Let's Vote up a World! [Pathfinder]

[Tanuki Tales]

Running the Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition for as long as I have now, I have found that, while I enjoy homebrewing myself, I enjoy far more seeing others go about the practice. I love to see all the different concepts and ideas mush and swirl together and become something absolutely amazing that I may never have even thought of. So, I thought to myself, why not pull this off on a grander scale than just coming up with a class, a race or a monster?

So, welcome one and all to the "Let's Vote Up a World!" thread!

The way we'll pull this off is somewhat simple and how I go about deciding the themes for each month's contest over in the PGBC:

I'll throw out a basic framework of a concept for us to start with.
The first X suggestions towards the concept (or as close to X as we can get) will be the accepted things to be voted on. (The exact number for X will be defined with each concept on a case by case basis.) Every person can give one of those X suggestions, until it's necessary to fill the slots.
Voting rounds will remain open for several days (generally no longer than a week) and each person (whether they've contributed thus far or not) will receive Y amount of votes to cast (Y is usually equal to half the amount of things being voted on that round). At the end of each round, we'll remove the lower threshold (generally the bottom half, but this can vary on a case by case basis) of voted upon suggestions and move on to the next round until we have our winners! At that point I'll add what we decided to the World Building Spoiler here on the first few posts and we'll move on to the next concept.
Any and all ties will be decided either by a round of Sudden Death voting, a coin flip, or my judgement call, whichever is most practical on a case by case basis.
Although this world will be built with using it to play Pathfinder games in mind, this does not limit anything decided upon in this thread to only existing Pathfinder concepts. In fact, outside ideas, homebrew and the like are encouraged!










So, here's the concept we're determining currently:



Races! How many is too many?!: Part Deux


What races shall we have?

We'll start voting once we have 64 suggested races!







The setting has a tone defined as "Renaissance Arcane". What this means is that the world is currently in the midst of a similar "Age of Enlightenment" that Europe experienced from the 14th century through the 18th century, but with magic and dragons and stuff.
Tone of the World
Tanuki Tales
RustedKitsune
Pesimismrocks
BornValyrian
Thunderfist12
SquidOfSquids
malonkey1
Ajadea
3WhiteFox3
LordChaos13
tortor
BornValyrian
Sabeki
Grim_Wicked
Alexkubel
Rama
caledscratcher
Fortis
Plerumque
Recherché
Shyftir
Benthesquid
Ralcos
zabbarot
sktarq
AgentofHellfire
starwoof
zabbarot

[Tanuki Tales]

Reserved for further use: A

[Tanuki Tales]

Reserved for further use: B

[Tanuki Tales]

Reserved for further use: C

[RustedKitsune]

I like the idea of a slightly Grimdark High Fantasy with just a touch of Clockpunk or Steampunk. In short, Dungeonpunk, like China Meville's Perdido Street Station.

[Pesimismrocks]

Steampunks always good but my voteson wild west

[BornValyrian]

I would like to see a high fantasy + steampunk, arcanepunk, (think ravnica or eberron, but mainly ravnica) world

[Thunderfist12]

Hmm... steampunk/grim'n'gritty/dystopia/low-fantasy. Meaning little-to-no mages, a broken, dark world, lots of steam-tech, and possibly psionics replacing magic?

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, this is what we have so far then:

{table=head]World Tones

Dungeonpunk
Steampunk
Arcanepunk
Psionic, low-fantasy, grim'n'gritty dystopian steampunk
[/table]


So that's 4, with a heavy leaning towards "Punk"iness amongst our contributors thus far. :smallwink:

[SquidOfSquids]

How about desert-punk? Any kind of punk is more punky when it's in a harsh desert setting.

[malonkey1]

I want to suggest "Renaissance Arcane," or Renaissance-era, mid-to-high magic. What if Galileo had access to Alchemy? What if Michelangelo's paintings could speak? What if Da Vinci could have actually made half the stuff in his notebooks (and more!)?

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones

Dungeonpunk
Steampunk
Arcanepunk
Psionic, low-fantasy, grim'n'gritty dystopian steampunk
Desert-Punk*
Renaissance Arcane
[/table]


*No relation. :smallwink:




So we've got 6 down, with only 4 to go! Keep the ideas flowing everyone!

[Ajadea]

I do like that Renaissance-Arcane one. High magic, an age of innovation and discovery...

However, let me propose another.

Ancient Civilizations

Forget knights in shining armor - what about the Three Kingdoms in China, Hellenistic Greece, New Kingdom Egypt, the Persian Empire, Celtic Britain, etc? There are no castles or greatswords yet. Magic is great and mysterious and highly respected, if somewhat fuzzy on the details. The oldest members of the longest-lived races might well remember when showing up to battle with iron weapons was like bringing a gatling gun to a knife fight. Pants are the clothing of barbarians.

[3WhiteFox3]

I suggest an epic, grandscale settting. But not just in the high-power way, what I mean is a setting that deals primarily in big concepts and ideas, combined with a Planar focus. Something kinda like a Planescape-Discworld hybrid but with it's own unique, Pathfinder flavor. I want the setting to be expansive and accessible for any group.

[LordChaos13]

I'm going to just throw this out there:
Portal-linking Space Fantasy

Instead of spaceships, you have naturally occurring portals linking planets together.
Space remains uncolonized but on every planet there are 3 (or more) different portals, setting up a large network the outer reaches haven't even been explored yet.
This shifts every X Hundred/Thousand/Million years rearranging, ruining multiplanetary civilizations as their trade routes vanish, their core worlds suddenly dozens of worlds away from each other.

Emphasis on finding the lost portals, defending them as natural chokepoints, a Space era where Infantry actually MATTERS

[3WhiteFox3]

I'm going to just throw this out there:
Portal-linking Space Fantasy

Instead of spaceships, you have naturally occurring portals linking planets together.
Space remains uncolonized but on every planet there are 3 (or more) different portals, setting up a large network the outer reaches haven't even been explored yet.
This shifts every X Hundred/Thousand/Million years rearranging, ruining multiplanetary civilizations as their trade routes vanish, their core worlds suddenly dozens of worlds away from each other.

Emphasis on finding the lost portals, defending them as natural chokepoints, a Space era where Infantry actually MATTERS

Something kind of like star-gate/mass effect (for the idea of relays that send things across vast distances) but for fantasy? I really dig that.

[LordChaos13]

More like the X series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_(game_series)) and their alien jumpgates

The portals would have fixed entry and exit points, as opposed to the dialing system of the Star Gates that could hit any other gate you have the phone number of.

[3WhiteFox3]

More like the X series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_(game_series)) and their alien jumpgates

The portals would have fixed entry and exit points, as opposed to the dialing system of the Star Gates that could hit any other gate you have the phone number of.

Ok, gotcha.

[malonkey1]

If I may be allowed to suggest a second one, I'd like to propose Patchwork World: Some great cosmic event rent asunder several dozen worlds, and the gods/powers that be were forced to stitch the pieces together into a single world filled with a variety of bizarre civilizations. could vary between Anime-level fantasy and gritty, almost no-magic areas.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones

Dungeonpunk
Steampunk
Arcanepunk
Psionic, low-fantasy, grim'n'gritty dystopian steampunk
Desert-Punk*
Renaissance Arcane
Ancient Civilizations
Planescape-Discworld hybrid
Portal-linking Space Fantasy
[/table]

So, we just need one more! If we don't get something in the next 24 hours, then I'll add Malonkey's second suggestion and we'll start voting.

[RustedKitsune]

Clockpunk. It's like steampunk, but with clockwork!

[malonkey1]

Clockpunk. It's like steampunk, but with clockwork!

YES. I love this idea. I have a homebrew race that would be perfect for that theme.

DISCLAIMER: This is not a vote.

[tortor]

A World Rent Asunder.

The world is falling apart, the gods no longer answer prayers,
Whatever force holds the world together is fading.

Think Darksun minus the desert and with just the whole world being stripped and ravaged in various ways

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones|Votes

Dungeonpunk|0
Steampunk|0
Arcanepunk|0
Psionic, low-fantasy, grim'n'gritty dystopian steampunk|0
Desert-Punk|0
Renaissance Arcane|0
Ancient Civilizations|0
Planescape-Discworld hybrid|0
Portal-linking Space Fantasy|0
A World Rent Asunder|0
[/table]


Now that we've reached the ten concepts to be voted upon, we move on to the voting round. You get 5 votes to cast, which must each be cast for a separate contender. The five with the highest amount at the end of the voting period will move on to the next round, while the lowest five will be dropped! Any ties will be decided with a round of sudden death voting.

Voting for this round will remain open until 11:59 p.m. EST on the 16th!

[RustedKitsune]

My Votes

Dungeonpunk
Portal-Linking Space Fantasy
Arcanepunk
Psionic, low-fantasy, grim'n'gritty dystopian steampunk
A World Rent Asunder

[malonkey1]

Arcane Punk
Renaissance Arcane
Ancient Civilizations
Planescape-Discworld Hybrid
Portal-Linking Space Fantasy

[BornValyrian]

Casting my votes for arcane-punk, psionic low fantasy etc., renaissance arcane, ancient civilizations, and world rent asunder

[3WhiteFox3]

Psionic, low fantasy, grim-n-gritty, steampunk
Renaissance Arcane
Ancient Civilizations
Planescape-Discworld Hybrid
Portal-Linking Space Fantasy

[Sabeki]

Voting cause why not :smalltongue:
1 Arcane renaissance.
2 Steampunk
3 Dungeonpunk
4 Desert Punk
5 Psion low fantasy.

[LordChaos13]

1. Arcanepunk
2. Renaissance Arcane
3. Ancient Civilizations
4. Portal-linking Space Fantasy
5. A World Rent Asunder

Mah votes! Count tem.
:smalltongue:

[Grim_Wicked]

1. Renaissance Arcane
2. Portal-linking Space Fantasy
3. Dungeonpunk
4. Desert-Punk
5. Arcanepunk

[Ajadea]

In no particular order: Renaissance Arcane, Ancient Civilizations, Grim & Gritty, Steampunk, Planescape-Discworld.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones|Votes

Dungeonpunk|3
Steampunk|2
Arcanepunk|5
Psionic, low-fantasy, grim'n'gritty dystopian steampunk|5
Desert-Punk|2
Renaissance Arcane|7
Ancient Civilizations|5
Planescape-Discworld hybrid|3
Portal-linking Space Fantasy|5
A World Rent Asunder|3
[/table]

Votes tallied to here and the Contributors list is updated. :smallbiggrin:

[LordChaos13]

Looks like we have our winners already
4 5s and 1 7.

[tortor]

We haven't ended the voting yet you naughty charlatan~

[Tanuki Tales]

There can still be some sudden darkhorse winners with all the time left. Don't count anyone out yet. :smallwink:

[Alexkubel]

hmmm
1.Ancient civilization
2.World rent asunder
3.Portal-linking space fantasy
4.Dungonpunk
5. the psionic thing

[Thunderfist12]

1. low-psi-thing
2.ancient
3.steampunk
4.portal
5.desert-punk

[malonkey1]

Jeez guys...Trying to keep as many tied for first as possible?

[Rama]

I'll throw a few votes at you.

1: Renaissance Arcane
2: Portal-linking Space Fantasy
3: A World Rent Asunder
4: Arcanepunk
5: Desert-Punk

[caledscratcher]

Just saw this. I've always loved these!
1. Dungeonpunk
2. Psionic low-whatever blah
3. Planescape-Discworld hybrid
4. Desert-punk
5. Arcane renaissance

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones|Votes

Dungeonpunk|5
Steampunk|3
Arcanepunk|6
Psionic, low-fantasy, grim'n'gritty dystopian steampunk|8
Desert-Punk|5
Renaissance Arcane|9
Ancient Civilizations|7
Planescape-Discworld hybrid|4
Portal-linking Space Fantasy|8
A World Rent Asunder|5
[/table]

Votes tallied to here!

[tortor]

World Rent Asunder
Steam Punk
Renaissance Arcane
Ancient civs

[malonkey1]

World Rent Asunder
Steam Punk
Renaissance Arcane

Just making sure you know, if you want, you can vote for up to five.

[tortor]

Dungeon, desert, and arcane punk are all sub genres of steam punk, and cpuld exist within a steam punk world just fine, but have little interest (to me) as an entire campaigm setting.

Portal space shenanigans and disc worlds can't be run in Pathfinder (the systrm our wprld needs tp be compatible with by the end)

But yeah, ancient civs is added to my vote, kuz I forgot that it was there, ans it sounds AWESOME

[malonkey1]

Portal space shenanigans and disc worlds can't be run in Pathfinder (the systrm our wprld needs tp be compatible with by the end)

I don't see why they couldn't be run. I mean, they may need some specific rules, but there shouldn't be any reason why this would render it incompatible with Pathfinder, provided it's designed with those rules in mind.

[Fortis]

Eh, why not?

1: Renaissance Arcane
2: Portal-linking Space Fantasy
3: Arcanepunk
4: Steampunk
5: Ancient Civilizations

Listed in no particular order.

[3WhiteFox3]

I don't see why they couldn't be run. I mean, they may need some specific rules, but there shouldn't be any reason why this would render it incompatible with Pathfinder, provided it's designed with those rules in mind.

Yeah, I don't see what about either Planescape or Discworld is impossible to translate to Pathfinder. There is a 3.5 planescape conversion anyway, and it's just a world inspired by those settings, so we have leeway to change anything that we need to for it to fit the Pathfinder rules.

Same thing with Portal-linked Space Fantasy. It may have some unique concepts compared to vanilla pathfinder, but nothing that couldn't be done with some effort.

[Tanuki Tales]

Pathfinder canonically has alien worlds...so...

I mean, the Reign of Winter path:

Has you end up following Baba Yaga off planet to some ice world and then ends up having you thrown forward/sideways in time to WWI-WWII era Russia to fight Rasputin, who is Baba Yaga's bastard prodigal son.

Pathfinder can do any of the things mentioned thus far in the thread succinctly.

[Sabeki]

^^^ wut. Wut wut wut. Wut.

[Plerumque]

I'll cast my votes for Dungeonpunk, Steampunk, Ancient Civilizations, Planescape/Discworld Hybrid, and World Rent Asunder.

[Recherché]

I'll vote Steampunk, Arcanepunk, Renaissance Arcane, Ancient Civilizations and Planescape-Discworld hybrid

[Shyftir]

Ancient Civilizations.

Just that. It's the only one that interests me.

[LordChaos13]

Dungeon, desert, and arcane punk are all sub genres of steam punk, and cpuld exist within a steam punk world just fine, but have little interest (to me) as an entire campaigm setting.

Portal space shenanigans and disc worlds can't be run in Pathfinder (the systrm our wprld needs tp be compatible with by the end)

But yeah, ancient civs is added to my vote, kuz I forgot that it was there, ans it sounds AWESOME

Portal space:
Literally just more than 1 world and 3 places of interest on each where multi-world empires run supplies through
Sure it lends itself better to a spaceage level of tech with lasers and laserswords and hovertanks but those are just refluffed bows, swords and horse/carts respectively (though the tank might have a Fly speed etc. and maybe weapons its still using the same rules)

Discworld: Isn't there already a planescape PF hack? I know there is a 3.5 version and PF is basically 3.5 bugfix at it's most basic level

EDIT: Also Arcanepunk and Steampunk are VERY different, same as Dungeonpunk though Im less familiar with it
Arcanepunk is essentially Magitech, as opposed to the steam power of Steampunk
Desertpunk is a variant and yes capable of your criticism there but is still viable (see: Dark Sun is basically Apocalypse IN TEH DESERT!)

[Alexkubel]

I can say one thing, steampunk, is a sci-fi sub genre. Dungon-punk and arcane punk are not, they do not meet the requirements for sci-fi mainly that they are technologically feasible in our world. Steampunk merely got nudged with future more and more. But really everything in steampunk should have an actual basis.

And I know nothing of desert-punk so I can't say much about it.:mitd:

There is also a difference between sci-fi future and future, sci-fi future lacks faster then light travel.

Also the original Frankenstein book is of sci-fi genre.

that said, I feel happy now. the thing I'm getting at really is the suffix -punk doesn't just apply to sci-fi, it refers to technology in on area taken to the extreme, you get ancient-punk, renaissance-punk, high-fantasy-punk, cyberpunk etc.

[tortor]

I <3 Cyberpunk!~
That is all.

[LordChaos13]

I can say one thing, steampunk, is a sci-fi sub genre. Dungon-punk and arcane punk are not, they do not meet the requirements for sci-fi mainly that they are technologically feasible in our world. Steampunk merely got nudged with future more and more. But really everything in steampunk should have an actual basis.

Arcanepunk done right COULD be a hard scifi AU genre
Since -punk is essentially 'path of technology' and a Hard Sci-Fi is just 'explain HOW it works without saying Because Science/Magic'
The AU is because well, you need to rewrite the laws of physics to make arcane possible but meh, same thing with most FTL Hardscience

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones|Votes

Dungeonpunk|6
Steampunk|7
Arcanepunk|8
Psionic, low-fantasy, grim'n'gritty dystopian steampunk|8
Desert-Punk|5
Renaissance Arcane|12
Ancient Civilizations|12
Planescape-Discworld hybrid|6
Portal-linking Space Fantasy|9
A World Rent Asunder|7
[/table]

Votes tallied to here!





^^^ wut. Wut wut wut. Wut.

Yeah, that's a printed adventure path from Paizo. They are just that awesome and want Pathfinder to be that kind of awesome.

And the portal linking one doesn't really need to be any more sci-fi than Planescape was. You simply have planets instead of planes and probably one planet will take the place of Sigil.

[Thunderfist12]

Just a suggestion: if/when we vote for races, we should probably start with racial niches and number of races before assigning them, then vote for a race/group of races to fit each individual niche. We could do something similar with classes as well.

Maybe we should vote on it?:smallbiggrin:

[LordChaos13]

Seconded
Yay democracy

[sktarq]

Ancient Civ
Psion Desert Dystopia thingamajig
World Rent Asunder
(this space intentionally left blank)
(this space intentionally left blank)

[Thunderfist12]

Yay, another vote for Grim 'n' Gritty!:smallbiggrin:

[Sabeki]

Its either nitty gritty or Renaissance. I hope for Renaissance.

[Plerumque]

You mean Ancient Civilizations or Renaissance? Pretty sure those are the two in the lead right now.

[Tanuki Tales]

Doesn't matter who's in the lead. The voting for this works based on elimination rounds and not a "winner takes all" Battle Royal. As soon as the deadline hits in about...3 hours 57 minutes (as of me typing this), 5 will be dropped and we'll begin voting to cut the remaining 5 down to 2.

Also, the idea I was approaching for races was to start with numbers. After that, we would vote on the actual races and then spend a round on each winning race to decide on the cultural niche they fill.

I was kind of hoping to broach to all of you something that's been discussed in another thread I've done, which is the concept that "races" should be pushed from just "humans with pointy ears", "short humans with beards" and "green humans with tusks" to trying to give every non-human race (if we decide to have non-humans and not just humans split between varying cultures for "races") a biology and mindset that is definitively not human and then base their culture around that.

[RustedKitsune]

Just a suggestion: if/when we vote for races, we should probably start with racial niches and number of races before assigning them, then vote for a race/group of races to fit each individual niche. We could do something similar with classes as well.

Maybe we should vote on it?:smallbiggrin:
Thirded. The motion stands.


Also, the idea I was approaching for races was to start with numbers. After that, we would vote on the actual races and then spend a round on each winning race to decide on the cultural niche they fill.

I was kind of hoping to broach to all of you something that's been discussed in another thread I've done, which is the concept that "races" should be pushed from just "humans with pointy ears", "short humans with beards" and "green humans with tusks" to trying to give every non-human race (if we decide to have non-humans and not just humans split between varying cultures for "races") a biology and mindset that is definitively not human and then base their culture around that.
That sounds excellent, although figuring out based on "player niche" is also a good idea.

[malonkey1]

I was kind of hoping to broach to all of you something that's been discussed in another thread I've done, which is the concept that "races" should be pushed from just "humans with pointy ears", "short humans with beards" and "green humans with tusks" to trying to give every non-human race (if we decide to have non-humans and not just humans split between varying cultures for "races") a biology and mindset that is definitively not human and then base their culture around that.

Well, as far as alien mindsets, I have something to say. One good way to get an alien mindset is to re-rig their priorities, especially in concern to the Maslow Hierarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs). Additionally, there's this interesting website called Xenology (http://www.xenology.info/Xeno.htm) with thoughts on alien mindsets, that could be pretty useful.

[Tanuki Tales]

Just to clarify by how simple "alien" could mean:

Race A is completely blind and thus perceive and interact with the world in a way humanity couldn't comprehend. Their entire cultural is based around that unique biology, just as ours is based around our own.

Race B is psychologically incapable of giving anything up. They may relent or acquiesce, but they never forget the goal at hand and neither will any of their descendents. It doesn't matter how long it takes or what lengths they'll need to take or sink to, they simply won't give up until their will is done. [This is how the Dwarves in someone's setting work and I absolutely love it.]


So it doesn't have to be all Illithids and sentient swarms of spiders.

[malonkey1]

Just to clarify by how simple "alien" could mean:

Race A is completely blind and thus perceive and interact with the world in a way humanity couldn't comprehend. Their entire cultural is based around that unique biology, just as ours is based around our own.

Race B is psychologically incapable of giving anything up. They may relent or acquiesce, but they never forget the goal at hand and neither will any of their descendents. It doesn't matter how long it takes or what lengths they'll need to take or sink to, they simply won't give up until their will is done. [This is how the Dwarves in someone's setting work and I absolutely love it.]


So it doesn't have to be all Illithids and sentient swarms of spiders.

Well, yeah, "alien" is a pretty broad category.

[Rama]

Just to clarify by how simple "alien" could mean:

Race A is completely blind and thus perceive and interact with the world in a way humanity couldn't comprehend. Their entire cultural is based around that unique biology, just as ours is based around our own.

Race B is psychologically incapable of giving anything up. They may relent or acquiesce, but they never forget the goal at hand and neither will any of their descendents. It doesn't matter how long it takes or what lengths they'll need to take or sink to, they simply won't give up until their will is done. [This is how the Dwarves in someone's setting work and I absolutely love it.]


So it doesn't have to be all Illithids and sentient swarms of spiders.

Sounds good. I will say we probably want to be careful not to go *too* alien, assuming we don't end up with the planescape setting.

[Benthesquid]

I can say one thing, steampunk, is a sci-fi sub genre. Dungon-punk and arcane punk are not, they do not meet the requirements for sci-fi mainly that they are technologically feasible in our world. Steampunk merely got nudged with future more and more. But really everything in steampunk should have an actual basis.


Objection!

Steampunk was originally coined to refer to a collection of novels by a triumvirate of authors, James P Blaylock, Tim Powers, and K.W. Jeter.

Jeter's Morlock Night has H.G. Well's Time Machine, but it also has Merlin, King Arthur, and Excalibur.

Powers's The Anubis Gates explicitly posits that the existence of magic waxes and wanes throughout history.

What I've read of K.W. Jeter is more or less loosely based in actual science, so cheers on that one.

[RustedKitsune]

Well, as far as alien mindsets, I have something to say. One good way to get an alien mindset is to re-rig their priorities, especially in concern to the Maslow Hierarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs). Additionally, there's this interesting website called Xenology (http://www.xenology.info/Xeno.htm) with thoughts on alien mindsets, that could be pretty useful.

You can also rerig the meanings of each need (what does a safe shelter look like? what does the typical family look like?) or even prioritize them within the hierarchy level (what does it mean when self-respect is seen as less worthy than respecting others? What happens when intimacy [sexual and personal] is more valued than family?) and so on. Also take a look at the criticism of Maslow's Hierarchy.
I wouldn't call it a hierarchy, but instead basic groupings of needs. Basic physiological needs, basic emotional needs (categories: relating to others, safety, the self), and so on, most of which are interconnected in some way (especially emotional ones). Alien minds are alien because they do not have our cultural background, in addition to different neurological and biological mechanisms.
An interesting thing to think about in relation to the world we're making: time and intercultural contact. As time goes on, and intercultural contact goes up, cultures begin to either appropriate or exchange (the difference? one is done with respect, and the other is done because it seems cool) various things, including ideals. This also happens internally, where a new ideal is created and spreads. Cultures remain static over time using a combination of three things: Traditionalism (traditions are passed down and seen as inviolate), Isolationism (there is little intercultural contact), and Xenophobia (intercultural contact is rejected). Consider that in the typical fantasy world, all the races are clustered together in a relatively small area for long periods of time.
And I lost my train of thought, so I'll stop here :smallfrown:

[LordChaos13]

Consider that in the typical fantasy world, all the races are clustered together in a relatively small area for long periods of time.
And I lost my train of thought, so I'll stop here :smallfrown:

Consider also the talk of Alien races, of the fact they would have different needs, wants and rankings of said
What does a culture look like that puts Wants over Needs? Perhaps a fad-based culture where some people could go days without eating simply because they are too busy playing WoW or hopscotch or learning how to dance.

A culture favouring martial prowess but also subtlety due to said prowess causig destruction?
Maybe a dance-focused society with short sharp rhythms evolved from their ancient fighting styles (as opposed to our own which came from the flow of movesets and evolved into a less combatative more symbolic style), where revealing outfits showing muscle is the norm and it is a sign of weakness to cover them as you seem not might enough to show your body proudly

Or to use Maslow's pyramid: Put morality in the highest tier, but lack of prejudice in with the neds to eat, sleep etc.
A race of colourblind sociopaths, believing philosophy is for Peacetime, when it can be done but until then they take arms and discard all meanings of the word war crime to Get Things Done. Ignoring differences in age, gender, combatant or noncombatant in their pillaging not targeting a certain type of people in their attacks except those that can be targeted more easily.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones|Votes

Dungeonpunk|6
Steampunk|7
Arcanepunk|8
Psionic, low-fantasy, grim'n'gritty dystopian steampunk|9
Desert-Punk|5
Renaissance Arcane|12
Ancient Civilizations|13
Planescape-Discworld hybrid|6
Portal-linking Space Fantasy|9
A World Rent Asunder|8
[/table]

Votes tallied to here and we now find ourselves in a Sudden Death round!


{table=head]World Tones|Votes
A World Rent Asunder|0
Arcanepunk|0[/table]

Everyone gets 1 vote here and whoever has the most by 11:59 pm tonight will be moving on to the next round!

[Rama]

Damn that's a tough choice.

Given the other four we're looking at, I'll vote A World Rent Asunder.

[malonkey1]

Arcanepunk. World Rent Asunder doesn't really speak much to me.

[BornValyrian]

My vote for arcanepunk

[Sabeki]

My Kingdom, My Kingdom for ArcanePunk! :smalltongue:

[Plerumque]

World Rent Asunder.

[RustedKitsune]

Arcanepunk.

[Alexkubel]

asunder, we don't need magic where we're going!

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones|Votes
A World Rent Asunder|3
Arcanepunk|4[/table]

Votes tallied to here.

[Thunderfist12]

A World Rent Asunder

[malonkey1]

You guys love to make things tied, dontcha?

[Benthesquid]

Arcane punk, by preference. (If it's not too late to get in on the voting).

[tortor]

Seeing as it was my Idea I will be making the obvious vote of World Rent Asunder

[Recherché]

Arcanepunk

[Fortis]

My vote goes to arcane punk.

Though honestly, the two combined into one sounds pretty awesome to me.

[LordChaos13]

Arcanepunk
Because Magical Da Vinci MUST be in the setting somehow :smallamused:

[Shyftir]

Arcanepunk, but seriously I'm really into Ancient civilizations, so I'm gonna champion that... hard.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones|Votes
A World Rent Asunder|5
Arcanepunk|9[/table]

Votes tallied to here.


And with that decided, we move on to the next round:

{table=head]World Tones|Votes

Arcanepunk|0
Psionic, low-fantasy, grim'n'gritty dystopian steampunk|0
Renaissance Arcane|0
Ancient Civilizations|0
Portal-linking Space Fantasy|0

[/table]

This time around you've got three votes to cast and only the top two world tones will go on to face each other head to head in the finals. Voting will remain open until 11:59 pm EST on the 20th.

[BornValyrian]

in no order:

Ancient Civilization
Arcane Renaissance
Arcanepunk

[LordChaos13]

1. Portal
2. Renaissance
3. Ancient Civs

I was really tossing up between Ancient and Arcanepunk, but since neither are the one I'm going for 100% I went for the one I did the coin 'trick' with

Basically flip a coin and the one you feel yourself Wanting to land faceup you go for without looking at the coin result

[Benthesquid]

Renaissance Arcane
Arcane Punk
Ancient Civilizations

[Rama]

Renaissance Arcane
Ancient Civilizations
Portal-linking Space Fantasy

[LordChaos13]

Wow, 4 votes
2 exactly the same
2 exactly the same and only different to the 1st set by switching out ArcPunk for Portals


EDIT: Oh, will we be incorporating bits and pieces from the not-accepted settings to make things unique, say the top 3 we are voting on now would be incorporated?
2 setting things to pick apart and scavenge and the Main focus

[AgentofHellfire]

Renaissance Arcane
Arcanepunk
und...

Ancient Civilizations.

[Benthesquid]

Wow, 4 votes
2 exactly the same
2 exactly the same and only different to the 1st set by switching out ArcPunk for Portals


EDIT: Oh, will we be incorporating bits and pieces from the not-accepted settings to make things unique, say the top 3 we are voting on now would be incorporated?
2 setting things to pick apart and scavenge and the Main focus

Well, there are only ten possible votes (well, sixty, technically, but order doesn't really matter here)

[Recherché]

Renaissance Arcane, Arcane Punk, Ancient Civilization
It does feel like Arcane Punk and Renaissance Arcane could be combined for something very interesting.

[malonkey1]

Renaissance Arcane, Ancient Civilizations, Portal-linking space fantasy.

[zabbarot]

Portal-linking space fantasy
Grim'n'gritty psionpunk
Arcanepunk

[LordChaos13]

Portal-linking space fantasy
Grim'n'gritty psionpunk
Arcanepunk

C-C-C-Combo breaker!:smallamused:
Come on we had a good thing going there

[zabbarot]

C-C-C-Combo breaker!:smallamused:
Come on we had a good thing going there

I did what I came to do.

[Alexkubel]

portal!

ancient

psionic thing!

[tortor]

Ancient
Renaissance
Psionic Grunge

[Plerumque]

Anciet Civilizations, Renaissance Arcane, and Arcanepunk.

[Thunderfist12]

Grim 'n' Gritty,
Ancient Civilizations,
Arcanepunk

[RustedKitsune]

Arcanepunk
Psionic, low-fantasy, grim'n'gritty dystopian steampunk
Portal-linking space fantasy

[zabbarot]

Huh... Considering the votes after mine maybe I really did break it :smalltongue:

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones|Votes

Arcanepunk|7
Psipunk Grunge|5
Renaissance Arcane|9
Ancient Civilizations|12
Portal-linking Space Fantasy|6

[/table]

Votes tallied to here.

Pity that we finally got a catchy name for the psionic one only for it to have no chance to win.

[Fortis]

Arcanepunk, Renaissance, ancient.

[Sabeki]

Can I vote for the same thing? If so, Renaissance, Renaissance, Renaissance.

If not: Renaissance, Psipunk Grunge, and Space Fantasy.

[Shyftir]

Psipunk Grunge! (before I thought that was weird but Grunge over punk? yes.

Infact I want t just think of the whole thing as PsiGrunge. Punk is to my mind when you have the slick "wow you can do that with steam/electronics/etc. (which has negative side effects)"
Grunge? that's more "wow you can do blah/blah/ with blah, too bad it makes the world dirty and messy and generally not good at all"

Ancient Civs (still my favorite, this could be mixed with "roman/early asian-techPunk)

Renaissance Arcane Perhaps a tall ships and mighty magic thing going on?

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones|Votes

Arcanepunk|8
Psipunk Grunge|7
Renaissance Arcane|12
Ancient Civilizations|14
Portal-linking Space Fantasy|7

[/table]

Votes tallied to here.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones|Votes
Renaissance Arcane|0
Ancient Civilizations|0


[/table]

And we're down to two folks! You get one vote and the tone with the most by 11:59 pm EST on the 22nd will take the whole thing home!

[Benthesquid]

Renaissance Arcane!

[Rama]

Ancient Civilizations!

[Ralcos]

Renssaince Arcane.
(passes in vote)

[LordChaos13]

Arcane
because Da Vinci wearing a wizard hat

[BornValyrian]

Arcane renaissance

[malonkey1]

I feel I should abstain, seeing as one of the choices is my own.

[Rama]

I feel I should abstain, seeing as one of the choices is my own.

Naw, go for it.

[Tanuki Tales]

Regardless of which wins, we'll have an important question to ask:

Are we making an Alternative History setting or simply an Inspired By setting.

[LordChaos13]

Inspired By for Arcane Renaissance
AH for AC

[Plerumque]

Ancient Civilizations. And I vote for Alternate History.

[malonkey1]

Well, I'd say Alternate History for either one. And I think I'll vote for Renaissance Arcane, as I feel the Pathfinder system would lend itself better to that level of technology that the classical nations (Greco-Roman, Egyptian, and that era) I assume Ancient Civilizations would be going for.

[Shyftir]

Ancient Civs

told everybody I'd champion it the whole way.

No matter which one wins I think "inspired by" works better than AH.

[BornValyrian]

I also think Inspired By would also work much better than Alternate history.

[Tanuki Tales]

I also personally prefer Inspired By, but this is a group project after all. Alternate History would just require more research and adaptation, as well as the decision of where history forked.

[BornValyrian]

I would say inspired by, gives us a lot more leeway

Edit: whoops didnt realize i already posted. Ninja'd by myself

[zabbarot]

I would say inspired by, gives us a lot more leeway

Edit: whoops didnt realize i already posted. Ninja'd by myself

Are... are you a time traveler? ._.

I'll vote for Ancient, just because Renaissance seems pretty close to the default pathfinder setting to me.

[malonkey1]

If we get Alternate History, I have a few possible places where the world may have forked:


The world was always magical, but it waxed and waned, reaching record lows with the collapse of Rome, but the optimism of the Renaissance brought it back. (perhaps bringing back classical deities, too?) Will you champion the Old Gods, or will you fight their rise with the Catholic Church?
The Conquest of Constantinople caused the scholars there to flee to Italy, where they sold their ancient mystic secrets to survive. Since then, magic has become widespread, but mostly held by the aristocratic nobles and wealthy kings. Will you steal the Medici's trove of magical trinkets under their noses? Will you aid Da Vinci in his workshop? Or will you wage war and carve out a kingdom of your own?
When Columbus reached the New World (unbeknownst to him), he brought back slaves, gold, and something much more valuable: scrolls containing the secrets to magic. Once they were translated, the knowledge they contained was sold across Europe, making Spain very wealthy (even more so than usual). Perhaps you are an English soldier, readying yourself to battle the Spanish Empire, or you are a slave from the Americas, raging against the chains that bind you, or perhaps you are a wealthy Portuguese noble, seeing greater riches across the sea? Whoever you are, a whole "New World" of adventure awaits!
When Shakespearw was born, a certain genius entered the world. When he wrote his first play, that genius began to take root. When the globe theater was constructed, and Shakespeare's plays were first performed there, that genius burst forth into the world, in more ways than one. They didn't call him "The Bard" for nothing, after all. Will you sweep the stage away with your magical performance, will you conquer for Queen and Country, or will you seek to stop the expansion of the English Crown?

[sktarq]

Ancient Civs
Psion Desert Dystopia thingamajig
(This space intentionally left blank)

[Thunderfist12]

You.. do realize we're voting between Rennaisance and Ancient, right?

Anyways, Ancient Civilizations, Inspired By History.

[tortor]

Seconding Thinderfist, ancient civs from history~

[RustedKitsune]

Inspired by Renaissance Arcane

[Sabeki]

Alt history Renaissance, cause that has a whole lot of awesome ideas.

[Recherché]

I'm liking Inspired By Renaissance

[Ajadea]

As my ideas is one of the two up for setting concept, I'll abstain on that. However, I vote, whichever setting we choose, we do Inspired By rather than a direct alternate history.

[tortor]

Where is Tanuki?! I have no Idea who/what is winning without his tables of tallied votes! @n@

[Plerumque]

As my ideas is one of the two up for setting concept, I'll abstain on that. However, I vote, whichever setting we choose, we do Inspired By rather than a direct alternate history.

No, no, vote! Please?

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]World Tones|Votes
Renaissance Arcane|8
Ancient Civilizations|6


[/table]

Votes tallied to here.

[tortor]

We aren't tallying Inspired By and Alternative Universe seperately?

[Thunderfist12]

That vote tally will probably come after this one.

[Tanuki Tales]

That vote tally will probably come after this one.

This. We'll worry about each thing at its proper time.

[Thunderfist12]

Yes, I knew he would say that. I cast augury on this post.:smallbiggrin:

[tortor]

Curse your augury thunderfist!

[Thunderfist12]

I counterspell your bestow curse, tortor.:smallbiggrin:

[3WhiteFox3]

Argh... I'm torn, I love both concepts.

But I'll go with Renaissance Arcane.

[Tanuki Tales]

Renaissance Arcane it is.

Now just decide amongst yourselves whether you ultimately want "Alternate History" or "Inspired By". This'll be more an improptu discussion than actual voting, since it is really something more to be discussed than voted upon.

[LordChaos13]

I think Inspired By. We don't want France and Burgundy in our setting, it nails things down too much.
Simply the feeling of the Renaissance with our own history and countries.


While there may be a France-styled country with wine fields and a long coast it will be our choice and may be far away from and England-style and not connected at all to Spain


Inspired simply gives us greater freedom and allows ideas rather than guesses as to what would happen if an Elf invasion happened in Navarra suddenly

[Thunderfist12]

Edit: This post was actually shorter than I thought it was.

Inspired By gives us more freedom to create, expand, and detail. We know that our own Rennaissance era had no magic, so why would we use it for a magical setting? Why would Da Vinci be an alchemist when he really wasn't? Why would elves exist in Alternate history if they didn't exist anyways?

And the questions go on and on. The point is, it would be much more fun to roleplay in a setting that is not already the world you live in, and it would be more satisfying to see a Da Vinci-esque wizard than to see Da vinci as a wizard. And a new world gives us a reason why dragons, elves, and goblins could all exist without stretching the suspensioin of belief.

And if that isn't enough, Alternate History would require far too much research to maintain, and would end up with any player who knows his world history criticizing the DM's decisions. "Why does Da Vinci have a pointy hat?" "There are no elves in the real world!" "There was no guillotine in that castle!" "But I thought the king's favorite torture device was the Iron Maiden!" "But clocks were invented a long time before that!" "COOKIE!!!" And so on and so forth.

So, as a result, I would say that Inspired By is, in all ways, superior to Alternate History.

[Rama]

I concur, inspired by seems better.

[Shyftir]

Consensus! I too prefer Inspired by! For all the reasons suggested, though I think I would prefer an all humans setting.

[AgentofHellfire]

I fifth the desired mode!

[LordChaos13]

So what do we vote on next?

Maybe how developed Magic is before the renaissance kicks off?

[Thunderfist12]

^^ ... And races!

And treasure! Oh, wait, that doesn't seem to fit in the context...

[LordChaos13]

I vote Humans and 4 other Races each that feel like different Races, not just Humans with Pointy Ears, or with Beards.

I think it was discussed earlier about how to make them unique


As for magic I'd like it to be very ritualistic and Wizards are secluded and take 1 or maaaybe 2 apprentices at a time before the Renaissance
Ritualistic in the 'I don't know WHY, it just Works' way and the inefficient little added steps that either do nothing or actually lose power but are repeated because people haven't had the time or inclination to study that thing before

The leadup to the Ren would be the formations of Wizarding Colleges, among other things, this would make Magic a more commonplace thing and people could have research projects debunking those little myths such

[3WhiteFox3]

I too think that Inspired By is the way to go. Alternate history can be fun, but I prefer the creative freedom that creating a new setting from new cloth.

[Thunderfist12]

Hmmm...

I say 3 to 5 races (maybe even 2 if one has subraces), each of which is very alien to the others.

Racial Niches:

Dominant Race
Magical Race
High-Altitude Race
Underground Race (?)
Aquatic Race (?)

[LordChaos13]

Racial Niches:

Dominant Race
Magical Race
High-Altitude Race
Underground Race (?)
Aquatic Race (?)


I dislike Dominant and Magical


Racial niches B:

Innovative Race (leading the tech revolution, perhaps started it?)
Amphibious Race (perhaps aquatic normally but can survive on land because PCs
Flying/High-Altitutde Race
Populous Race, with crowded towns and huge families
Humans


Of course not every Niche needs a specific Race, the Flying race could be rather Populous, and the Humans could be Innovative for example

[Rama]

Personally I'd rather our racial niches be defined geographically, at last to start. Then other characteristics can be applied that make sense given the development of the species to their environment, rather than the other way around.

So in short, I think we should create the geography of the world before we even start looking at number/type of races that populate it.

[LordChaos13]

Hmm maybe your right.


I'm not the OP so I cant call for a vote but...
Unofficial vote stuff!
Geography in general:

So we are making a planet. Time to decide on various stuffs

Continents
How many Land masses do we want (meaning large bits of land, maybe some surrounding islands included but small islands) not a Continent but 1 tract of land that may be multiple continents wide like Europe, India, Asia can be walked across. Ignoring the Poles because they would be uninhabitable
For reference: Earth has 5 (Greenland and that general area, the Americas, Africa, Australia, Europe/asia/russia)
Do we have little bits and blobs as well? (example: Japan, indonesia and its surrounds...) Or is it just the large landmasses and maybe some islands broken off from that

[AgentofHellfire]

My votes go to:

--Haughty aristocratic race that either lacks magic or possesses a really inefficient way of using it.
--Humans
--Physically weak, low-population race that benefits from magic a lot. (Could overlap with LordChaos' "innovative race"), but has a huge stake in the fortunes of the lower-magic aristocrats.

EDIT: Right when I vote up some races... :smalltongue:

As far as continents go, then:

At least two continents should exist, along with a region that's sort of an amalgam of both. They should be reasonably close by to one another.

After that...maybe a third that's totally cut off from the other two, or at least was till a certain point?

[malonkey1]

Well, I can see "niches" based (veeeeeery) roughly on where the average member falls in the Myers-Briggs personality types, that could be filled easily without too much overlap, but we wouldn't necessarily want or need all of them.

Examples (using base PF races):


ESTJ, The Guardian (Dwarves): Traditionalist, loyal, and pragmatic. They are thebest race because they are resilient, determined, and they always go for the throat when solving problems. They are the worst race because they can get mired down in rules and traditions that prevent them from acting.
INTJ, the Scientist (Elves): Long-lived, reclusive, and sober. They are the best race because they can see step back and see how things develop, acting only when it makes sense. They are the worst race because their single-mindedness causes them to lack flexibility and improvisation.
ENTP, the Innovator (Gnomes): Clever, adaptable, and focused on action and new ideas. They are the best race because they don't often get mired in old ideas. They are the worst race because their constant attempts to find new ways of doing things often distracts them from simple solutions.
ENFP, the Inspirer (Half-elves): Idealistic go-getters with great interpersonal skills. They are the best race because they can befriend nearly anyone. They are the worst race because sometimes, they just talk too much.
ESFP, the Performer (Half-Orcs): Energetic, fun-loving, and always into adventure. They are the best race because they leap fearlessly into anything they attempt. They are the worst race because they thoughtlessly leap into anything they attempt.
ESTP, the Doer (Halflings): Curious, active and outgoing. They are the best race because their inquisitive nature helps them find new and interesting things. They are the worst race because many of those new and interesting things want to eat them.
The Everyman (Humans): They can be nearly anything and have a wide variety of personality types. They are the best race because they bring a lot of variety to the table. They are the worst race because that variety isn't always helpful, and is sometimes a hindrance.


Examples of possible races using this framework could include:


A wild, magically-potent race that lacks in physical strength, but makes up for it in charisma, creativity, and raw magical talent (ISFP, the Artist). Roughly analogous to Italian humanists of the renaissance that focused on improving the mind and spirit of man, and exploring it through art.
An imperialistic race that sees magic and martial force both as means to an end and nothing more, and ruhtlessly pursuing trade and/or military domination. Possibly prone to infighting, but very honorable and loyal to those who prove themselves. (ENTJ, the Executive) Analogous to Spain, Portugal, and Arabic cultures of the Renaissance.
A race of mechanical geniuses that use magic mostly to power their machines and devices, up to rudimentary steam-powered machines (but not on the level of Eberron...yet). They aren't afraid to try some complicated new of solving things, and when their plans implode, they're more concerned with picking up the shrapnel and analyzing it than they are deterred by failure. They don't give up on a new idea unless there's literally no way to work it. (ISTP, the Mechanic) Somewhat analogous to inventors and thinkers of the Renaissance, such as Da Vinci, Gutenburg, etc.

[Rama]

Here would be my main questions/suggested options for world environment:

1) What is the climate?
a. Temperate (current for us)
b. Frigid (ice age)
c. Tropical (Jurassic)

2) What is the land/sea ratio?
a. 90% sea (archipelagos/large islands but little to no continental mass)
b. 70% sea (combination of islands and two or three large continental masses)
c. 50% or less sea (mostly land with water bodies restricted to large lakes/small seas as opposed to oceans)

I think if we can answer those two questions, it gives us a good start on designing everything else.

[LordChaos13]

I'd honestly prefer a very Earth-based thing, so 1A 2B?

With all the variances between biomes of course, with deserts and rainforests etc.

[AgentofHellfire]

Well, if we're gunning for the Renaissance there only are two options.

1. Temperate
2. Either like Earth or 50% sea.

[Thunderfist12]

My votes have to be...

1)B
2)C

Edit

Imagine a world where heat is critical, where gunpowder is king, and where those who cling to those few sources of heat are those that survive. The world was once dominated by many strange, reptilian beasts that have long been trapped beneath the ice, waiting within their frozen prisons. Yet even these terrifying creatures are not the most dangerous of the world's threats...

Maugrim brought his sealskin coat closer to his skin, wrapping it tightly about him to shield himself from the fierce winds that shrieked through the glacial field. The evening snow was coming down harder than usual, and he knew that if he did not make it to the Colony soon, he would not survive the snowstorm this night would bring.

As he trudged through the ever-falling snow, now knee-deep, he nestled his revolvers into the folds of his fur coat. They were among his only friends left from his travel north of the Colony, all the others long deceased, buried beneath the snow in graves that would be forever sealed. He turned to check his back-holster for the musket that he kept beneath his coat at all times, so its powder would never waste. And that's when he saw it. A great shadow fell over him as it leapt, pulling him under the snow and carrying him away with it.

Even the musket that remained above the drift was buried in snow before the hour had passed. And no man in the Colony ever saw him again.

[malonkey1]

A.) I'd go with temperate, leaning a bit towards tropical; and the warmer, Mediterranean-esque areas should be heavily populated.

B.) Well, I'd actually like to see the world be divided into two opposite "super-continents" with numerous archipelagos between them. The residents of each continent see the resident of the other as "savages," (sort of an amusing take on how Europeans viewed American Natives.) Lots of ocean, but no more than 80%.

[Thunderfist12]

^2^ I finished my sample story.:smallbiggrin:

Not that I'm trying to persuade you or anything...

[AgentofHellfire]

^2^ I finished my sample story.:smallbiggrin:

Not that I'm trying to persuade you or anything...


Ooooh, gods, your story could work with my idea as well...although I may end up venturing outside the themes a bit with what I'm thinking, but enh.

Basically: Remember how I said there could be a haughty nonmagical race? They could be people of clockwork that can resist the cold.

[malonkey1]

^2^ I finished my sample story.:smallbiggrin:

Not that I'm trying to persuade you or anything...

Maugrim's name wouldn't be an NWN reference, would it?

[Thunderfist12]

Not at all. I've used that name for three of my D&D characters (allof which died from cold damage, ironically). It just sounds like a warrior's name.

By the way, what's NWN?

[Rama]

Thunderfist sold me.

I like 1) B and 2) C. For 2), it could be that the water is there but frozen and even built upon.

[BornValyrian]

I think a Temperate to Meditteranean climate would be good with 2-3 continents, one of which is a "new world" populated by "savages". As for racial niches, that Meyer-Briggs related to analogues of the cultures of the time sounded good.

[Thunderfist12]

Thunderfist sold me.

Join the dark side, we have short stories...:smallbiggrin:

[LordChaos13]

I dont like it.
It doesnt sound Renaissance to me, Inspired or not

It might be a small part of the world (like Russia. Russia existed then right? It existed before and after...) but not the entire thing.

[Rama]

It doesn't sound Italian renaissance, no. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.

The environment could be a direct driver of the technological development. Perhaps it wasn't this way a century ago? And magic alone hasn't been sufficient to keep people thriving.

[Thunderfist12]

Hold on, hold on... I'm about to make things five times easier for Tanuki.

Let me tally and see what we've got in the way of The World so far...

{table=head]Subject|A|B|C
Climate|2|2|1
Land/Sea Ratio|0|3|2
[/table]

I counted the "No more than 80%" vote as a vote for "B", since it's the closest thing. That okay?

Edit: I think I fixed the miscount. Sorry for the confusion.

[malonkey1]

Hold on, hold on... I'm about to make things five times easier for Tanuki.

Let me tally and see what we've got in the way of The World so far...

{table=head]Subject|A|B|C
Climate|2|2|1
Land/Sea Ratio|0|2|3
[/table]

I counted the "No more than 80%" vote as a vote for "C", since it's the closest thing. That okay?

Actually, I was closer to C (~70% water, still having oceans). And in respones to your earlier post, Maugrim (with that same spelling) was a villain in the game Neverwinter Nights, a Bioware game based off of D&D 3rd edition.

[Thunderfist12]

*facepalm*

I meant "B". I switched the two around on accident.

*second, much louder, facepalm*

Neverwinter Nights! I should have known! I didn't realize my own reference.

[Alexkubel]

A

C

I think that's temperate and 50%

[Thunderfist12]

So...

New count is:

{table=head]Subject| A | B | C |Total
Climate| 3 | 2 | 1 | 6
Land/Sea Ratio | 0 | 3 | 3 | 6
[/table]

[Tanuki Tales]

Since everyone seems to be ready for the next stage of voting...



Races! How many is too many?!



How many dominant races will the world/setting have?

We'll start voting once we have 10 suggested numbers!

[Thunderfist12]

That depends, do you mean

A)How many should it have, period, end of discussion,

B)How many races make the maximum,

C)How many races count as dominant, or

D)How many creatures with given racial traits, including monsters and uncommon races?

[Tanuki Tales]

That depends, do you mean

A)How many should it have, period, end of discussion,

B)How many races make the maximum,

C)How many races count as dominant, or

D)How many creatures with given racial traits, including monsters and uncommon races?

C.

We're currently voting on how many dominant races are present in this setting, i.e. those who would have empires, confederacies, kingdoms, etc. This doesn't preclude a setting where all the races are intermixed and things are divided by geography or culture, but we need to decide on how many "base races" we want.

[Thunderfist12]

And... my vote says five.

[zabbarot]

4 races sounds good

[LordChaos13]

I'd up that to 7, with maybe 2 per continent give or take 1?
Obviously 1 continent at least would have either a 3 or a 1.

...Wait would we count any New land natives to be dominant? They would dominate their continent but arent as Teched up as the colonizers

[Thunderfist12]

If they're core player races for the setting (not meaning from the rulebook), then yes.

What I mean is that, if they're common (and acceptable) enough to have PC's playing them, they are a dominant race.

[LordChaos13]

Oh so E) like D but not the Monsters

In that case bump the 7 up to a 10

[Thunderfist12]

:smalleek:

:eek:

That's a lot of races...

[BornValyrian]

I would say 5 or so major power races (say the Italians, the Spanish, etc.) and 2 to 3 "new world" races (the Aztecs, the Native Americans, etc.).

[Thunderfist12]

Too...

...many...

...races...

*faint*

[Sabeki]

^ agreed! I also like that idea.
@V: the post above yours.

[Thunderfist12]

You mean the one above mine or just too many races as a general idea?

[LordChaos13]

It's really not. Look at how many different cultures where in Europe alone, not counting the muslims

The HRE itself could easily be 3-4 races combined that are only mildly represented among the other nations on the continent

[Thunderfist12]

I know, but... I'm kind of used to five races, maximum, usually three or four. I must have race number OCD or something.:smallbiggrin:

[LordChaos13]

Actually this brings up an interesting question:

How BIG should we make our setting? Most setting end up with a Great Britain-sized place or so it seems, but the Renaissance brings to mind big things, all of Europe and expanding out into a new continent, all new things to study and so on

[Thunderfist12]

Probably the size of the Eastern Hemisphere, plus maybe a bit of the other side. Or the entire globe, if that's what we're aiming for.

[Tanuki Tales]

Just throwing this out there:

We could have 1 race per major area and then further break that up into "sub-races" based on culture and geography.

Also, there's nothing wrong with including monsters in the "base races". We would just need to adjust them accordingly compared to the other, weaker ones (aka, decide how we'd handle monster PCs).


Here's a running tally of suggestions (because I'm a bit busy to copy/paste a table right this second):

- 5 races
- 4 races
- 10 races (divided up per continent)
- 7-8 races (5 major civilized powers, 2 to 3 major uncivilized powers)


I'm also of the mind of plotting out an entire world here. It's something I've always personally wanted to do, but never achieved because of my own idiosyncrasies and the burden of that.


Also, keep in mind that this thread is more for establishing the bare bones. I had planned to open a more generalized world-building thread once we had voted things up.

[LordChaos13]

Then 10 PC races would definitely fit
3 for the New World, 2 in several kingdoms (some purely A, some purely B others integrated) bordering the coast leading to the New World, 3 scattered everywhere around central Europe (and maybe into the coast kingdoms but a definite minority), 1 in Mother Russia and the fading Muslim-analogue that was once great but fell into decadence and passed all it's knowledge onto the younger races to the north of them

Thats just the Americas, Europe and the tip of Africa. each race could have a couple million in population without stretching credulity for renaissance-era development. Not even touching Asia or India

[Thunderfist12]

...I'm confused now. Is this Inspired By or Alternate History?

[LordChaos13]

Inspired By
There isn't a distinct "Ok this is where it split off and all these races appeared" but since it is Inspired I'm using analogues to get my point across

Like Russia, a very cold harsh land that seems to love it's people and hasnt been conquered filled with large strong men...
How is that not an orc variant with Druid (or a homebrew druid-like class idk) as a favoured class?

[Thunderfist12]

... because Russian culture is nothing like orc culture. It seems more... well, there's no real race analogue for it.

[LordChaos13]

Orcs arent civilized, plus we are supposed to be making each race more alien and unique right? That would probably start by throwing out Orcs = uncivilized barbarians.


Their physical traits are:
Green
Bigger than human average
Tough skin
Strong


An average Russians physical traits are:
Hairy
Bigger than human average
Tough skin
Strong

[Thunderfist12]

...

Fair enough.

[AgentofHellfire]

My own vote, for race numbers?

2. Maybe 3.

I kind of want to see how a setting like that would work. :smalltongue:

[Tanuki Tales]

I've personally always wanted to approach Orcs similar to Tolkien's original image of them, i.e. dark skinned and shaped more like great apes. The whole green skin and pig tusk look is more a legacy thing for DnD than anything else.

Edit:

Also, can we please steer clear of comparing fantasy races to actual nationalities/ethnicities? It's alright to say, "ok, this is what real world culture X was like, so let's make Fantasy race Y like them", but I don't think "hey, real world culture X is like Fantasy race Y, so let's make Fantasy race Y like them" will lead us anywhere good, except a thread lock.

[Thunderfist12]

I would know how little to no races works. I did a no-magic, 100% mundane, E6 setting with all humans before.

It wasn't bad at all, especially considering that I added in bonus features for the home region, and restricted human bonus feat/skills to region (rather than any feat and one class skill). This enhanced cultural flavors, and my players really seemed to like it.

Edit: Woohoo! first on page 8!

[LordChaos13]

Sorry maybe I shouldnt have used a monstrous race as that example. Or an example at all really.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, Teh races.
Why did you want 10 numbers OP? Why not 5 numbers so there is some actual variance beyond 'alright we need 10...suggest my choice +/-1!

[Tanuki Tales]

Sorry maybe I shouldnt have used a monstrous race as that example. Or an example at all really.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, Teh races.
Why did you want 10 numbers OP? Why not 5 numbers so there is some actual variance beyond 'alright we need 10...suggest my choice +/-1!

10 just felt like a good base pool, along with the fact that people don't have to do as such. I was expecting things like "One race", "One race, but with 5 distinct sub-cultures", etc. Basically qualifiers and addendum that specialize a concept beyond just a flat number.

[Benthesquid]

I'm actually gonna go a different direction, and say "One race."

Let's do something a little different, and concentrate on separate cultures, not races.

[Thunderfist12]

^^Yes, this. Can I vote for this, while still suggesting four to get it out there?

[Thunderfist12]

Also, technically for the purpose of magic-level, if alchemy works and other magic doesn't exist, that's still a magic level. Meanning 100% no-magic stuff is non-alchemical.

The point is, if we used only alchemy as magic, it would still be Renaissance Arcane. Just throwing that out there, because it's a fact. No other reason, really.

[AgentofHellfire]

I'm actually gonna go a different direction, and say "One race."

Let's do something a little different, and concentrate on separate cultures, not races.


See, I would almost say one, but I feel like the culture thing is something I know about and have done/seen done, whereas a culture thing that stresses their differences in the battle between them and this one other race from which they hugely diverge would be even more fun.

So two. Let's do two! :smallsmile:

[Plerumque]

Yeah, I think one to three would be better than having a ton of races occupying every possible niche.

[LordChaos13]

Also, technically for the purpose of magic-level, if alchemy works and other magic doesn't exist, that's still a magic level. Meanning 100% no-magic stuff is non-alchemical.

The point is, if we used only alchemy as magic, it would still be Renaissance Arcane. Just throwing that out there, because it's a fact. No other reason, really.

Can I point out that Alchemy works IN REALITY.
People seem to think Chemisty and Alchemistry are different but it really isnt. The only differences is one has the greek word for 'the' in front of it and is a couple hundred years behind tech wise

[Benthesquid]

Can I point out that Alchemy works IN REALITY.
People seem to think Chemisty and Alchemistry are different but it really isnt. The only differences is one has the greek word for 'the' in front of it and is a couple hundred years behind tech wise

Ehhhh... (does little back-and-forth wobbly motion with hand).

Alchemy dealt with a lot of the same questions as modern chemistry, but it's not the same discipline. Among other matters (IE the lack of a solid scientific method which is really above and beyond the issues of individual advancements what separates modern science from previous ways of looking at the world), alchemy had a lot more mysticism involved. For example, if you look beyond the obvious properties of the Philosopher's Stone (woo, lead into gold!) there's strong indications that a lot of alchemists viewed the process as metaphorical for a spiritual transmutation.

Edit: Also, it's the Arabic word for the appended on the front.

[malonkey1]

My view is that we have about 3 major races, each with a few prominent subraces/ethnicities analogous to real ethnicities, and a few (about 4) minority races, which could be considered to resemble nondescript "foreign cultures," as foreign cultures might be seen through the eyes of Renaissance-era Europeans (minus some of the racism, of course).

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Race Amounts
5 races
4 races
10 races (divided up per continent)
7-8 races (5 major civilized powers, 2 to 3 major uncivilized powers)
1 race (separate cultures)
2 races
One to three
7 races (3 major, 4 minor)
One race per major area, with multiple "sub-races" based on culture and geography[/table]

I felt like adding my own idea for this particular round, so that brings us to nine.

[tortor]

Tanuki!!
Can we get an update to the nice big post up top to give people a heads up about was has been decided and what we are now voting on? When will the Racial Numbers Voting start? Have I told you that you are awesome today? No? You're awesome~

[AgentofHellfire]

Wait...don't "Two" and "one" overlap with "one to three"?

[LordChaos13]

I suggest 200 races
Just to give us the last one to go over the top

[Sabeki]

I dislike 'civilized races' as the other three. What about 'new races'? Keeps with the New X theme.

[Plerumque]

Perhaps put '3' in place of 'one to three', as the other two possibilities are already covered.

[Tanuki Tales]

The difference between 1, 2, 3 and one to three is that the former are concrete while the latter is variable.

Anyways, anyone have issue with accepting Chaos' second suggestion of 200 so we can start voting?

[Shyftir]

I was going to suggest:
One dominant race, a few fading races and every region has a strong mechanical flavor. The place you are from is way more important than your appearance.

[RustedKitsune]

[Disregard Post, browser did not show all the new pages of discussion. will edit this post when I've caught up]

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Race Amounts|Votes
5 races|0
4 races|0
10 races (divided up per continent)|0
7-8 races (5 major civilized powers, 2 to 3 major uncivilized powers)|0
1 race (separate cultures)|0
2 races|0
One to three|0
7 races (3 major, 4 minor)|0
One race per major area, with multiple "sub-races" based on culture and geography|0
One dominant race broken into regional/cultural "sub-races" with a few fading races|0[/table]

And we have our ten! Like last time, you'll get five votes to cast, none of which may be for the same thing. Since two to three days seems to be a sweet spot for voting in this thread, voting will remain open till 11:59 pm EST on the 26th!

[AgentofHellfire]

Well, with five votes:

2 races (obviously)
1 race (separate cultures)
Seven races (three major, four minor)
One to three
One dominant race broken up into regional/cultural subraces with a few fading races.

[Shyftir]

One dominant race broken up into regional/cultural subraces with a few fading races.
1 race (separate cultures)
2 races
One to three
One race per major area, with multiple "sub-races" based on culture and geography

[Plerumque]

One race
Two races
One to three races
One dominant race with a few fading races
Seven races (three major, four minor)

[Benthesquid]

One race.
One to three races.
One dominant race with a few fading subraces.
Abstain
Abstain

[BornValyrian]

7-8 races: 4-5 old world, 2-3 new world
7 races (3 major, 4 minor)
1 race per major area with multiple sub-races based on culture/geography
10 races divided by continent
Abstain the last

[Thunderfist12]

1 dominant race, regional subraces, some fading races.
1 race, separate cultures
2 races
4 races
1 race/region, sub-races for culture

[RustedKitsune]

7 races (3 major, 4 minor)
7-8 races
10 races
Abstain
Abstain

[starwoof]

7-8 races
7 races
10 races
5 races
abstain

Because I like more more than I like less.

[tortor]

7-8 races (5 major civilized powers, 2 to 3 major uncivilized powers)
That is all.

[malonkey1]

5 races
10 (split by continent)
7-8 races (5 major civilized powers, 2 to 3 major uncivilized powers)
7 races (3 major, 4 minor)
One dominant race broken into regional/cultural "sub-races" with a few fading races


Also, First on page 9 get!

[Rama]

I vote:

1. One dominant race broken into regional/cultural "sub-races" with a few fading races
2. 7 races (3 major, 4 minor)
3. 7-8 races (5 major civilized powers, 2 to 3 major uncivilized powers)
4. 10 races (divided up per continent)
5. 1 race (separate cultures)

[Sabeki]

1 race, different cultures.
8 races.
Abstain
Abstain
Abstain

[LordChaos13]

1. 10 Races
2. 7-8 races
3. 7 races (3 major, 4 minor)
4. Abstain
5. Abstain

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Race Amounts|Votes
5 races|2
4 races|1
10 races (divided up per continent)|6
7-8 races (5 major civilized powers, 2 to 3 major uncivilized powers)|8
1 race (separate cultures)|7
2 races|4
One to three|4
7 races (3 major, 4 minor)|8
One race per major area, with multiple "sub-races" based on culture and geography|3
One dominant race broken into regional/cultural "sub-races" with a few fading races|7[/table]

Votes tallied to here!

[Ajadea]

One dominant race broken into regional/cultural "sub-races" with a few fading races
One to three
1 race (separate cultures)
4 races
7 races (3 major, 4 minor)

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Race Amounts|Votes
5 races|2
4 races|2
10 races (divided up per continent)|6
7-8 races (5 major civilized powers, 2 to 3 major uncivilized powers)|8
1 race (separate cultures)|8
2 races|4
One to three|5
7 races (3 major, 4 minor)|9
One race per major area, with multiple "sub-races" based on culture and geography|3
One dominant race broken into regional/cultural "sub-races" with a few fading races|8[/table]


Votes tallied to here.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



I had an idea the other day that I wanted to throw out for discussion. We're still a bit away from the part of setting development where this would be actually discussed and be relevant, but it was something to mull over:

What if we broke the ecology of the world into being either "natural" or "unnatural". "Natural" things would be native to the world we're building and fit in to the greater picture of its life web. "Unnatural" things would be invaders and interlopers from a kind of parasitic adjacent plane. Basically it's a combination of the Astral Plane, Dal Quor/Xoriat from Eberron and the realm of Fey and is kind of an expy of the Warp from Warhammer 40k or the Far Realm.

Most settings tend to do a standard planar set up (albeit if presented somewhat uniquely or in a new fashion), and I thought that, since we're trying to take this setting into new and unique directions, it might be neat to try and condense as many of the classic concepts together and breath new life into them. Also, since we're so far looking at a European slant for this, playing up that the "dark things" that PCs are meant to fight as based on old world Fey/Faerie/Fair Folk/etc. lore might be an interesting way to take things.

Like how Rokugan did the Shadowlands.

[Rama]

Something kinda like Rifts? That could be interesting.

[Tanuki Tales]

Something kinda like Rifts? That could be interesting.

Which Rifts? The MMO or the table top game?

And since Magic was being discussed not so long ago, let me test the waters about something else before we get to the actual vote:

What's everyone's opinion on the Magical Christmas Tree Effect?

[3WhiteFox3]

1. One Race (Seperate Cultures)
2. One Race (Regional/Cultural Subraces with fading races)
3. 10 Races
4. One to Three Races
5. 7 Races (3 Major, 4 Minor)


Which Rifts? The MMO or the table top game?

And since Magic was being discussed not so long ago, let me test the waters about something else before we get to the actual vote:

What's everyone's opinion on the Magical Christmas Tree Effect?

I don't normally hate the MCTE (well, not too much) but I feel that for this setting Magic Items should be both plentiful and unique; use them to give the world a unique flavor and not just to plug in the numbers for your build.

My personal preference is to make the straight numbers a part of building your character and use magical items to give your character a unique feel. I'd especially like a magic item system that can be used to flexibly create magical items, to emphasize invention and creativity that, in my opinion, really defines the Renaissance.