and maybe he has a dual with his hero counterpart or something.

As for Reyna, she may be resurrected, I imagine, by the party. She doesn't come off as the type they'd just leave dead, and the wizard, no doubt, will want her alive. One interesting thing I could do is make it so that Dauthir has her soul, thus giving our party further reason to chase him to the point he offs Sullivan.

You're a horrible person, but I like you.

This is extremely well done. I like how you've assembled these characters. I think your players are going to love them. And hate them. And love to hate them.

[Valluman]

You're a horrible person, but I like you.

This is extremely well done. I like how you've assembled these characters. I think your players are going to love them. And hate them. And love to hate them.

If there's one thing I can do right, it's write characters! :smallcool: