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Weiser_Cain
2013-10-09, 12:26 AM
So I like Blackguard Flavor-wise but I can't help but think it isn't the greatest class, you're welcome to set me straight on this feeling.

What are some better class options for the hells-touched melee aficionado?

Deaxsa
2013-10-09, 12:35 AM
So I like Blackguard Flavor-wise but I can't help but think it isn't the greatest class, you're welcome to set me straight on this feeling.

What are some better class options for the hells-touched melee aficionado?

Well, there's the paladin of tyranny/slaughter, and you could even take the PHB2 Knight and apply the "paladin of X" changes to it.. you could also play an evil crusader, the prestige class known as "Pious Templar" in Complete Divine, etc. Basically, almost any generic holy warrior can be refluffed as a generic UNholy warrior. and if it requires some alignment/has alignment problems, just swap to the desired alignments.

Additionally, and i know this is not what you asked for, but in Fiendish Codex II, on page 77, is a hell-touched race (called Hellbred) that is very fluffy for what you want (despite being a "good" race).

eggynack
2013-10-09, 12:38 AM
It's a decent class. With the traditional entry of ex-paladin 1/blackguard 10, you're getting 4th's off of a pretty limited list in 11 levels. You get some decent spells, like the summon monster line, and freedom of movement, but I'm not exactly sure what you do after that. Anyways, if a crusader or a cleric are the path to a better cleric, I've gotta figure that a crusader or a cleric can do the blackguard thing pretty well too. You could even combine them, and go the RKV religious assassin route. It's pretty neat.

QuickLyRaiNbow
2013-10-09, 12:43 AM
There are lots of options, depending on how strict you want to be with fluff. Something as non-divine as a Sorcerer-based Gish, Duskblade, Glaivelock or evil Crusader or Warblade (or refluffed RKV) can do what you want, and be more powerful than the Blackguard. There are also other PrCs like Bone Knight.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2013-10-09, 01:20 AM
Maybe come up with some sort of Dead (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a) Levels (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x) filler for it, something that gives a minor bonus in strictly noncombat situations at the 6th, 8th, and 9th class levels. For example, at Blackguard 6 allow him to ignore half his armor check penalty when making Hide and Move Silently checks, and ignore the entire armor check penalty to those skills at Blackguard 9. I'd also give it the same Extended Intimidation ability gained by a Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) 5 at Blackguard 8, so that when using Intimidate to influence NPC attitudes like Diplomacy the effect lasts for a day after he leaves, allowing him to keep someone's attitude toward him high by intimidating them every day.

I would just make Blackguard give "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class" at 6/10 levels and add all the Blackguard spells (or just the non-Cleric spells they get) to your class spell list for whatever class it advances. It would skip advancing spellcasting at the 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th class level, so it wouldn't be an automatic upgrade for any divine caster. Better than Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) (of Tyranny/Slaughter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny)), but with stiffer prerequisites. With that change something like a Strong-Arm Ranger 6/ Blackguard 1/ Divine Crusader 1/ Blackguard 9/ (full casting PrC) 3, using the Wrath domain for Divine Crusader, would be a very playable character. You could also go Duskblade 5/ Ur-Priest 2/ Blackguard 10/ Mystic Theurge 3 and move from Tier 3 to Tier 1 as you progress.

Now that I check, Blackguard is actually listed at Up One Tier (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5198.0) as-printed, though I guess this is assuming you're using a Tier 4 or lower entry.

Elric VIII
2013-10-09, 01:35 AM
My favorite Blackguard replacement is the Bone Knight (5 nations). You could also, very easily, slot the Ordained Champion (Complete Champion) into that role.

Also, just to be completely shameless, check out my sig. I made a Blackguard fix that revolves around using his weapon to apply debuffs and to take advantage of [ambush] feats. Also, he has 8/10 casting, so clerics and favored souls don't feel bad about taking it.

Person_Man
2013-10-09, 09:03 AM
Strait Paladin 11. Then do something Evil. Then convert 10 levels of Paladin into Blackguard. Fallen Paladin 1/Blackguard 10 is actually a fairly decent by itself at that ECL.

If homebrew is on the table, check the Knight Champion in my signature.

G.Cube
2013-10-09, 11:33 AM
I don't mean to jack your thread, but out of curiosity, which would be stronger, Paladin of Tyranny or Blackguard?

Elric VIII
2013-10-09, 07:07 PM
I don't mean to jack your thread, but out of curiosity, which would be stronger, Paladin of Tyranny or Blackguard?

Paladin. Blackguard requires a few bad feats and does not get much that is more useful than the Paladin features. Paladins also get better splat support, along with the fact that Paladin is front-loaded so you can PrC into something else and get the best benefits.

ArcturusV
2013-10-09, 07:20 PM
Though my favorite would be to get Level 1 (something, even Paladin of Tyranny), Maho-Bujin, take it to 10, pick up the Template to also get 10th level Maho-Tsukai casting along with a couple of traits, including becoming Undead. At level 11 you're pretty badass with some of the "Hell Knight" feel of full BaB, full casting (On a sorcerer progression granted), using blood to power yourself up, along with pure malevolence.

Urpriest
2013-10-09, 07:24 PM
Blackguard isn't really a concept in and of itself. It's a generic "evil dude" PrC. So in general, finding a "better" blackguard will depend on what particular sort of evil dude you actually want to build, who the guy works for, etc.

Idhan
2013-10-09, 07:58 PM
One issue is that blackguard is a sort of mix of rogue and evil paladin. For the most part, it's a sort of evil paladin-type class: an unsubtle bruiser slashing its way through problems with a greatsword or the like, with a touch of evil magic empowerment with some divine spellcasting, auras, smite abilities, etc. However, it also has that requirement for 5 ranks of hide and gets 3d6 sneak attack damage over the course its progression. Using the Unearthed Arcana simple variant of changing sneak attack damage for feats might help streamline the class into a purer bruiser. (I'm not sure how to replace the five ranks of hide in the requirements.)

Manly Man
2013-10-09, 07:58 PM
Be an evil Crusader. Honestly, they come across as even better black knights than the Blackguard does, and are, in my opinion, just better all-around; add a few levels of Cleric and go into the Ruby Knight Vindicator PrC for even more goodies.