Buying a demi plane?

[Invader]

Would it be possible to just pay someone to cast Genesis for me and key it's control to me? I've read the spell and I can't seem to find anything that would prevent it unless I'm drastically missing something. Assuming I'm allowed would the cost be 25,810gp?

[Emperor Tippy]

Would it be possible to just pay someone to cast Genesis for me and key it's control to me? I've read the spell and I can't seem to find anything that would prevent it unless I'm drastically missing something. Assuming I'm allowed would the cost be 25,810gp?

The only "control" that exists for Genesis after it is cast is if the plane is divinely morphic or the DM allows some other type of morphic plane.

The DM might allow a morphic plane wherein a given creature or creatures are effectively omnipotent and can change all traits at whim but that is rules iffy and makes an already very powerful spell even more powerful.

If you really care, just buy a scroll of Genesis and then UMD it to cast it yourself.

[WebTiefling]

See spell description for additional costs. If the additional costs put the spell’s total cost above 3,000 gp, that spell is not generally available.

That would suggest it's gonna be darned near impossible to merely pay someone to cast that spell for you.

Also, the cost formula they give for having people cast spells is Caster Level * level of spell * 10 plus XP * 5.

That comes out to 17 *90 + 25000 = 26530 gold pieces. Wildly outside the range that they suggest is possible to find people to cast for money.

[Invader]

That would suggest it's gonna be darned near impossiblet merely pay someone to cast that spell for you.

Also, the cost formula they give for having people cast spells is Caster Level * level of spell * 10 plus XP * 5.

That comes out to 17 *90 + 25000 = 26530 gold pieces. Wildly outside the range that they suggest is possible to find people to cast for money.

That's the great thing about ambiguous wording. Not generally available and not available are 2 vastly different things :smallamused:

[WebTiefling]

That's the great thing about ambiguous wording. Not generally available and not available are 2 vastly different things :smallamused:

Yes, DM Rule 0.

Hopefully he makes it suitable almost-impossible for you to pay for it. A major quest/favor, or something like that.

Why would a 17th level caster want 26K gp? He has a dozen ways of getting that for himself for free the next time he prepares spells. He's a LOT more worried about losing the 5K experience than he is about some pocket change.

As a DM, there's no way in hell I would ever let that happen. Certainly not for merely gold.

I would suggest that it take special, non-gold payment. (demon/angel prince captured, atropol boogers, farts from Ghaunadar, or something)

And I would be VERY careful about having someone else cast Genesis for you. It is THEIR demiplane, and they are allowing you to use it. That is ALL that is going on. You only have that demiplane for as long as they feel like letting you have it.

[Invader]

Yes, DM Rule 0.

Hopefully he makes it suitable almost-impossible for you to pay for it. A major quest/favor, or something like that.

Why would a 17th level caster want 26K gp? He has a dozen ways of getting that for himself for free the next time he prepares spells. He's a LOT more worried about losing the 5K experience than he is about some pocket change.

As a DM, there's no way in hell I would ever let that happen. Certainly not for merely gold.

I would suggest that it take special, non-gold payment. (demon/angel prince captured, atropol boogers, farts from Ghaunadar, or something)

And I would be VERY careful about having someone else cast Genesis for you. It is THEIR demiplane, and they are allowing you to use it. That is ALL that is going on. You only have that demiplane for as long as they feel like letting you have it.

Not if they keyed to give me control. There's nothing in the wording that says they can't do it that way but regardless I'm not using it for any kind of munchkinery or ridiculous time abuse. I'm really only looking to have a little sanctuary for myself.

[Stux]

There's nothing in the wording of the spell about anyone having 'control' of the plane after its creation. You choose what the plane will be like and then its just a plane that is like that.

What are you hoping to control exactly?

[Chronos]

There are a couple of other factors that would drive up the cost. First, the standard prices for spells assume that you go to the spellcaster, and he casts it there. But "If you want to bring the spellcaster somewhere to cast a spell you need to negotiate with him or her, and the default answer is no. ", and having to go to the Ethereal Plane to cast Genesis would qualify as "going somewhere to cast the spell".

Second, Genesis takes a week to cast, during which the caster isn't going to be doing anything else, and that surely cranks up the price (though the rules don't say by how much). Effectively, you're not just buying one ninth-level spell; you're buying seven times as much as all of the caster's daily spell allotment.

[Mnemnosyne]

Yeah, there's a lot of hiccups with the actual availability of getting someone else to cast it for you, but UMDing a scroll of it is pretty much foolproof even if you don't have UMD. There are a lot of ways to boost your skill check on a one-time use.

If you have 0 ranks in Use Magic Device, then getting someone to cast wieldskill on you lets you count the skill as trained. From there you can use other skill-boosting spells and items in order to get up to a +36 on your check, thus allowing you to cast genesis from a scroll even if you roll a 1 on UMD.

[Invader]

I'm really not worried about controlling anything and I don't really even control of it. The main reason I want a demi plane is for some place to contingent spell teleport to when I'm in trouble and yes I know there are much easier options for that, I just like the flavor of having my own little plane.

[DuncanMacleod]

Except that obtaining a scroll of a ninth level spell is only viable by GM fiat, as is finding a ninth level caster:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mastery/settlements.html

Note that even in a metropolis the highest caster level that "has" to be there is 8th.

Edit: actually just noticed that capital cities separately state they have 9th level casters, whoops. Still listed under "sample cites" though, so still fiat. Also what WebTiefling said.

[Clistenes]

The only "control" that exists for Genesis after it is cast is if the plane is divinely morphic or the DM allows some other type of morphic plane.

The DM might allow a morphic plane wherein a given creature or creatures are effectively omnipotent and can change all traits at whim but that is rules iffy and makes an already very powerful spell even more powerful.

If you really care, just buy a scroll of Genesis and then UMD it to cast it yourself.

I can't remember if it was the Arcane, Psionic, Planewalking or Truenaming version of the spell, but one of them allowed you to choose the way the new demiplane could be accessed (Gate, Planes Shift...etc.), and also granted it effects similar to 0 to 2nd level spells, some of which could be under the control of the caster (for example, all non-magical fires would be under his/her control, as per the spell pyrotechnics, or everybody would look as belonging to the same race as the caster, as per reflective disguise).

[DuncanMacleod]

Is this a PF question or a 3.5 question? Makes quite a difference...

[Invader]

Except that obtaining a scroll of a ninth level spell is only viable by GM fiat, as is finding a ninth level caster:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mastery/settlements.html

Note that even in a metropolis the highest caster level that "has" to be there is 8th.

Edit: actually just noticed that capital cities separately state they have 9th level casters, whoops. Still listed under "sample cites" though, so still fiat. Also what WebTiefling said.

That's Pathfinder we're playing 3.5

Technically everything you try to buy is by DM fiat anyway...

[Ansem]

How reasonable is it to put a Wizard/Cleric at gunpoint with a crossbow or something and make them cast this for you. They wont gain new spells due to no meditation (so let them prepare genesis) they cast it and then you kill them anyway :D ?

[Invader]

How reasonable is it to put a Wizard/Cleric at gunpoint with a crossbow or something and make them cast this for you. They wont gain new spells due to no meditation (so let them prepare genesis) they cast it and then you kill them anyway :D ?

I'm not a psychopath :smallconfused:

Not to mention any caster that can prepare genesis is going to laugh at your crossbow :smallamused:

[demigodus]

How reasonable is it to put a Wizard/Cleric at gunpoint with a crossbow or something and make them cast this for you. They wont gain new spells due to no meditation (so let them prepare genesis) they cast it and then you kill them anyway :D ?

I would be interested in a build that is so obscenely optimized for firing crossbows that holding a lvl 17 wizard/cleric at crossbow point is considered a valid tactic.

[Invader]

Would the cost of a scroll be 28,825gp?

[Caligstro Smith]

Responding to the initial question:

Yes, you could pay someone to cast Genesis for you so that a demiplane is created. There'd be no need for keying of control or whatever, all it does is cause a little demiplane to exist.

The cost would depend on what version of Genesis you used. The only two I am aware of are the magic and psionic versions.

If you're looking for low cost, I would recommend the psionic version, as it only has a 1000 exp casting cost, instead of a 5000 exp cost.

The cost of casting genesis would be:
Magic: 17 * 9 * 10 + 5000 * 5 = 26,530 gp (as was already said by WebTiefling)

Psionic: 17 * 9 * 10 + 1000 * 5 = 6,530 gp.

The differences are that your demiplane will exist either on the Ethereal Plane or the Astral Plane, respectively. Which is preferable depends on your campaign, how likely the DM is to have stuff wander across your demiplane when you're not home, and personal preference.


HOWEVER, there's more cost associated with getting someone to do this: They have to GET to the Ethereal or Astral planes before they can cast this.

So you'll need to pay for AT LEAST two castings of Plane Shift also (assuming you don't want your demiplane to exist in a SPECIFIC location on said plane, which would then cost a lot more) -- one to get the caster there, and one to get them back (TECHNICALLY you'd only need to pay for the first one, but I seriously doubt a DM wouldn't charge you for the second way too). You'd also need a teleport to make sure that you got back to where you started on the material plane.

So another 3 * 5 * 9 * 10 = 1350 gp.

So cost of a demiplane on the ethereal plane: 27880 gp
astral plane: 6880 gp


Other notes: If you want to be able to escape to your demiplane in emergencies you'd need more than a contingent teleport -- you can't teleport to another plane. You'd need something like a contingent plane shift and a contingent teleport/greater teleport that activates upon the triggering of your contingent planeshift, or something like that.