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Ziegander
2013-10-07, 11:17 PM
Many have come, few have risen, to the challenge of elevating, for example, the Fighter to the lofty status of "Tier 1." Often the power level doesn't go high enough. Often it goes, absurdly, too high. But nearly always the versatility doesn't hit the mark. This goes into a lengthy discussion. For those TL;DR people among us, skip straight to the second post if you prefer.

First, let's discuss what it means to be Tier 1, as first put forth by JaronK:

JaronK's Thoughts

Capable of doing absolutely everything, often better than classes that specialize in that thing. Often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player. Has world changing powers at high levels. These guys, if played with skill, can easily break a campaign and can be very hard to challenge without extreme DM fiat or plenty of house rules, especially if Tier 3s and below are in the party.

Examples: Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Archivist, Artificer, Erudite (Spell to Power Variant).

Breaking Down the Tier Discussion
Now, let's break that down. "Capable of doing absolutely everything, often better than classes that specialize in that thing." So, in order to be considered Tier 1, the first thing you need is the versatility to contribute to all types of encounters. It is very important to note that this does not necessarily mean that you should be able to do so ALL THE TIME, nor that you should be so powerful that you are always contributing the most powerful action in every encounter. But you need to have powers that can meaningfully effect, literally, any sort of encounter from juggling peanuts, to solving riddles, to battling ghost warlocks in the Far Plane.

At this time I also feel that it is of paramount importance that I clear something up about that pesky phrase, "often better than classes that specialize in that thing." JaronK almost certainly meant better than lower Tier classes that specialize in... whatever it is that the Tier 1 is better at. For example, a Tier 1 character is often better at finding and disabling traps and/or opening locked things than a Rogue with max skill ranks, even if that Rogue takes additional feats and gets special gear to specialize. What JaronK didn't mean is that a Tier 1 character must be capable of breaking the game with every power and action it employs. When attempting to make all the classes Tier 1, this phrase, "often better than classes that specialize in that thing," is more than worthless for our purposes because it can actively encourage us to design everything about the classes as intentionally broken.

Next up, "Often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player," is also problematic for me, but it does set the stage for the power level that must be achieved for these classes. The word "often," used here, seems to be a bit disingenuous. While it is true that Tier 1 classes have many extremely powerful options as their disposal, it is equally true that there are many, many other options in their vast plethora that are of a more reasonable power level, in fact, there are many that are downright weak to terrible. So that must also be kept in mind.

A Tier 1 class, "Has world changing powers at high levels," which is absolutely true and another aspect of the Tier that I would argue to be essential to such a class' proper design. And another important element is player skill; "these guys, if played with skill, can easily break a campaign and can be very hard to challenge." Again, the very important things to remember is that with skill these classes can easily break a campaign and/or be very difficult to challenge. Too often Tier 1 projects like this forget the importance of player skill or optimization in the design and come up with a class with a base competence level that is something more like a brokenly powerful Tier 3 or 4 even before player skill is taken into account. That should not be the goal. The base competence level of any Tier 1 class can and should be fairly low, from Tier 4, 5, or even 6, and up to its Tier 1 potential when played correctly.

Let's Talk Design
Okay, so with that bit of discussion out of the way, let's move on. Let's talk about the actual design work that must go into a Tier 1 class. And it's a LOT of work. Concentrating on just the Core Player's Handbook, we have the Cleric, the Druid, and the Wizard as our Tier 1 classes. Each of these three classes have the versatility to contribute to any sort of encounter, and each of them, even limited only to the Core PHB, are capable of easily wrecking campaigns when played to their full potential. And yet, each of them has a unique and easily recognizable identity with its own conceptual space and design space. They do all cast spells, be they arcane or divine they essentially work the same, and they do share a small number of spells, but for the most part they have unique spell lists and class features. These are powerful classes that are fun to play. Perhaps a shade too powerful in some cases, but that is almost entirely the fault of a handful of spells and not necessarily in the spirit of the class designs.

This uniqueness of each Tier 1 is important. They each have their own niche. They each do certain things better than the others, or have more ways of doing certain things than the others, or both. In this way, it is entirely possible to have a Tier 1 Fighter or Rogue that do not cover the full scope of mundane character expression, or at least do not do so in a way that makes other forms of mundane expression obsolete or irrelevant. And that is something we must keep in mind.

In my mind, I see one easy way to tackle the design of at least three new Tier 1 classes, which is to work from the three fundamental "pillars" of D&D: Combat, Exploration, and Social Interaction. We know a Tier 1 class needs to be able to contribute to all of these pillars in often powerful ways, but using these pillars we can arrive at three classes, each of which is especially useful in situations that revolve around one of the pillars. For example, a Tier 1 Fighter can have powers like Knightly Bearing to assist him in social situations or Watchful Sentry to apply to exploration, but it is in Combat where the Tier 1 Fighter really shines. I would suggest that it's fully reasonable then to derive a Tier 1 Fighter (with a bit taken from the Paladin), a Tier 1 Rogue (with plenty of stuff taken from the Bard and Factotum) specializing in Social Interaction, and a Tier 1 Ranger (with some powers taken from the Barbarian) specializing in Exploration. If that sounds kind of crazy, well, that's because something like this, as far as I know, has never been attempted before, at least at this scale. In the next post I will draw up the basic chassis and class features for each of these three Tier 1 classes, and in the posts that follow I will begin to drum up the lists of powers that each has access to.

Ziegander
2013-10-07, 11:18 PM
The Fighter

http://i44.tinypic.com/1907ly.jpg

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d12

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Action Points|
Deeds

1st|+1|+2|+2|+2|Bonus Feats, Weapon Mastery|
2|
Great

2nd|+2|+3|+3|+3||
3|
"

3rd|+3|+3|+3|+3|Mettle|
5|
"

4th|+4|+4|+4|+4||
6 (1d2)|
"

5th|+5|+4|+4|+4||
8 (1d2)|
Masterful

6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+5||
9 (1d2)|
"

7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+5||
11 (1d2)|
"

8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+6||
12 (1d4)|
"

9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6||
14 (1d4)|
Heroic

10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+7||
15 (1d4)|
"

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+7||
17 (1d4)|
"

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+8||
18 (1d6)|
"

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+8||
20 (1d6)|
Legendary

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+9||
21 (1d6)|
"

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+9||
23 (1d6)|
"

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+10||
24 (1d8)|
"

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10||
26 (1d8)|
Impossible

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+11||
27 (1d8)|
"

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+11||
29 (1d8)|
"

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+12||
30 (1d10)|
"
[/table]

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier): Appraise, Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Geography, History, Nobility & Royalty, or Religion; taken separately), Listen, Profession, Ride, Spot, and Swim.

Proficiencies: A Fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all armors, and with all shields (including Tower Shields).

Deeds & Action Points
A Fighter employs great deeds, not spells, to overcome his obstacles, though once he reaches high level a commoner may be hard-pressed to tell the difference. Over the course of his life, he learns many of these special techniques and as he gains Fighter levels he accrues greater and greater Deeds.

Deeds come in five grades. At first level, a Fighter is only capable of learning and using Great Deeds. At 5th level he gains access to Masterful Deeds, at 9th he may use Heroic Deeds, at 13th he may learn Legendary Deeds, and at 17th level and higher he can shock the world with Impossible Deeds.

A Fighter begins play knowing just one Deed, and learns one additional Deed every time he gains another Fighter level. In addition, he may seek out and learn new Deeds, either from other Fighters, or from songs, stories, legends, and so on. Learning a new Deed in this manner costs experience— 50 xp to learn a new Great Deed, 200 to learn a new Masterful Deed, 500 to learn a new Heroic Deed, 1000 to learn a new Legendary Deed, and 2500 to learn a new Impossible Deed. Seeking out evidence of a Deed in song and story take time— 1d2 days for a Great Deed, 1d4 days for a Masterful Deed, 1d6 days for a Heroic Deed, 1d8 days for a Legendary Deed, and 1d10 days for an Impossible Deed.

To use a Deed, a Fighter must expend Action Points (or AP for short) — one AP for a Great Deed, 3 for a Masterful Deed, 6 for a Heroic Deed, 9 for a Legendary Deed, and 12 for an Impossible Deed. Fighters begin each day with a number of Action Points as given in the table above. After eight hours of rest, a Fighter regains all expended Action Points. Starting at 4th level, a Fighter is able to recover 1d2 expended AP during the course of an adventuring day at the beginning of any combat encounter. As a Fighter gains class levels the dice of AP he may recover via the above methods increases in size as indicated in the table above.

Bonus Feats
At 1st level, a Fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The Fighter gains an additional bonus feat at every even Fighter level thereafter (2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as Fighter bonus feats. A Fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

At any time, after 1d4 hours of practice a Fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the Fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability.

Weapon Mastery (Ex): If the Fighter has any feats that are normally only applied to or used with a specific weapon or weapons (such as Weapon Focus or Lightning Maces), he may apply those feats to, or use them with, any weapons that he is proficient with.

Mettle (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, whenever the Fighter would be subject to a partial effect on a successful Fortitude or Will save, he instead suffers no effect whatsoever.

The Ranger
http://u.jimdo.com/www29/o/sed6d34052fb2e8c0/img/i6b043ac3133c4066/1361297869/std/image.jpg

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d10

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Action Points|
Deeds

1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Animal Companion, Track, Wild Empathy|
2|
Great

2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Camouflage, Endurance|
3|
"

3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Trackless Step, Uncanny Dodge|
5|
"

4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Evasion|
6|
"

5th|+5|+4|+4|+1||
8|
Masterful

6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+2|Improved Uncanny Dodge|
9|
"

7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+2||
11 (1d2)|
"

8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+2|Swift Tracker|
12 (1d2)|
"

9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+3||
14 (1d2)|
Heroic

10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+3|Flawless Stride|
15 (1d2)|
"

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+3||
17 (1d4)|
"

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+4|Hide in Plain Sight|
18 (1d4)|
"

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+4||
20 (1d4)|
Legendary

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+4|Improved Evasion|
21 (1d4)|
"

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+5||
23 (1d6)|
"

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+5|Freerunner|
24 (1d6)|
"

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+5||
26 (1d6)|
Impossible

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+6|Peerless Cunning|
27 (1d6)|
"

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+6||
29 (1d8)|
"

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+6|Terrain Mastery|
30 (1d8)|
"
[/table]

Class Skills (6 + Int modifier): Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Geography, History, or Nature; all taken separately), Listen, Move Silently, Ride, Search, Speak Language, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble, and Use Rope.

Proficiencies: A Ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light and medium armors, and with shields (but not Tower Shields).

Deeds & Action Points
A Ranger employs great deeds, not spells, to overcome her obstacles, though once she reaches high level a commoner may be hard-pressed to tell the distance. Over the course of her life, she learns many of these special techniques and as she gains Ranger levels she accrues greater and greater Deeds.

Deeds come in five grades. At first level, a Ranger is only capable of learning and using Great Deeds. At 5th level she gains access to Masterful Deeds, at 9th she may use Heroic Deeds, at 13th she may learn Legendary Deeds, and at 17th level and higher she can shock the world with Impossible Deeds.

A Ranger begins play knowing just one Deed, and learns one additional Deed every time she gains another Ranger level. In addition, she may seek out and learn new Deeds, either from other Rangers, or from songs, stories, legends, and so on. Learning a new Deed in this manner costs experience— 50 xp to learn a new Great Deed, 200 to learn a new Masterful Deed, 500 to learn a new Heroic Deed, 1000 to learn a new Legendary Deed, and 2500 to learn a new Impossible Deed. Seeking out evidence of a Deed in song and story take time— 1d2 days for a Great Deed, 1d4 days for a Masterful Deed, 1d6 days for a Heroic Deed, 1d8 days for a Legendary Deed, and 1d10 days for an Impossible Deed.

To use a Deed, a Ranger must expend Action Points (or AP for short) — one AP for a Great Deed, 3 for a Masterful Deed, 6 for a Heroic Deed, 9 for a Legendary Deed, and 12 for an Impossible Deed. Rangers begin each day with a number of Action Points as given in the table above. After eight hours of rest, a Ranger regains all expended Action Points. Starting at 7th level, a Ranger is able to recover 1d2 expended AP during the course of an adventuring day at the beginning of any encounter involving a natural disaster or hazard (such as lava or a tornado) or whenever the party discovers a new, plot-relevant location (as determined by the DM). As a Ranger gains class levels the dice of AP she may recover via the above methods increases in size as indicated in the table above.

Animal Companion (Ex): A Ranger may begin play with an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the following creatures are also available: porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the druid on her adventures as appropriate for its kind.

A 1st-level Ranger’s companion is completely typical for its kind except as noted here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#theDruidsAnimalCompanion). As a Ranger advances in level, the animal’s power increases as shown on the table. If a Ranger releases her companion from service, she may gain a new one by performing a ceremony requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of prayer. This ceremony can also replace an animal companion that has perished.

A Ranger of 4th level or higher may select from alternative lists of animals. Should she select an animal companion from one of these alternative lists, the creature gains abilities as if the character’s Ranger level were lower than it actually is. Subtract the value indicated in the appropriate list header from the character’s Ranger level and compare the result with the Ranger level entry on the table to determine the animal companion’s powers. (If this adjustment would reduce the Ranger’s effective level to 0 or lower, she can’t have that animal as a companion.)

Track: A Ranger begins play with the Track feat as a bonus feat.

Wild Empathy (Ex): A Ranger can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The Ranger rolls 1d20 and adds her Ranger level and her Charisma modifier to determine the wild empathy check result.

The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

To use wild empathy, the Ranger and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.

A Ranger can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but she takes a -4 penalty on the check.

Camouflage (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a Ranger can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

Endurance: At 2nd level, the Ranger gains the Endurance feat as a bonus feat.

Trackless Step (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Ranger leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. She may choose to leave a trail if so desired.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Ranger can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

If the Ranger already has Uncanny Dodge from a different class she automatically gains Improved Uncanny Dodge instead.

Evasion (Ex): At 4th level and higher, a Ranger can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. The Ranger does not gain the benefit of evasion, if she is helpless, wearing heavy armor, or carrying a heavy load.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A Ranger of 6th level or higher can no longer be flanked, except by creatures with at least four more HD than she has.

This defense can deny Rogues and other creatures the ability to sneak attack the Ranger by flanking her.

If a character already has Uncanny Dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains Improved Uncanny Dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant Uncanny Dodge stack to determine the minimum HD required to flank the character.

Swift Tracker (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a Ranger can move at her normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal -5 penalty, and she takes only a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

Flawless Stride (Ex): Starting at 10th level, a Ranger can move through any sort of terrain that slows movement (such as undergrowth, rubble, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment.

This ability does not let her move more quickly through terrain that requires a Climb or Swim check to navigate, nor can she move more quickly through terrain or undergrowth that has been magically manipulated to impede motion.

A Ranger loses this benefit when wearing heavy armor or when carrying a heavy load.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a Ranger of 12th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

Improved Evasion (Ex): Beginning at 14th level, while the Ranger still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks henceforth she takes only half damage even on a failed save. A helpless Ranger does not gain the benefit of Improved Evasion.

Freerunner (Ex): At 16th level and higher, a Ranger can slip out of bonds, grapples, and even the effects of confining spells easily. This ability duplicates the effect of a Freedom of Movement spell, except that it is always active. A Ranger loses this benefit when wearing heavy armor or when carrying a heavy load.

Peerless Cunning (Ex): Starting at 18th level, a Ranger is never caught flat-footed and cannot be surprised and, thus, always gets an action during a surprise round.

Terrain Mastery (Ex): At 20th level, a Ranger is able to use terrain to such great effect that as long as she is in any sort of natural terrain, whenever she makes an attack roll, a strength or dexterity based ability check, a strength or dexterity based skill check, or a Reflex saving throw, she rolls twice and takes the better result.

The Rogue
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DHlkEM5mAMo/THP1gtrXJeI/AAAAAAAAAFA/buxgLb0pUYQ/s1600/rogue-20071202-031430.jpg

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d8

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Action Points|
Deeds

1st|+0|+0|+2|+2|Sneak Attack, Trapfinding|
2|
Great

2nd|+1|+0|+3|+3|Information Broker, Spellcasting Dilettante (0-level)|
3|
"

3rd|+2|+1|+3|+3|Confident Swagger|
5|
"

4th|+3|+1|+4|+4|Guile|
6|
"

5th|+3|+1|+4|+4|Spellcasting Dilettante (1st)|
8|
Masterful

6th|+4|+2|+5|+5|Trap Sense (20ft)|
9|
"

7th|+5|+2|+5|+5||
11 (1d2)|
"

8th|+6/+1|+2|+6|+6|Spellcasting Dilettante (2nd)|
12 (1d2)|
"

9th|+6/+1|+3|+6|+6||
14 (1d2)|
Heroic

10th|+7/+2|+3|+7|+7|Reproachful Mien|
15 (1d2)|
"

11th|+8/+3|+3|+7|+7|Spellcasting Dilettante (3rd)|
17 (1d4)|
"

12th|+9/+4|+4|+8|+8|Slippery Mind|
18 (1d4)|
"

13th|+9/+4|+4|+8|+8||
20 (1d4)|
Legendary

14th|+10/+5|+4|+9|+9|Spellcasting Dilettante (4th)|
21 (1d4)|
"

15th|+11/+6/+1|+5|+9|+9||
23 (1d6)|
"

16th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+10|Social Graces|
24 (1d6)|
"

17th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+10|Spellcasting Dilettante (5th)|
26 (1d6)|
Impossible

18th|+13/+8/+3|+6|+11|+11|Trap Sense (30ft)|
27 (1d6)|
"

19th|+14/+9/+4|+6|+11|+11||
29 (1d8)|
"

20th|+15/+10/+5|+6|+12|+12|Spellcasting Dilettante (6th)|
30 (1d8)|
"
[/table]

Class Skills (8 + Int modifier): All skills are considered class skills for a Rogue.

Proficiencies: A Rogue is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, longbow, longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Rogues are proficient with light armor but not with shields.

Deeds & Action Points
A Rogue employs great deeds, not spells, to overcome his obstacles, though once he reaches high level a commoner may be hard-pressed to tell the difference. Over the course of his life, he learns many of these special techniques and as he gains Rogue levels he accrues greater and greater Deeds.

Deeds come in five grades. At first level, a Rogue is only capable of learning and using Great Deeds. At 5th level he gains access to Masterful Deeds, at 9th he may use Heroic Deeds, at 13th he may learn Legendary Deeds, and at 17th level and higher he can shock the world with Impossible Deeds.

A Rogue begins play knowing just one Deed, and learns one additional Deed every time he gains another Rogue level. In addition, he may seek out and learn new Deeds, either from other Rogues, or from songs, stories, legends, and so on. Learning a new Deed in this manner costs experience— 50 xp to learn a new Great Deed, 200 to learn a new Masterful Deed, 500 to learn a new Heroic Deed, 1000 to learn a new Legendary Deed, and 2500 to learn a new Impossible Deed. Seeking out evidence of a Deed in song and story take time— 1d2 days for a Great Deed, 1d4 days for a Masterful Deed, 1d6 days for a Heroic Deed, 1d8 days for a Legendary Deed, and 1d10 days for an Impossible Deed.

To use a Deed, a Rogue must expend Action Points (or AP for short) — one AP for a Great Deed, 3 for a Masterful Deed, 6 for a Heroic Deed, 9 for a Legendary Deed, and 12 for an Impossible Deed. Rogues begin each day with a number of Action Points as given in the table above. After eight hours of rest, a Rogue regains all expended Action Points. Starting at 7th level, a Rogue is able to recover 1d2 expended AP during the course of an adventuring day anytime at the beginning of any social encounter. As a Rogue gains class levels the dice of AP she may recover via the above methods increases in size as indicated in the table above.

Social Interaction Ability
Choose one of Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma. Your chosen ability score is your Rogue's Social Interaction Ability and defines how he interacts with the world at large.

Sneak Attack (Ex): If a Rogue can catch an opponent when it is unable to defend itself effectively from his attack, he can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The Rogue deals 1d6 extra damage any time his target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the Rogue flanks his target. This extra damage increases by 1d6 every two class levels thereafter. Should the Rogue score a critical hit with a Sneak Attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Ranged attacks can count as Sneak Attacks only if the target is within the first range increment of the Rogue's weapon.

With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a Rogue can make a Sneak Attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. He cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a Sneak Attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.

A Rogue can only Sneak Attack living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also immune to Sneak Attacks.

In order to successfully Sneak Attack his target, a Rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A Rogue cannot Sneak Attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Trapfinding (Ex): Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. He is entitled to make a Search check when passing within 10ft of any trap as if he were actively looking for it, and gains a +2 bonus to AC and to saving throws against the attacks of any trap.

Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

A Rogue who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with his party) without disarming it.

Information Broker (Ex): A 2nd-level Rogue may make a special check with a bonus equal to his class level + his Social Interaction Ability modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. (If the Rogue has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), he gains a +2 bonus on this check.)

A successful check will not reveal the powers of a magic item but may give a hint as to its general function. A Rogue may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random.

{table=head]DC|Type of Knowledge

10|Common, known by at least a substantial minority of the local population.

20|Uncommon but available, possibly legend, known by only a few people.

25|Obscure, known by few, hard to come by.

30|Extremely obscure, known by very few, possibly forgotten by most who once knew it, possibly known only by those who don’t understand the significance of the knowledge.
[/table]

Spellcasting Dilettante (Sp): Starting at 2nd level, a Rogue may replicate the effects of spells through study and unusual resources. Once per day, after 8 hours of rest, the Rogue may spend 1 hour gathering resources and studying tomes and scrolls in order to prepare a number of spell-like abilities up to one per two class levels. These spell-like abilities are drawn from the Cleric, Druid, and/or Wizard spell lists. Later in the day, he may cast any of these spell-like abilities as a standard action by expending a number of action points equal to the spell's level + 1

At 2nd level, a Rogue may only prepare 0-level spells, cantrips and orisons, in this manner, but as he gains levels he may use this feature to prepare spell-like abilities of higher level as shown in the table above.

Confident Swagger (Ex): A 3rd-level Rogue adds his Social Interaction Ability modifier to all Strength and Dexterity-based skill and ability checks he makes.

Guile (Ex): Starting at 4th level, whenever the Rogue would be subject to half damage on a successful Reflex save or a partial effect on a successful Will save, he instead suffers no effect whatsoever.

Trap Sense (Ex): Starting at 6th level, a Rogue is entitled to make a Search check when passing within 20ft of any trap as if he were actively looking for it and gains a +4 bonus to AC and saving throws against the attacks of traps. At 18th level, the distance increases to 30ft and the bonus to AC and saving throws increases to +6.

Reproachful Mien (Ex): A 10th-level Rogue adds his Social Interaction Ability modifier to his AC against attacks made by intelligent creatures.

Slippery Mind (Ex): Starting at 12th level, even when a Rogue fails a Will save against a Mind-Afflicting effect that effect ends at the end of his next turn.

Social Graces (Ex): A 16th level Rogue adds his Social Interaction Ability modifier to all saving throws.

Ziegander
2013-10-07, 11:20 PM
The Deeds
(Much, much more to come...)

Active & Passive Deeds
When a character uses an Active Deed, he or she expends action points as normal; however a Passive Deed works somewhat differently. Passive Deeds seldom require an action to use (though some do). When a character chooses to use a Passive Deed, he or she continues to benefit from that Deed's effects until it is dismissed. He or she expends the required action points to begin a Passive Deed's effects and until the Deed is dismissed his or her maximum AP value is reduced by the Deed's cost, prohibiting the recovery of AP beyond the new, reduced total. A character can reduce his or her maximum AP to 0 in this manner if he or she wishes, but not lower.

Deeds & Saving Throw DCs
The saving throw of a Deed is determined as 10 + 1/2 class level + relevant ability score modifier. The relevant ability score modifier can vary based on the exact Deed used as follows:


Strength modifier for any Deed involving a melee attack or opposed Strength check.
Constitution modifier for any Deed involving a Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity based skill check, or when specifically noted.
Dexterity modifier for any Deed involving a ranged attack or opposed Dexterity check. You may also use your Dexterity modifier when using a Deed involving a melee attack if you possess the Weapon Finesse feat, or a similar ability.
Intelligence modifier for any Deed involving an Intelligence based skill check, or for any Deed that doesn't involve any of the above if Intelligence is your highest ability score among Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.
Wisdom modifier for any Deed involving a Wisdom based skill check, or for any Deed that doesn't involve any of the above if Wisdom is your highest ability score among Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.
Charisma modifier for any Deed involving a Charisma based skill check, or for any Deed that doesn't involve any of the above if Charisma is your highest ability score among Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.
If a Deed involves more than one of the above, you may choose which of the appropriate ability score modifiers to use to determine the Deed's save DC.


Great Deeds
Combat
Animalistic RageRgr: Fly into a rage.
Baffling DefenseRog: Use Sense Motive in place of AC.
Bloodletting StrikeFtr, Rgr, Rog: Deal minor Con damage.
Bounding AssaultFtr, Rgr, Rog: Move and attack.
Clever PositioningFtr, Rgr, Rog: Swap places with enemy.
CounterattackFtr, Rgr, Rog: Attack a foe who attacks you.
Counter ChargeFtr, Rgr, Rog: Ruin enemy's charge attack.
Daunting StrikeFtr, Rgr, Rog: Cause struck foe to be Shaken.
Death from AboveFtr, Rgr, Rog: Leap onto foe for extra damage.
Defensive RebukeFtr: Punish foe for attacking an ally.
Dirt NapFtr, Rgr: Knock foe unconscious.
Disarming StrikeFtr, Rog: Attack and disarm at once.
Douse the FlamesFtr: Struck foe cannot act out of turn.
Feigned OpeningFtr, Rog: Let your guard down. Or do you?
Fencer's GambleFtr, Rog: Take a risk for extra damage.
Glittering FlourishFtr, Rog: Dazzle nearby foes.
HamstringFtr, Rgr, Rog: Deal Dex damage, slow foe.
Hold the LineFtr: Attack foes that get too close.
Iron Guard's GlareFtr: Discourage enemies from attacking your allies.
Karmic StrikeFtr, Rgr, Rog: Bonus to hit for you and for foes.
Leading the ChargeFtr, Rgr, Rog: Bonus to damage for you and allies while charging.
Lightning RecoveryFtr: Reroll attack with bonus.
Martial SpiritFtr: Regain hit points on successful attacks.
Mighty ThrowFtr, Rgr: Toss your opponent.
Minotaur ChargeFtr, Rgr: Your attack pushes foe back.
Plunderer's PietyRog: Channel positive energy.
Punishing StanceFtr, Rgr: Sacrifice defense for killing power.
Quick DistractionFtr, Rgr, Rog: Foe thinks it is flanked.
Shield BlockFtr, Rgr: Use shield to protect ally.
Steel WindRgr: Attack two enemies at range.
Stone ViseFtr, Rgr: Attack and grab opponent.
Sweeping StrikeFtr: Attack two enemies in melee.
Tactical StrikeFtr: Grant free 5ft steps with successful attack.
Tiring StrikeFtr, Rgr, Rog: Fatigue a struck foe.
Vanguard StrikeFtr, Rgr, Rog: Allies gain attack bonus against struck foe.
Victorious BlowFtr: Heal with successful attack.
Wall of BladesFtr: Use attack roll in place of AC.
Weakening StrikeFtr, Rgr, Rog: Successful attack inflicts Str penalty.
Weapon ExpertiseFtr, Rgr: Gain proficiency, bonuses, with touched weapon.
Wolf Fang StrikeFtr, Rgr: Attack with two weapons.

, Quickness of MindFtr, Rgr, Rog, Roaring AvalancheFtr, Rgr, Weapon TemperingFtr, Rgr, Battle LoreFtr, Rgr, Rog, Dust UpFtr, Rgr, Rog, Acrobatic ChargeFtr, Rgr, Rog, Stand ToughFtr, Rgr, Rog, GoadFtr, Rgr, Rog, Grave StrikeRog, Vine StrikeRog, Arrow MindFtr, Rgr, Golem StrikeRog,

MASTERFUL DEEDS -
BackbreakerFtr, Rgr: Paralyze a human foe with brutal strike.
BlindstrikeFtr, Rgr, Rog:
Rapid RelocationFtr, Rgr, Rog:

FoehammerFtr, Rgr, Find the GapFtr, Rgr, Rog, Insightful StrikeRog, Exorcism of SteelFtr, Devastating ThrowFtr, Rgr, DungeoncrasherFtr, Rgr, EviscerateRgr, Lion's RoarFtr, Rgr, Soaring ChargeFtr, Rgr, Zealot's BlowFtr, TanglesteelFtr, Improved Fencer's GambleFtr, Rog, Whirlwind AssaultFtr, Rgr, Shieldbreaking StrikeFtr, Touch of DeathRog, Fountain of BloodFtr, Rgr, Rog, White Raven StrikeFtr, Disrupting BlowFtr, Rog, Full CounterFtr, Rgr, Rog, Iron FocusFtr, Stupefying StrikeFtr, Rgr, Rog, Dancing MongooseRgr, Rog, Pouncing ChargeRgr, Rog, Flanking ManeuverFtr, Rgr, Rog, Improved Victorious BlowFtr, Scorpion ParryFtr, Rgr, Wolf Climbs the MountainRgr, Order from ChaosFtr, War Leader's ChargeFtr, Shield CounterFtr, Rgr, Fool's StrikeRog, Enervating StrikeRog, Finishing MoveFtr, Rgr, Mirrored PursuitFtr, Rgr, Rog, Greater RageRgr, Greater FrenzyRgr, BladetrapFtr, Rgr, Rog, Sheltering ShieldFtr, Rgr, Air SlashFtr, Rgr, Rog, Improved BackbreakerFtr, Rgr, WitchhammerFtr, Rgr, Absolute Steel StanceFtr, Combat SuperiorityFtr, StaredownFtr, Rgr, Rog, Defensive RollFtr, Rgr, Rog, Savage GrappleRgr, Deadly StrikeRog, Throat StrikeRog,

HEROIC DEEDS - Ingenious TacticsFtr, Hero's ChargeFtr, Iron Heart SurgeFtr, Ballista ThrowFtr, Rgr, Rallying StrikeFtr, Greater Insightful StrikeRog, Moment of AlacrityFtr, Rgr, Rog, Steely EnduranceFtr, Rgr, Avalanche of BladesFtr, Rgr, Quicksilver MotionFtr, Rgr, Rog, Hydra-Slaying StrikeFtr, Rgr, Death in the DarkRog, Colossus StrikeFtr, Rgr, Swooping Dragon StrikeRgr, Rog, Clarion CallFtr, Rgr, Greater Zealot's BlowFtr, Diamond DefenseFtr, Rgr, Rog, Greater Fencer's GambleFtr, Rog, Hurricane SlashFtr, Rgr, Lightning ThrowFtr, Rgr, Rog, Girallon's WrathRgr, Tombstone StrikeFtr, Rgr, Rog, Mighty RageRgr, Fleet FrenzyRgr, Meteoric ChargeFtr, Rgr, Lightning ChargeFtr, Rgr, Rog, Ghost StrikeRog,

LEGENDARY DEEDS - Godsblessed BlowFtr, Time Stands StillFtr, Rgr, Rog, Strike of Perfect ClarityFtr, Tornado ThrowFtr, Rgr, Earthshaking BlowFtr, Rgr, Full Moon SlashFtr, Rgr, Void ParryFtr, Indomitable IndignationFtr,

IMPOSSIBLE DEEDS -

Exploration Deeds
GREAT DEEDS - Step of the WindFtr, Rgr, Rog, Dune's BlessingFtr, Rgr, Rog, Inner WarmthFtr, Rgr, Rog, Child of ShadowRgr, Rog, Hunter's SenseRgr, Sudden LeapFtr, Rgr, Rog, Trap ScouterFtr, Rgr, Rog, Great LeapFtr, Rgr, Rog, Speed ClimbFtr, Rgr, Rog, SpellgraceRog, Mark CreatureRgr, Mark LocationRgr, Speedy StealthRgr, Rog, Steady StanceFtr, Rgr, Rog, Adjust the EyesFtr, Rgr, Rog, Danger SenseFtr, Rgr, Rog, HunchFtr, Rgr, Rog, Kip UpFtr, Rgr, Rog, Slow FallFtr, Rgr, Rog, Quick SearchRgr, Rog, Quick DiversionRgr, Rog, BrachiationFtr, Rgr, Rog, Quick SwimmingFtr, Rgr, Rog, ReconnoiterFtr, Rgr, Rog, Iron SilenceFtr, Rgr, Rog, Easy TrailRgr, BloodhoundRgr, DiversionRgr, Rog,

MASTERFUL DEEDS - Dance of the SpiderRgr, Rog, Roots of the MountainFtr, Rgr, Rog, Reading the EarthFtr, Rgr, Rog, Ready and WaitingFtr, Rgr, Rog, HawksightRgr, Gazelle's PaceRgr, Rog, ImprovisationFtr, Rgr, Rog,

HEROIC DEEDS - Hearing the AirFtr, Rgr, Rog, Follow ThroughFtr, Rgr, Rog, Leap of the HeavensFtr, Rgr, Rog, GreenshroudRgr,

LEGENDARY DEEDS - Step of the Dancing MothRgr, Rog, Blazing SpeedFtr, Rgr, Rog, After-Image IllusionRog, Ghost SightFtr, Rgr, Rog, ShadowformRgr, Rog,

IMPOSSIBLE DEEDS - Balance on the SkyFtr, Rgr, Rog, ForesightFtr, Rgr, Rog, HindsightFtr, Rgr, Rog,

Social Interaction Deeds
GREAT DEEDS - Great EnlistmentFtr, Rog, Analyze EquipmentFtr, Rgr, Rog, Action Before ThoughtFtr, Rgr, Rog, Mind Over BodyFtr, Rgr, Rog, Moment of Perfect MindFtr, Rgr, Rog, Threatening DemandFtr, Rgr, Rog, Steal SpellRog, Cover IdentityRog,

MASTERFUL DEEDS - Masterful EnlistmentFtr, Rog, Forge LoreFtr, Rgr, Rog, Know Thy EnemyFtr, Rgr, Rog, Quick CraftingFtr, Rgr, Rog, Discover SpellsRog,

HEROIC DEEDS - Heroic EnlistmentFtr, Rog,

LEGENDARY DEEDS - Legendary EnlistmentFtr, Rog,

IMPOSSIBLE DEEDS - Impossible EnlistmentFtr, Rog,

Ziegander
2013-10-07, 11:21 PM
Name
DEED ()
Cost:
Classes:
Action:
:
:
:

Analyze Equipment
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: 10 minutes
Target: One weapon, armor, or shield item
This Deed works like the Identify spell except that it works much faster but only on weapons, armors, and shields. Unlike the spell, this Deed does not require any material component.

Animalistic Rage
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Ranger only
Action: Swift
Target: Self
Duration: 3 + Con modifier rounds
Choose any two between Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. You gain a +4 bonus to each ability score as well as the following additional benefits and for the duration:

Strength and Dexterity - You may make an additional attack each round during a full-attack action at your highest attack bonus. If you make an extra attack in this way, all of your attacks for the round suffer a -2 penalty to hit.
Strength and Constitution - You gain a +2 bonus to Will saves and DR 1/--, but suffer a -2 penalty to AC. The DR you gain from this Deed improves by 1 every five class levels (max DR 5/--).
Dexterity and Constitution - You gain a +10ft bonus to all speeds and ignore difficult terrain. Foes treat any squares you move through, and all squares you threaten at the end of your turn, as difficult terrain for 1 round.

For the duration of this Deed, you cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can you cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. You can use any feat you have except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats.

You may prematurely dismiss this Deed at any time. After the Deed is dismissed or has expired, you lose the rage modifiers and restrictions and become Fatigued for the duration of the current encounter.

You may only use this Deed once per encounter.

Backbreaker
MASTERFUL DEED (Active)
Cost: 3 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger
Action: Standard
Target: One humanoid creature
Effect: Melee attack
Duration: 1 round/level (see text)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
If your melee attack against the target is successful, you deal 4d6 extra damage and the target must succeed at a Fortitude save or become Paralyzed. This condition lasts for 1 round per level, or until the creature has regained hit points equal to the damage dealt by your attack, or until it has received the benefit of a successful DC 17 Heal check.

Baffling Defense
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Rogue
Action: Immediate
Target: Self
You cannot use this Deed if you are flat-footed. Against a single attack, in place of your AC, make a Sense Motive check. You must use the result of this check even if it would be worse than your normal AC.

Blindstrike
MASTERFUL DEED (Active)
Cost: 3 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Reflex negates
If your weapon attack against the target is successful, that creature must succeed on a Reflex saving throw or be Blinded. This condition lasts for 24 hours, until the creature has regained hit points equal to the damage dealt by your attack, or until it has received the benefit of a successful DC 15 Heal check.

Bloodletting Strike
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
If your weapon attack against the target is successful the attack deals 2 Constitution damage as well as normal weapon damage (Fort negates).

Bounding Assault
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
Move up to your speed and make a weapon attack against the target. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity from your target, but it may from other creatures whose threatened areas you move through.

Clever Positioning
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Melee attack
Saving Throw: Reflex partial
If your melee attack against the target is successful you, or an ally that is adjacent to the target, may swap spaces with the target. If the target fails a Reflex saving throw it fails prone in its new space.

Counterattack
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Immediate
Use this Deed to make an attack of opportunity against a creature that is attacking you. Resolve your attack simultaneously with your opponent's.

Counter Charge
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Immediate
Target: Self
You gain a +4 bonus to AC against a single charge attack. If the attack misses, your attacker bounds past you 10ft in the direction of your choice.

Daunting Strike
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
Duration: 1 minute
Saving Throw: Will negates
If your weapon attack against the target is successful, that creature must succeed on a Will saving throw or be Shaken for the duration.

Death from Above
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Full-round
Target: One creature
Effect: Charge attack
To use this Deed you must make a charge attack against the target by jumping from a height at least 10ft above that creature. For every 10ft higher you jump from you gain an additional +1 bonus to your attack roll and suffer an additional -1 to your AC for 1 round. If your charge attack against the target is successful you deal 1d6 extra damage per 10ft fallen (max 10d6, no more than 2d6/level) and take only half the normal fall damage (which can be mitigated further by Jump and/or Tumble checks). If your attack fails you take all normal fall damage.

Defensive Rebuke
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter only
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
If your weapon attack against the target is successful and the target attacked or cast a harmful spell on one of your allies last round, then the attack deals 1d6 extra damage, and the target must make a Will saving throw. If that save fails, then the target cannot attack that ally for 1 round per level.

Dirt Nap
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger
Action: Swift
Target: One tripped creature
Duration: 5 rounds
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Use this Deed on any creature you threaten that was just tripped or knocked prone. That creature must succeed on a Fortitude save or fall unconscious as if effected by the Sleep spell. This Deed has no effect on creatures with more than 4 HD.

Disarming Strike
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Rogue
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
If your weapon attack against the target is successful you may make a free Disarm attempt against that creature. You get a +4 bonus to your attempt, and if you fail the target may not try to disarm you in response. You may use a ranged attack with this Deed, but you forgo the +4 bonus and the target must be within your weapon's first range increment.

Douse the Flames
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter only
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Duration: 1 round
If your weapon attack against the target is successful, that creature must make a Fortitude saving throw. If this save fails, the target is effectively Dazed for 1 round but only during other creature's turns, unable to act or make attacks of opportunity. If the save is successful, then the target is still unable to make attacks of opportunity for the duration.

Feigned Opening
GREAT DEED (Passive)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Rogue
Action: Swift
Target: Self
Duration: Dismissal
For the duration of this Deed you are flat-footed. The first time a creature attacks you that creature provokes an attack of opportunity from you. Against your attack, if you take it, that creature is flat-footed, and if your attack hits, the creature's attack fails. However, if your attack fails and the enemy's attack succeeds, the Deed automatically ends.

Fencer's Gamble
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Rogue
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Melee attack
Roll your melee attack against the target twice. If only one attack roll beats the target's AC you hit and deal damage normally. If both attack rolls beat the target's AC you deal 1d6 extra damage. But if neither attack rolls beat the target's AC you suffer a -2 penalty to AC until the start of your next turn.

Forge Lore
MASTERFUL DEED (Passive)
Cost: 3 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: None
Duration: Dismissal
For the duration of this Deed you maintain the benefits of the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat and can produce alchemical or magical items and equipment as a spellcaster with an Effective Caster Level equal to your ranks in any relevant Craft skill (examples given below). This allows you to create items without needing to cast any of the required spells, though you must still take item creation feats to craft items other than weapons or armor.

Examples:

Craft (Armorsmithing) - Covers armors and shields as well as bracers, gauntlets, greaves, helmets, and other similar items.

Craft (Haberdashery) - Covers all cloth and leather articles of clothing such as boots, cloaks, gloves, pants, and shirts, as well as other related or similar items.

Craft (Metalwork) - Covers metal jewelry such as amulets, bracelets, or rings, and other simple metal tools and goods like spades or manacles and bells or chimes.

Craft (Weaponsmithing) - Covers all weapons, including arrows and bolts, and other related or similar items.


Glittering Flourish
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Rogue
Action: Swift
Area: 30ft burst (see text)
Duration: 1 minute
Saving Throw: Reflex (see text)
You may use this Deed after making a melee attack (successful or not) or after executing a harmless flourish with a melee weapon (standard action). Creatures in the area, centered on you, must succeed on a Reflex save to avoid being Dazzled for 1 minute. If you made a melee attack, and if that attack was a confirmed critical hit, then the victim of your attack automatically fails its saving throw.

Great Enlistment
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Rogue
Action: Standard
Duration: 1d4 hours
This Deed allows you to call on any 1st-level NPC class to serve you faithfully for 1d4 hours. In order to use this Deed you must be within a settlement of at least 100 people. Once you use it roll 1d6 and choose an NPC class. The DM has the right to state that the settlement does not have any NPCs of that class, especially in smaller settlements and for more unusual NPC classes. After 1d6×5 minutes the NPC appears, ready to work, and equipped with gear appropriate to its level. It has whatever feats and skills you choose (that it could normally qualify for or are normally on its skill list) and the following ability scores distributed as you see fit: 17, 16, 14, 13, 10, 8.

The NPC will serve faithfully, but not to the death. It will leave your service before the duration is up if it is Frightened or Panicked, if it drops below 50% of its maximum hp, or if you are knocked unconscious or killed.

Hamstring
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Reflex negates
If your weapon attack against the target is successful, that creature must succeed on a Reflex saving throw or suffer 1d4 Dexterity damage and have its speed reduced by 10ft. This speed reduction lasts for 24 hours, until the creature has recovered from the Dexterity damage, or until it has received the benefit of a successful DC 15 Heal check.

Hold the Line
MASTERFUL DEED (Active)
Cost: 3 AP
Classes: Fighter
Action: Immediate
Use this Deed to make an attack of opportunity against a creature that enters one of your threatened squares. If that creature was charge attacking you, you gain a +2 bonus to your attack roll, and if the attack of opportunity is successful you deal double damage.

Iron Guard's Glare
GREAT DEED (Passive)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter only
Action: None
Target: Self
For the duration of this Deed any enemy able to see you or hear you suffer a -4 penalty to attack rolls against allies within your speed.

Karmic Strike
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
Make your weapon attack with a +4 bonus to hit against the target. Until the start of your next turn, all attacks made against you have a +4 bonus to hit.

Leading the Charge
GREAT DEED (Passive)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Swift
Area: 30ft burst
Range: Personal
Duration: Dismissal
For the duration of this Deed, you and each ally within 30ft deal +1 damage per character level (max +10) on charge attacks.

Lightning Recovery
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter
Action: Immediate
Target: Self
Reroll a missed attack roll with a +4 bonus.

Martial Spirit
GREAT DEED (Passive)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter
Action: None
Target: Self
Duration: Dismissal
For the duration of this Deed whenever you successfully hit an enemy creature with a weapon attack, if that enemy is one that you would gain XP from for defeating, you regain 2 hit points +2 per five class levels.

Mighty Throw
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Make a melee touch attack against your target. If you hit, then you and the target make an opposed check, each choosing either Strength or Dexterity for the contest. If you succeed, you hurl the target up to 10ft away from you in any direction. You choose where the target lands. The target and any other creatures or objects in the space suffer 1d6 damage.

A creature you throw with this Deed does not provoke attacks of opportunity for passing through threatened squares, but you can throw the target through occupied squares (even those occupied by its enemies).

Minotaur Charge
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger
Action: Full-round
Target: One creature
Effect: Charge attack
If your charge attack against the target is successful it deals 1d6 extra damage and you gain a free Bull Rush attempt against the target. You gain a +4 bonus to your roll. If successful you push the target 5ft back and you move into the space it previous occupied.

Plunderer's Piety
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Rogue only
Action: Standard
Area or Target: 30ft burst or One creature (see text)
Range: Personal or Touch
Presenting the holy symbol of a deity no more than one alignment step away from your own, you channel positive energy either to Turn Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead) as a good-aligned Cleric would (only in a smaller area) or to heal the wounds of an ally. When you use this Deed to heal, you restore 1d6 hit points per level (max 5d6) to a touched ally whose alignment is no more than one step away from the deity whose holy symbol you are presenting.

This Deed may only be used once per day per deity whose holy symbol you present. The more holy symbols you can collect of deities that are compatible with your alignment, the more times you can use this Deed each day.

Punishing Stance
GREAT DEED (Passive)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger
Action: Swift
Target: Self
Duration: Dismissal
For the duration of this Deed you deal 1d6 extra damage but suffer a -2 penalty to AC.

Quick Distraction
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Swift
Target: One creature
Range: 30ft
Duration: 1 round
The target of this Deed temporarily believes itself to be in more danger than it really is, causing it to be considered flanked for 1 round even when only threatened by one creature.

Rapid Relocation
MASTERFUL DEED (Active)
Cost: 3 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Immediate
After an attack misses you or you succeed on a Reflex save to avoid damage you may use this Deed to move up to your speed as an immediate action.

Soaring Charge
MASTERFUL DEED (Active)
Cost: 3 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger
Action: Full-round
Target: One creature
Effect: Charge attack
For the purposes of movement during the charge attack you make when using this Deed you have a Fly speed with perfect maneuverability equal to double your land speed. If your charge attack against the target is successful you deal 1d6 extra damage for every 10ft you traveled before completing the charge (max 10d6). If you end your turn in mid-air, then at the start of your next turn you start to fall (or you can grab onto the target of your charge if possible).

Stone Vise
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Melee attack
If your melee attack against the target is successful you may automatically grab your opponent as if to start a grapple. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the target. If you choose to grab your target, make an opposed grapple check to hold the target with a +4 bonus. If this hold is successful you deal the target 1d6 lethal damage or your unarmed strike damage (whichever is higher) and you are now grappling the target.

Strike of Perfect Clarity
LEGENDARY DEED (Active)
Cost: 9 AP
Classes: Fighter only
Action: Standard (See text)
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
For this Deed and attack you do not need line of effect; however, you must at minimum be aware of a creature occupying the space into which you attack. To use this Deed with a ranged attack your target must be within your weapon's first range increment.

Your weapon attack against the target automatically hits regardless of cover or magical protection. Roll an attack roll anyway to see if it is a critical hit. The target is instantly destroyed/slain unless it succeeds on a Fortitude saving throw.

You may use Strike of Perfect Clarity in place of a normal attack whenever you make an attack of opportunity.

Shield Block
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger
Action: Immediate
Target: One ally within reach
The target adds your shield bonus + 4 to its AC against a single attack, even if that ally already carries a shield.

Steel Wind
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Ranger only
Action: Standard
Target: Up to two creatures
Effect: Ranged attack
Your ranged attack targets up to two creatures that are adjacent to each other. Roll separately for each creature.

Sweeping Strike
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter only
Action: Standard
Target: Up to two creatures
Effect: Melee attack
Your melee attack targets up to two creatures that are adjacent to each other. Roll separately for each creature.

Tactical Strike
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter only
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
If your weapon attack against the target is successful it deals 1d6 extra damage, and all allies able to see the target may take an immediate 5ft step.

Threatening Demand
GREAT DEED (Active) [Compulsion, Fear, Language-Dependent]
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Full-round action
Target: One or two creatures (see text)
Range: 30ft (see text)
Effect: Weapon attack (see text)
Saving Throw: Will partial (see text)
One way or another you communicate to your victim that either they do what you ask, "or else." The target must either be a creature you threaten or an ally of a creature you threaten that is within 30ft of you. The target is subject to a Command effect as the spell, and the threat is that you will hurt the target or the ally of that target if they do not comply. If the target's Will save is successful you may make a single melee attack against whichever creature you threaten if you wish.

The saving throw for this Deed is Charisma-based.

Tiring Strike
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
If your weapon attack against the target is successful, the target becomes Fatigued (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#fatigued).

Vanguard Strike
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Standard or Full-round (see text)
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
Duration: 1 round
If your weapon attack against the target is successful, allies that can see the target gain a +4 bonus to their own attack rolls against the target for 1 round. If you choose, you may use this Deed as a full-round action and make a charge attack against the target with a melee weapon as long as there is at least a 10ft straight line between you and the target.

Victorious Blow
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter only
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
Duration: See text
If your weapon attack against the target is successful you, or an ally that can see you, gain 1d6 + 1/level temporary hit points (max 1d6+5) which last either until the end of the combat encounter or until the target is defeated or killed, whichever comes first.

If the target is defeated or killed and you (or the recipient ally) had any temporary hit points remaining, after you lose those temporary hit points you regain a number of actual hit points equal to the number of temporary hit points you lost.

In order to use this Deed, the target must be a creature that you would gain XP from for defeating.

Wall of Blades
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter only
Action: Immediate
Target: Self
You must wield a melee weapon with which you are proficient to use this Deed or else carry no weapon but possess the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. You cannot use this Deed if you are flat-footed. Make a melee attack roll. Against a single attack, if the result of your attack roll is higher than your AC, substitute your attack roll in place of your AC. Otherwise use your AC as normal.

Weakening Strike
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Effect: Weapon attack
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
If your weapon attack against the target is successful, the target suffers a penalty to its Strength score equal to 1d6 + 1/level (maximum 1d6+5) unless it succeeds on a Fortitude saving throw. This penalty cannot reduce the target's Strength below 1 and does not stack with other Strength penalties inflicted on the target.

Weapon Expertise
GREAT DEED (Passive)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger
Action: Swift
Target: Weapon touched
Duration: Dismissal
For the duration of this Deed you gain proficiency with the touched weapon and a +1 competence bonus to attack and damage rolls made when attacking with it.

Wolf Fang Strike
GREAT DEED (Active)
Cost: 1 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger
Action: Standard
Target: Up to two creatures
Effect: Melee attack
You must fight with two weapons to use this Deed. You may make one or both of these attacks as an unarmed strike if you wish as long as you carry nothing in a hand used to make such an attack. Make an attack with both of your weapons, reducing the penalty for fighting with two weapons by 2 for each attack. Your attacks may be made either against two different creatures within your reach or against the same creature, as you choose.

bekeleven
2013-10-07, 11:42 PM
I feel it would be prudent to point out that while you are technically correct that there is high variability in tier 1 playability, and that they can have a very wide gulf in effectiveness based on build, that's largely because there is so much raw material available to tier 1s - mainly, spells. If attempting to create a class that's equally complicated to play - in other words, not just a similar optimization ceiling, but also a similar floor - you'll need to produce material on the same order of magnitude.

unbeliever536
2013-10-07, 11:56 PM
For the social specialist, I think we should lean more towards the beguiler than the bard. We want Odysseus, not Homer.

Let's call that variation of the class the Trickster. It should have awesome ability to blend in to a crowd and stand out when needed, a solid but not unmatched stealth capability, with some mobility options; after all, combat is the largest pillar: the Trickster and the ...Explorer? no, that doesn't work...that other one will have some overlap. They can be more thoroughly differentiated by environmental and thematic differences (the Trickster is the urban expert, the other is the wilderness guru; wilderness gets a bunch of good Knowledges, etc).

The Trickster should to be able to steal both physical and metaphysical objects.

It should have abilities that help it manipulate its enemies into leaving the party alone, rather than focus on damage.

It will likely struggle against foes that are immune to mind-affecting effects, so it needs some effective way to deal with that. This might key off of being able to outsmart such a creature; maybe give the class some kind of Trick the Untrickable ability that would let it use its mind-affecting abilities (or a version of them) on such creatures in a limitted fashion.

I also don't think there is really going to be a standard chassis; saves, hit dice, and BAB are going to be an excellent way to differentiate these classes. Consider the other tier 1s: we have two d8 HDs with medium BAB and good fort and will saves. The wizard has a d4 HD, poor BAB, and a good will save.

In fact, I think we could do great differentiating the tier 1 mundanes by their saves:
-The explorer is tough and agile, but not particularly strong minded: good fort and ref, poor will.
-The warrior is tough and determined, but not especially nimble: good fort and will, poor ref.
-The trickster is supple and unruly, but frail: good ref and will, poor fort.

Ziegander
2013-10-08, 12:13 AM
I feel it would be prudent to point out that while you are technically correct that there is high variability in tier 1 playability, and that they can have a very wide gulf in effectiveness based on build, that's largely because there is so much raw material available to tier 1s - mainly, spells. If attempting to create a class that's equally complicated to play - in other words, not just a similar optimization ceiling, but also a similar floor - you'll need to produce material on the same order of magnitude.

Absolutely, and much of the work has been done for us, when considering "up-tiering" the existing classes. But, yeah, it's going to be a massive, ridiculous amount of design work.


For the social specialist, I think we should lean more towards the beguiler than the bard. We want Odysseus, not Homer.

Let's call that variation of the class the Trickster.

You're right, Bard doesn't evoke the right meaning. I had thought it originally meant a man capable of a wide variety of skills, but it's basically always just meant poet or singer. So, rather than Beguiler or Trickster, I might as well stick with the name Rogue.


I also don't think there is really going to be a standard chassis; saves, hit dice, and BAB are going to be an excellent way to differentiate these classes. Consider the other tier 1s: we have two d8 HDs with medium BAB and good fort and will saves. The wizard has a d4 HD, poor BAB, and a good will save.

Oh, no worries, I don't mean to have one standard chassis between the three classes, not at all. I just don't want to try and come up with a plural form of chassis to use for that section (no matter what I think of, it sounds and looks silly).

bekeleven
2013-10-08, 01:29 AM
You're right, Bard doesn't evoke the right meaning. I had thought it originally meant a man capable of a wide variety of skills, but it's basically always just meant poet or singer. So, rather than Beguiler or Trickster, I might as well stick with the name Rogue.

How about the Renaissance Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymath)?

Morph Bark
2013-10-08, 03:16 AM
One thing that also needs to be taken into account is the ability to switch from doing one thing very well to doing another thing very well at least on a daily basis (and possibly even faster).

Ziegander
2013-10-08, 04:26 AM
One thing that also needs to be taken into account is the ability to switch from doing one thing very well to doing another thing very well at least on a daily basis (and possibly even faster).

Good point. One that I did not address in the above essay, but still one that I planned to account for in the design. I'll be sure to amend the essay.

Ziegander
2013-10-08, 02:31 PM
Why not just call him a polymath (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymath)? :smallwink:

Actually, BECMI had four paths to achieving immortality, which might be used as inspiration for tier 1 class concepts. The names were:

{table=head]Path | Sphere | Favoured Class | Element
Dynast | Time | Cleric | Water
Epic hero | Thought | Rogue | Air
Paragon | Energy | Wizard | Fire
Polymath | Matter | Fighter | Earth
[/table]

While I don't want to use the word Polymath for a class name, this is pretty interesting. I like the way it ties themes like Thought and Matter as well as elements to each of the classes. I might use this as inspiration.

To all: I've got the class chassis up for the Fighter, Ranger, and Rogue! The basic rules, extrapolated from Grod's work (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307285), for the Deed system have been laid down and now the bulk of the design work, the Deeds themselves, needs to be drawn up. I'll be looking to you all for feedback and suggestions!

zlefin
2013-10-08, 04:31 PM
Looks plausible, though I have the same quibbles about interpretation of the tier system as always (the causation direction of definitions)
But trying to replicate a system that's proven to be unbalanced seems rather unnecessary. Making characters with a huge optimization height (difference between floor and ceiling) is what creates the problem in the first place; since it causes hard to control variance in actual play, as any balance point will leave a lot of room.

Making tier 1 mundanes seems more for fun than practicality; as tier 3 has better gameplay overall. If I make a tier 1 mundane, they're going to be more on the just plain powerful side :)

Good luck on your plan though.

Ziegander
2013-10-08, 05:00 PM
But trying to replicate a system that's proven to be unbalanced seems rather unnecessary. [...] Making tier 1 mundanes seems more for fun than practicality; as tier 3 has better gameplay overall.

It's basically just an entertaining thought experiment.


Good luck on your plan though.

Thanks! I am hitting a hard writer's block at these Deeds. I can't think of anything...

zlefin
2013-10-08, 05:16 PM
well, for deeds, how about just browsing through some myths and legends? that should provide some prospects at least.

bekeleven
2013-10-08, 05:40 PM
Since most of the raw power appears to be coming from Deeds, this looks like it will be Tier 2. They're closer to Sorc spells than to Wizard or Cleric spells.

toapat
2013-10-08, 06:19 PM
Since most of the raw power appears to be coming from Deeds, this looks like it will be Tier 2. They're closer to Sorc spells than to Wizard or Cleric spells.

actually, it will become T1 eventually with enough deeds added to the system, sorcerers are T2 because it is difficult to, within their limited spellpool, attain prefect flexibility

Ziegander
2013-10-08, 07:13 PM
Since most of the raw power appears to be coming from Deeds, this looks like it will be Tier 2. They're closer to Sorc spells than to Wizard or Cleric spells.

The biggest differences being that each of these three classes has no cap on the number of Deeds they can learn, and they can also recover AP throughout the day for more longevity. I would hope that these mechanics are enough to push them to Tier 1, but if not, then we'll adjust later. Watching Lord of the Rings for inspiration!

For the Fighter: What we're looking for, when it comes to Deeds, is anything we can imagine a warrior feasibly doing in combat, exploration, and social interaction.

Reality Glitch
2013-10-08, 07:44 PM
Are you eventually going to make a tier 1 Factotum?

Ziegander
2013-10-08, 07:47 PM
Are you eventually going to make a tier 1 Factotum?

No, but only because the Tier 1 Rogue is going to be the same basic thing.

Reality Glitch
2013-10-08, 07:51 PM
How so? It still seems very rouge-y to me and not "Missing a wizard? Ican do that! Missing a Rouge? I can do that! Missing a Psychic Warrior? I can do that!" etc., etc.

Ziegander
2013-10-08, 08:01 PM
How so? It still seems very rouge-y to me and not "Missing a wizard? Ican do that! Missing a Rouge? I can do that! Missing a Psychic Warrior? I can do that!" etc., etc.

Well, I guess in its current state it might look like that, but it does have a fair number of abilities that are basically stolen directly from the Factotum already, and when I get around to designing the Deeds I can steal even more.

I almost threw Spellcasting Dilettante in there, but it felt a little wrong. Maybe I'll put it back in? What do others think of this? I could replace Danger Sense, seeing how it is pretty terrible, mechanically and thematically.

Milo v3
2013-10-08, 08:31 PM
I think the regaining action points abilities should be their own abilities, rather than a small bit at the end of the deeds sections. It'd fill out the table more, remind people that they actually get something at that level aside from the deed system, and I would likely look abit better.

Also, did they have to be action points. It seems like theres already at least fifteen sub-systems with that name throughout d20 systems :smalltongue:

awa
2013-10-08, 09:05 PM
I had an idea for something similar you may want to consider to give them a look as ideas for deeds.

note these were unfinished ideas

spy network the pc attracts a spy network in most cities which would allow him to make knowledge checks with a big bonus and have a wealth pool he could use to acquire specialty gear. At higher level it would allow the pc to make a check of some kind to detect people plotting against him.

How predictable the pc may leave a readied action undeclared

body double if the pc was killed it turns out it was just one of his agents in disguise the "real" pc may then enter play.

just the tool for the job the pc has a wealth pool of undefined items. at any time the pc may draw an item deducting its value from the wealth pool. You may reset your wealth pool any time you enter a city. items lost or consumed from the wealth pool reduce its total value until you spend gold coins equal to the lost items value.

playing dead when the pc is killed he actually faked it and suffered minimum possible result he may now reenter play

Quellian-dyrae
2013-10-08, 09:10 PM
I'm a little unsure on those recovery methods. A little wording to ensure the skill-based ones are on relevant checks would probably be good. The ranger survival one seems kinda...awkward as well (is walking through a burning bush for 1d6 damage "surviving an elemental hazard"?) The fighter crit one isn't quite as "bend the RAW to my benefit" exploitable, but can be overpowered in an entirely other way - TWF, high crit weapons, improved critical, go to town. Likewise, dropping an ECL - 4 or higher opponent seems like the sort of thing you would do...probably easily enough that you can have a good shot at recovering more AP than you'd spend. The rogue bypass one I think is reasonable, although I kinda feel it should make an allowance for stealth.

My thought would be more like:

Fighter - Recover upon succeeding an encounter through direct combat. During a combat encounter (but no more than once per round), recover upon rolling a natural 20 on an attack roll.

Ranger - Recover by surviving an encounter where your life was endangered. During a life-threatening encounter (but no more than once per round), recover upon rolling a natural 20 on a saving throw.

Rogue - Recover by succeeding or bypassing an encounter without recourse to violence. During a non-violent encounter (but no more than once per round), recover upon rolling a natural 20 on a skill check.

I'm also curious why you went with base damage die for Sneak Attack? That actively discourages archetypal rogue weapons like daggers.

ben-zayb
2013-10-08, 09:52 PM
Would this, however, imply that a rogue no longer covers the archetype of the pure-athlete guy or the masterthief (who may or may not have social skills?) From this three classes, it would seem the athlete is more at home with either the Fighter or the Ranger class, while the masterthief is... I don't know. Rogues seem to be restricted in that they're always social animals, while some perceive rogues as more of skill-monkeys, plain and simple (which may include being socially competent)

I could also see three sub-archetypes (for each) that might give some ideas/foci in designing deeds. This division basically highlights three further distinctions/"flavors" that may be applied whether the deed is physical, mental, or social: finesse, power, and resistance (yeah, it's inspired by NWoD)
Fighter
Daredevil
Warrior/Tactician/Berserker
Defender/Knight-Paladin

Ranger
Hunter/Detective
Barbarian
Survivalist

Rogue
Chessmaster
Cutthroat
Diplomat

toapat
2013-10-08, 10:18 PM
anything

Samurai Jack post training, where in he could jump several hundred feet in the air with a gentle push

hey, it can even let us deal with flight

Ziegander
2013-10-08, 11:26 PM
I'm a little unsure on those recovery methods.

Indeed, as am I.


A little wording to ensure the skill-based ones are on relevant checks would probably be good.

Any suggestions for how to fix it? I agree, it needs to only be awarded for relevant checks, but I don't know how to encode that in the rules. The relevance of such a check depends so much on what is going on at the table as part of the plot, influenced by what the players are choosing to do and how the GM responds...


The ranger survival one seems kinda...awkward as well (is walking through a burning bush for 1d6 damage "surviving an elemental hazard"?)

Well, no, but I guess environmental hazards aren't as clearly defined by the rules as I was remembering. It is meant to only be stuff like cave-ins, avalanches, tornadoes, or even total immersion in acid/lava, or whirlpools. It would include magically altered or created weather/hazards.


The fighter crit one isn't quite as "bend the RAW to my benefit" exploitable, but can be overpowered in an entirely other way - TWF, high crit weapons, improved critical, go to town. Likewise, dropping an ECL - 4 or higher opponent seems like the sort of thing you would do...probably easily enough that you can have a good shot at recovering more AP than you'd spend.

Well, keeping in mind that it is by design that the Fighter has the "easiest" recovery methods (because I plan to have his exploration and social interaction options curtailed compared to the other two) I agree that they are a bit too easy perhaps. Of course, the Deed costs and the AP recovery amounts can be tweaked a little. The crit one should definitely be removed, though, you're right. Too exploitable.


The rogue bypass one I think is reasonable, although I kinda feel it should make an allowance for stealth.

It should, you're right, I'll amend the wording.


My thought would be more like:

Fighter - Recover upon succeeding an encounter through direct combat. During a combat encounter (but no more than once per round), recover upon rolling a natural 20 on an attack roll.

Ranger - Recover by surviving an encounter where your life was endangered. During a life-threatening encounter (but no more than once per round), recover upon rolling a natural 20 on a saving throw.

Rogue - Recover by succeeding or bypassing an encounter without recourse to violence. During a non-violent encounter (but no more than once per round), recover upon rolling a natural 20 on a skill check.

I will look into these. They are a bit vague, but still they have some merit over mine.


I'm also curious why you went with base damage die for Sneak Attack? That actively discourages archetypal rogue weapons like daggers.

Just a spur of the moment decision. Didn't put much thought into it. It was more experimental. I'll just go back to the simple d6s.


Would this, however, imply that a rogue no longer covers the archetype of the pure-athlete guy or the masterthief (who may or may not have social skills?) From this three classes, it would seem the athlete is more at home with either the Fighter or the Ranger class, while the masterthief is... I don't know. Rogues seem to be restricted in that they're always social animals, while some perceive rogues as more of skill-monkeys, plain and simple (which may include being socially competent).

Certainly not. Swagger ensures that the Rogue's base athletic skills are quite high, and he's a Tier 1 class. Now, he may not be exactly the athlete that the Ranger is, depending on Deed selection anyway, but he's absolutely no slouch in that department. While he is focused on social interaction he certainly isn't restricted in any meaningful way from pursuing a more athletic course.


I could also see three sub-archetypes (for each) that might give some ideas/foci in designing deeds. This division basically highlights three further distinctions/"flavors" that may be applied whether the deed is physical, mental, or social: finesse, power, and resistance (yeah, it's inspired by NWoD)
Fighter
Daredevil
Warrior/Tactician/Berserker
Defender/Knight-Paladin

Ranger
Hunter/Detective
Barbarian
Survivalist

Rogue
Chessmaster
Cutthroat
Diplomat


Certainly. Thanks, that does help some.


Samurai Jack post training, where in he could jump several hundred feet in the air with a gentle push

hey, it can even let us deal with flight

Yeah, I like it. Probably coming online somewhere around Heroic/Legendary.

qwertyu63
2013-10-09, 08:48 AM
Here are some rules text for jumping flight, use it as you see fit:

Jump Speed: As a move action you may jump up to your jump speed in any direction. As a double move action you may jump up to 2x your jump speed. The PC may also take the run action while jumping which is base speed x4 (x5 with run feat). Unlike most jumping, this does not require a running start. You may choose to jump less then the full distance allowed to you, if you wish.

You can make these jumps off of any surface (walls, floors, ceilings, trees, other creatures up there, etc). As a full round action, you may jump up to your jump speed in any direction without any support at all, but you take 1d6 points of non-lethal damage for doing this.

Furthermore, if you are in freefall, you may choose to fall half the speed you would fall. Making this choice is a free action, and lasts until you hit the ground or jump again. This slowdown, in addition to slowing your fall to control your location, cuts any falling damage you would take from that fall in half.

Ziegander
2013-10-09, 09:50 AM
Here are some rules text for jumping flight, use it as you see fit:

Jump Speed: As a move action you may jump up to your jump speed in any direction. As a double move action you may jump up to 2x your jump speed. The PC may also take the run action while jumping which is base speed x4 (x5 with run feat). Unlike most jumping, this does not require a running start. You may choose to jump less then the full distance allowed to you, if you wish.

You can make these jumps off of any surface (walls, floors, ceilings, trees, other creatures up there, etc). As a full round action, you may jump up to your jump speed in any direction without any support at all, but you take 1d6 points of non-lethal damage for doing this.

Furthermore, if you are in freefall, you may choose to fall half the speed you would fall. Making this choice is a free action, and lasts until you hit the ground or jump again. This slowdown, in addition to slowing your fall to control your location, cuts any falling damage you would take from that fall in half.

Jump speed. What an intriguing and useful idea. Thanks!

EDIT: So, I've got some idea of what Legendary Combat Deeds would look like, but what does an Impossible Combat Deed look like? For perspective, I'm imagining Strike of Perfect Clarity (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16175455&postcount=4) as a Legendary Deed.

unbeliever536
2013-10-09, 04:29 PM
That looks more like an Impossibe deed to me (as do several others on the Legendary combat list, which sound like 9th level spells being approximately replicated). In any event, murder anyone at any range with the ability to recover the option seems a little crazy at any level.

GhostwheelZ
2013-10-09, 04:48 PM
You might want to take a look at F&K's Tome material (http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Category:Tome) (look at the top--particularly at Races of War) for idea mining--they basically do that through updated classes and feats. Just as an example, their Fighter (http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Fighter,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)) at higher levels can interrupt just about any action using a ranged touch attack--twice per round, at high enough levels.

Ziegander
2013-10-09, 05:05 PM
That looks more like an Impossibe deed to me (as do several others on the Legendary combat list, which sound like 9th level spells being approximately replicated). In any event, murder anyone at any range with the ability to recover the option seems a little crazy at any level.

Changed the range rules of it. The question that needs to be asked is, "How does this compete with 9th level spells?" A save-or-die on a melee attack only compares with a 5th level spell. A save-or-die on a ranged attack only compares with a 7th level spell. So, since Strike of Perfect Clarity is certainly superior to Finger of Death, I would put it on par with an 8th level spell. Strong, perhaps, for 13th level, but not strong enough for 17th. Maybe I should tone it down just a little more.

EDIT: Requesting inspiration and/or suggestions regarding Social Interaction Deeds.

Amechra
2013-10-09, 05:33 PM
Social Interaction Deeds:

Learn about a culture by interacting with people; for example, learning the entire code of laws for a kingdom by chatting with one of their subjects, and watching reactions.
Create a disguise that can pretty much serve as an alternate identity; higher Deeds let you do stuff like "being" in multiple places at once (actually, you just give the impression that one of your disguises was there) and making the disguise "freeware", so that everyone can be Spartacus.
Learn people's names, family background, religious beliefs, and current greatest worry (or something like that) by glancing at their faces.
Redefine what commands a given character can be given (if you convince them that they are immortal, they won't have any problem with slitting their own throats, right?)
Cause everyone involved to see a deal as favorable, regardless of whether it is or not.
Convince yourself of a lie so well that it counts as the truth for all intents and purposes; do the same the other way around.
Do that James Bond thing where he is always able to get the girl.
Nonmagical commands.


If you want, I already have some notes on the second one in my head; I can flesh them out at work tonight.

Ziegander
2013-10-09, 05:40 PM
Create a disguise that can pretty much serve as an alternate identity; higher Deeds let you do stuff like "being" in multiple places at once (actually, you just give the impression that one of your disguises was there) and making the disguise "freeware", so that everyone can be Spartacus.
Cause everyone involved to see a deal as favorable, regardless of whether it is or not.
Convince yourself of a lie so well that it counts as the truth for all intents and purposes; do the same the other way around.


I especially like these.


If you want, I already have some notes on the second one in my head; I can flesh them out at work tonight.

Absolutely. I have a long, hard road ahead of me with this project.

Amechra
2013-10-09, 05:42 PM
Any specifications you have on pricing?

Ziegander
2013-10-09, 05:54 PM
Any specifications you have on pricing?

You mean AP cost?

toapat
2013-10-09, 06:13 PM
Jump speed. What an intriguing and useful idea. Thanks!

EDIT: So, I've got some idea of what Legendary Combat Deeds would look like, but what does an Impossible Combat Deed look like? For perspective, I'm imagining this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16175455&postcount=4) as a Legendary Deed.


The Riddle of Steel seems like a good template for a few legendary deeds

Unyielding Flesh
Legendary Deed
Cost: 2AP
class: Any
Action: standard
Target: Self
Duration: 1 Minute/Level

Your flesh is strong, resilient, and Unyielding in its conviction. for as long as you are performing this deed, you have DR15/Epic+Flesh

Ziegander
2013-10-09, 06:18 PM
The Riddle of Steel seems like a good template for a few legendary deeds

Wat dat?


Unyielding Flesh
Legendary Deed
Cost: 2AP
class: Any
Action: standard
Target: Self
Duration: 1 Minute/Level

Your flesh is strong, resilient, and Unyielding in its conviction. for as long as you are performing this deed, you have DR15/Epic+Flesh

Not sure what Epic+Flesh means, but otherwise this would cost 9 AP (due to being a Legendary Deed) and be a great candidate for a Passive Deed, "investing" the AP and recovering a portion once the Deed is dismissed.

Amechra
2013-10-09, 06:47 PM
Yes, I meant AP costs.

Milo v3
2013-10-09, 06:54 PM
Yes, I meant AP costs.

There isn't variable costs....

Ziegander
2013-10-09, 07:32 PM
Yes, I meant AP costs.

For the time being the costs are sitting at:

Great Deeds 1 AP, Masterful Deeds 3 AP, Heroic Deeds 6 AP, Legendary Deeds 9 AP, and Impossible Deeds 12 AP.

In the future that is all subject to change, but for now that's what I've arrived upon.

toapat
2013-10-09, 07:35 PM
Wat dat?



Not sure what Epic+Flesh means, but otherwise this would cost 9 AP (due to being a Legendary Deed) and be a great candidate for a Passive Deed, "investing" the AP and recovering a portion once the Deed is dismissed.

The Riddle of Steel is a thing from Conan the Barbarian

as far as Epic + Flesh, it means the only way to bypass the DR is with Epic (6+ enhancement) and Natural attacks, or someone beating you in the head with a leg of Epic Venison.

basically, its non-poetic form is that, life can shape anything it chooses, and that it can break whatever it chooses. Steel, inversely, has neither the will nor ability to do so on its own.

Ziegander
2013-10-09, 07:38 PM
The Riddle of Steel is a thing from Conan the Barbarian

Okay, but for the purpose of using it as some sort of Deed template, I still don't know what it is.


as far as Epic + Flesh, it means the only way to bypass the DR is with Epic (6+ enhancement) and Natural attacks, or someone beating you in the head with a leg of Epic Venison.

basically, its non-poetic form is that, life can shape anything it chooses, and that it can break whatever it chooses. Steel, inversely, has neither the will nor ability to do so on its own.

Interesting. I like it. It would have to be spelled out in the Deed itself, not simply written as Epic and Flesh, but the concept is cool and it works well.

EDIT: Does anyone else agree with my worry that I've made the baseline Rogue a bit too powerful for this exercise? Even without Spellcasting Dilettante, this Rogue, compared to the Core version has slightly more HP, slightly better skills, slightly better proficiencies, slightly better Sneak Attack, better Evasion, and trades Trap Sense, (Improved) Uncanny Dodge, and Special Abilities for Information Broker, Confident Swagger, Reproachful Mien, (better) Slippery Mind, and Social Graces, all useful and powerful abilities. I think I may have to go and dial it back a ways.

Morph Bark
2013-10-10, 04:32 AM
You might want to take a look at F&K's Tome material (http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Category:Tome) (look at the top--particularly at Races of War) for idea mining--they basically do that through updated classes and feats. Just as an example, their Fighter (http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Fighter,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)) at higher levels can interrupt just about any action using a ranged touch attack--twice per round, at high enough levels.

The scaling feats are great. I allow each of my players to take only one of them, but granting some as bonus feats to these classes would be a great idea.


EDIT: Does anyone else agree with my worry that I've made the baseline Rogue a bit too powerful for this exercise? Even without Spellcasting Dilettante, this Rogue, compared to the Core version has slightly more HP, slightly better skills, slightly better proficiencies, slightly better Sneak Attack, better Evasion, and trades Trap Sense, (Improved) Uncanny Dodge, and Special Abilities for Information Broker, Confident Swagger, Reproachful Mien, (better) Slippery Mind, and Social Graces, all useful and powerful abilities. I think I may have to go and dial it back a ways.

NOPE. SO MUCH NOPE. STRONG GOOD.

(Unless you want them to be Tier 4 if you take away the Deeds?)

Ziegander
2013-10-10, 09:33 AM
(Unless you want them to be Tier 4 if you take away the Deeds?)

I did in fact. I think the Fighter and Ranger are there, but the Rogue, with Dilettante, feels really close to Tier 3 in this version before talking Deeds.

EDIT: I tried playing around with the Rogue class table and I decided... I like the Rogue where it is. In fact... I made it even slightly more useful giving it the Trap Sense feature to fill in a couple holes. Looking at it, without the Deeds, the Rogue, even with Spellcasting Dilettante, is still probably hovering in some nebulous area between "capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competence without truly shining," and "capable of doing all things, but not as well as classes that specialize in that area." Having extensively playtested a Factotum I would call it Tier 4, not Tier 3, because of how lacking it is in combat. The class requires some serious cheese to be viable. The Rogue in this thread, on the other hand, at least has Sneak Attack to rely on which is (or is not) viable depending on the encounter in question. So, it's somewhat closer to Tier 3 than the Factotum, perhaps, but still probably Tier 4. So I think we're good.

bekeleven
2013-10-10, 06:56 PM
For more deed ideas look at this page (http://www.cs.utah.edu/~cms/gaming/ry_synopsis.html) and control-F "How Aspect Works".

Ziegander
2013-10-10, 10:55 PM
For more deed ideas look at this page (http://www.cs.utah.edu/~cms/gaming/ry_synopsis.html) and control-F "How Aspect Works".

This is an epic resource (no pun intended). Thanks! It will especially be valuable for coming with ideas, I think, for Social Deeds.

EDIT: I'm smashing through all the Great-level Combat Deeds as fast as I can. I also included Soaring Charge today as an example of a solid, low-level "flight" option before things like Leap of the Heavens, Step of the Dancing Moth, or Balance on the Sky. I will probably need to start a whole new thread for the Deeds before long. There's going to be a whole, massive mess of these things.

EDIT2: At this point I am considering adding traditionally "psychic" talents to the list of Deeds, especially for Exploration and Social Interaction, at the higher levels, starting in Heroic. How do other people feel about this?

Fizban
2013-10-11, 06:27 AM
Even if they're supposedly overpowered and meant as a thought experiment, I would totally play or even run a game with these classes as long as everyone was using them. I probably wouldn't want to play a spellcaster since like it or not, it's a lot easier to just roll along and conserve resources properly when you have BAB and hit points and skills to go with your deeds/spells, but I'm pretty sure no one's started making any straight up conjuring deeds and mailman blasting still has a nice feel to it. I'd expect that with the easy range of any projectile weapon close range spells would basically become moot.

A suggestion for the deeds list: since you're basically writing a spell library, listing them on their own lines with short descriptions by level like they do with the short spell lists at the start of Spells chapters would be extremely helpful. Otherwise I find it impossible to figure out what to look at first and compare to. The full descriptions can be alphabetical, and I'd recommend leaving the short descriptions alphabetical as well (rather than say separating active and passive), otherwise you form a false organization that doesn't hold when they go looking through the full descriptions, and since everything takes the same known and AP costs they should all be in the same place just like with spell lists.

Ziegander
2013-10-11, 07:13 AM
A suggestion for the deeds list: since you're basically writing a spell library, listing them on their own lines with short descriptions by level like they do with the short spell lists at the start of Spells chapters would be extremely helpful. Otherwise I find it impossible to figure out what to look at first and compare to. The full descriptions can be alphabetical, and I'd recommend leaving the short descriptions alphabetical as well (rather than say separating active and passive), otherwise you form a false organization that doesn't hold when they go looking through the full descriptions, and since everything takes the same known and AP costs they should all be in the same place just like with spell lists.

Good point. I'll try to get to that right now, but it's definitely something I'll include when I open the new thread.

silphael
2013-10-13, 10:23 PM
After a first look at the basic deeds, i'm not getting why a large part of those are class bound. At higher level maybe, but denying the Fighter the ability to rage, for exemple, is not that nice.

Given how it works, the 2 first tiers of deeds could be available to both three classes. (just tossing the idea around here)

Not sure neither, but the fighter table looks empty. Bonus feats shouldn't be a class feature, even with easy feat swap, at least imo.

ben-zayb
2013-10-13, 10:48 PM
Agreed. An idea I have in mind would be: instead of the Deeds having explicit tier levels, have some of them be tiered depending on the class? (e.g. Plane Shift being a Cle 5 and Sor/Wiz 7 spell) This would also affect the costs, obviously.

I also agree on the fighter class features sorely lacking. If you're sticking to the "Fighter's trademark are their feats" theme, I'd suggest making some Fighter Feats that interact nicely with Deeds, like the reserve feats, metamagic feats, or the magic school "rider effect" feats. You may even have this class being able to shuffle his fighter feat choices every X period (day? hours? minutes?)

silphael
2013-10-13, 11:28 PM
Or just adding parts to deeds saying "if you have that feat, you can also", which is easier than create whole set of feats imo.
he fighter is already able to shuffle the feats, but having bonus feats isn't a class feature.

Ziegander
2013-10-14, 08:27 AM
After a first look at the basic deeds, i'm not getting why a large part of those are class bound. At higher level maybe, but denying the Fighter the ability to rage, for exemple, is not that nice.

Part of the point in the exercise is that different classes have unique lists of powers. Clerics, Druids, and Wizards all have their own spell lists, so too should the Fighter, Ranger, and Rogue. Some overlap is warranted, of course, but it should be limited. Likely you will not be the only person to disagree with my placement of Deeds in this Deed list or the other (or not the other, as the case may be).


Not sure neither, but the fighter table looks empty. Bonus feats shouldn't be a class feature, even with easy feat swap, at least imo.


I also agree on the fighter class features sorely lacking.

Guys, remember, the bog-standard PHB Fighter is Tier 4-5. I not only increased its hit points, save bonuses, and skill points, I gave it ultimate Weapon Aptitude all the time, and I let it easily swap out feats for new ones. And now it gets Mettle. I think that easily brings it solidly to Tier 4 status without the need for other features.

Realize that the Cleric and Wizard class tables are sorely lacking in class features and yet they are still Tier 1. Leaving the Fighter's table as empty as I could was a conscious design choice.


An idea I have in mind would be: instead of the Deeds having explicit tier levels, have some of them be tiered depending on the class? (e.g. Plane Shift being a Cle 5 and Sor/Wiz 7 spell) This would also affect the costs, obviously.

I may do something like that, yes, not a bad idea.


[...]I'd suggest making some Fighter Feats that interact nicely with Deeds, like the reserve feats, metamagic feats, or the magic school "rider effect" feats.

I may yet do something like this. I need to fully design the Deeds first.


Or just adding parts to deeds saying "if you have that feat, you can also", which is easier than create whole set of feats imo.

I probably won't do this.

Gnomes2169
2013-10-15, 01:31 PM
Impossible deeds should seem to be be, even to most caster classes, something that flat out seems to be impossible... for example, surviving a single attack no matter what without taking a scratch (like, say, a critical with a vorpal weapon or Vengeful Gaze of God), sealing away a character's supernatural or spell like abilities until they are restored to them through restoration/ wish/ miracle, convincing entire enemy squads to turn to your side in the thick of combat, permanently gaining a boost to your statistics (though the use of a passive deed), etc, etc. Basically, it should be the "NOPE" button for the mundane tier 1 classes. Pricey AP wise? Yes... but also worth it.

Also, you forgot a tier 1 caster class in your list... the psion. :smalltongue:

Edit: WELL LOOK AT THAT SECOND PAGE RIGHT THERE. I guess I'll just be writing out the deeds then...

Unbreakable body
Impossible deed
Cost: 12 AP
Classes: Fighter, Ranger
Action: Immediate
Target: Self

When the fighter or ranger would be reduced to or below 0 HP for any reason, instead roll a fortitude save (DC 10+1/8 the damage dealt (this is not damage rolled, but damage being dealt to the fighter/ ranger, maximum damage = maximum fighter/ ranger's health)). If he succeeds, negate all damage and secondary effects of the damage source.

Sealing strike
Impossible deed
Cost: 12 AP
Classes: All
Action: Standard
Target: Single attack
Duration: Permanent

As a standard action, the character may use this deed to penetrate all magical and supernatural abilities of the target for one attack. If this attack hits, the target must make a fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 character level+relevant attack stat) or have all supernatural and spell like abilities they possess sealed away. This includes any ability to actually cast spells. This condition will persist until the target receives healing in the form of Greater Restoration, Wish or Miracle. This condition persists even if the target is slain and revived or raised, though not if they are revived with True Resurrection.

Silver tongued devil
Impossible deed
Cost: 12 AP
Class: Rogue
Action: Full round
Target: 30x30 area
Duration: Permanent

Even in the midst of battle, the most skilled rogues may convince those who would cause them harm to turn their blade and a blind eye. Targeting all hostile creatures in a 30x30 area, the rogue may make a diplomacy check at a +20 bonus to improve their reaction to himself and his party. To use this deed, the rogue must speak a language of his targets, and his targets must have at least 5 intelligence. The results of this reaction shift last until the rogue or party acts in a way to either improve or harm an NPC's reaction, as per normal diplomacy rules. This deed can affect Outsiders with an opposing alignment (Good->Evil or Lawful->Chaotic) and undead, though only at a +5 bonus.

Body of the Gods (passive)
Impossible deed
Cost: 12 AP
Class: All
Action: Free
Duration: Dismissal

The character, through their experiences and their abilities, has figured out how to improve themselves in every possible way, from the strength of their arm to their quickness of wit and force of personality, this individual personifies the perfect renaissance man, standing leaps and bounds above all of his comrades. All of his attributes gain a +4 inherent bonus until this deed is dismissed. This bonus will stack with any relevant item bonuses.

bekeleven
2013-10-15, 02:07 PM
Also, you forgot a tier 1 caster class in your list... the psion. :smalltongue:

Psion is generally considered tier 2 for the same reasons as the Sorcerer. Although it's usually easier to loop with.

Gnomes2169
2013-10-15, 02:14 PM
I've always considered it to be the tier 1 of the psionic classes, and it's a bit easier to optimize than the sorcerer... but oh well.

Also, added examples of what I would consider to be "Impossible" level deeds to that last post. Yes they are powerful... but they are competing with level 9 spells, and I wanted to make them different from anything that you find at level 9, i.e., truly unique martial abilities, not martial versions of spells. Power scale might be a little off still... I'll leave that for professional review.

Ziegander
2013-10-15, 05:04 PM
Impossible deeds should seem to be be, even to most caster classes, something that flat out seems to be impossible

Actually, why don't I go ahead and just explain the guidelines I'm using?

GREAT deeds are examples of actions and abilities that you could expect a skilled, talented, or well-trained, but otherwise mundane, human(oid) adventurer to be capable of.

MASTERFUL deeds on the other hand are things that only a true master in his or her field could hope to accomplish. Still things that a mortal could do without magic, but exceptionally impressive feats that only the best are capable of.

HEROIC deeds are where things begin to defy the limits of what a mortal, non-magical human could do. Think Batman-level stealth and cognitive ability or Captain America style feats of strength and endurance. Even a bit beyond.

LEGENDARY deeds cannot be accomplished by your "normal" human being. They are things that are technically, physically, possible, but only by creatures with superhuman levels of mental/physical attributes, talents, and skill.

IMPOSSIBLE deeds are, quite literally, not possible to achieve by a mortal, non-magical human(oid). These effects break the laws of physics and are not limited by our normal perception of what can and can't be done.


for example, surviving a single attack no matter what without taking a scratch (like, say, a critical with a vorpal weapon or Vengeful Gaze of God), sealing away a character's supernatural or spell like abilities until they are restored to them through restoration/ wish/ miracle, convincing entire enemy squads to turn to your side in the thick of combat, permanently gaining a boost to your statistics (though the use of a passive deed), etc, etc. Basically, it should be the "NOPE" button for the mundane tier 1 classes. Pricey AP wise? Yes... but also worth it.

These are interesting.

As far as the actual write ups go, I like where you're going with them, the formatting is slightly off, but no big deal. Please though, if you, or anyone else would like to design Deeds for this project, post them HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308846), where I will be continuing to work on them more and more. I was beginning to worry that interest in the project had died off.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-10-15, 10:55 PM
This is probably the best approach to the problem I've seen. The higher-grade deeds should be able to break reality just like magic. At the same level a wizard can *plane shift*, you need the fighter to be able to slice an interplanar portal in the fabric of space with his sword.

Durazno
2013-10-16, 03:09 AM
I'm trying to think of a blunt-force alternative to the sword. I imagine it would involve driving an object through the fabric of reality - so like the head of your maul would punch through thin air and then you could drag it down to tear the gate open.

Heck, you might even be able to use the bodies of your enemies this way. Wouldn't it be fun to punch a demon back into the abyss?

bekeleven
2013-10-16, 03:26 AM
I'm trying to think of a blunt-force alternative to the sword.Here's a thought: Instead of specialist wizards, have deeds that require WF with a bludgeoning/piercing/slashing weapon. Make the feats do a little bit of work. Speaking of,

Feel free to flesh out the Fantastic Feat Fix For Fighters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16164699&postcount=78). I could format and fill out the framework if it's fancied.

Durazno
2013-10-16, 09:41 PM
Okay, here's a more detailed version of my notion. I'm still a little murky on mechanics, but if any part of this sounds workable, I could probably buckle down and come up with numbers. Basically, this would be a Deed for a few levels below when Wizards would get Planeshift.

First, you need a solid object that weighs at least 150 pounds and a wide open space, say at least forty yards. Taking your object in hand, you get a good running start, spin and hurl it as hard as you can. In midair it slams against the skin of the world, ripping through and leaving a dark hole just wide enough to walk through. If your chosen object was actually the body of an enemy, you have to make an opposed strength check at the start of the Deed and they take damage as though they had fallen, say, fifty feet for every ten feet of your running start.

Next, you make a "Knowledge: The Planes" check to see if you actually threw your object to the right place, with the DM consulting a table behind her screen. (I'm thinking I'd have to come up with a few hilarious mishaps for this.) All your character sees, though, is a hole in the air, with the number you rolled representing how confident you feel about it. Dare you to go through? Whether or not you do, the hole stays open for an hour or so, so I hope your rock didn't hit Asmodeus in the face or anything like that.

A spellcaster can spend a few hours and a few thousand gp to make a Navigator Stone. Navigator Stones offer a +5 bonus to the knowledge check when you throw them and, more importantly, send a signal back to their creator indicating whether they've landed on the plane you set them to. This means that a Fighter and a Wizard working together can travel the planes almost reliably before either could individually. So far, nobody's thrown a Navigator Stone into the 50th layer of the Abyss, so we can count ourselves lucky.

Artificers are working on mechanical drives that use this principle and could be used to power spelljammers. I imagine the first few wouldn't be very reliable, though.

Morph Bark
2013-10-17, 08:06 AM
Say Ziegander, when you feel you're done with the class, could you drop me a line in the Homebrew Tier Compendium? I'd love to Tier the Tier 1 Mundanes that are being worked on currently, and I'd prefer to do so when the creators feel they're actually done, to Tier them at their full extent. :smallsmile:

toapat
2013-10-17, 07:41 PM
Sugestion for a Deed

Unstoppable Determination
Impossible deed

Effect: As long as you are performing this deed by having action points invested in it, you may take a full round worth of actions while below 1 hp. You do not die for reaching -10 hp, nor do you bleed for 1 point of hp whenever you take an action while at negative hp.

While below -10 HP, once per round, you must make a DC 10 fortitude save or you stop maintaining this deed. For every 10 points of HP below -10, the save DC increases by +1. You do not automatically fail this save by rolling a 1. If you fail the save, you stop maintaining this deed and die.

Ziegander
2013-10-17, 07:58 PM
Sugestion for a Deed

Unstoppable Determination
Impossible deed

Effect: As long as you are performing this deed by having action points invested in it, you may take a full round worth of actions while below 1 hp. You do not die for reaching -10 hp, nor do you bleed for 1 point of hp whenever you take an action while at negative hp.

While below -10 HP, once per round, you must make a DC 10 fortitude save or you stop maintaining this deed. For every 10 points of HP below -10, the save DC increases by +1. You do not automatically fail this save by rolling a 1. If you fail the save, you stop maintaining this deed and die.

That's a good one.