Overcoming Elemental Immunities.

[Asheram]

It's all in the title. I've had some thought about this and I'm wondering if it's possible to overcome elemental immunities, eg Dealing fire damage to a Devil?

So, ladies and gents. Is this possible?

I'm looking for just about any official source.

[Lord Haart]

It is. Five letters.

[Karnith]

The Searing Spell metamagic feat (from It's Hot Outside Sandstorm) can modify [Fire] spells so that they ignore a creature's resistance to fire, and deal half damage to creatures with immunity to fire.

[Asheram]

It is. Five letters.

Some examples and sources would be nice.

[Zombulian]

It is. Five letters.

This guy.
Pyrokineticists have an ability called Heat Death that I always found pretty silly. It's a death effect where you cause the subject's body to heat up until they explode. It works on any living corporeal creature. Yknow what's a living corporeal creature? A fire elemental.

[Fax Celestis]

This guy.
Pyrokineticists have an ability called Heat Death that I always found pretty silly. It's a death effect where you cause the subject's body to heat up until they explode. It works on any living corporeal creature. Yknow what's a living corporeal creature? A fire elemental.

Actually, it's not a [Death] effect either.

[Lanson]

Actually, it's not a [Death] effect either.

Two things:
1. Aren't all instantaneous death effects [Death] effects? Or am I mistaken?

2. I love your new icon :smallsmile: Do you do them yourself? (Sorry for sidetrack)

[Fax Celestis]

Two things:
1. Aren't all instantaneous death effects [Death] effects? Or am I mistaken? Nope. It has to specifically say, "This ability is a [Death] effect" or similar.


2. I love your new icon :smallsmile: Do you do them yourself? (Sorry for sidetrack)
It's an older model, sir, but it still checks out older avatar I brought back. I'm actually looking for a new Ililani right now (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16158257&postcount=1008).

[Asheram]

So, the Pyrokineticist.
and Searing Spell for partial.

Is there anything else?

[Fax Celestis]

Not really. Immunity breaking is a scarce thing.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Piercing Cold does the same thing as Searing Spell, only for [Cold] spells. It's found in Frostburn.

[Urpriest]

Trait Removal should work...but it also probably shouldn't exist, soo.....

[ZamielVanWeber]

Piercing Cold does the same thing as Searing Spell, only for [Cold] spells. It's found in Frostburn.

And creatures with the Cold subtype are still immune to the spell. It is overall weaker.

[Chronos]

There's also a metamagic feat Consecrate Spell, from Book of Exalted Deeds, which converts half of a spell's damage into pure divine power, similar to Flame Strike. It works on any element you want, but you have to be good.

[Marlowe]

The Energy Substitution feat lets you change your elemental damage into...some other kind of elemental damage. Only you have to choose what type of energy you're using as the substitute when you take the feat, so if the enemy's immune to both you're still in trouble.

[Red Rubber Band]

The Energy Substitution feat lets you change your elemental damage into...some other kind of elemental damage. Only you have to choose what type of energy you're using as the substitute when you take the feat, so if the enemy's immune to both you're still in trouble.

There's two version of Energy Sub IIRC. One includes Sonic as a possible sub.

Though that might just be for deities and such... can't remember where I read it :smallconfused:

[eviljav]

Anything similar to "searing spell" and "piercing cold", but for electricity?

[gooddragon1]

Anything similar to "searing spell" and "piercing cold", but for electricity?

Energy Substitution from electricity to fire then Searing Spell.

Searing Spell is better than Piercing Cold:


A searing spell is so hot that it ignores the resistance to fire of creatures affected by the spell, and affected creatures with immunity to fire still take half damage. This feat can be applied only to spells with the fire descriptor. Creatures with the cold subtype take double damage from a searing spell. Creatures affected by a searing spell are still entitled to whatever saving throw the spell normally allows. A searing spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.


You can only apply this metamagic feat to spells with the cold descriptor. Piercing cold spells are so horribly cold that they are capable of damaging creatures normally unharmed by or resistant to cold. Piercing cold spells completely ignore any resistance to cold a creature possesses, bypassing this resistance and dealing damage to the target as if it did not possess any resistance to cold at all. They are still entitled to whatever other defenses the attack allows (such as saving throws and spell resistance).

Creatures normally immune to cold can be damaged by piercing cold spells as well. Piercing cold spells deal half damage to these creatures (or one-quarter on a successful saving throw). For example, Mialee casts a piercing cold cone of cold at a night hag, a creature normally immune to cold. She makes her level check to penetrate the night hag's spell resistance, but the night hag makes her Reflex save against the spell. Mialee rolls the dice, and her cone of cold deals 42 points of cold damage; since the night hag made her save, the damage is halved to 21 points. This damage is then halved again (since the night hag is normally immune to cold), and 10 points of cold damage are actually dealt to the night hag, who is both shocked and enraged at this unexpected turn of events.

Creatures with the cold subtype can tell that a piercing cold spell is colder than normal, but they remain undamaged by the attack.

Creatures with the fire subtype who are damaged by a piercing cold spell take double normal damage instead of the usual +50%.

A piercing cold spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.

[ArcturusV]

Well, if you count stuff like Consecrate Spell, there's also Vile Spell and Corrupt Spell to turn them into Unholy damage.

As well probably more niche things like the Stormcaster PrC ability which gives you extra Sonic Damage and a Stun when you use Electric spells (Rather than changing out damage dice as Corrupt/Consecrate/Energy Substitution) would. So even if you threw a lightning bolt at a demon at least you'd get SOMETHING out of it... not much. 3 damage and a stun. But hey, at least your Lightning Elemental sorcerer type wouldn't be rendered useless by an encounter against Demons, but chain stunlock someone.

[Karnith]

Well, if you count stuff like Consecrate Spell, there's also Vile Spell and Corrupt Spell to turn them into Unholy damage.
Actually, Violate Spell would only turn half of the energy damage into Vile energy damage, so it wouldn't get past immunity to that energy type.

[ArcturusV]

Yep, forgot that was how that particular one worked. Was tagging it with the Corrupt Metamagic effect in my mind for some reason.

Not that they are GOOD options. It's one of the few Metamagics I know that only apply to a single spell you know. Far as I remember you can't just pick the feat and apply it to ANY spell, nope, it only applies to one spell that you choose when you take the feat. And the Corrupt version still takes a higher spell slot. But I suppose they are options if you're running something like the Sorcerer who just wants to chuck fireballs all day and not use anything else.

[Fax Celestis]

Don't really know why people are saying the cold version is worse than the fire version, considering the cold version includes text for ignoring resistance and immunity, while fire just breaks immunity.

[Karnith]

Don't really know why people are saying the cold version is worse than the fire version, considering the cold version includes text for ignoring resistance and immunity, while fire just breaks immunity.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you wrote, but Searing spells ignore resistance to fire much the same as Piercing Cold spells ignore resistance to cold, in addition to dealing half damage to creatures that are normally immune.

Piercing Cold is just wordier, and randomly includes the clause about Cold subtype creatures being immune.

[Fax Celestis]

Oh , no, you're right, it does. I just fail at reading apparently.

[Alabenson]

There's two version of Energy Sub IIRC. One includes Sonic as a possible sub.

Though that might just be for deities and such... can't remember where I read it :smallconfused:

The version that included sonic was in 3.0; they removed the possibility of using sonic during the update to 3.5

[Chronos]

In 3.5 there's also Elven Spell Lore, which can convert damage to any type at all, but which also applies to only one spell chosen when you take the feat.

[Nettlekid]

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned. The Sanctified One of Kord can, at level 1, choose from a list of abilities which includes Holy Fire, the ability to change all Fire damage you deal into pure Good-aligned divine damage, which I don't believe any creature has resistance to. You can also cast regular fire spells, just choose which version you use at the time of casting. I suppose that technically it isn't Fire damage anymore, but it would still be a [Fire] spell if you want that for any purpose. You'd also have to sacrifice a caster level, but it's a pretty good immunity-breaker.

[gooddragon1]

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned. The Sanctified One of Kord can, at level 1, choose from a list of abilities which includes Holy Fire, the ability to change all Fire damage you deal into pure Good-aligned divine damage, which I don't believe any creature has resistance to. You can also cast regular fire spells, just choose which version you use at the time of casting. I suppose that technically it isn't Fire damage anymore, but it would still be a [Fire] spell if you want that for any purpose. You'd also have to sacrifice a caster level, but it's a pretty good immunity-breaker.

While not the best for optimization purposes probably, that ability is just beautiful. It almost makes me want to cry.

My only regret is that it doesn't allow you to change any fire damage you would deal into that kind of damage. Because if it did I'd use it with the burning blade maneuver. And now I'm daydreaming about if it could be used somehow with vitriolic blast eldritch essence for an irresistible touch attack combo with eldritch glaive. Oh how great that could be.

[Nettlekid]

While not the best for optimization purposes probably, that ability is just beautiful. It almost makes me want to cry.

My only regret is that it doesn't allow you to change any fire damage you would deal into that kind of damage. Because if it did I'd use it with the burning blade maneuver. And now I'm daydreaming about if it could be used somehow with vitriolic blast eldritch essence for an irresistible touch attack combo with eldritch glaive. Oh how great that could be.

Yeah, it would be pretty amazing for a Swordsage. A ninja-esque follower of Kord, lighting up foes with divine fire. "Your fire cannot harm me," sneers the red dragon. "My heart burns hotter than any fire," asserts the Swordsage, as their Burning Brand stabs into the dragon's chest. Eee~

It might not be absolutely the best for optimization, but it's not really bad either. For one, this is a caster that's already decided to focus on fire instead of say, sonic or force damage. They might be a Conjuration specialist using Orb of Fire, but they could even be an Evocation specialist. Full-blown optimization isn't the chief concern. Losing a caster level with pretty much no other prereqs might, for some builds, be better than spending feats on feats like Searing Spell which would be less effective in some situations.

[gooddragon1]

Yeah, it would be pretty amazing for a Swordsage. A ninja-esque follower of Kord, lighting up foes with divine fire. "Your fire cannot harm me," sneers the red dragon. "My heart burns hotter than any fire," asserts the Swordsage, as their Burning Brand stabs into the dragon's chest. Eee~

It might not be absolutely the best for optimization, but it's not really bad either. For one, this is a caster that's already decided to focus on fire instead of say, sonic or force damage. They might be a Conjuration specialist using Orb of Fire, but they could even be an Evocation specialist. Full-blown optimization isn't the chief concern. Losing a caster level with pretty much no other prereqs might, for some builds, be better than spending feats on feats like Searing Spell which would be less effective in some situations.

Right now I'm thinking Ice Axe substituted to fire with this ability and empower and maximize tacked on.