spells reload at sundown...

[dehro]

so.. Kruk, is a Cleric of the Traveler and, as such, gets his spells at sundown.
spells are given after prayer.
during daytime we mostly have stuff to do.
so Kruk is most likely to pray at night.
does that mean he's got to pray with a day in advance?
I mean.. say he prays at midnight.. he'll still have to wait for sundown next day to get his spells, right? If so, what happens to the spells from the prayer session of the night before that he has yet to use by the time he's praying for the next ones?? doesn't that mean he's never going to have spells available?

my DM has shoved this conundrum under the carpet and we're sort of ignoring the sticking point by letting Kruk get his spells in a IOU fashion.. he gets his spells at dusk despite this being before when he actually prays to get them... so it's not an actual gaming problem. Entering nightime and getting a spell reload has actually saved his craggy dwarven behind a few times.

but how do the rules solve this conundrum?

[Curmudgeon]

A Cleric needs to do their daily prayer at the right time of day, or as soon as time permits. The rule is on page 179 of Player's Handbook:
If some event prevents a character from praying at the proper time, he must do so as soon as possible. If the character does not stop to pray for spells at the first opportunity, he must wait until the next day to prepare spells. Spells reload only when the hour of prayer has been completed.

[dehro]

I guess I was being too literal in my interpretation

[Mnemnosyne]

The real problem here is actually the eight hour rule. Any spell slots cast in the eight hours previous to spell preparation cannot be refilled. Which means that if you're playing by the rules, a cleric that prays for spells at midnight must stop casting spells at 4 pm, or any slots he uses after that time can't be refilled until the next day.

The rules, therefore, strongly favor clerics that have an active day starting immediately after they pray, rather than one based on the sun cycle. Which then means that clerics whose gods allow them to pray at dawn are much more able to have normal daily interactions than clerics who pray at dusk or midnight or most any other time.

[dehro]

in other words I'm screwed, lol
or I would be, if my DM were a stickler for the rules

[JusticeZero]

I'd just follow this:
A Cleric gets their spells following an hour of prayer at the appropriate time, if and only if they were able to get seven hours of rest in the previous day.

[nedz]

Obviously you are meant to travel at night: The Traveller is a nocturnal god.

[Curmudgeon]

I'd just follow this:
A Cleric gets their spells following an hour of prayer at the appropriate time, if and only if they were able to get seven hours of rest in the previous day.
That's an odd house rule. Arcane casters need to rest to prepare their spells; divine casters do not. Why would you want to gimp divine casters with the restrictions associated with a completely different type of magic?

[lsfreak]

Whelp...

However, a divine spellcaster does not require a period of rest to prepare spells.
Buuuut...

As with arcane spells, at the time of preparation any spells cast within the previous 8 hours count against the number of spells that can be prepared.
By RAW, you're pretty screwed. That was extremely poorly thought out on WotC's part. I'd just ignore the second line. I mean, after you prepare spells they're locked in for a cleric anyways, it's not like you can cheese it by praying multiple times and getting three times your normal spells for the day.

Also note than in the SRD/PHB, prayer and receiving spells are done simultaneously. If your god hands out spells as sundown, that's when you should be praying (or as soon after as possible) I'd think. But unless I'm mistaken, the Core gods aren't limited to handing out spells at certain times of day. Dunno about any setting gods, I've never used them.

[Chronos]

It does say that sunrise is typical for good gods, and sunset is typical for evil. And due to the D&D rules being written by humans, good creatures tend to be diurnal, and evil creatures tend to be nocturnal. So in practice, it tends not to be a problem.

I've never heard of "the Traveler", unless that's just a reference to Fharlanghn. Is he evil? Or associated in some way with darkness? Is there anything that says his clerics (regardless of their alignment) tend to be nocturnal?

[Mnemnosyne]

I mean, after you prepare spells they're locked in for a cleric anyways, it's not like you can cheese it by praying multiple times and getting three times your normal spells for the day.

Actually, you sort of can...if you have access to repeatable long range teleportation and your campaign takes place on a typical planet where sunrise and sunset is not simultaneous for the entire world. The eight hour rule is the big limiter here, but even with it, most clerics could get double the usual number of spells, at least.

If your god grants spells at sunrise, for instance, you can do this. When your party is getting ready for bed, teleport to a place where it is sunrise. Pray for spells. Memorize all day buffs and things you can persist. Cast them all immediately. Settle in for a good nights sleep with your party, or watch, or whatever you do. Eight hours later at sunrise, pray for spells again. You've still got 16 hours left on your 24 hour buffs, but now you have full spell slots.

Now, praying for your all day buffs can only use slots that haven't been used in the previous eight hours, but you're likely to have at least some of those, so even if you don't get double the usual number of spells, you still get a few extra slots per day to buff with. At the cost of casting greater teleport twice each night, probably from an item.

Edit: It should be noted there's a really big downside to divine spell memorization being tied to a time of day, especially when that time of day is connected to an event specifically related to a sun. The downside being that there are places an adventurer could be expected to be in that have no sun and no day/night cycles. By RAW, a cleric simply cannot refresh their spells if they happen to be on, say, the elemental plane of air. Because there's no sun, no day/night cycle, and therefore the time to pray never comes up. There are many planes on which there is no day/night cycle, and by RAW, there's no given option I know of for clerics to refresh their spells on any of them, since it's all tied to a specific time of day.

[Curmudgeon]

I've never heard of "the Traveler", unless that's just a reference to Fharlanghn.
Wrong pantheon. The Traveler is an Eberron deity, along with the Mockery, the Shadow, the Path of Light, the Keeper, the Blood of Vol, the Devourer, and the Fury.

[TuggyNE]

Edit: It should be noted there's a really big downside to divine spell memorization being tied to a time of day, especially when that time of day is connected to an event specifically related to a sun. The downside being that there are places an adventurer could be expected to be in that have no sun and no day/night cycles. By RAW, a cleric simply cannot refresh their spells if they happen to be on, say, the elemental plane of air. Because there's no sun, no day/night cycle, and therefore the time to pray never comes up. There are many planes on which there is no day/night cycle, and by RAW, there's no given option I know of for clerics to refresh their spells on any of them, since it's all tied to a specific time of day.

Timekeeping across multiple frames of reference is hard! Let's go shopping.


Wrong pantheon. The Traveler is an Eberron deity, along with the Mockery, the Shadow, the Path of Light, the Keeper, the Blood of Vol, the Devourer, and the Fury.

I thought it was the Dark Six, not the Dark Eight. :smallconfused: (Vol and Path of Light, while generally maleficient, aren't really related to the others in anything I've ever read.)

[Curmudgeon]

I thought it was the Dark Six, not the Dark Eight. :smallconfused: (Vol and Path of Light, while generally maleficient, aren't really related to the others in anything I've ever read.)
The relation is that they're all Eberron deities prefixed with "the ". Of course, Eberron isn't alone in that respect; there are also the Great Mother, the Glutton, the Patient One, and the Xammux.

[dehro]

It does say that sunrise is typical for good gods, and sunset is typical for evil. And due to the D&D rules being written by humans, good creatures tend to be diurnal, and evil creatures tend to be nocturnal. So in practice, it tends not to be a problem.

I've never heard of "the Traveler", unless that's just a reference to Fharlanghn. Is he evil? Or associated in some way with darkness? Is there anything that says his clerics (regardless of their alignment) tend to be nocturnal?

the Traveler is a pure neutral god (Kruk is NG) from the setting Kingdoms of Kalamar...which is..thirdpartyish.. I believe it's a third party that published with the blessing and license of WotC.
and yes, he is equated to Fharlanghn. his clerics can bend either way, as long as they're at least part neutral.
long range teleportation is frowned upon by the god, who is big on pilgrimages and walking your socks off.

[TuggyNE]

The relation is that they're all Eberron deities prefixed with "the ". Of course, Eberron isn't alone in that respect; there are also the Great Mother, the Glutton, the Patient One, and the Xammux.

Ah. Your use of pantheon threw me off.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Ehh, the Blood of Vol and the Path of Light are more philosophies than deities, really.

[dehro]

and yes, he is equated to Fharlanghn. his clerics can bend either way, as long as they're at least part neutral.

that came out wrong :smallbiggrin: Kruk is a dwarf.. he doesn't bend.

[Curmudgeon]

the Traveler is a pure neutral god (Kruk is NG) from the setting Kingdoms of Kalamar...which is..thirdpartyish..
In that case, you're talking 3.0 rules rather than 3.5. Kingdoms of Kalamar was licensed as an official setting for D&D 3.0, but wasn't updated for 3.5 and that license expired back in 2007.

[dehro]

In that case, you're talking 3.0 rules rather than 3.5. Kingdoms of Kalamar was licensed as an official setting for D&D 3.0, but wasn't updated for 3.5 and that license expired back in 2007.

yah, but we're playing with 3.5 rules, we use it mostly as source for setting... so I guess the question is mostly academical.
the god is however played, flavourwise pretty much as in the book, so..neutral.