[PF/3.X] Half-Dragon Grippli Natural Weapon Ranger

[The Insanity]

The build as it is now:

Half-Black Dragon Grippli Ranger (Woodland Skirmisher, Witchguard) 3 with Natural Weapon Style selected.

Str 26, Dex 20, Con 26, Int 13, Wis 20, Cha 18.

Feats:
1st. Power Attack
2nd. Improved Natural Attack (claws)
3rd. ?, Bodyguard

Favorite Enemy is Humanoid. Favorite Terrain is swamp.

I'm looking for suggestions on improving his combat abilities and optimal advancement on later levels.
I want him to be good at fighting with his natural weapons, but also be somewhat capable of protecting someone squishier. As a secondary focus I'm making him to be a skillmonkey.
I assume increasing Str further is the way to go. Unless there's a far better option that you can think of, I'm going to continue taking Ranger levels, because firstly they're not that bad and secondly they fit the flavor (he will be actually guarding a Witch character).

Changes that might be relevant:
The character has 30 ft. swim speed instead of flight.
Feats and abilities that normally give a natural weapon increase the weapons damage by one size if you already have that natural weapon. They also stack.

There's a high chance I omitted some important information, in which case feel free to ask for it.

[The Insanity]

Bump. 1100010111010001

[Psyren]

A half-dragon frogman? I shudder to think how that happened :smalltongue:

Anyway - Witchguard and WS do look like they can be combined, so you're fine there. Skirmisher's magic boost combos well with Witchguard's bonus Patron spells.

Suggestions/questions:

1) I would ask your DM to let you change WS' "Forest Ghost" to "Swamp Ghost."
2) What were your stats before adding Half-Dragon? Are you ECL 3?
3) Why do you have a swim speed instead of flight? And do you need it? Swamps may not always have enough water, but flight is always useful.
4) The Witchguard abilities require you to stand next to your witch; you'll want to gain reach so that she doesn't have to be in melee to benefit from your abilities. Enlarge Person won't work (you're a dragon now) so consider alternate methods like Lunge (though those will probably come available later.)
5) Get Combat Reflexes so you can Bodyguard her multiple times.
6) Since HD gives you two claws and a bite, you can skip Aspect of the Beast.
7) Don't wait for 10th-level to get Multiattack.

[The Insanity]

A half-dragon frogman? I shudder to think how that happened :smalltongue:
Same way a half-dragon human happens.


Anyway - Witchguard and WS do look like they can be combined, so you're fine there. Skirmisher's magic boost combos well with Witchguard's bonus Patron spells.
That's part of why I take them.


2) What were your stats before adding Half-Dragon? Are you ECL 3?
Str 26 = 16 + 4 (advanced) + 8 (half-dragon) - 2 (grippli)
Dex 20 = 14 + 4 (advanced) + 2 (grippli)
Con 26 = 16 + 4 (advanced) + 6 (half-dragon)
Int 13 = 07 + 4 (advanced) + 2 (half-dragon)
Wis 20 = 14 + 4 (advanced) + 2 (grippli)
Cha 18 = 12 + 4 (advanced) + 2 (half-dragon)
He's ECL 6 - Advanced (+1 CR) (forgot to mention it), Half-Dragon (+2 CR), Ranger 3.


3) Why do you have a swim speed instead of flight? And do you need it? Swamps may not always have enough water, but flight is always useful.
It's too useful and I don't like how the character will look with wings. Swimming frogman OTOH feels just right.


6) Since HD gives you two claws and a bite, you can skip Aspect of the Beast.
Even if it stacks (makes the claw damage bigger)?

[Psyren]

Same way a half-dragon human happens.

Yeah but... Kermit. :smalltongue:



Even if it stacks (makes the claw damage bigger)?

I don't see where it does that. Are you thinking of Improved Natural Attack? That one will make your claws bigger.

[The Insanity]

I don't see where it does that. Are you thinking of Improved Natural Attack? That one will make your claws bigger.
Houserule, which I mentioned in the OP.

[The Insanity]

Bump. 11110011000011

[The Insanity]

Nothing? aaaaaaaa

[Coidzor]

Are you married to Half-Dragon? Draconic will get you a weaker version of the claw attacks, but it won't change your type so you can benefit from buffs like Enlarge Person as well as take Aberration Blood > Inhuman Reach > Deepspawn for +5 feet of reach and 2 tentacle attacks. Though Willing Deformity > Willing Deformity(Tall) > Willing Deformity (Teeth) > Willing Deformity (Clawed Hands) might be more your speed.

You may also instead consider a toned down version of Feral.

Do you have access to 3.5 domains? If you can, then a dip into cloistered cleric could nab you knowledge devotion, the bite attack from the hunger domain, and one other domain that could potentially be traded for another devotion feat.

I seem to recall that there's some potential with barbarian rage powers and natural weapons in PF, but... I'm not recollecting how offhand.

Person Man has 3.X fairly well covered as far as gaining extra attacks and natural weapons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595), but not quite everything, IIRC, he leaves out the Hunger Domain.

[upho]

I seem to recall that there's some potential with barbarian rage powers and natural weapons in PF, but... I'm not recollecting how offhand.Yeah, 2 levels of barb for Fiend Totem (Lesser) gives you a gore (1d8, primary) when raging, while 10 levels barb and all three Beast Totem powers gives you claws/bite and pounce.


TI'm looking for suggestions on improving his combat abilities and optimal advancement on later levels.
I want him to be good at fighting with his natural weapons, but also be somewhat capable of protecting someone squishier. As a secondary focus I'm making him to be a skillmonkey.
I assume increasing Str further is the way to go. Unless there's a far better option that you can think of, I'm going to continue taking Ranger levels, because firstly they're not that bad and secondly they fit the flavor (he will be actually guarding a Witch character).AFAIK, the barb 10 BT pounce alternative is considered "the best" for natural attack striker builds in PF, since such builds are so dependent on making multiple attacks. A potentially annoying feature of the first BT powers is that they give you claws/bite, ie attacks which can be gained in multiple other ways and you already have* anyway. Of course, your "gain natural attack X twice = stackable Impr. Natural Attack"-house rule mitigates that problem somewhat, but I'd still look hard for other primary natural attacks if you decide to go the BT-pounce route. Is there some way for you to gain horns or tusks (gore), for example? It's also well worth considering that barb 10 can net you Spell Sundering, which, by itself, probably increases your PC's usefulness greatly.

If you gain pounce I'd also at least have a look at a monk (Master of Many Styles) 2 dip for a shortcut into Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity, giving your claws a little more oomph and, most importantly, allows you to ignore difficult terrain and to move through allies on a charge. Strictly according to RAW, you'd also need Feral Combat Training and WF to use any natural attack with IUS or any related benefit, but I'd definitely talk to the DM about a house rule here. IMHO, FCT really seems to be simply a badly written feat with the specific intent of allowing monk flurry with natural attacks - not to add a 2+ feat tax (WF + FCT) to IUS-dependent feats just because your hands have claws. (This is interpretation is also supported by published creatures and the otherwise rather incompatible rules for eidolons.)

If psionics are allowed, I'd also look into the Aegis (Aberrant?) class and/or psionic powers like Metamorphosis.

*Technically, a creature can have as many natural attacks as it has limbs to make those attacks with. So AFAICT, according to RAW it's fully possible for a creature with any combination of 4 arms/legs to take any two build elements that grant "2 claw attacks" and thus get 4 claw attacks. Though it might be questionable whether this is supposed to be possible for PCs, since it means you can have no less than 5 primary natural attacks as early as lvl 1. Personally, I wouldn't consider clawed feet 'til at least level 15, and then talk to the DM if the extra attacks seemed necessary and in balance with the other PCs in party.

Hope this gave you some ideas you hadn't already considered.

[The Insanity]

Are you married to Half-Dragon?
Yes.


Is there some way for you to gain horns or tusks (gore), for example?
I don't know any, other than that Barb Rage Power you mentioned.

If you gain pounce I'd also at least have a look at a monk (Master of Many Styles) 2 dip for a shortcut into Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity, giving your claws a little more oomph and, most importantly, allows you to ignore difficult terrain and to move through allies on a charge. Strictly according to RAW, you'd also need Feral Combat Training and WF to use any natural attack with IUS or any related benefit, but I'd definitely talk to the DM about a house rule here. IMHO, FCT really seems to be simply a badly written feat with the specific intent of allowing monk flurry with natural attacks - not to add a 2+ feat tax (WF + FCT) to IUS-dependent feats just because your hands have claws. (This is interpretation is also supported by published creatures and the otherwise rather incompatible rules for eidolons.)[/QUOTE]
What order would you suggest for taking the Barb and Monk levels, assuming you have 6 levels to use?
What feats do you suggest? Feral Combat Training, Dragon Style, Dragon Ferocity... Power Attack?

[Coidzor]

Yes.

Ah, well.


Yeah, 2 levels of barb for Fiend Totem (Lesser) gives you a gore (1d8, primary) when raging, while 10 levels barb and all three Beast Totem powers gives you claws/bite and pounce.

Ah, yeah, and then see if that'll stack with the gore granted by a horned helm(Magic Item Compendium MIC) in order to do more damage. Same goes for a Fanged Mask (MIC) as well, come to think of it.

Other than acquiring a form of lycanthropy that gains a gore in hybrid form, I can't think of another way to really get a gore aside from Warshaper or maybe Master Transmogrifist, and I'm iffy on Master Transmogrifist. Maybe Geomancer? Some class that mutates but is caster-based so the advantages are... limited...


*Technically, a creature can have as many natural attacks as it has limbs to make those attacks with. So AFAICT, according to RAW it's fully possible for a creature with any combination of 4 arms/legs to take any two build elements that grant "2 claw attacks" and thus get 4 claw attacks. Though it might be questionable whether this is supposed to be possible for PCs, since it means you can have no less than 5 primary natural attacks as early as lvl 1. Personally, I wouldn't consider clawed feet 'til at least level 15, and then talk to the DM if the extra attacks seemed necessary and in balance with the other PCs in party.

Hope this gave you some ideas you hadn't already considered.

That came up semi-recently, apparently the FAQ requires one to have pounce in order to use claw attacks if they're on a quadreped's hind legs or a biped's legs.

To me it reads like a really, really awkward pseudo-rake. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314867)