Changing my race?

[faircoin]

In-game, in-character, I mean.

For roleplay reasons, my wizard wants to be of another race (possibly with a positive LA) than human.

Now, PaO works, but it doesn't grant Ex, Su, or Sp qualities of races. I'm looking to fully become said race.

Druidic reincarnation doesn't work either, since the race I want to be is probably not on that list. Plus I definitely don't want to lose a level.

[Naomi Li]

Given that wish/miracle can restore your character's kind to what they originally had (at least in Pathfinder; don't quite recall if 3.5 allows it), presumably it could be used to change to a different form.

Creating a new spell/magic item could do it, too.

[limejuicepowder]

If there a reason your DM is insisting there's some RAW way to do this? If it's in-character, it sounds like a perfect opportunity to use DM fiat; make up some kind of quest/ritual/magical mishap, and you're good to go.

Even better, since you're a wizard, research a spell that does what you want. Since it's a powerful effect, as part of the magic it only can be used once (or something like that).

[Keneth]

Yep, this is a perfect opportunity for some DM fiat.

[Karnith]

Savage Species contains two major rituals (the Ritual of Unlearning and the Ritual of Vitality) that allow a character to trade character levels or XP to become another kind of creature. It also outlines how using the Wish spell to change into a different kind of creature might work.

[Rabidmuskrat]

There should be no way for you to gain LA without losing levels to compensate, otherwise not only will you completely marginalize the rest of your party, you will break your own game by delaying your next levelup by several years.

Ask level 8 characters who suddenly become vampires.

[faircoin]

There should be no way for you to gain LA without losing levels to compensate, otherwise not only will you completely marginalize the rest of your party, you will break your own game by delaying your next levelup by several years.

Ask level 8 characters who suddenly become vampires.

I'm 5 ECL behind my party members because I spend almost every available opportunity crafting for them. I don't mind, since I'm playing a batman wizard and everyone else is kind of, well, roleplaying without rollplaying.


If there a reason your DM is insisting there's some RAW way to do this? If it's in-character, it sounds like a perfect opportunity to use DM fiat; make up some kind of quest/ritual/magical mishap, and you're good to go.

My DM's kind of a "RAW is king" kind of guy. He doesn't mind DM fiat once in a while, but it's best I find a published method.


Savage Species contains two major rituals (the Ritual of Unlearning and the Ritual of Vitality) that allow a character to trade character levels or XP to become another kind of creature. It also outlines how using the Wish spell to change into a different kind of creature might work.

This seems best.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

[Blackjackg]

Player's Handbook II has rebuilding quests, which allow for changes in race.

+1 to this. Pages 198-199 cover the technical aspects of changing your race, and pages 200-206 offer fully-fleshed settings and quests to accomplish it.

[Clistenes]

I think a Wish spell should be enough.

Let's say you have two characters that have 45000 xp and have just reached level 10, and one of them uses a Ring of Three Wishes to change race and gain a LA +2

Now one of them has ECL 10 and the other has ECL 12, but both have 45000 xp and both need to gain 33000 xp to reach ECL 13. However, it takes only 10000 xp for the weaker character to reach ECL 11 and 21000 xp to reach the ECL of the strongest.

And all that time the ECL 12 (LA +2) character is stuck at the same level, and gets a couple class level behind.

What I mean is, mechanically allowing a character to gain LA +1 or LA +2 isn't a big deal, it balances itself.

The only reason to forbid it would be for fluff reasons. If a mere Wish can allow you to change race or gain a template, some interesting artifacts or rituals that do the same become irrelevant (for example, the Lesser Godtrap that allows you to gain an half-outsider template, or the Greenbound Harp that allows you to gain the Woodling template, or the demonic pact that allows you to become a Lemorian, or the divine pact that allows you to become dragonborn).

[WebTiefling]

I'm 5 ECL behind my party members because I spend almost every available opportunity crafting for them. I don't mind, since I'm playing a batman wizard and everyone else is kind of, well, roleplaying without rollplaying.

That must be an absolutely insane amount of crafting. As you drop behind them in levels, you should be getting a LOT more XP than they are which should counteract a lot of the crafting XP costs.

Is your DM maybe handing out flat XP rewards - the same to all party members?

[faircoin]

Is your DM maybe handing out flat XP rewards - the same to all party members?

That's not entirely it. At the beginning of the campaign, I convinced my DM to allow LA buyoff, which all of my party members took except me, cause I wanted to play a vanilla human batman wizard. Now they have +2 LA races entirely bought off, and are 3 class levels above me. So I was wrong when I said 5 ECL above me: I should've said 3 ECL. But, w/e.

This, flat XP rewards, and an insane amount of wondrous item crafting got me below the party average.

In any case, I like PHII rebuilding. I will consider it.

[PraxisVetli]

If there a reason your DM is insisting there's some RAW way to do this? If it's in-character, it sounds like a perfect opportunity to use DM fiat; make up some kind of quest/ritual/magical mishap, and you're good to go.

Even better, since you're a wizard, research a spell that does what you want. Since it's a powerful effect, as part of the magic it only can be used once (or something like that).

Somewhere in the books is the Necrotic Cradle, a whoopdyjam where the Positive and Negative energy planes collide (which, if you look how they're arranged, is totally impossible, they're "parallel").
I usually have my players who wanna do something like this auto fail some kind of save (prismatic sphere?) and get launched into it.
edit: swordsage'd by WhatThePhysics, upon checking books, the Cradle IS a rebuild quest.

[John Longarrow]

Faircoin,

You could also just go look for a deck of many things...

If not, rebuild quest will probably be your best chance. Plus I'd get the rest of your party to really, really, really help you out since you are way behind them for XPs due to your making stuff for them.

I'd also talk to your DM. If you get flat XPs the same as the rest of the party, he'd better double check how you normally get XPs. You should be getting a lot more per encounter than the rest.

[Grim Reader]

A one-level dip into Shaper of Form (Dragon Compendium pg. 85) allows you to change your race if you select the Renaissance feature of Modify Self. Its a fairly sweet dip anyway, with good fort and will saves, casting advancement to any casting class and stuff.

Need good crafting skills and two feats to qualify though.

[Rabidmuskrat]

The ritual where you spend xp to change your race will be especially interesting for you. Reason being that while you spend xp and lose levels from the top, it costs xp from the bottom. Meaning, if you gain +5 ECL, it costs you xp as if those 5 are the first levels you gained (4000+3000+2000+1000), but you take that xp off from your total amount of xp and essentially lose levels off the top. This means that it is quite easy to gain 7 ECL, but spend only 3 levels to get it (transforming into an Aranea at level 9, my personal example).

Just be aware, this is generally NOT WORTH IT, as those ECL gains are 'fake'. Monster LAs are generally on the high side and racial hit die are nothing but 'dead levels' without class features. Class levels also synergise far better with themselves or each other than they do with most monster races. The only reason I resorted to it myself was that I had a bunch of fighter levels I wanted to get rid of (basically also dead levels).