man i sure am glad this exists!

[Devronq]

What is your favorite single feat, spell, class feature or well anything that makes you go man I'm sure glad this exists! For example you could say power attack I mean high damage melee would be nothing without it. And its not necessary to say a build just a peice of something that you absolutely love.
I love words of creation. Before I knew anything about optimization I though the bard was the worst class and I loved hearing about this feat made me and my players actually want to try a bard which as something we had never done before.

[Curmudgeon]

Craven (Champions of Ruin, page 17): the sine qua non of Rogue feats.

[Korahir]

Although overused: Knowledge devotion.

[JaronK]

I never liked Craven. Inability to use Necropolitan or Mind Blank is just too painful, and at the lower levels a bad will save combined with that makes fear effects horrible.

But on a similar note, Darkstalker. Thank goodness they made SOME way to let stealth classes actually hide from things. Though it shouldn't be a feat. It should be something you get automatically at a certain number of hide ranks or something like that.

JaronK

[TiaC]

Travel devotion, for allowing all my cleric-dipping characters mobility.
Lesser planetouched, for being powerful races that aren't all freakish.
Divine grace, for when you want your saves to be +no.
Gravetouched ghoul, for being a playable undead template.

[Ortesk]

Frenzy. Beating enemies to death (and a few party members who hit me with fireballs) to death since i preordered CW :smallcool:

[eggynack]

Heart of water all the way. I talk about that spell all the time, because it holds a special place in my heart (of water). It's just full of so much value, starting off as an under-leveled version of freedom of movement that I actually consider more powerful than its successor, and piling on bonuses from there.

[Kennisiou]

Factotum's ability to make additional standard actions is awesome. It feels like it enables so many builds. I can only imagine the possibilities that open up when you play a factotum/anything else in a gestalt campaign.

[ArcturusV]

Hmm.... single favorite. Hard to say. I'm tempted to call it out on Familiars. As a class feature having an intelligent Partner in Crime who helps you out, gives you bonuses, serves as a second in places you wish you could effectively be, etc, is just good times in my book. Never mind all the stuff you can trade it for, and then later just sink a feat on getting it back for a net gain. To me? Having a good familiar is like having a Swiss army knife on hand. Surprisingly useful, not exactly "flashy" in a way that draws people's attention most of the time, but you'll be glad you have it on you almost all the time. And sometimes it'll just save your life.

[Jon Everyman]

Tome of Battle. Not an original answer, certainly, but without it mundane would be a very boring place.

[bekeleven]

Spirit Lion Totem

Master of Many Forms

Practiced Spellcaster

On a more cheesy note: Precocious Apprentice, Improved Sigil (Krau), and similar.

[gooddragon1]

Transmuting and Force enhancements for weapons. Being 2 or 3 tiers below casters is bad enough without having to deal with damage reduction.

Also, eldritch glaive. Hideous blow... blows hideously.

[Curmudgeon]

I never liked Craven. Inability to use Necropolitan or Mind Blank is just too painful, and at the lower levels a bad will save combined with that makes fear effects horrible.
I've never liked Necropolitan. The loss of level is too twerky a mechanic, and being Undead just blows when your party Cleric is good at turning/rebuking. In that case the Necropolitan character is much more likely to be running away than the Rogue with Craven.

Also, Craven doesn't keep you from using Mind Blank. Mind Blank makes you immune to all mind-affecting fear effects, but not the visceral fear effects like Mummy Despair.

If you're a Rogue getting Craven you can grab the Uncanny Bravery ACF to be more fear-resistant anyway.

[Vaz]

Ardent Manifesting progression.

[Alberic Strein]

Diehard.

Because there is something about a dying warrior refusing to go down that will keep fighting until he is cleft in two that visceraly appeals to me. I don't even care if it's not mechanically good.

[Kane0]

Feat: Power attack
Spell: Magic Missile
Class feature: evasion and its improved cousin
Skill: Bluff
Item: dagger

Just the little things that make you go "thank god for x"

The sheer number of times they have pulled me or my party out of the fire is uncountable.

[IdleMuse]

Multiclassing. I don't think I really need to explian how much better a game D&D becomes when you can multiclass and take Prestige classes.

Featwise I'm pretty damn happy that Appentice (X) and Aerenal Focus exist, so many builds I've designed need some extra class skills.

[Brookshw]

Mettle! Just wish there were as many sources for it as there are for evasion.

[XmonkTad]

Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments!
I'm also really glad they wrote MoI. I love that system.

Sphere of annihilations and Talisman of the sphere.

[FullStop]

Stormguard Warrior, in ToB.

[Fax Celestis]

Duskblade, despite its flaws

[IronFist]

Invocations and other at-will magic abilities

[Yawgmoth]

Grim Revenge. I love that spell so much, and for the same reason I love pretty much the entirety of the BoVD (outside of the ridiculous "gross is evil" motif, but that's another thread); it's an incredibly flavorful effect that is also fairly mechanically sound. Plus your evil caster gets to say "stop hitting yourself!" to the victim, which is hilarious.

[Karnith]

Dread Necromancer, even though it's not terribly well-written.

The other fixed-list casters also, but mostly Dread Necromancer.

[JaronK]

I've never liked Necropolitan. The loss of level is too twerky a mechanic, and being Undead just blows when your party Cleric is good at turning/rebuking. In that case the Necropolitan character is much more likely to be running away than the Rogue with Craven.

Eh, I think it's totally worth it. You become immune to so much stuff, and vulnerable to so little... and Rogues need all the defensive bonuses they can get. Plus it means you can dump your con score and thus have a lot more stat points to put elsewhere. And you can take Lifesight!


Also, Craven doesn't keep you from using Mind Blank. Mind Blank makes you immune to all mind-affecting fear effects, but not the visceral fear effects like Mummy Despair.

You do realize all fear effects are mind affecting by definition, right? It's in the definition of fear. There's no such thing as "visceral fear effects".

JaronK

[almightycoma]

the sizing enchantment. I can't tell you how many problems it solves putting that on a quarterstaff of shield.

[danzibr]

What is your favorite single feat, spell, class feature or well anything that makes you go man I'm sure glad this exists! For example you could say power attack I mean high damage melee would be nothing without it. And its not necessary to say a build just a peice of something that you absolutely love.
I love words of creation. Before I knew anything about optimization I though the bard was the worst class and I loved hearing about this feat made me and my players actually want to try a bard which as something we had never done before.
+DFI

For me, Warforged. Love me some Warforged.

[Forrestfire]

Tome of Battle is up there, I guess.

Although one thing I absolutely love and try to get on every character is the Quall's Feather Token (Tree). Best. Item. Ever.

[Fax Celestis]

Although one thing I absolutely love and try to get on every character is the Quall's Feather Token (Tree). Best. Item. Ever.

Instant Tree™ is the solution to all problems.

[Forrestfire]

It really is :smallamused:
I will shamelessly admit that I have pulled out a physical geography textbook on more than one occasion to cite what the roots would do to whatever it grew on.

[GreenETC]

The Chameleon from Races of Destiny has always been my favorite class, even though I so rarely get to use it. It's just so good, and with a bit of finagling you become basically every class int he game ever. My personal favorite ones involve Duskblade for the awesome feel of stabbing people with great spells.

[Lord Haart]

Class: Dragonfire adept.
Feat: Draconic aura. Shape soulmeld: Blink shirt goes close second.
Spell: Prestidigitation, d'uh.
Psionic power: Time hop.
Maneuver: Shadow jaunt.
Class feature that isn't "pick an option from a big list": Channel spell.

[Gigas Breaker]

Tome of Battle. The amount of fun builds that are possible in that book ALONE has kept me playing.

[Lanson]

Touchsight (when I have it, hate it when enemies do)

Chameleon PRC

Horn of Valhalla (Iron) ( not particularly powerful, but tons of fun when you're playing a bard/barbarian type and need a little more oomph)

Spellcasting (the more the better)

[Story]

Gravetouched ghoul, for being a playable undead template.

You mean Necropolitan?


Anyway, I'd say Malphas's Birds Eye View. There are few problems which cannot be solved by infinite raven spam.

[Harrow]

Able learner, especially when combined with Expert, Human Paragon, or Factotum.

Share spells. Any time I have a familiar, animal companion, or special mount I'm glad I have this.

And that reminds me, anything that lets me have a powerful ally as a class feature/feat. Devoted Tracker, Wild Cohort, Leadership, Dragon Steed, Dragon Cohort, and Item Familiar, Ancestral Weapon, and Legacy weapons when made into Intelligent items.

For that matter, Intelligent items. Sadly, only me and my current DM like them, everyone else in my campaign hates them.

[DSmaster21]

Dervish Dance. Who needs strength? (PF)

[Ruethgar]

Magical Training, mmm spellcasting.

[Doc_Maynot]

The Chameleon from Races of Destiny has always been my favorite class, even though I so rarely get to use it. It's just so good, and with a bit of finagling you become basically every class int he game ever. -snip-

This guy, he knows what's going on. Factotum/Chameleon for life right here.
Also Academic Priest in regards to Chameleons

[pwykersotz]

Spell Thematics. The most entertaining feat ever. How else do you summon Pidgeotto from a pokeball with SNA 1?

[ddude987]

Ranged power attack... wait a minute

On a more serious note, I'm glad swift hunter exists because Scout/Ranger is one of my favorite builds.

[Amphetryon]

Jade Phoenix Mage.

[Techwarrior]

You do realize all fear effects are mind affecting by definition, right? It's in the definition of fear. There's no such thing as "visceral fear effects".

JaronK

Common misconception actually. Fear is a status condition. [Fear] is a tag used in some mind-affecting spells. Fear immunity and immunity to [Fear] spells (given by immunity to [Mind Affecting] spells) are totally different. Mind Blank only grants immunity to [Mind Affecting] and thus [Fear] spells. Intimidation, and other non-spell fear effects are not protected from by Mind Blank.

[Turion]

Wands of Heroics. 4'000 GP, and the entire party gets free feats for half an hour. Great for gishes, allows the fighter to switch-hit a bit better, makes rogues more versatile, and gives almost free access to ToB maneuvers. (move-action teleports, stone dragon lockpick, etc...)

[Tvtyrant]

Druid. It has so much stuff, and while s lot of it us awesome only the spells approach broken.

[Karnith]

Common misconception actually. Fear is a status condition. [Fear] is a tag used in some mind-affecting spells. Fear immunity and immunity to [Fear] spells (given by immunity to [Mind Affecting] spells) are totally different. Mind Blank only grants immunity to [Mind Affecting] and thus [Fear] spells. Intimidation, and other non-spell fear effects are not protected from by Mind Blank.
On the other hand (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#fear):

Spells, magic items, and certain monsters can affect characters with fear. If a fear effect allows a saving throw, it is a Will save (DC 10 + ½ fearsome creature’s racial HD + creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). All fear attacks are mind-affecting fear effects. A failed roll usually means that the character is shaken, frightened, or panicked.(Emphasis mine)

Mind Blank protects against more than you give it credit for.

[eggynack]

Druid. It has so much stuff, and while s lot of it us awesome only the spells approach broken.
Seconded. It's just such a dense and complicated class when you dig deep into it. I feel like I've been studying it for like a month, maybe more, and I still haven't really scratched the surface.

[The Viscount]

Race: Changeling. They're such a distinctive race, and there's so many ways to play them, plus most people common sense in the houserule for them to take able learner.

ACF: Skilled City Dweller. This thing has come in handy in Iron Chef so many times. Ride for tumble is the best trade I've seen in an ACF since invisible fist.

Spell: Probably Cloak of Hate. There aren't enough spells for social interactions (at least to me), and if you get creative this is a fantastic tool.

Class: Savant. Yes, I know factotum's better in most ways. I still really like savant. The thing's a qualifying machine. It gets everything slowly, but after 5 levels you have a little bit of everything, and entering PrCs becomes much easier. Martial weapon and armor proficiency, sneak attack, arcane spells, 6 skill points per level with every skill, and a bonus feat (any you qualify for).

Item: Elvencraft Bow. I really like the security that it gives.

[Yora]

I go with psionic power points and augmentable powers. Without these as an alternative to spell slots, I'd probably given up on the whole system years ago. But with this alternative magic system, it's actually quite playable.

[Flame of Anor]

Ranged power attack... wait a minute


You're looking for Hank's Energy Bow.

[VariSami]

Feat: Able Learner
Base Class: Human Paragon
Prestige Class: Any Theurge with full progression in both
Race: Warforged

As my first two choices reveal, I like flexibility in skill selection - and the Human Paragon is really worth it for most full casters without that many class features beyond the spellcasting. Sure, you lose one CL, and that can indeed be said to be crippling - but I prefer the way it allows for extra options.

I am also a sucker for dual progressions since I like to do as much as I can at a time. They are haunted by the same problem of losing CL:s by design but what can I say: my preferences are what they are.

And the Warforged are simply so cool, although they definitely have their weaknesses. I, for one, am disgusted by the -2 to Cha and -2 to Wis combination since it effectively prevents them from being used with many fun builds. Also, they have a bad form of feat tax in the form of different body feats.

[Curmudgeon]

You do realize all fear effects are mind affecting by definition, right? It's in the definition of fear.
Sorry, but that's incorrect. All fear attacks are mind-affecting by definition, but Mummy Despair doesn't have an attack roll.
There's no such thing as "visceral fear effects". That's my own word choice, but it meets the dictionary definition: "characterized by or proceeding from instinct rather than intellect". If it's a fear effect which does not satisfy any of the RAW qualifications to be considered an attack (no attack roll, not from a spell), it's not mind-affecting; consequently, it's visceral instead.

[Harrow]

Something I forgot, but probably the thing I am most often thankful for : The human bonus feat. Strongheart Halflings get honorable mention here for getting the bonus feat while being small, but they are also often seen as cheesy.

Honestly, if Humans had been slotted with something like +2 to any stat, -2 to any two stats, and the extra skill points, they still would have been a decent, adaptable race, but nothing as powerful as a bonus feat would have made it on to any race for less than +1 LA after. Humans just do everything better.

[bekeleven]

And the Warforged are simply so cool, although they definitely have their weaknesses. I, for one, am disgusted by the -2 to Cha and -2 to Wis combination since it effectively prevents them from being used with many fun builds. Also, they have a bad form of feat tax in the form of different body feats.

I'm playing a scout/face warforged now. They only have a -1 modifier compared to other races, a difference that is quickly swallowed up by maxed skill ranks and a synergy or two.

In the same way that you shouldn't take a feat for a minor numerical bonus, don't discount a race for a minor numerical penalty.

Now, for full casters...

[sideswipe]

feat: versitile spellcaster. makes favoured souls and sorcerers less suck. in comparison to wizards and clerics. also the reverse. (cant remember its name) leave a spell slot open and cast any spell you know as a full round action. it's a prepared casters get out of jail free card.

spell: mind r*pe (vile darkness)

ability: factotums extra standard action

and my favourite feat of all (as long as the adventure is only limited to 1st level and you never plan to level up ever!) is toughness. you can get about 40-50 hp's easily as a 1st level character. but never ever level up. you become useless lol

[Urpriest]

Sorry, but that's incorrect. All fear attacks are mind-affecting by definition, but Mummy Despair doesn't have an attack roll. That's my own word choice, but it meets the dictionary definition: "characterized by or proceeding from instinct rather than intellect". If it's a fear effect which does not satisfy any of the RAW qualifications to be considered an attack (no attack roll, not from a spell), it's not mind-affecting; consequently, it's visceral instead.

I would think that being a Special Attack would make something qualify as an attack.

[Talya]

Ruin Delver's Fortune

(I played a sorcerer with stupidly high charisma longer than any other character.)

Assay Spell Resistance wasn't far behind. Never had enough 4th level spell slots...

[JaronK]

Common misconception actually. Fear is a status condition. [Fear] is a tag used in some mind-affecting spells. Fear immunity and immunity to [Fear] spells (given by immunity to [Mind Affecting] spells) are totally different. Mind Blank only grants immunity to [Mind Affecting] and thus [Fear] spells. Intimidation, and other non-spell fear effects are not protected from by Mind Blank.

False. From the SRD:


Fear
Spells, magic items, and certain monsters can affect characters with fear. If a fear effect allows a saving throw, it is a Will save (DC 10 + ½ fearsome creature’s racial HD + creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). All fear attacks are mind-affecting fear effects. A failed roll usually means that the character is shaken, frightened, or panicked.

Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead.

So it doesn't matter what the source says, if it's an attack that results in a fear condition, it's mind affecting. Mind Blank shuts down all of that. Intimidation effects (such as Demoralization) are mind affecting as a result.

And despite Curmudgeon's claims, not having an attack roll or being a spell doesn't make something not count as an attack. There's absolutely no rule that says that whatsoever. Frightful Presence, for example, is given as an example just under that quoted section. It requires no attack roll and is not as spell.

JaronK

[ArcturusV]

One way to read it I suppose. I suppose the other is that since it mentions "Spells, Magic Items, and Certain Monsters" that it only applies to that (Instead of including "A skill anyone can use untrained", etc). Fear spell, sure. Item that does a fear effect? Yep. Dragon's Frightful Presence. Sure. Thug who uses Intimidate? Not so much. Though Intimidate does mention it doesn't work against characters specifically immune to fear (with an example of a Paladin who has explicit Fear Immunity), nothing in Mind Blank really calls out immunity to fear in and of itself.

Least that's how I read it myself. And it makes a certain amount of sense. Mind Blank being a spell that is supposed to stop Supernatural Effects from finding you or targeting your delicious wizard/sorcerer brain. And something like Intimidate being a social interaction that is entirely non-magical. (Though admittedly also somewhat nonsensical in the idea that some 15th level Thug could scare the crap out of the sort of 15th level wizard who walks around with all day long defenses up and would be nigh untouchable by a thug in most situations, at the very least wouldn't be smart to piss off that wizard with Intimidate and walk away).

I suppose it's not entirely clear cut unless you want it to be clear cut. As the exact same passage can be emphasized in two different (And seemingly valid) ways to produce two different responses.

[Curmudgeon]

I would think that being a Special Attack would make something qualify as an attack.
You might think so, but there aren't any actual rules statements which back up that assumption.
Special Attacks and Special Qualities
Many creatures have unusual abilities, which can include special attack forms, resistance or vulnerability to certain types of damage, and enhanced senses, among others. A monster entry breaks these abilities into special attacks and special qualities. The latter category includes ... That's the only part of the rules which comes close to defining what a "special attack" is: it's an unusual ability. So a special attack is only an actual attack if it meets a definition provided elsewhere in the RAW. Such as the basic Glossary definition (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_attack&alpha=):
attack

Any of numerous actions intended to harm, disable, or neutralize an opponent. The outcome of an attack is determined by an attack roll. We find a limited-scope definition of "attack" which applies in the context of reading spell descriptions (Player's Handbook page 171). The Invisibility spell contains a very limited definition of "attack" specific to ending its effect. There are a few other rules which categorize some specific actions as attacks.

Elsewhere in the RAW, Dragon Frightful Presence is globally defined as mind-affecting (Draconomicon, page 22), so that's negated by Mind Blank even though it's not a fear attack.

The sum of all of this is that Mind Blank provides almost (but not quite) immunity to fear. Those few exceptions are enough to make the Craven feat ("cannot be immune to fear") still viable when using Mind Blank.

[Caligstro Smith]

I'll try to go from specific to general here.

Class features:
Monk Unarmed Strike - for being a good monk class feature that has decent splat support and lets monks try to have some nice things

Animal companion - because I just love pets.

Feats:
Tashalatora - for an easy way to make good monks, but still allowing for lots of build variety within that solution.

Song of the White Raven - for making melee bards awesome.

Serenity (And all the other ability-dependency swapping feats like Academic Priest, Lost Traditions, etc) - for making my life easier and helping me be less MAD.

All the other feats that let you stack levels of X with levels of Y for the purposes of features for X and/or Y.


Races/Templates:
Necropolitan - for easy undead-ing, ability to dump con, applicability to tons of other base races without losing anything, and mindboggling synergy with Dread Necromancer.

Warforged - because robo-men are cool.

Human - for being amazing at everything, even if it's unfair to everybody else

Primordial Giant - for giving me more options for my mental-stat dependent characters.


Classes:
Dread Necromancer - because all I could ever want can be achieved by throwing enough skeletons at it.

Dragonfire Adept - for when I want to be dragon-y.

Exoticist Fighter - because exotic weapons are much more fun, and I would never want to waste a feat on EWP, and master of masks never seems to fit well in my builds (ESPECIALLY from a flavor/style standpoint).


Optional Rules:
LA buyoff - for letting me have more variety without horribly regretting it later


Books:
Tome of Battle - for giving mundane melee build LOTS more nice things

Tome of Magic - it's just cool (except truenaming)

Magic of Incarnum - it's just cool too (except soulborns). Also for fitting SO WELL both for straight builds and for dipping. It works for you no matter how you want to use it (except soulborns)!

[Divayth Fyr]

All fear attacks are mind-affecting by definition, but Mummy Despair doesn't have an attack roll.
And yet the Rules compendium lists Fear Auras and Frightful Presence under Fear attacks (using the very same format it lists shaken, frightened, panicked, and cowering as stages of fear). Last time I check, those didn't have an attack roll.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Dark Sun.

I gotta get my hands on the 2e books some day, since I've heard that the 4e setting is actually set back in time from it...

[Curmudgeon]

And yet the Rules compendium lists Fear Auras and Frightful Presence under Fear attacks (using the very same format it lists shaken, frightened, panicked, and cowering as stages of fear). Last time I check, those didn't have an attack roll.
(While I could go on a tangential rant about Rules Compendium's self-proclaimed ultimate rules authority, I'll refrain. Instead, let's stick to the substance of the rules.) So we have here a specific categorization of Fear Aura and Frightful Presence as attacks. Dragon Frightful Presence was already categorized as mind-affecting, so that's not much of a change from the standpoint of Mind Blank and Craven. Now RC adds something labeled as Fear Aura to the list of attacks. Liches and Devils have Fear Aura, so those are attacks. A Deathshrieker (Monster Manual III, pages 32-33) has Despair, which is like a Fear Aura, but not labeled as such; the word "aura" isn't used anywhere in the creature description.

As long as there's at least one fear-inducing effect which isn't categorized as mind-affecting or an attack in the game, you can still use Mind Blank while retaining the benefit of Craven: you're not immune to (all) fear effects.

[Invader]

I love the idea of the Harper prestige classes in FRCS, I just hate that they're pretty bad.

[Divayth Fyr]

As long as there's at least one fear-inducing effect which isn't categorized as mind-affecting or an attack in the game, you can still use Mind Blank while retaining the benefit of Craven: you're not immune to (all) fear effects.
Or the rule was written with the intent that any and all abilities causing fear are "fear attacks" which may or may not be actual attacks, but fall under the rule that all such abilities are mind-affecting.

[JaronK]

Curmudgeon, are you actually trying to argue that Special Attacks aren't Attacks so that you can justify the idea that using a hostile action to alter an opponent's mental state isn't mind affecting and isn't an attack?

And are you using the definition of attack that's talking about the attack action (as opposed to showing a definition of all forms of attack) to do it?

Just to be clear here.

JaronK

[(Un)Inspired]

Favorite spell:
Stone Shape. I have so much fun every time I play a character that can cast this (maybe I just watch too much Full Metal Alchemist)

Favorite class:
Binder. I can't think of another class that spews forth flavor and mechanics in such a perfect blend.

Favorite prestige class:
Fochlucan Lyrist. I know its so far away from optimized but I'm currently playing a Rogue 2/ Bard 1/ Druid 2/ Green Whisperer 5/ Fochlucan Lyrist 2. Its so much fun hitting the party with a huge inspire bonus then activating mass snake's swiftness. Also I like looking like a regular bard that can pull incredible druid magic out of his pocket when no one suspects it.

[Curmudgeon]

Curmudgeon, are you actually trying to argue that Special Attacks aren't Attacks
Yes, if they're only special and not actual attacks as defined in the RAW.

so that you can justify the idea that using a hostile action to alter an opponent's mental state

No action is used for effects like Despair.
Fear is not defined in the rules as a "mental state". Mindless creatures are not immune to fear; they're only immune to mind-affecting effects (which happen to include many, but not all, fear effects).
Intelligence

Any creature that can think, learn, or remember has at least 1 point of Intelligence. A creature with no Intelligence score is mindless, an automaton operating on simple instincts or programmed instructions. It has immunity to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects) and automatically fails Intelligence checks.

Just to be clear here.
Unless you can find some part of the rules which defines all fear effects (not merely fear attacks) as mind-affecting, your argument starts with the unsubstantiated premise that such effects must be both attacks and mind-affecting. I'm instead trying to derive a conclusion from the actual rules. Just to be clear here.

[Osiris]

I like magic items. Without them, spellcasters would dominate! Not everybody is always a caster :smallannoyed: But I usually am!

Anyway, I also like cheesy tricks, like using the decanter of endless water. It makes infinite salt water pretty much. Do this over a superstrainer and sell your infinite salt for infinite gold :smallbiggrin: thought of this one myself

[ArcturusV]

Just to throw this out there on the Fear/Mind Effecting/Mind Blank thing:

Mind Blank makes things immune to fear as fear is supposed to be listed as Mind Effecting, which Mind Blank is immune to.

Not that undead have a similar "Immune to Mind Effecting".

If you turn/rebuke undead, you're using a Fear Effect (As Cower is defined as one).

Which oddly means either Turning/Rebuking (Excepting perhaps the Destroyed Result of Turning Only) actually is either dysfunctional, or that there is something different between Spells, Monster Effects, and Items and other sources of Fear like Turning/Rebuking and Intimidation.

At least it seems to form a logical puzzle that tips things closer to Curmugeon's point of view. Either that or the old standby of "WotC doesn't cross check things before they say stuff".

More on topic, kinda surprised Tome of battle is listed so much. I might have to actually cave and try to actually read it and use it one of these days...

[Doc_Maynot]

Yes, you should. It's a very nice read, make sure to read it closely though cause some look through and become over-welmed.

[Caligstro Smith]

Yeah, kinda in the same way a lot of people describe MoI, ToB has lots of stuff in it for everyone, and the more time you spend looking at it the more you get out of it.

Although I'd say that ToB is MUCH MUCH quicker to read through and pick up an equal degree of usefulness from than MoI.

[Curmudgeon]

Just to throw this out there on the Fear/Mind Effecting/Mind Blank thing:

Mind Blank makes things immune to fear as fear is supposed to be listed as Mind Effecting, which Mind Blank is immune to.

Not that undead have a similar "Immune to Mind Effecting".

If you turn/rebuke undead, you're using a Fear Effect (As Cower is defined as one).

Which oddly means either Turning/Rebuking (Excepting perhaps the Destroyed Result of Turning Only) actually is either dysfunctional, or that there is something different between Spells, Monster Effects, and Items and other sources of Fear like Turning/Rebuking and Intimidation.

At least it seems to form a logical puzzle that tips things closer to Curmugeon's point of view. Either that or the old standby of "WotC doesn't cross check things before they say stuff".
That's a good point. While it's logically sufficient to show that one example of a fear effect which isn't negated by Mind Blank is enough for the specific purpose of allowing Craven to work, it doesn't hurt to provide an example of a fear effect which specifically works against those immune to mind-affecting effects. A Skeleton is both Undead and mindless — so doubly immune to mind-affecting effects — yet when turned and unable to flee, will cower (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#cowering), "frozen in fear".

So that knocks the whole "alter an opponent's mental state" claim for fear effects out of the debate. Thanks, ArcturusV.

[JaronK]

Yes, if they're only special and not actual attacks as defined in the RAW.

Again, that's the attack action you got the definition of right there. But let's go with your theory. If it has no attack roll and isn't a spell, it's not an attack. So... this, for example?


Trample
As a full-round action, a creature with this special attack can move up to twice its speed and literally run over any opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. The creature merely has to move over the opponents in its path; any creature whose space is completely covered by the trampling creature’s space is subject to the trample attack. If a target’s space is larger than 5 feet, it is only considered trampled if the trampling creature moves over all the squares it occupies. If the trampling creature moves over only some of a target’s space, the target can make an attack of opportunity against the trampling creature at a -4 penalty. A trampling creature that accidentally ends its movement in an illegal space returns to the last legal position it occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

A trample attack deals bludgeoning damage (the creature’s slam damage + 1½ times its Str modifier). The creature’s descriptive text gives the exact amount.

So, is a trample attack also not an attack?

And here's another one:


Gaze Attacks
While the medusa’s gaze is well known, gaze attacks can also charm, curse, or even kill. Gaze attacks not produced by a spell are supernatural.

Each character within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw (which can be a Fortitude or Will save) each round at the beginning of his turn.

That's also not an attack right? Because it's not a spell and has no attack roll.

You know, most people at this point would realize that things that are labeled as attacks are attacks, and that you picked out the wrong definition (your definition is for an attack action, not attacks in general).

But you? Are you going to hold on to the theory that Special Attacks, Trample Attacks, and Gaze Attacks are not attacks?


No action is used for effects like Despair.

True for Gaze attacks too.


Fear is not defined in the rules as a "mental state". Mindless creatures are not immune to fear; they're only immune to mind-affecting effects (which happen to include many, but not all, fear effects).

Like in all things, if we lack a D&D definition in the rules we seek the dictionary. Fear is absolutely a mental state there.


Unless you can find some part of the rules which defines all fear effects (not merely fear attacks) as mind-affecting, your argument starts with the unsubstantiated premise that such effects must be both attacks and mind-affecting. I'm instead trying to derive a conclusion from the actual rules. Just to be clear here.

Actual rules list a heck of a lot of things as attacks that your out of context definition doesn't fit. That says your rule sourcing is problematic.

Here's my definition of attack: anything the rules say is an attack. This includes Special Attacks, Trample Attacks, Gaze Attacks, and Attack Actions. Probably some other ones too.

See how easily that works?

JaronK

[Icewraith]

Undead being immune to mind-affecting effects but still affected by turning sounds more like a case of specific trumps general to me. Furthermore, cowering is a separate condition from fear that happens to be called out by the fear descriptor. A creature that is immune to fear could still cower if dominated and ordered to do so, or as in this case, when undead and affected by the turned condition (which also calls out cowering) and unable to flee.

If cowering was only found as a subset of the fear description you might have a point, but it is its own separate condition that can be called either by characters affected by fear or turning.

Edit: JaronK, consider interaction with the invisibility spell. Anything that would break invisibility is an attack. Interestingly enough, this means that a mummy with improved invisibility could fear everything around it and nobody would know why (subject to spot, listen, see invis etc.).

[JaronK]

Indeed, Undead can be made to cower or flee, but they can't be shaken, frightened, or panicked. The first two are possible consequences of fear, whereas the latter three are actual fear states. You can even die from fear via certain spells... undead immunity to fear doesn't make them immune to death. They just can't flee or cower or die from fear.

Note there's no reference anywhere in the rules to non attack fear. The rules ONLY refer to fear as an attack. And as long as we don't try to claim Special Attacks aren't Attacks, then Fear (as a Special Quality that harms enemies, and thus a Special Attack by definition) itself is always an attack.

JaronK

[Curmudgeon]

Undead being immune to mind-affecting effects but still affected by turning sounds more like a case of specific trumps general to me.
There's no "trumping" going on here. If Undead were immune to fear effects then being forced to cower when turned would be an exception. But that's not what's involved with turning, because turning isn't a mind-affecting effect. Being turned is a reaction to channeling positive or negative energy that has nothing to do with having a mind.

[DSmaster21]

Druid - Way better healer (at least at low levels) than the cleric. Two Terms 2d4 Goodberries.

[bekeleven]

Here's my definition of attack: anything the rules say is an attack. This includes Special Attacks, Trample Attacks, Gaze Attacks, and Attack Actions. Probably some other ones too.

See how easily that works?

JaronK
Are all special attacks attacks?

I ask because special attacks include things like Invisibility, Bless, Bull's Strength, etc.

[eggynack]

Are all special attacks attacks?

I ask because special attacks include things like Invisibility, Bless, Bull's Strength, etc.
I'd generally go with the definition provided by the spell invisibility: " For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe." It's definitely a specific example, rather than a general rule, but it's an interesting definition.

[Yogibear41]

Templates- in general, LA buyoff, and Damage reduction for those times when the wizard calls the were-bear overpowered :smallsmile:

[tadkins]

Frostburn, the book. I tend to like characters with cold/wintery themes and that book gives plenty of options.

[thycalmesuperma]

Tibbits.... I have not roled one yet... But Next game I am in I will roll one. Her seem SO epic!!!

[Helcack]

I like low magic campaigns, so I enjoy the feats that give low level spells X times/day. I also enjoy the BoED & the BoVD especially the sacrificing to the dark gods thing, it makes bad guys have a reason to kidnap the babies and murder them.

[JaronK]

Are all special attacks attacks?

I ask because special attacks include things like Invisibility, Bless, Bull's Strength, etc.

Interestingly enough, in later books spells are sometimes Special Qualities, other times they're Special Attacks. Looks like the early books listed the Spells ability as a Special Attack simply because they could be used as an attack, but each individual spell might be a Special Quality or Special Attack usage.

JaronK

[TuggyNE]

I'd generally go with the definition provided by the spell invisibility: " For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe." It's definitely a specific example, rather than a general rule, but it's an interesting definition.

There's actually a general rule.
Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents are considered attacks. Attempts to turn or rebuke undead count as attacks. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.

Any, or almost any, fear effect should qualify; even if they don't damage opponents, they're offensive (in the sense of hampering subjects), and usually have saving throws.

I suppose if you have a passive aura with no action or saving throw, it might not be included as such. Otherwise, though....

[Curmudgeon]

There's actually a general rule.
I'm afraid it's not so general. That rule is specific to the context of reading spell descriptions, so you'll understand the consequences if the word "attack" is used in a spell. I already mention that in this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16186904&postcount=60).

[bekeleven]

Man, you can disagree about RAW precedence all you want, but curmudgeon is never wrong about a cite.

[TuggyNE]

I'm afraid it's not so general. That rule is specific to the context of reading spell descriptions, so you'll understand the consequences if the word "attack" is used in a spell.

Per RAW, I suppose that's true, which means that e.g. Intimidate is only mind-affecting if you're currently under the effects of invisibility, sanctuary, or similar.


I already mention that in this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16186904&postcount=60).

So you did, sorry.

[Pickford]

Pristmatic Ray (actually just about any prismatic spell). I just love the wheel of fortune (of doom!) aspect to it.

After that? Ruby Ray of Reversal. Alliteration never tasted so fun.

[Cranthis]

Instant Tree™ is the solution to all problems.

All I want for christmas is a Duskblade with a bloodstone weapon and a sack of feather token trees.

[Fates]

Class: Hexblade. The first warrior class I actually enjoyed- it may be sub-par, but with a little finagling (and the semi-official fix), it can be a whole lot of fun. Plus, the fluff is good.

ACF: As a player, Shadow Cloak Knight. Adds a whole new area of focus for a paladin without giving up anything; gnomes get all the cool stuff. As a DM, it's probably Sneak Attack fighter- so that I can actually make first-level rogue NPCs with Weapon Finesse. :smallannoyed:

Feat: Probably go with Wild Cohort. For when I want to play a goblin barbarian who rides a wolf, dammit! Obtain familiar is great too- can make playing a bard a whole lot of fun. (Glibness anyone?)

PrC: Speaking of bards, how about the sublime chord? Allows myriad new options for the class with the ability to take S/W spells, plus it speeds up spell progression considerably. Song of Arcane Power is great.

Spell: Bestow Curse. There's no end to the misery you can cause with this spell.

Power: Call Item. So much utility! Another ability that's really only limited by one's creativity.

Race: I'm quite fond of Chaos Gnome, provided free LA/La Buyoff is allowed. Makes for a nice option for any Cha-Based caster, which frankly is the archetype I'm most partial to.

Magic Item: Probably Heward's Handy Haversack, for obvious reasons.

Mechanic: Counterspelling! With the right spells/feats/ACFs, this can actually become a very viable option.

[Arael666]

I can't believe no one mentioned this already, but I simply can't live without Divine Metamagic+persist spell (and everything that goes with the build).

If I can't go DMM persist cleric, I'll just play a wizard instead.

[Gwendol]

Penetrating strike ACF: who's immune to SA damage again...?

[Zanos]

The Eidetic Spellcaster ACF. You have an expansive spellbook? That's cute. I imprinted all my spells on my brain. By smoking.

The searing spell metamagic is awesome too, because you can actually make a pyromancer who's shtick isn't invalidated or mitigated by resistances 95% of the time.

[Keneth]

Warlock. The original class is kinda meh, but I like the basic idea so much that I'm currently working on my 5th remake of the class.

[Gadora]

All those feats like Daring Outlaw that stack class abilities. They are pretty neat and there need to be more of them than there are.

[evisiron]

As a DM:
-Rod of Wonder. I always include these as loot early on (but no vendors will buy it) to give people an option when no other option exists. Nothing makes me smile like a melee character in a ranged engagement turning the battlefield in to a spell soaked quagmire of chaotic nonsense!

-Owlbears. These beasts summarise the tone of my games, dangerous, weird and somewhat confusing. I've included a different variety in every campaign, most recently as hydra-Owlbear hybrids.

As a player:
Hewards Handy Haversack and Tree Tokens!