Shadowrun: Necromancy

[LibraryOgre]

I'm not talking about making zombies, but, rather, communicating with the dead. Talking with the corpse in front of you, not necessarily the honored dead or anything like that. Would you call it a spell? An Initiate power?

[comicshorse]

It seems to me there is an inherent problem with this and that's that in a world where information is power, money and life-or-death all rolled into one this is going to be a world changing ability. I'd imagine that ths is why, like Teleportation, this has never been part of the Shadowrun universe.
That said I'd say there are two ways this could be made usable. If the ability only grants the ability to speak to the dead and not command information for them, this downpowers it considerably though still offers possibilities for blackmailing the spirit of the Ares Vice-president by threatening his still living (and now no longer a high security priority)family
The other would be to make the talent incredibly rare ( which would mean it would probably have to be a Initiate power as a spell could be taught anyone). Then you'd have Necromancers as prizes for everybody but ones constantly watched and in danger of being grabbed or eliminated by the opposition (Kinda similiair to E-Branch and their russian counter-parts in Brian Lumley's 'Necroscope' novels)

[sleepyphoenixx]

The closest official thing is the Psychometry metamagic from Street Magic.

Speaking with the spirits of the dead is not really within the scope of shadowrun magic. Some traditions claim to summon the spirits of the dead (Street Magic) but it's generally assumed that they are simply shaped by the magicians worldview and are not really ghosts. It's not even established fact that any kind of afterlife exists in the SR universe.

If you want it despite the host of possible problems you could create a Speak with Dead spell based on the Mind Probe spell without really having to change anything except adding "works on corpses".

[The Glyphstone]

Or fluff it as some form of biomancy that extracts memories/knowledge from a relatively fresh corpse's intact brain matter (or images from their eyes, etc.).

[WinWin]

Sounds like something an inhabitation or possibly a possession tradition spirit could achieve.

You would not strictly be conversing with the spirit of the deceased, rather a spirit that is impersonating the deceased. Depending on the power of the spirit, or the strength of the summoning, they may even believe they are the deceased, as opposed to servicing the summoners expectations.

The belief system of the summoning mage would play into how the spirit would be regarded.

Probably best handled as an initiate ability. The strength of the summoning ritual determines the detail of the knowledge available to the spirit.

Legal repercussions would probably merit some thought. Some states may rule spirit testimony as heresay, or unreliable and simply reflecting the opinions of the summoner. Others may see the practicality in the use of necromancy as an investigative tool.

[DigoDragon]

though still offers possibilities for blackmailing the spirit of the Ares Vice-president by threatening his still living (and now no longer a high security priority)family

Possibly, but what if the effect is like D&D's Speak with Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) spell? In that case, you're only talking to the body itself and not the former spirit/soul of the deceased. Thereby it can't be blackmailed because it has no emotion or will of it's own. It's just a talking Wikipedia of sorts with the imprinted knowledge of it's former life.



Or fluff it as some form of biomancy that extracts memories/knowledge from a relatively fresh corpse's intact brain matter (or images from their eyes, etc.).

I'm reminded of the Will Smith movie Wild Wild West where the inventor Gordon flashed light through a decapitated man's head to get an image of the last thing he saw before dying.

[comicshorse]

[QUOTE=DigoDragon;16183710]Possibly, but what if the effect is like D&D's Speak with Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) spell? In that case, you're only talking to the body itself and not the former spirit/soul of the deceased. Thereby it can't be blackmailed because it has no emotion or will of it's own. It's just a talking Wikipedia of sorts with the imprinted knowledge of it's former life.
/QUOTE]

In that case there's no need to blackmail him anyway as his corpse will have no loyalty to his former corporation. Though if you keep the idea from 'Speak with dead' the idea that the answers are brief and cryptic it becomes less of a world changing ability

[Slipperychicken]

One of the things I liked reading through the 5e book is that Shadowrun maintains the finality of death (as opposed to D&D's revolving-door afterlife which cheapens death). If you want to get information out of someone, you need to keep him alive long enough for him to tell you. Otherwise, what's the point of swallowing poison pills or keeping poison teeth?


Also, shouldn't it be enough to simply hack his camera-lenses (and other imaging devices) to get images of the last things he saw?

[LibraryOgre]

One of the things I liked reading through the 5e book is that Shadowrun maintains the finality of death (as opposed to D&D's revolving-door afterlife which cheapens death). If you want to get information out of someone, you need to keep him alive long enough for him to tell you. Otherwise, what's the point of swallowing poison pills or keeping poison teeth?


Also, shouldn't it be enough to simply hack his camera-lenses (and other imaging devices) to get images of the last things he saw?

Well, that assumes cybereyes have memory. Assuming they don't keep any data by default, then you can only hack his eyes if he's been recording.

[CombatOwl]

I'm not talking about making zombies, but, rather, communicating with the dead. Talking with the corpse in front of you, not necessarily the honored dead or anything like that. Would you call it a spell? An Initiate power?

Never, never, never. Half the runs would boil down to going and killing someone and questioning their corpse. Nonlethal takedowns and interrogation would become utterly pointless in the majority of runs where they're needed currently.

The last thing Shadowrun needs is another spell giving magicians and shaman even more ways of finding out information that kills a plot's climax. Isn't it enough to have an entire school of magic devoted to finding stuff out, being able to go astral, turn invisible, summon spirits to go act as private investigators...


Well, that assumes cybereyes have memory. Assuming they don't keep any data by default, then you can only hack his eyes if he's been recording.

They have a built-in camera in 5th edition and device memory is never really explicitly stated anymore (other than to state that even simple devices can store amounts of data that would be incomprehensibly large to someone in the early 21st century). If I were the GM, I'd be willing to acknowledge that the cybereyes probably do keep a buffer of what's happened over the last few days.

[comicshorse]

They have a built-in camera in 5th edition and device memory is never really explicitly stated anymore (other than to state that even simple devices can store amounts of data that would be incomprehensibly large to someone in the early 21st century). If I were the GM, I'd be willing to acknowledge that the cybereyes probably do keep a buffer of what's happened over the last few days.

While I agree given Shadowrun tech eyes could buffer the images of the last few days I don't see any reason why they would do so

[Slipperychicken]

While I agree given Shadowrun tech eyes could buffer the images of the last few days I don't see any reason why they would do so

Perhaps the NSA's ideological descendants (i.e. spy agencies) pressured programmers/manufacturers to build backdoors into every device's operating system?


EDIT: Even a 40 nuyen RFID tag can keep 24 hours of sensor data, which can include visual/audio recordings, and that's a tiny, tiny device. So I imagine that cyereyes, commlinks, or even helmet-mounted cameras could hold infinitely more than that.

[The Glyphstone]

While I agree given Shadowrun tech eyes could buffer the images of the last few days I don't see any reason why they would do so

If the plot/story benefits from automatic storage (or if it makes the Shadowrunner's lives harder), then of course the eyes would do it.:smallsmile:

[LibraryOgre]

Actually, I can see eyes coming with that by default, and a lot of people (especially in the Shadows) switching it off... or selling recordings for trid.

[comicshorse]

Perhaps the NSA's ideological descendants (i.e. spy agencies) pressured programmers/manufacturers to build backdoors into every device's operating system?


Now there's a thought to give every Shadowrunner nightmares

[CombatOwl]

While I agree given Shadowrun tech eyes could buffer the images of the last few days I don't see any reason why they would do so

To make it easier to post funny videos of that thing that happened to Persona 2.0? To make indexing memories easier? Because the corporations that make the cybereyes would like to have the opportunity to browse through what people are seeing...

[Slipperychicken]

Now there's a thought to give every Shadowrunner nightmares

It can never really be a dystopian future unless someone's watching (or at least trying to watch) your every move.

[TheOOB]

IMO, this wouldn't be handled with sorcery, sorcery handles real effects and can't interact directly with spirits like that. Some people in SR claim to be able to conjure up the spirits of the dead, but considering how little is made of that and what we know of the metaplanes, that is unlikely to be true.

A metaplaner quest might allow you to speak to their spirit, and I could see an adept power that would let you see the last thing a corpse saw.

In general though, manipulating the dead is not the kind of thing sane awakened do in the sixth world, and I for one would treat anyone who could talk to the dead the same way I'd treat someone who has insect like features.

That is with a few bullets to the head.