3.5 wizard design, for real life

[WarKitty]

So I've decided that my first wish is going to be "the power of a 20th level D&D generalist wizard, without any other alterations to my life or circumstances, matching the character sheet I will draw up." So what should I put on that character sheet? Let's assume for the moment that we're using my RL stats, whatever they are.

I'm assuming it's going to be heavy on crafting feats, preferably with some way to avoid paying xp for them. What else?

Edit: I decided to make it a PF wizard, so as to avoid xp loss on crafting.

[Epsilon Rose]

If you're making that sort of wish, why not just ask for salient divine magic?

[WarKitty]

If you're making that sort of wish, why not just ask for salient divine magic?

More fun this way.

[Epsilon Rose]

More fun this way.

Fair enough.

Edit: In that case, I'd definitely pick up some form of long-term shape-shifting and/or include a racial component to the wish, because being whatever you want sounds like fun.

[Lord Haart]

So I've decided that my first wish is going to be "the power of a 20th level D&D generalist wizard, without any other alterations to my life or circumstances, matching the character sheet I will draw up." So what should I put on that character sheet? Let's assume for the moment that we're using my RL stats, whatever they are.
Have fun being unable to cast spells of higher than fourth or fifth (sixth at best) circle!

On that matter, don't forget to load on Spell Mastery hard. The way you lay out the deal, it doesn't come with a spellbook ready, and those are kinda hard to obtain on modern Earth.

Honestly, i'd rather suggest you be a psion.

[SoraWolf7]

If you want just magic for Real Life, get first level spells. First level spells can break the world when used right. I swear Rasputin had Charm Person and Cure Light Wounds, both level 1 spells.

So if you make it so you can build some awesome stuff that lets you discreetly amass wealth or power, go for it. I'd say stick with Divination focus to fix bets on horse races or blackjack tables that are ready to go.

Or you could turn into a Lich and then hold the world ransom. Your choice of moral path here.

[WarKitty]

Have fun being unable to cast spells of higher than fourth or fifth (sixth at best) circle!

On that matter, don't forget to load on Spell Mastery hard. The way you lay out the deal, it doesn't come with a spellbook ready, and those are kinda hard to obtain on modern Earth.

Honestly, i'd rather suggest you be a psion.

It was a three wishes deal. Wishes 2 and 3 were a full spellbook and a tome of intellect +5. So I already got that covered! Follow it up soon after with crafting a spell component pouch. So I'll need whatever skills are there.

Next question: How do I get the money for crafting?

Edited to account for monetary issues

[Segev]

Money for crafting? Wall of Iron has you covered. Do you know how much money you can make selling pure iron in large blocks to foundries?

Failing that, open up the "Wacky Waldo's Wizardly Deliveries!" service. Teleport can get anything anywhere in no time flat. Sell your services to the highest bidder, considering you can do X Teleports per day, and you have to factor in getting TO them as well. There ARE people who will pay enormous sums just to get something from point A to point B now. If you're willing to get into morally and ethically challenged ground, the ability to pop up anywhere with anything you can carry - possibly without knowing what it is you hold - can be worth even more. But seriously, just the LEGITIMATE services this can provide would make you wealthy very fast.

Getting just enough to start crafting, make items that have Unseen Servants tied to them, and sell those. Invisible extra sets of hands to fetch, carry, and perform mundane tasks? Those will sell magnificently well. Just imagine: "It does the dishes, fixes meals, sews torn seams, cleans your room, washes your car, does your laundry, and provides an extra set of hands!"

And as of yet, the NFL and other sports leagues lack rules against magical buffs: Permanencied Enlarge Person would get you a fair chunk of change.

[WarKitty]

Money for crafting? Wall of Iron has you covered. Do you know how much money you can make selling pure iron in large blocks to foundries?

Failing that, open up the "Wacky Waldo's Wizardly Deliveries!" service. Teleport can get anything anywhere in no time flat. Sell your services to the highest bidder, considering you can do X Teleports per day, and you have to factor in getting TO them as well. There ARE people who will pay enormous sums just to get something from point A to point B now. If you're willing to get into morally and ethically challenged ground, the ability to pop up anywhere with anything you can carry - possibly without knowing what it is you hold - can be worth even more. But seriously, just the LEGITIMATE services this can provide would make you wealthy very fast.

Getting just enough to start crafting, make items that have Unseen Servants tied to them, and sell those. Invisible extra sets of hands to fetch, carry, and perform mundane tasks? Those will sell magnificently well. Just imagine: "It does the dishes, fixes meals, sews torn seams, cleans your room, washes your car, does your laundry, and provides an extra set of hands!"

And as of yet, the NFL and other sports leagues lack rules against magical buffs: Permanencied Enlarge Person would get you a fair chunk of change.

Hmmm...let's suppose for the sake of the experiment that I want to have a fairly normal life. That means no obvious magic. Here's some of my ideas:

- Cleaning service, especially for expensive items. Prestidigitation means you can work very quickly and without the risk of damaging items. As a PF cantrip you can cast it as often as you want. Add mending as needed.
- Magic show - this should be obvious, as long as you don't do anything too out there.
- "Resale" business. Mundane items created with various spells. Pick up and mend trash as well.
- Detective. Again, just don't do anything too out there - but normal people don't have protection from divination.
- Treasure hunting. Combine divination with the appropriate protective spells and teleportation abilities.
- Home renovation. Again, mostly doable with prestidigitation and mending. Add a few unseen servants to do things like painting.

My only problem with wall of iron: iron doesn't exactly chop up easily. I didn't wish for money or land in any of this, and I don't want the FBI or MIB or whoever on my tail!

[TheStranger]

Money is ridiculously easy. Prestidigitation/mage hand + roulette/craps = win. Do it in a few different places over a period of time, and walk away as soon as you have enough to live comfortably off the interest. Then you can grow your fortune like normal rich people, by investing it.

Not legal, but I can't see how you'd get caught.

[Lord Haart]

Not legal, but I can't see how you'd get caught.

By a house that doesn't permit its players, even most superstituous ones, to flail around their hands and chant their spells in exact same manner each time they are about to win? Sure, it isn't that probable, but try it enough times and your chances are pretty funny. Yet another reason to go Psion (or take Still and Silent), i guess.

[Seer_of_Heart]

Do you have to be a wizard 20 or simply a wizard who is 20th level? I'd also suggest being a 3.5 wizard because of better spells. Just use a wish to get the focus needed for shapechange and shapechange into a zodar whenever you want for unlimited free wishes (free money, the majority of spells free, free magic items and more!).

[Epsilon Rose]

Not legal, but I can't see how you'd get caught.

They can look at your reactions. If your cheating, you won't be as surprised and your heart rate won't change in the same way. It's even worse if casting causes you to look distracted.

[WarKitty]

Additional note: RL person is somewhere between NG and CG. Not terribly concerned if everything's technically legal, but I do want to avoid stealing from or scamming anyone who doesn't deserve it.

That said, a business relieving robbers and pirates of their gains might be lucrative...

But still and silent spell would be useful, or at least metamagic rods of the same.

[Epsilon Rose]

With judicious use of divination, you could make a killing on the stock market. Even better, if you put in a bit more effort, you could actually help people and make the world slightly better while your doing it.

[Rubik]

I'd want to be a psion, then bilk my way into being insanely high level through Gate/Fusion/Astral Seed shenanigans with the tarrasque and the like (eventually culminating in an eventual 130 HD via this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16123163#post16123163)). It's alright if gestalt isn't allowed, though I'd be a few illithid savant levels behind.

I'd have every psionic power, every spell, and every useful ability I could scrounge up, going so far as to take ranks in Knowledge: 3.P D&D and Craft: Character Build to pick up all the best stuff, if necessary.

Metagaming: It's not just for out of character anymore!

[WarKitty]

With judicious use of divination, you could make a killing on the stock market. Even better, if you put in a bit more effort, you could actually help people and make the world slightly better while your doing it.

Could probably just do a lottery to start. I'm sure there's something in there that'll let you pick the winning numbers.

[ArcturusV]

By a house that doesn't permit its players, even most superstituous ones, to flail around their hands and chant their spells in exact same manner each time they are about to win? Sure, it isn't that probable, but try it enough times and your chances are pretty funny. Yet another reason to go Psion (or take Still and Silent), i guess.

That and Casinos have been known in history to go take someone to the alley out back, beat the **** out of them, and leave them penniless even if they weren't cheating (counting cards: Not cheating. Do it in blackjack, expect the Pit Boss to have a few 'words' with you).

So even if you win a lot without something overtly obvious, like Stilled, Silent Spells or Psionics, still expect that if you're going to a casino to make a bankroll to live off of, someone is gonna go try to bust your kneecaps and they're not going to pay out.

If you try to hustle a bunch of casinos for smaller amounts, expect that they will figure out who you are and you'll be up on the FBI Most Wanted list.

So much easier to use your talents for perfectly sane, legal, and less attention drawing means. Even if that's merely using real illusions to become a Stage Magician (Thus also built in deniability), and just do shows in those same Vegas casinos for a ton of legal cash.

[Coidzor]

That and Casinos have been known in history to go take someone to the alley out back, beat the **** out of them, and leave them penniless even if they weren't cheating (counting cards: Not cheating. Do it in blackjack, expect the Pit Boss to have a few 'words' with you).

So even if you win a lot without something overtly obvious, like Stilled, Silent Spells or Psionics, still expect that if you're going to a casino to make a bankroll to live off of, someone is gonna go try to bust your kneecaps and they're not going to pay out.

If you try to hustle a bunch of casinos for smaller amounts, expect that they will figure out who you are and you'll be up on the FBI Most Wanted list.

Um. Alter Self. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm) 200 minutes with one casting. 400 minutes with a simple extend. Going Pathfinder makes it a measly 40 minutes with extend, sure, but you're seriously underestimating wizardly capabilities here.

Disguise Self (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/disguise-self) works just fine though as well, and can be extended to the full 400 minutes even with PF as the base.

They don't kill everyone who wins small, otherwise they'd never be able to keep up their business. And, hey, I imagine trying to kill her would take the kiddie gloves off anyway.

[ArcturusV]

A +10 bonus to disguise checks. Considering it's him in real life, he probably wouldn't have more than maybe a +12 total or something. Not sure, but I think that's a safe guess.

So he has a +12 disguise using Alter Self, which totals out to 13-22.

Average security crew is trained to deal with people who are sneaking past, may have altered their appearance, etc. So presume they probably have something like a 12 Wisdom for a +1 modifier. Training to be in that profession, particularly in Vegas where they have top notch security for the most part, means they probably have something like +6 ranks in Spot, maybe Skill Focus in Spot as that's very important to their jobs, for a +9 total. Add in the security devices, cameras, etc, and people monitoring them for another +2 (Tools) and +2 (Aided).

Thus meaning that the Security has, even as just a level 2, a +1 advantage to see through the disguise. So totally random if he'll be detected. And this is just using level 2 NPCs for guards... not the probably level 4-6 that they'd be as they are drawn from ex-law enforcement, soldiers, etc, like a lot are.

[Epsilon Rose]

Could probably just do a lottery to start. I'm sure there's something in there that'll let you pick the winning numbers.

If there's a divination spell that gives binary answers (yes/no, weal/woe) you can determine numbers by halves, either a single digit or group of digits at a time (e.g. Are the first three digits greater than 500 > greater than 250>...) it's actually pretty efficient.

[Fouredged Sword]

A few castings of make whole will put you at the center of the art restoration world. You could ask literal millions for your ability to perfectly restore artwork from most damage short of fire.

[WarKitty]

That and Casinos have been known in history to go take someone to the alley out back, beat the **** out of them, and leave them penniless even if they weren't cheating (counting cards: Not cheating. Do it in blackjack, expect the Pit Boss to have a few 'words' with you).

So even if you win a lot without something overtly obvious, like Stilled, Silent Spells or Psionics, still expect that if you're going to a casino to make a bankroll to live off of, someone is gonna go try to bust your kneecaps and they're not going to pay out.

If you try to hustle a bunch of casinos for smaller amounts, expect that they will figure out who you are and you'll be up on the FBI Most Wanted list.

So much easier to use your talents for perfectly sane, legal, and less attention drawing means. Even if that's merely using real illusions to become a Stage Magician (Thus also built in deniability), and just do shows in those same Vegas casinos for a ton of legal cash.

More likely it would be better to do a single "lucky" jackpot. Hence why I was thinking lottery rather than casino - a single big win is much easier to chalk up to luck if you leave it at that. Take the money and use it to set up a business.

[WarKitty]

A +10 bonus to disguise checks. Considering it's him in real life, he probably wouldn't have more than maybe a +12 total or something. Not sure, but I think that's a safe guess.

So he has a +12 disguise using Alter Self, which totals out to 13-22.

Average security crew is trained to deal with people who are sneaking past, may have altered their appearance, etc. So presume they probably have something like a 12 Wisdom for a +1 modifier. Training to be in that profession, particularly in Vegas where they have top notch security for the most part, means they probably have something like +6 ranks in Spot, maybe Skill Focus in Spot as that's very important to their jobs, for a +9 total. Add in the security devices, cameras, etc, and people monitoring them for another +2 (Tools) and +2 (Aided).

Thus meaning that the Security has, even as just a level 2, a +1 advantage to see through the disguise. So totally random if he'll be detected. And this is just using level 2 NPCs for guards... not the probably level 4-6 that they'd be as they are drawn from ex-law enforcement, soldiers, etc, like a lot are.

(1) minor nitpick - Kitty is female.
(2) My estimated stats, let's say Cha is a 12 or 13.
(3) Alter self or polymorph are available here. As they are not illusions the spot won't matter.

[John Longarrow]

ArcturusV

I think you've been watching too many movies. Legitimate casino's don't act like criminals. Too much money at steak. If they get caught even once, they lose their license. There goes a few hundred MILLION over a couple thousand... NOT a good idea, and doesn't happen in Vegas.

WarKitty

Invisibility + flight and a camera. Divine where some celeb is going to be. Teleport local, fly to where they are invisibly, and snap away! BIG money in getting impossible shots as a pavaratzi...

[ArcturusV]

Better plan I'd think.

But I suppose if I had that sort of cosmic power I'd try to keep low key too. But I'd enjoy using it too much to avoid using it, period. I suppose part of my answer just shows my own interests, as I latched onto Illusions and Entertainment, which sounds fun to me. Gives me an excuse to practice the art in plain sight with no one asking awkward questions that may lead to "Kidnap and autopsy that guy!" down the line.

Which would be a real concern somewhere I'd want to deal with. Plausible deniability so that I can have my fun without having people after me. Even if I could be a hyper optimized wizard who is nigh untouchable I wouldn't want to live my life in that sort of way where I'm sitting in an Astral Plane subsisting on bland food and water I conjured up, afraid to do anything.

And eventually I'd want to use it for the betterment of things around me. So maybe establishing myself as something people dismiss or chalk up to "SCIENCE" magic so I can still practice openly...

Hmm...

[Jack_Simth]

I'd be more inclined for a (Cloistered) Cleric build, honestly. Probably going into Dweomerkeeper (Complete Divine Web Enhancement) (for the Supernatural Spell, for XP and GP free Miracles... which can get you Simulacrums... which can get you free Wishes on a daily basis; three Miracles to get Simulacrums of advanced Solars every day. Each Simulacrum you get can give you a spell-like Wish once per day). Plus that way: No spellbook dependency. If you somehow lose all your stuff (like, say, you're subject to a point blank nuking and come back via a Clone you prepared earlier), you can just start anew. Make yourself, say, an Elan for your base creature (for the lack of an age limit), and you're good to go.

Also make a few Archons, change their appearance a bit via Veil, and have them run your delivery service.

[Epsilon Rose]

I'd be more inclined for a (Cloistered) Cleric build, honestly. Probably going into Dweomerkeeper (Complete Divine Web Enhancement) (for the Supernatural Spell, for XP and GP free Miracles... which can get you Simulacrums... which can get you free Wishes on a daily basis; three Miracles to get Simulacrums of advanced Solars every day. Each Simulacrum you get can give you a spell-like Wish once per day). Plus that way: No spellbook dependency. If you somehow lose all your stuff (like, say, you're subject to a point blank nuking and come back via a Clone you prepared earlier), you can just start anew. Make yourself, say, an Elan for your base creature (for the lack of an age limit), and you're good to go.

Also make a few Archons, change their appearance a bit via Veil, and have them run your delivery service.


Would you want cloistered cleric or StP Erudite?

[Jack_Simth]

Would you want cloistered cleric or StP Erudite?
Cloistered Cleric. StP Erudite can't get past XP components.

[WarKitty]

I'd be more inclined for a (Cloistered) Cleric build, honestly. Probably going into Dweomerkeeper (Complete Divine Web Enhancement) (for the Supernatural Spell, for XP and GP free Miracles... which can get you Simulacrums... which can get you free Wishes on a daily basis; three Miracles to get Simulacrums of advanced Solars every day. Each Simulacrum you get can give you a spell-like Wish once per day). Plus that way: No spellbook dependency. If you somehow lose all your stuff (like, say, you're subject to a point blank nuking and come back via a Clone you prepared earlier), you can just start anew. Make yourself, say, an Elan for your base creature (for the lack of an age limit), and you're good to go.

Also make a few Archons, change their appearance a bit via Veil, and have them run your delivery service.

It would definitely get around the spellbook problem. I'd be a bit worried about deities though, given the assumed absence of D&D deities in the real world. Inserting a wizard into our world requires less messing with reality.

Edit: Also, int is my stat much more than wis is.

[John Longarrow]

Jack_Simth

If you are going to make simulacrums, may as well get succubi and open an escort service where it is legal. "Anyone your heart desires for $10,000 per day". Plus if you are evil, they can be very charming to keep repeat business. They also avoid the whole "How are you TELEPORTING" question...

[Epsilon Rose]

Cloistered Cleric. StP Erudite can't get past XP components.

If you use PF crafting, there are no xp components.

[Rubik]

I'd create some spell traps to fix a lot of the world's problems. Overpopulation, food and energy shortages, weather disasters, etc. Then once things are fairly stable and self-sustaining, I'd research an epic spell that would either create or seek out a world of my devising, such as an Alternate Universe™ Harry Potter world, Plane Shift there, and then go and live out awesome stories with various characters of interest.

Of course, I'd have tons of bodies in a hive mind setup, so I could remain on Earth to keep an eye on things here, too.

But whatever happens, I do NOT want to take over. Far too much responsibility for my taste. That doesn't mean I won't help people as much as I reasonably can, however.

[Xaktsaroth]

I think being an Unseen Seer would be neat in an RL setting.

You know everyones secrets, or are an awesome "finder" of lost objects(Art, people, artifacts, languages, etc....)

Or, barring that.

Go Psi Gish and be a superhero.

Cuz power fantasy's are awesome! :D

[Forrestfire]

I'd think you'd rather have Dweomerkeeper instead of a straight wizard, and use Supernatural Spell wish to do whatever you feel like.

The first casting, of course, getting you a Crafted Contingent word of recall and true resurrection. Then you buff up and start using genesis to make hiding places, before astral projecting back onto earth.

Also, the eidetic wizard ACF from dragon trades your familiar for not needing a spellbook—you'd just know all the spells in your "book" and can add new ones through expensive incenses.


... And once you're settled in as the secret immortal king of the world, start breaking out the self-resetting traps of ice assassins of mindraped rudimentary intelligence shadesteel golems :smallamused:

[elonin]

Even if casino workers don't know what spells are or what casting looks like, they do know when someone is winning more than they should. There was a story about a college experiment to count cards and even though they were never directly found they were given the boot. For being too lucky.

[Rubik]

I'd think you'd rather have Dweomerkeeper instead of a straight wizard, and use Supernatural Spell wish to do whatever you feel like.You'd still have to pay the XP cost, y'know.

[Forrestfire]

You'd still have to pay the XP cost, y'know.

You actually don't:


Supernatural Spell (Su): At 4th level, the
dweomerkeeper is so attuned to the fabric of magic
that she can manifest spell effects with almost no effort
whatsoever. Once per day as a standard action, she can
use any one spell with a casting time of up to 1 standard
action as a supernatural ability. The spell chosen must
be one that is currently available to the dweomerkeeper
(that is, one that she has prepared or that she
knows and has a spell slot of the appropriate level available
to cast), but she can decide at the moment of casting
to use this ability. The spell functions as it normally
would and is expended normally, but the dweomerkeeper
does not require any components, does not provoke
attacks of opportunity, and ignores the target’s
spell resistance, just as if she were using a supernatural
ability instead of a spell. At every even-numbered level
after the 4th, the dweomerkeeper gains one additional
use of this ability per day.


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a

[Blueiji]

Inserting a wizard into our world requires less messing with reality.

There's something I never thought I would hear. :smallbiggrin:

[Rubik]

You actually don't:



http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a...And where in there do you see "does not pay XP costs"?

Nowhere in here does it say so. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#supernaturalAbilities)

[Forrestfire]

...And where in there do you see "does not pay XP costs"?

Nowhere in here does it say so. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#supernaturalAbilities)

Right in the ability, where it says "the dweomerkeeper does not require any components." Exp costs are components (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#components).

[John Longarrow]

Even if casino workers don't know what spells are or what casting looks like, they do know when someone is winning more than they should. There was a story about a college experiment to count cards and even though they were never directly found they were given the boot. For being too lucky.

True, you can be booted for suspicious activity, but they can't take anything back from you unless they can prove you are cheating, then they throw you in jail.

[Rubik]

Right in the ability, where it says "the dweomerkeeper does not require any components." Exp costs are components (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#components).It's doubtful that was ever intended, but I suppose if you were going to break real life, you might as well break it as hard as you can.

[Jack_Simth]

If you use PF crafting, there are no xp components.
Yes, but PF also has other restrictions that 3.5 doesn't. Like the PF version of Wish can't make magic items.

Jack_Simth

If you are going to make simulacrums, may as well get succubi and open an escort service where it is legal. "Anyone your heart desires for $10,000 per day". Plus if you are evil, they can be very charming to keep repeat business. They also avoid the whole "How are you TELEPORTING" question...
Even if you're going that route, you want to stick with Solars. They've got the same Change Shape ability, almost as good Charisma, 20th level Cleric casting, and much better spell-like abilities and skills.

You teleport via mass-produced boots from your pet Solars. Or simple use of Greater Plane Shift (Spell Compendium).

[Forrestfire]

It's doubtful that was ever intended, but I suppose if you were going to break real life, you might as well break it as hard as you can.

That's the spirit! :smallamused::smallbiggrin:

I'm sure half of 3.5's stupidly good stuff wasn't intended. Doesn't make it any less fun for theoretical optimization :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

The real question is, how do you get around the sacrifice of a character level for fueling Sanctify the Wicked so you can make the world a better place?

[WarKitty]

The real question is, how do you get around the sacrifice of a character level for fueling Sanctify the Wicked so you can make the world a better place?

Alter self into angel. Summon a few elementals. Show up via teleport.

[Forrestfire]

The real question is, how do you get around the sacrifice of a character level for fueling Sanctify the Wicked so you can make the world a better place?

Ironically, Evil does the "forcibly making the world a better place" stuff better (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/mindrape--165/).

[Rubik]

Ironically, Evil does the "forcibly making the world a better place" stuff better (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/mindrape--165/).Right. Mindrape is less apt to kill the victim (as in, not at all), and it has far more uses for good people.

It's great for teaching people stuff, for instance.

[John Longarrow]

Jack_Simth,

The "How are you TELEPORTING" questions isn't in regards to game mechanincs. It is the question those guys in black suits will be asking you shortly before turn you over for disection.

If you know the game, it makes a lot of sense. If you are a real person, teleportation normally only exists on a television show or in the movies.

[Rubik]

Jack_Simth,

The "How are you TELEPORTING" questions isn't in regards to game mechanincs. It is the question those guys in black suits will be asking you shortly before turn you over for disection.

If you know the game, it makes a lot of sense. If you are a real person, teleportation normally only exists on a television show or in the movies.I imagine killing a nicely optimized T1 (or in my case, T-negative-a-few-dozen) character would be rather difficult. And keeping it dead would be truly impossible.

[Coidzor]

Alter self into angel. Summon a few elementals. Show up via teleport.

I figured the solar simulacrums *could* cast it, but they wouldn't be able to sacrifice a level to make it work. Though if they can cast it, that works, since you can easily reach the point of having 10 billion solars in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you have a fast-time demiplane or the like.


Ironically, Evil does the "forcibly making the world a better place" stuff better (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/mindrape--165/).

I suppose making it into a series of traps that one's solars were making and then taking with them then? Or is there a way to get your solar simulacrums to be making use of that?


Right. Mindrape is less apt to kill the victim (as in, not at all), and it has far more uses for good people.

It's great for teaching people stuff, for instance.

I never noticed a chance of death in Sanctify the Wicked. :smallconfused:

[Jack_Simth]

Jack_Simth,

The "How are you TELEPORTING" questions isn't in regards to game mechanincs. It is the question those guys in black suits will be asking you shortly before turn you over for disection.Oh, then that's easy:

If it actually comes to that: I'm not the one doing it. It's my mass-produced (well, 3/day; I save one for emergency transport) minions that are doing it. And they do it with different faces.

Or I can just, you know, hand over the boots and get another pair tomorrow.

If I take ranks in bluff (even cross-class, at 20th) everyone is going to believe me when I tell them that I got the magic boots at a thrift-store and stumbled across the magic words. I then hand over the boots in the 'I've had my fun, you can have them now' mode, leave, change my face (Ring of Chameleon Power or Robe of Blending) and immigrate to my country of choice (which may very well be the one I just left, what with the ability to change my face).

And really, I don't need that many Wishes from my wish-farm, so I have them help me directly in rotation one day a week. When I don't have my simulacrum Solars serving me directly, I have them doing my deity's work (Mystra for Dweomerkeeper, so... spreading knowledge of magic; these proxies I make will be teachers... that... could get dangerous, but well, that's why 100% loyal proxies, no? Suitable orders and they will never talk under any circumstances that the Men in Black can reasonably come up with).


I imagine killing a nicely optimized T1 (or in my case, T-negative-a-few-dozen) character would be rather difficult. And keeping it dead would be truly impossible.

Yeah. Especially for mundanes. I'm mass producing Solars, which can cast True Resurrection, and get the material components for it for free.

Once a day, each one uses Sending to contact me. After a certain number of failures (hey, I might be plane hopping...) they use their spell-like at-will Commune to figure out how to revive/rescue me. If I'm dead? Well, Wish for Diamonds + True Resurrection takes care of it. Incapacitated? Transport Travellers Wish + Greater Dispel Magic (or a suitable Miracle). And so on. Your stock Solar is Int-23, Wis-25, and should be able to figure it out without too much trouble.

Note: The real reason for Sending, over just asking via Commune? I want to have a handy way of changing their orders if something comes up.

[Rubik]

I never noticed a chance of death in Sanctify the Wicked. :smallconfused:"The creature retains the memory of having been trapped in the gem, and it regards the spell's caster as a hated enemy who must be destroyed at all costs." If you're capable of casting 9th level spells, anything attacking you is assuredly going to die.

[TuggyNE]

"The creature retains the memory of having been trapped in the gem, and it regards the spell's caster as a hated enemy who must be destroyed at all costs." If you're capable of casting 9th level spells, anything attacking you is assuredly going to die.

Huh? You can't, what, non-lethally disable anyone who somehow manages to find you? :smallconfused: A full caster at level 20 is capable of pulling their punches to an absurd degree as well as throwing around awe-inspiring power.

[Rubik]

Huh? You can't, what, non-lethally disable anyone who somehow manages to find you? :smallconfused: A full caster at level 20 is capable of pulling their punches to an absurd degree as well as throwing around awe-inspiring power.With that level of power, you could accidentally kill a commoner with a cantrip.

[Forrestfire]

Well, color spray and a punch works. Your BAB is 10, which is better than the majority of the world.

[TuggyNE]

With that level of power, you could accidentally kill a commoner with a cantrip.

Just... don't do direct damage or save-or-dies. It's not that hard! Change your identity so they have no idea who to track, disable them with (save-or-)loses, teleport away whenever they get near, stay invisible, or, y'know, whatever you want. Charm person to get a restraining order for all you care.

[WarKitty]

I figured the solar simulacrums *could* cast it, but they wouldn't be able to sacrifice a level to make it work. Though if they can cast it, that works, since you can easily reach the point of having 10 billion solars in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you have a fast-time demiplane or the like.

Oh I was just relying on pants-wetting to do roughly the same job.


Huh? You can't, what, non-lethally disable anyone who somehow manages to find you? :smallconfused: A full caster at level 20 is capable of pulling their punches to an absurd degree as well as throwing around awe-inspiring power.

Mind-affecting would be the way to go, most likely. A simple fear spell at CL 20 should solve most of your problems.

[3WhiteFox3]

The biggest threat from the Wizard is that the ways that the modern world deals with threats and problems to keep things fairly under control simply won't work against a Wizard.

The current (American) bureaucracy assumes that people leave behind a paper trail just by existing. Identification, Drivers Licenses, Bank Accounts, Social Security, etc... The Wizard doesn't need any of those things. He travels while invisible on his phantom mount, he has as much money as he will ever need by using the many WBL tricks afforded to him via spells, if someone needs to identify him he has spells that can make them not want to do that or to make up identities on the spot. You can't even track him via physical appearance, since even that is subject to change.

If he wishes to, the Wizard can be a shadow in the night, a myth, a monster, something that people never actually believe exists. The world would be his play toy.

[Epsilon Rose]

The current (American) bureaucracy assumes that people leave behind a paper trail just by existing. Identification, Drivers Licenses, Bank Accounts, Social Security, etc... The Wizard doesn't need any of those things. He travels while invisible on his phantom mount, he has as much money as he will ever need by using the many WBL tricks afforded to him via spells, if someone needs to identify him he has spells that can make them not want to do that or to make up identities on the spot. You can't even track him via physical appearance, since even that is subject to change.

Actually, the money might be where they get her. I don't think any of the WBL tricks get you actual cash. They'll either result in gold or a salable resource. Neither of those is something you can use to buy normal goods. You'll probably have to take your goods to specific buyers and sell in bulk. At that point, the buyers are likely to keep records (especially if your resources are as pure as magic implies). Beyond that, carrying large amounts of paper money will draw attention on it's own, so having a bank account and some form of digital storage (either a credit card, Google wallet or something similar) would be a good idea.

Beyond that, if you want telco service or any kind of internet activity (even if you're getting it through libraries and cafes) then they have the normal ways of tracking you through those mediums.

[Xar Zarath]

The world is nicer is a play-toy. Seriously WarKitty, all the ideas put up are pretty good and barring you trying to rule the world (which I highly recommend you do not do) the world is pretty much your oyster.

I suggest a mindrape or 2 for some of the top riches people, so that they can get you out of a jam in case you get into one. It also be nice to have a stable identity or 2 for cover purposes.

Also about spells, if the real world has rpg games like DND, just buy a few supplements and read up on the spells. Heck since you can create your own spells, a fictional spell and its effect can be recreated for real.:smallbiggrin:

[Rubik]

Well, the paper trails are why you'd do your magicking under a pseudonym as a super...thing. I dunno. What are you when you're neither a hero nor a villain?

Anyway, you use divination to win the lottery, then use that money to make crazy amounts on the stock market. Then when you want to do something nutzy (like casting spells in public), change your face and even your species. Just make sure you're invisible when you teleport out of your room so nobody knows where you are or who you are when you pop up as Dwarf-Lord the Prestidictator or whatever.

[Xar Zarath]

What are you when you're neither a hero nor a villain?

A person?

Seriously though, I think that having an alternate identity is useful for when you need to do magic. Heck you could find out the winning numbers to a lottery, stock market etc in your alternate guise then transfer the money to your real identity and kill off the fake identity when you're done.

Or make simulacrums of rich people and enjoy your now comfortable life.

[Pickford]

So I've decided that my first wish is going to be "the power of a 20th level D&D generalist wizard, without any other alterations to my life or circumstances, matching the character sheet I will draw up." So what should I put on that character sheet? Let's assume for the moment that we're using my RL stats, whatever they are.

I'm assuming it's going to be heavy on crafting feats, preferably with some way to avoid paying xp for them. What else?

Edit: I decided to make it a PF wizard, so as to avoid xp loss on crafting.

Try this. Memorize an entire book in 1 hour. If you can do that, you're ~on par with a wizard at 20th.

edit: Or are we handwaving the decades of intense study/magical ability to memorize spells?

[Eaglejarl]

Step 1) Locate a rich person whose spouse / child / parent / whatever just died / has terminal cancer / whatever

Step 2) Wish that person back to life and / or health for $10,000,000

Step 3) Inform the rich person that their loved one will need annual booster shots or the spell will wear off and they will die / get sick again. Point out (delicately) that if you are in jail / hunted by the police, you will not be able to provide those booster shots.

Step 4) Once a year do some meaningless mumbo-jumbo that looks like a spell to "keep the resurrected person alive." During these meetings, feel free to share a brandy with the rich person, chat about their business and stock picks, and ask any small favors you might need. Don't threaten, just befriend them.

You now have power, wealth, a network of powerful friends who are strongly motivated to keep you safe and comfortable, and any particular special material goods you could ask for. True love is harder to find, but much easier when you're rich, have as much free time as you want, and can make yourself as beautiful as you desire.

Of course, whenever you do your resurrection thing, shapeshift into someone of a radically different appearance -- different gender, different height / weight / hair color / eye color.


And yes, creating spell traps to solve all the world's problems would be fantastic. One obvious choice would be to make lots of spell traps of Lightning Bolt and use them as power plants. The military would pay billions for spell traps of Stoneskin and Protection from Arrows (invulnerable soldiers). Firefighters would love to have Endure Elements. (Interesting point about EE, as per RAW: you "suffer no harm from being in a hot or cold environment." Outside of the stated temperature range you won't be "comfortable" but you also won't take damage. Clearly, you're fine to explore the sun as long as you have some way to breathe.

[sleepyphoenixx]

You'll want to get access to healing spells somehow, including disease and poison removal. That's one of the greatest benefits of magic imo.

Lots of ideas here will draw attention. I'd rather stay under the radar.
And really, what do you need millions for? Get a Simulacrum or two to go to work for you to get spending cash and create a paper trail.
Use your magic to get anything rare or expensive without drawing attention.

Now your living a comfortable life, but you'll probably be looking to do something worthwhile with your time after a while. Start creating spells that tackle the problems of the modern world. Spells to remove radiation and pollution should be doable, and sending polymorphed simulacra around to clean up the world with them should allow you to avoid attention while still doing something that makes the world a better place.

I'd probably be a better druid than a wizard. :smallsmile:

I'd be very careful with giving anyone access to magic items (or letting them know you can do magic).
If your abilities get out you'll most likely get targeted for either kidnapping by every kind of organized crime and government you can think of or assassination by religious fanatics for "being in league with the devil" or something like that.
It might not be much of a danger to you (if you're a properly paranoid wizard) but at the very least it will be annoying and cause a lot of collateral damage, most likely to people you care about.

[ArcturusV]

Why would you want to live like a typical paranoid wizard? That seems like a dreadful, pathetic existence. I mean "Shoot me now" level of pathetic. You basically rot in a room, sitting in a pile of your own filth because you're Astral Projecting all the time, you never have any human contact, you hide everything from everyone and live in constant fear of what might happen if you drop your guard for even a moment or someone finally outfoxes you.

I would never mess with rich people by the way. They tend to have one thing in common. That they believe they can get whatever they want. That makes them potentially dangerous. And not exactly likely to play into your game, whatever it is. Like the High Level Wizard they tend to live a life where they aren't held accountable to the world (Least the rich people I've personally known), so they wouldn't think twice about messing with you. Particularly since they are used to winning in life.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Why would you want to live like a typical paranoid wizard? That seems like a dreadful, pathetic existence. I mean "Shoot me now" level of pathetic. You basically rot in a room, sitting in a pile of your own filth because you're Astral Projecting all the time, you never have any human contact, you hide everything from everyone and live in constant fear of what might happen if you drop your guard for even a moment or someone finally outfoxes you.

Which is why you'd want to avoid drawing any kind of attention. Even winning the lottery puts you under a lot of scrutiny you don't want or need. Your best bet is to life a (seemingly) completely ordinary life. If you want to go wild you can use Alter Self or Polymorph. Just make sure you can't be connected to your normal identity (so you leave your cell phone at home/with a simulacrum).

[gooddragon1]

I used the find function and I cannot find any posts by Tippy in this thread.

[Beardbarian]

Why you want to be a Wizard when you can be a Samurai?

[Xar Zarath]

I used the find function and I cannot find any posts by Tippy in this thread.

That's true. I wonder what the Emperor would suggest?:smallbiggrin:

[Kazyan]

That's true. I wonder what the Emperor would suggest?:smallbiggrin:

Let's beat him to the punch and create a post-scarcity spacefaring civilization where everyone is immortal even after the heat death of the universe (which we.prevent from happening, at least locally). I'm sure Tippy has already given us all of the parts we need for that.

[Zanos]

That's true. I wonder what the Emperor would suggest?:smallbiggrin:
First, shapechange into a Zodar...

[John Longarrow]

Xar Zarath

I don't think he's going to comment because he's already turned into a 20th level wizard in real life.

[Coidzor]

Oh I was just relying on pants-wetting to do roughly the same job.

I'd recommend against it, the game master's natural perversity would lead to [banned topics] coming into play if you took the form of a celestial being and went around doing that sort of thing without some form of insurance beyond making them soil their trousers.


"The creature retains the memory of having been trapped in the gem, and it regards the spell's caster as a hated enemy who must be destroyed at all costs." If you're capable of casting 9th level spells, anything attacking you is assuredly going to die.

That's if the gem gets broken before the transformation is complete from my reading. :smallconfused: And it's a diamond, so not many people are going to go out of their way to try to break it even if the wizard is careless enough to just leave them willy-nilly.

[Rubik]

That's if the gem gets broken before the transformation is complete from my reading. :smallconfused: And it's a diamond, so not many people are going to go out of their way to try to break it even if the wizard is careless enough to just leave them willy-nilly.It doesn't actually specify when the creature does not want to kill you, though, so even if the spell works in its entirety, the newly Good-aligned creature will still want to kill you.

[Coidzor]

It doesn't actually specify when the creature does not want to kill you, though, so even if the spell works in its entirety, the newly Good-aligned creature will still want to kill you.

So it does. I'd thought that was part of the paragraph detailing the prematurely extricated creature. Poor editing, ho!

Mindrape it is then.


Let's beat him to the punch and create a post-scarcity spacefaring civilization where everyone is immortal even after the heat death of the universe (which we.prevent from happening, at least locally). I'm sure Tippy has already given us all of the parts we need for that.

I believe simply infinitely introducing energy and matter into the system prevents the heat death of the universe, which a couple of permanent walls of fire and construction trap combos will do.

I suspect that it's a toss-up between wall of fire-powered steam turbines and lightning bolt traps for power generation. Granted, with the various skill check boosters and ability to ferret out Tesla's notes, the short term solution of turning the planet into one giant dynamo or what have you is probably within the wizard's grasp, or at least is after putting a team of solars on the task.

I believe there's a thread or two floating around about how to make transhumans...

[Gnome Alone]

Try this. Memorize an entire book in 1 hour. If you can do that, you're ~on par with a wizard at 20th.

edit: Or are we handwaving the decades of intense study/magical ability to memorize spells?

Geez, the thing you quoted even says it's a wish, of, y'know, like the genie-granted variety. She wishes for the power of a 20th level wizard. No reason to get all "look, this is like an E3 world," right?

Oh, and by the way, WarKitty, I look forward to having you as the secret invisible mind-controlling wizardly overlord of the world, you seem like a decent sort.

[Coidzor]

Oh, and by the way, WarKitty, I look forward to having you as the secret invisible mind-controlling wizardly overlord of the world, you seem like a decent sort.

I, for one, welcome our new Feline Overlords. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKbFb6TPVEA)

[Rubik]

Geez, the thing you quoted even says it's a wish, of, y'know, like the genie-granted variety. She wishes for the power of a 20th level wizard. No reason to get all "look, this is like an E3 world," right?Don't expect certain people to even bother reading half the stuff they respond to.

This is just a generic warning; it has nothing to do with anyone in particular.

:smallsigh:

[hindsight]

If I was suddenly promoted to 20th level wizard I think figuring out ways to make money wouldn't really be on my priority list any longer. Magnificent Mansion would take care of food and a place to live wherever you are and Phantom Steed and teleport would take care of transport - what else would you use money for apart from entertainment?

Working out how to spend my time would be difficult. I'd probabily have a bit of fun with the media by casting alter/disguise self and turn up to the rescue at burning buildings as Superman or leaving them scratching their heads as a list of comic book heros start fighting crime around the world. Might throw them a bit having inspirational news to report though!

It'd be a dangerous path if you have a lot of power, but influencing some of the more despotic dictators to resign might not be a bad thing. You could get away with a lot with charm/dominate, invisibility, teleport and a general lack of belief in magic. Figuring out what sort of extra trouble you'd cause by getting rid of them and knowing when to stop would be a lot of responsibility though.

For time out I'd love to go exploring. A trip to the Arctic or across the Himalayas with Endure Elements and a Phantom Steed would be awesome. Tongues would be handy communicating with the locals if I went to a more populated area.

Saying movie lines before they happen is a pretty annoying trait for me for movies I've seen before but I reckon I could take that to new levels with Foresight at a premiere :smallwink:

[WarKitty]

If I was suddenly promoted to 20th level wizard I think figuring out ways to make money wouldn't really be on my priority list any longer. Magnificent Mansion would take care of food and a place to live wherever you are and Phantom Steed and teleport would take care of transport - what else would you use money for apart from entertainment?

Crafting. Crafting costs money. And I want some stat boosters.

[Rubik]

Crafting. Crafting costs money. And I want some stat boosters.Planar Bind outsiders with access to Wish and just Wish for your equipment. There's no gp limit on the magical items you can get, after all.

[John Longarrow]

I'm thinking an Optomized wizard would be more fun than just a wizard.

Toss in a level of Mind Bender for telepathy...
Incantrix for Metamagic fun...

[Jack_Simth]

Ah, there we go...

Either:
Cloistered Cleric-1/Wizard2/Mystic Theurge-7/Dweomerkeeper-10.

or:
Cloistered Cleric-2/Wizard1/Mystic Theurge-7/Dweomerkeeper-10.

19th level Cleric (or Wizard) casting with 11th level Wizard (or Cleric) casting (whichever is your preference; could also go 18/12 or 17/13; Practiced Caster twice and you're golden), with four Supernatural Spell uses per day. You can use all the magic items you have your Simulacrum Solars make, too, and can revive the recently dead (and deal with most diseases) using regular spell slots rather than relying on a servant. Could also replace Wizard with Sorcerer without any trouble. Not alignment-dependent. If you're OK with dropping a few uses of Supernatural Spell every day, you could make that a 17/16 pairing. If you want double 9ths and some Supernatural Spell usages, it gets a bit trickier (you generally have to have some amount of alignment dependency).

If you don't mind being Chaotic-Evil, that could be: Savage Bard-5/Ur-Priest-2/Mystic Theurge(Savage Bard/Ur-Priest)-3/Sublime Chord-1/Mystic Theurge(Ur-Priest/Sublime Chord)-5/Dweomerkeeper (Sublime Chord)-4. 10th level Ur-Priest, 10th level Sublime Chord casting. Arcane & Divine 9ths. You'll need to work the feats a bit to qualify for Dweomerkeeper, however, specifically to get the Magic domain.


Actually, the money might be where they get her. I don't think any of the WBL tricks get you actual cash. They'll either result in gold or a salable resource. Neither of those is something you can use to buy normal goods. You'll probably have to take your goods to specific buyers and sell in bulk. At that point, the buyers are likely to keep records (especially if your resources are as pure as magic implies).
Non-issue. Use face-changing magic, and visit groups that don't keep records (because they're getting stuff illegally). Oddly enough, power transformers get stolen off of buildings... and people wouldn't risk that if they didn't know where they could sell them. So you should be able to sell some scrap iron.

Alternately, start your own 'refinery' (possibly offshore - you sell iron to first world companies, they cover the shipping and import costs), staff it with Simulacrums, and doctor the books as needed.

Beyond that, carrying large amounts of paper money will draw attention on it's own, so having a bank account and some form of digital storage (either a credit card, Google wallet or something similar) would be a good idea.
Non-issue. You use simulacrums to manufacture multiple usable faces (pick a face via Illusion/Alter self; go to a war-torn third-world country. Apply to Canada for refugee status. Get a passport from Canada, emegrate to wherever you want. Set up a simulacrum with the face you want maintained), and just rotate through a few hundred debit cards that all have different names.


Beyond that, if you want telco service or any kind of internet activity (even if you're getting it through libraries and cafes) then they have the normal ways of tracking you through those mediums.Again, non-issue. They belong to the false ID's you've created. You just, you know, borrow them for a day occasionally.

[Rubik]

Ah, there we go...

Either:
Cloistered Cleric-1/Wizard2/Mystic Theurge-7/Dweomerkeeper-10.

or:
Cloistered Cleric-2/Wizard1/Mystic Theurge-7/Dweomerkeeper-10.

19th level Cleric (or Wizard) casting with 11th level Wizard (or Cleric) casting (whichever is your preference; could also go 18/12 or 17/13; Practiced Caster twice and you're golden), with four Supernatural Spell uses per day. You can use all the magic items you have your Simulacrum Solars make, too, and can revive the recently dead (and deal with most diseases) using regular spell slots rather than relying on a servant. Could also replace Wizard with Sorcerer without any trouble. Not alignment-dependent. If you're OK with dropping a few uses of Supernatural Spell every day, you could make that a 17/16 pairing. If you want double 9ths and some Supernatural Spell usages, it gets a bit trickier (you generally have to have some amount of alignment dependency).I still like using psionics for this. It takes a little work, but you can gain all the spells in all the books as spells known (along with every power available), can cast them all as supernatural abilities, and gain infinite spells per day due to nabbing font of power and using power points. Also, augmentation is a thing, and with the magic mantle, you should be able to apply metamagic or metapsionics at will, assuming you can perform the (easy as Pinkie Pie) slots-to-points conversion.

Plus, the action economy is totally your *****.

[Pickford]

Geez, the thing you quoted even says it's a wish, of, y'know, like the genie-granted variety. She wishes for the power of a 20th level wizard. No reason to get all "look, this is like an E3 world," right?

Oh, and by the way, WarKitty, I look forward to having you as the secret invisible mind-controlling wizardly overlord of the world, you seem like a decent sort.

If it's a Wish of the, you know, variety, then it's subject to being subverted by said evil Genie :smallcool:

[Arbane]

A few castings of make whole will put you at the center of the art restoration world. You could ask literal millions for your ability to perfectly restore artwork from most damage short of fire.

And every archaeologist on earth will want your help.

Using divining to beat the stock-market is probably the most risk- and guilt-free way to become rich with magic.

[Coidzor]

And every archaeologist on earth will want your help.

Using divining to beat the stock-market is probably the most risk- and guilt-free way to become rich with magic.

I'm mostly just wondering what the divination combo would look like, really. Probably just that I'm not good enough at 20 Questions to imagine it properly? :smallconfused:

[Epsilon Rose]

I just want to point out that solving all of the worlds problems via magic (especially energy related ones) could seriously hamper scientific progress and prevent you from getting shiny new concepts to play with.

[Rubik]

I just want to point out that solving all of the worlds problems via magic (especially energy related ones) could seriously hamper scientific progress and prevent you from getting shiny new concepts to play with.Why bother trying to treat (but not cure) diseases through pharmaceuticals (for money) when you could just skip to the end and fix everybody?

[Epsilon Rose]

Why bother trying to treat (but not cure) diseases through pharmaceuticals (for money) when you could just skip to the end and fix everybody?

A) Some pharmaceuticals do cure diseases (see antibiotics)
B) Because the research done to create those pharmaceuticals increases our knowledge of the body and micro organisms which allows us to do and (more importantly) conceive of new things beyond simply curing diseases.

[Jack_Simth]

I'm mostly just wondering what the divination combo would look like, really. Probably just that I'm not good enough at 20 Questions to imagine it properly? :smallconfused:

Step 1: Get a listing of stocks.
Step 2: Go down the list, and for each one, ask "Will this stock go up in value by at least X% within the next Y timeframe?" (of course, you pick X and Y based on how suspicious you're willing to look to other brokers - say, 20% within the next week, maybe).
Step 3: Mark all 'Yes' answers as you go (simple tick on the list with a pen)
Step 4: When done, buy the marked stocks.

Do note that the yes/no thing is for Commune. If using Contact Other Plane, instead, you can simply ask which stock will increase the most in your specified timeframe.

[Ksstaritixtl]

On the matter of getting cash. Couldn't you just use any of the myriad ways of ignoring material components (Epic Feats, Dweomerkeeper, etc.) and use Fabricate to create banknotes in bulk?

EDIT: Or scry/invisibility/teleport to some Forbes 100 guy and dominate him into giving you a generous birthday present.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Why bother trying to treat (but not cure) diseases through pharmaceuticals (for money) when you could just skip to the end and fix everybody?

If you're going around curing diseases with magic you'll probably end up in a government lab somewhere. With your insides on the outside or drugged into obedience and held in reserve for the "important" people.

Even if you stay unmolested you'd need scores of travelling simulacra healing people to make any big difference.

[Forrestfire]

I think it'd be really hard for any government to capture someone who is literally never surprised (foresight) and can instantly leave the area of whatever operation is being taken to catch the wizard (celerity -> greater teleport) or is just acting through a projected body while the real one is hidden away in a pocket dimension.

[Ksstaritixtl]

If you're going around curing diseases with magic you'll probably end up in a government lab somewhere. With your insides on the outside or drugged into obedience and held in reserve for the "important" people.

That will be quite a feat if your real body lies in a cave on Triton and you run around with Astral Projection. And that would only be the first defense I would start in this case.

[Ruethgar]

I would rather be an StP Erudite 18, Chameleon 2 for all spells. Take Customize Domain as your floating feat with Arcane Disciple to get every spell known as arcane and convert them to powers. If you go this route, [War] spells are your friends. Even without the Erudite to skip the material cost, you can summon materials worth what your spells would cost.

Cleric has Guidance of the Avatar which is the most practical spell for laying low but still deriving great benefit from your abilities. I would agree that spell traps could be of great benefit, but over population is already a problem and free food and energy wouldn't help. Perhaps some Enlarged Extended War Block the Seed traps for every major city that is instant birth control for 40 days to 500 people within 600ft. Then dispel traps for people who actually want children.

I personally would use that power to terraform and create worlds.

War Spells in dragon 309 pg 44 are a spell trap's best friend.

[Rubik]

If you're going around curing diseases with magic you'll probably end up in a government lab somewhere. With your insides on the outside or drugged into obedience and held in reserve for the "important" people.I was about to say how difficult (see: impossible) this is to do, but it's been done already. Of course, those are just the very beginning. With the level of power one would have access to, the term "god" isn't exactly out of reach, especially if you don't require the D&D mechanics of divine ranks, and instead define it as many people on Earth would.


Even if you stay unmolested you'd need scores of travelling simulacra healing people to make any big difference.Not if you're smart. Think about a resetting Wish trap that produces resetting Mass Heal/Ocular & Chained Regenerate/Bestow Curse traps (the latter of which restrict anyone affected from having more than one child, to reduce overpopulation for a few generations). Make the resetting M-H traps shaped like rings (that don't require being worn to use), then hire thousands of people using your nigh infinite wealth to travel around the world casting on everyone.

Alternately, a resetting Wish trap that pruduces far-traveling birds that produce those spell effects as spell-like abilities that are programmed to travel all over the world, casting them on every human everywhere.

Once the populations settle down to tolerable levels, change the Bestow Curse conditions to change to two children.

Alternately, create an epic spell that gives you what you want. Altering everyone's alignment to non-Evil and permanently increasing everyone's mental stats by +10 each (especially Wisdom) wouldn't hurt, either.

[Arbane]

Alternately, create an epic spell that gives you what you want. Altering everyone's alignment to non-Evil and permanently increasing everyone's mental stats by +10 each (especially Wisdom) wouldn't hurt, either.

Because geniuses with good intentions never disagree with each other, sometimes disastrously.

...Can our wizard teach other people to use magic?

[ArcturusV]

Would you really want to live like that though?

I mean.... I can't be the only one who looks at these plans and thinks, "... that sort of life sucks..."

Alone... sitting in a pile of your own filth in some cave on another dimension completely devoid of all other life, or even things to do. Trying to play god on one hand while living a miserable, cursed existence on the other of basically subsisting off nutrient paste (Created Food/Water), and living in fear of actually having a life. Because you are afraid of having a life at that point, because if you were known you wouldn't have a life. You'd either be hunted or worshiped. Which either way can't be that fulfilling.

At the very least if I wanted to be alone like that for a bit, I'd do something else with my time other than try to control all of the world. Like... use my magic to explore the universe itself. Which strikes me of at least having some fun, adventure, and discovery. I might be alone but I never really know what's going to show up next, and going to see things no human has ever seen sounds pretty fun.

[Rubik]

Because geniuses with good intentions never disagree with each other, sometimes disastrously.I never said otherwise. However, it's certainly a good start. There are lots of other things you can do on a worldwide scale, as well.


...Can our wizard teach other people to use magic?Wishes would certainly be a good starting place, though I'm not sure how you would be able to do so otherwise. Perhaps a custom magic item? The "Character Sheet of D&D Builds +1" or something.


Would you really want to live like that though?

I mean.... I can't be the only one who looks at these plans and thinks, "... that sort of life sucks..."

Alone... sitting in a pile of your own filth in some cave on another dimension completely devoid of all other life, or even things to do. Trying to play god on one hand while living a miserable, cursed existence on the other of basically subsisting off nutrient paste (Created Food/Water), and living in fear of actually having a life. Because you are afraid of having a life at that point, because if you were known you wouldn't have a life. You'd either be hunted or worshiped. Which either way can't be that fulfilling.Living like what? Why would you ever consider doing such a thing? Even if you did place your body in a pocket dimension, you could easily use Astral Projection to get out and about, with a permanent item of Prestidigitation to keep your original body clean.

Though in my case, I'd have a multitude of bodies that are nigh invulnerable, all connected via hivemind, so I could go out and do whatever.

In my particular instance, I'd be creating fictional worlds and living out stories for fun. Everything from famed superhero to talented student at Hogwarts. How much better could things possibly get?

[BWR]

Am I the only one with a scholarly bent?
Comprehend Languages to decipher Linear A and any such other languages.
I'm sure there are plenty of spells to allow you to speak dead languages if you look hard enough (or research new spells). Find out what these were, transcribe grammars and dictionaries, record pronounciations and rhythm.
Contact Other Plane or Commune or more powerful divinations to answer questions like "What did X look like?" or "How did Y actually happen?" "Who did Z?"
Time travel magic from whatever relevant supplement you like to go temporal touring. Save the library of Alexandria or Mayan writings.
Seriously, with a little effort the addition to human knowledge would be almost incomrehensible.

[Ksstaritixtl]

Would you really want to live like that though?

I mean.... I can't be the only one who looks at these plans and thinks, "... that sort of life sucks..."

Alone... sitting in a pile of your own filth in some cave on another dimension completely devoid of all other life, or even things to do. Trying to play god on one hand while living a miserable, cursed existence on the other of basically subsisting off nutrient paste (Created Food/Water), and living in fear of actually having a life. Because you are afraid of having a life at that point, because if you were known you wouldn't have a life. You'd either be hunted or worshiped. Which either way can't be that fulfilling.

Well you can finally achieve your goals, whatever they are. You aren't sitting in your filth alone since your astral body can go wherever you want it to. You aren't hunted, because hunting you is pointless as the world will soon understand. If you want to have better food, just bind a solar and have it cast heroes' feast for you every day. You are a wizard, dammit, you can do whatever you want.

[ArcturusV]

To be fair Rubik when I usually see the "Overly Optimized, Paranoid Super Wizard" how their average day tends to be seems to come down to:

I live in a crappy Demi-Plane devoid of life, and not even really with anything interesting to do/discover there since I created the whole thing and know everything about it, and created it to be a Fortress of Invincible Solitude more than some pleasure garden where I have transported in other people to share paradise with.

I then cast a buttload of divinations so I can find out if someone is somehow going to kill me today because I live in constant fear of someone doing something like that.

I then spend my time protecting myself against all the warnings of the buttload of divinations because I'm the magical equivalent of a shut in who cradles a shotgun 24/7 and mutters about how they'll never take me alive...

Then I astral project and mindrape people into being my thralls devoid of any real surprises in life, real friends (As they're all programmed), challenges to overcome, etc.

Then I get back home after a few hours/days of astral projecting, eat some nutrient paste (Which I may have flavored, but anyone who's eaten bad stuff like that which has been flavored can still tell you that the paste isn't exactly high class digs).

That seems to be the standard "Astral Projecting Demiplane Invincible Wizard" daily plan as I've seen it in places. So when people kept suggesting it... that's where my mind went.

Even then the lack of surprises (Because I created everything in those illusions, conjurations, new planes, etc, and they are all bent to my will) probably means I'd get bored with them pretty fast. No challenge, no surprise, etc. Little fun. At least to me.

Thus probably why the "Stellar Cartographer" thing I mentioned. As discovering new worlds, seeing what is there, never really knowing what will be around the next star until I get there will at least bear interest to me for quite a while. Lot of space to discover.

[Ksstaritixtl]

I live in a crappy Demi-Plane devoid of life, and not even really with anything interesting to do/discover there since I created the whole thing and know everything about it, and created it to be a Fortress of Invincible Solitude more than some pleasure garden where I have transported in other people to share paradise with.

Nobody says this is where you have to actually hang out, it's just a safe place fr your body and stuff.


I then cast a buttload of divinations so I can find out if someone is somehow going to kill me today because I live in constant fear of someone doing something like that.

Not really necessary, since no other being on earth is able of accessing your demiplane.


I then spend my time protecting myself against all the warnings of the buttload of divinations because I'm the magical equivalent of a shut in who cradles a shotgun 24/7 and mutters about how they'll never take me alive...

See above.


Then I astral project and mindrape people into being my thralls devoid of any real surprises in life, real friends (As they're all programmed), challenges to overcome, etc.

Why, you can do whatever you want, wherever you want, and noone can harm you permanently.


Then I get back home after a few hours/days of astral projecting, eat some nutrient paste (Which I may have flavored, but anyone who's eaten bad stuff like that which has been flavored can still tell you that the paste isn't exactly high class digs).

Why would you eat this ****. You are a wizard, be creative.



Even then the lack of surprises (Because I created everything in those illusions, conjurations, new planes, etc, and they are all bent to my will) probably means I'd get bored with them pretty fast. No challenge, no surprise, etc. Little fun. At least to me.

Be creative, you are a wizard.



Thus probably why the "Stellar Cartographer" thing I mentioned. As discovering new worlds, seeing what is there, never really knowing what will be around the next star until I get there will at least bear interest to me for quite a while. Lot of space to discover.

Certainly not a bad way to spend your time.

[Rubik]

To be fair Rubik when I usually see the "Overly Optimized, Paranoid Super Wizard" how their average day tends to be seems to come down to:Super-paranoid, yes, but only somewhat optimized.

My particular build is impossible to destroy unless you can somehow trick me into killing myself (ain't gonna happen) or Pun-Pun himself takes me down (which will still be a major feat, as anything he can do, I can do just about as well).

If you're literally invulnerable, why do you need to worry about anything?

[Forrestfire]

I live in a crappy Demi-Plane devoid of life, and not even really with anything interesting to do/discover there since I created the whole thing and know everything about it, and created it to be a Fortress of Invincible Solitude more than some pleasure garden where I have transported in other people to share paradise with.

So that's where you live. Or it's not. It might be where you word of recall to. Or just where you take people you feel like impressing. It might be a genesis'd planet that you've transplanted life onto. Your own little giant terrarium, with a magnificent mansion in the middle. Or whatever.

The places where you spend your time? Probably somewhere doing something fun.


I then cast a buttload of divinations so I can find out if someone is somehow going to kill me today because I live in constant fear of someone doing something like that.

In a world without one spellcasters, you only need one (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/foresight.htm).


I then spend my time protecting myself against all the warnings of the buttload of divinations because I'm the magical equivalent of a shut in who cradles a shotgun 24/7 and mutters about how they'll never take me alive...

I don't see how spending a half-hour each day (at most) or just once (at worst) prepping yourself to go out on the off-chance something bad might happen to you is a bad thing. When I go on vacation, I spend more time preparing myself than that.


Then I astral project and mindrape people into being my thralls devoid of any real surprises in life, real friends (As they're all programmed), challenges to overcome, etc.


I don't see where anyone said they'd mindrape everyone they met. It might be a useful tool in some cases, but the majority of the time would likely be spent interacting with other people.


Then I get back home after a few hours/days of astral projecting, eat some nutrient paste (Which I may have flavored, but anyone who's eaten bad stuff like that which has been flavored can still tell you that the paste isn't exactly high class digs).


As said above, heroes' feast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heroesFeast.htm) is a thing. Not only that, but you have the ability to get all the wealth you'd ever want. Go dine wherever you want, it's not like it's an issue to.


That seems to be the standard "Astral Projecting Demiplane Invincible Wizard" daily plan as I've seen it in places. So when people kept suggesting it... that's where my mind went.


The thing about being a wizard is that you can change your options every day.


Even then the lack of surprises (Because I created everything in those illusions, conjurations, new planes, etc, and they are all bent to my will) probably means I'd get bored with them pretty fast. No challenge, no surprise, etc. Little fun. At least to me.


The amount of new things to experience in the world outstrip your ability to experience them. Spend some time meeting people, walking the earth, helping a cause, fighting a war, learning to cook, becoming a superhero, directing movies, reading books (or writing them), going gravedigging to find someone from history you'd like to meet (ice assassin/simulacrum), etc.

Ever had something you wanted to do? Now you have the ability to do it. And you don't have to use magic for everything. It's just useful for the little things (like staying alive). Heck, you could even spend some time completely forgoing magical protections except for maybe a contingent true resurrection. The world would be your oyster, and if you ever got bored of it...


Thus probably why the "Stellar Cartographer" thing I mentioned. As discovering new worlds, seeing what is there, never really knowing what will be around the next star until I get there will at least bear interest to me for quite a while. Lot of space to discover.

... you're still able to do this. Go boldly where no one has gone before. Maybe bring people along—build yourself a starship (colossal animated object with life support systems and whatever you feel like adding, and greater teleport can be used for FTL travel). Or go plane-hopping to see if there's any other magic users out there, and say "hi."

[Coidzor]

Because geniuses with good intentions never disagree with each other, sometimes disastrously.

That's what the army of solars is there for (http://youtu.be/ag50ct3EBxQ?t=58s). No thermo-nuclear exchanges (http://youtu.be/9WsEh7oti3U?t=4m28s) to decide supremacy of doctrine. No introducing super lethal poisons into one another's air and water. Slave species are not permitted to engage in such self-destructive conflicts.

A chaotic individual like the hypothetical wizard we're discussing may or may not let humanity know that they've got a vested interest in not having them go extinct, or they may not care if humanity aside from themselves goes extinct. Odds are they probably do care though.


I don't see where anyone said they'd mindrape everyone they met. It might be a useful tool in some cases, but the majority of the time would likely be spent interacting with other people.

I did mention using Holy Mindrape(that is to say, Sanctify the Wicked) on the world's population in order to eliminate all evil individuals alive at that time on the planet. Even with the substitution, that's more just mindraping all of the... problematic individuals, though one could just as easily send them to Space Australia or something else. Or do nothing about them and occasionally watch how they're reacting to what one does. Or consider them the completely irrelevant ants that they are. *shrug*

[ArcturusV]

Question: If you presume there are things like an army of solars that you can gate in and turn into your slaves...

That means Solars exist. The Gods who made them exist. Other planes exist in the context of this exercise... meaning there probably are things like epic level evil spellcasters, spelljamming liches, etc, who may mess with your plans, thus screwing with that whole "I am the only spellcaster in existence so I fear nothing" idea of not having to be an ultra paranoid magical shotgun carrying shut in?

Or just thinking too much about it.

[GrokMyJive]

Edit: ah, well, disregard this post entirely.

[Jack_Simth]

Question: If you presume there are things like an army of solars that you can gate in and turn into your slaves...

That means Solars exist. The Gods who made them exist. Other planes exist in the context of this exercise... meaning there probably are things like epic level evil spellcasters, spelljamming liches, etc, who may mess with your plans, thus screwing with that whole "I am the only spellcaster in existence so I fear nothing" idea of not having to be an ultra paranoid magical shotgun carrying shut in?

Or just thinking too much about it.

Oddly, most of the plans for Solar armies that have been seen in this thread are *not* about getting them via Gate or anything in the Planar Binding line. It's about bypassing components and making almost-real versions via duplication of the Simulacrum spell while making use of something that eliminates components (namely, the Complete Divine Web Enhancement Dweomerkeeper PrC Supernatural Spell ability). The piece of the creature to be duplicated is one of the components of Simulacrum, which you ignore. So you can theoretically make copies of creatures that don't actually exist.

[Coidzor]

Question: If you presume there are things like an army of solars that you can gate in and turn into your slaves...

That means Solars exist. The Gods who made them exist. Other planes exist in the context of this exercise... meaning there probably are things like epic level evil spellcasters, spelljamming liches, etc, who may mess with your plans, thus screwing with that whole "I am the only spellcaster in existence so I fear nothing" idea of not having to be an ultra paranoid magical shotgun carrying shut in?

Or just thinking too much about it.

Simulacrums. It's just easier to call them solars than to type out solar simulacrums each time.

& No, not without getting into real world religion and a whole lot of suppositions that no one wants to deal with. Wishing all of the D&D deities and planes into existence is past the purview of the scenario we're dealing with. Even if they are in place, you're not really understanding the relationship between celestials and deities completely. Celestials can be free agents and are not all toadies of good-aligned deities. Genesis for a demi-plane is the main example of plane-hopping given, though you'd have to poke Rubik for an exact explanation of what his idea actually is and how it'd work.

Kinda.


i skimmed and didn't see it, but i cant be sure, so. has anyone mentioned Eidetic Spellcaster yet?

Not by name, as I recall, but the one where you burn incense and memorize spells in your own head has been. And that's the Eidetic Spellcaster variant, IIRC.

[Rubik]

Genesis for a demi-plane is the main example of plane-hopping given, though you'd have to poke Rubik for an exact explanation of what his idea actually is and how it'd work.My idea was to create an epic spell (using Leadership or thrallherd or other types of minions to mitigate the DC to virtually nothing). If reality uses the "anything that can exist already exists somewhere" model, the spell finds a universe corresponding to the one I want and sends me there, placing me according to my desired role in the story. If what I want doesn't exist, the spell will create a universe and inserts me into it the way I want, using narrative causality to flesh out everything I don't explicitly specify, but that doesn't contradict what I want.

Then I just play my part the way I want and push the story along, having all the fun I can handle doing so.

[John Longarrow]

My idea was to create an epic spell (using Leadership or thrallherd or other types of minions to mitigate the DC to virtually nothing). If reality uses the "anything that can exist already exists somewhere" model, the spell finds a universe corresponding to the one I want and sends me there, placing me according to my desired role in the story. If what I want doesn't exist, the spell will create a universe and inserts me into it the way I want, using narrative causality to flesh out everything I don't explicitly specify, but that doesn't contradict what I want.

Then I just play my part the way I want and push the story along, having all the fun I can handle doing so.

Rubik,

You have just explained why Ron Jeremy and Hugh Hefner have so many girlfriends... :D

[DMVerdandi]

Rather than wizard, I would rather use this build, as Erudite is my favorite class.

I would rather be an StP Erudite 18, Chameleon 2 for all spells. Take Customize Domain as your floating feat with Arcane Disciple to get every spell known as arcane and convert them to powers.

Based on my present life (College student/poor yet comfortable) The top ten powers/spells I would use are

1.Tongues "permanent"
Never again shall language barriers get in my way.

2.Sustenance
No need for food or water

3.Detect thoughts
No more lies

4. Greater teleport

5.Shadow conjuration, greater
6.Shadow Evocation,greater
Two of the best spells for variety. Why not both? If I need anything, I am pretty much covered.

7.Alter Self
When I feel Like being pretty. persist

8. Dominate
Used sparingly, for when I need something.

9.Chasing Perfection
Oh,hell yes.Persist this. Every day I wake up, I become better than I already am.

10.That art thou persistant
My senses are sharpened to the nth. 20 on spot,listen, and search.


With these, I am just insanely on point. My senses are nuts, my ability scores are insane, whenever I want I can create damn near any energy effect or conjuration, change my form, I can go without food or water pretty much indefinitely, can speak any language, read minds, and control them. Oh, and I can teleport.

kicking major ass as a person, here.
And as an erudite, I could switch out that loadout every day.

[Rubik]

And as an erudite, I could switch out that loadout every day.This is basically the gist of what I did, except I grafted the StP erudite's power/spell learning mechanic on another class; that way I don't have to deal with the limitations of UPPD.

[Xar Zarath]

I have to agree in part with ArcturusV. Being so powerful and intelligent, I do understand the need to protect yourself through the whole Astral Projection bit. But having so many useful spells, I don't see how you could be faced with large scale adversity.

Seriously the proper buffs/defences/anti divinations spells in place, you could go to town, and have fun. Drink, gamble, whore away, and wake up and do it all again-after memorizing your spells of course- never having to worry about any foes that might come against you.

The fortress of solitude/demiplane should be your personal private place where you work more complex magic. Heck the only reason the whole Astral Projection bit is suggested is on the assumption that the wizard has many enemies. While it is nice to be prepared, if you keep a low profile nothing is going to bother you.

As to the question of what if the world-ours of course-finds out about magic. Using current news, I think many governments are too busy with their own problems without having to worry about a guy who disappears etc. They have seen that trick with David Copperfield etc. They and generally many people of today require a lot of proof I think, to believe in magic.

And if they do believe and attempt to hunt you down, with the kind of spells you have, killing is going to be so easy its going to quickly lose its lustre. An earthquake spell in the right fault line, a meteor swarm in the right nuclear reactor, undeadpocalypse, mindrape etc.

[Coidzor]

Keeping a lower profile is primarily for the benefit of others, I believe, since the wizard in the OP's hypothetical doesn't really want to go and kill a lot of people for no good reason as an unnecessary waste.

[Rubik]

I have to agree in part with ArcturusV. Being so powerful and intelligent, I do understand the need to protect yourself through the whole Astral Projection bit. But having so many useful spells, I don't see how you could be faced with large scale adversity.

Seriously the proper buffs/defences/anti divinations spells in place, you could go to town, and have fun. Drink, gamble, whore away, and wake up and do it all again-after memorizing your spells of course- never having to worry about any foes that might come against you.

The fortress of solitude/demiplane should be your personal private place where you work more complex magic. Heck the only reason the whole Astral Projection bit is suggested is on the assumption that the wizard has many enemies. While it is nice to be prepared, if you keep a low profile nothing is going to bother you.I don't see why you wouldn't use Astral Projection at that level. It's easy to keep your body safe, and there's always the chance of nuclear detonations, random muggers getting (really) lucky, and inattentiveness messing up your divination volley.

At worst, it'll save you a spell slot when you want to go back to your demiplane for awhile. Don't use Plane Shift; just dismiss your Astral Projection. Or, you know, kill yourself. Think of it as a stupid party trick.

[edit] On second thought, only do this if you can bypass the expensive component. Which my build can do with a piddly +2 pp. Yay for StP erudite manifesting without levels in erudite!


As to the question of what if the world-ours of course-finds out about magic. Using current news, I think many governments are too busy with their own problems without having to worry about a guy who disappears etc. They have seen that trick with David Copperfield etc. They and generally many people of today require a lot of proof I think, to believe in magic.

And if they do believe and attempt to hunt you down, with the kind of spells you have, killing is going to be so easy its going to quickly lose its lustre. An earthquake spell in the right fault line, a meteor swarm in the right nuclear reactor, undeadpocalypse, mindrape etc.Widespread destruction sucks. It's hard to have fun when half of everyone is dead, and the other half is griefstricken and terrified.

[Ksstaritixtl]

And if they do believe and attempt to hunt you down, with the kind of spells you have, killing is going to be so easy its going to quickly lose its lustre. An earthquake spell in the right fault line, a meteor swarm in the right nuclear reactor, undeadpocalypse, mindrape etc.

Why so much collateral damage? Just scry-and-fry the leaders of whatever organization or nation wants to off you. That should be deterrent enough.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The point of keeping a low profile is not having to deal with all the hassle being known as the worlds only true spellcaster would bring you.
Sure, you can easily deal with pretty much any threat the mundanes can come up with, but do you really want to? I think it would get terribly annoying after a while.
Unless you're a total loner you'd have to protect your friends and family to, and unlike you they are vulnerable.

As for the whole mindrape/sanctify the wicked thing... does nobody see a problem with that? Yeah, bad things are bad, that doesn't give you the right to basically destroy free will.
Do you really think having the power gives you the authority to decide what's right or wrong for everyone?

[Xar Zarath]

Do you really think having the power gives you the authority to decide what's right or wrong for everyone?

Why yes indeed, Im a 20th level wizard don't cha know...:smallbiggrin:

Jokes aside, reaching that level of power would either reinforce or push aside your pre-existing beliefs on free will etc, though receiving it all at once on a wish may be different, since we all have our own opinions/prejudices, but to each their own:smallsigh:

[Xar Zarath]

Why so much collateral damage? Just scry-and-fry the leaders of whatever organization or nation wants to off you. That should be deterrent enough.

Nah, shock-and-awe man, that's the way to do it:smallcool:

Crushing them completely should force them to reevaluate any future reprisals since they can easily replace leaders. But then again, I'm just a paranoid 20th level wizard, and want to make sure nothing can take action against me:smallredface:

[Ksstaritixtl]

Nah, shock-and-awe man, that's the way to do it:smallcool:

Crushing them completely should force them to reevaluate any future reprisals since they can easily replace leaders. But then again, I'm just a paranoid 20th level wizard, and want to make sure nothing can take action against me:smallredface:

I woud think they would quickly run out of people that want to be responsible. You know, after the first three honchos got murdered.

[Telonius]

The first feat on my list would be Eschew Materials. Getting all of the reagents would be a real pain in the butt, in real life.

[Rubik]

As for the whole mindrape/sanctify the wicked thing... does nobody see a problem with that? Yeah, bad things are bad, that doesn't give you the right to basically destroy free will.
Do you really think having the power gives you the authority to decide what's right or wrong for everyone?There are certain actions which nobody should have the right to perform on another human being (or group thereof), pretty much regardless of personal ethics.

Child abuse, murder, bullying, rape, torture, war.

Best to nip those in the bud and pre-emptively reform people before they do them. Note that I'm not saying that people can't break the law and that thought-crimes are forbidden or whatever, just that people don't have the right to cause irreversable, traumatic suffering.

[endoperez]

There are certain actions which nobody should have the right to perform on another human being (or group thereof), pretty much regardless of personal ethics.

Child abuse, murder, bullying, rape, torture, war.

Best to nip those in the bud and pre-emptively reform people before they do them. Note that I'm not saying that people can't break the law and that thought-crimes are forbidden or whatever, just that people don't have the right to cause irreversable, traumatic suffering.

Mind control and brainwashing is one of the things most people can't accept, right next to all those you listed. It could be classified under bullying or torture, and it would cause irreversible, traumatic something to people.

[Rubik]

Mind control and brainwashing is one of the things most people can't accept, right next to all those you listed. It could be classified under bullying or torture, and it would cause irreversible, traumatic something to people.Tell that to someone who just lost their entire family because of someone else's unmitigated greed. Or to the family of someone who committed suicide because of harassment and bullying.

I wouldn't be doing anything more than ridding people of the urges to perform senseless acts of wanton destruction and torment.

And nobody could stop me. Muahahahahaha!

...Ahem.

[Coidzor]

As for the whole mindrape/sanctify the wicked thing... does nobody see a problem with that? Yeah, bad things are bad, that doesn't give you the right to basically destroy free will.
Do you really think having the power gives you the authority to decide what's right or wrong for everyone?

The main problem is that it could attract attention and then you'd have to deal with that disguised persona being a hero/villain/god. No one's really going to complain all that vocally if suddenly there's no longer a major human slavery/trafficking problem or there's peace that breaks out between various warlords and warring tribes.

A wizard has as much right as any mundane efforts to put an end to these evils, and far more effective tools at their disposal. Tools that are inherently non-lethal in addition to the usual massive property destruction and collateral damage. Sure, the wizard could just send out an army of solar simulacrums to make a big show of scouring the earth to brutally murder those who abuse, rape, kill, and murder their fellows, but then they're dead and can't even try to begin make amends. They could also be more subtle about it, too, but at the end of the day, it becomes a question of how much evil does one stand by and let happen when one could easily stop it from happening.

Also, the caster doesn't define right or wrong for everyone, they don't even define "Evil" when going the Sanctify the Wicked route. They just determine where the person being so sanctified ends up along the law-chaos axis, and not even by their own choice so much as their nature. So they're not deciding what's right or wrong for everyone if they go the sanctify the wicked route. They're explicitly reforming everyone who already was wrong in a cosmic sense, and giving them a year of solitary confinement to boot.

You could go ahead and destroy free will entirely, but the main argument against that is that it would be boring and a little bit tedious to go through and reprogram every human on the planet.


Nah, shock-and-awe man, that's the way to do it:smallcool:

Crushing them completely should force them to reevaluate any future reprisals since they can easily replace leaders. But then again, I'm just a paranoid 20th level wizard, and want to make sure nothing can take action against me:smallredface:

Then you'd want the opposite. Leaders don't view themselves as expendable. They don't want to be replaced. They will take great pains to avoid being offed. Making an enemy out of an entire culture by killing them indiscriminately and in a flashy, wasteful manner just leads to the age old problem of having people get it into their heads to play the hero to gain vengeance for their dead kinfolk and the like. And then you start getting into the evil overlord list. And while you can scour an entire nation to dust before your might, it gets a bit tedious.


Mind control and brainwashing is one of the things most people can't accept, right next to all those you listed. It could be classified under bullying or torture, and it would cause irreversible, traumatic something to people.

So you'd prefer if that something was death then? Eternal imprisonment in a block of quintessence? Being turned into something which is not human? Being converted into mud, mixed with water, and consumed by the population of a town or city? An honest to goodness Rogue's Gallery of statues? Pillar of salt?

I'm sure there's other ways for the Wizard to deal with reprobates that are slipping my mind.

[Jack_Simth]

A wizard has as much right as any mundane efforts to put an end to these evils, and far more effective tools at their disposal. Tools that are inherently non-lethal in addition to the usual massive property destruction and collateral damage. Sure, the wizard could just send out an army of solar simulacrums to make a big show of scouring the earth to brutally murder those who abuse, rape, kill, and murder their fellows, but then they're dead and can't even try to begin make amends. They could also be more subtle about it, too, but at the end of the day, it becomes a question of how much evil does one stand by and let happen when one could easily stop it from happening.Warning: You are engaging in a debate on a subject that is not really debatable without specific mutally agreed-upon authoritaties on the matter. Everyone applies differing moral weights to the value of life, free will, liberty, and other things... the trouble is, the relative moral weights are not something that can fundamentally be argued. They're also things that people tend to feel rather passionately about.

Or to put this another way:
Suppose you have the ability to snap your fingers, and snuff out anyone anywhere, by method of remotely and anonymously seeding them with something that slowly amps up direct stimulation to their brain's pain centres over the course of a few days until they literally die from raw agony (and once started, it cannot be stopped or undone).

At what level of 'bad behaviour' do you use it on someone (Genocide? Mass murder? Mass Rape? Single murder? Single Rape? Mass Grand Theft? Single Grand Theft? Mass Petty Theft? Single petty theft? Mass Insult? Single Insult? Mass slavery? Single slavery? Et cetera)? What standard of evidence will you require before you use it (Personally witnessed? Witnessed by someone you trust? Witnessed by someone you think is probably telling the truth? Almost anyone says so? You can't find anyone else who could have reasonable done it? Et cetera).

Can you see someone else picking a different thresholds for the level of bad behaviour required and standard of evidence? Do you really think you could argue specific lines in such a way that does *not* rely on some set of unprovable assumptions?

[WarKitty]

The philosopher would like to stay far, far away from directly messing with people's heads, mkay?

Honestly, I'd rather go about doing things like making lots of food and getting people decent jobs and all that sort of thing. And I'd want to do it in as much of an under-the-radar way as possible. Set up a charitable foundation and use magic to secretly remove obstacles to my plans. Build a science laboratory, use divination to figure out the right theories and how to prove them using mundane science. Create super-strains of staple crops and distribute them freely. Use my simulacra to create a massive corporation and start setting up factories in areas with low jobs. Use divination and my massively boosted intelligence to solve complex economic issues. All sorts of things that could greatly improve the world without ever having to hint at "magic" to anyone.

[Rubik]

The philosopher would like to stay far, far away from directly messing with people's heads, mkay?

Honestly, I'd rather go about doing things like making lots of food and getting people decent jobs and all that sort of thing. And I'd want to do it in as much of an under-the-radar way as possible. Set up a charitable foundation and use magic to secretly remove obstacles to my plans. Build a science laboratory, use divination to figure out the right theories and how to prove them using mundane science. Create super-strains of staple crops and distribute them freely. Use my simulacra to create a massive corporation and start setting up factories in areas with low jobs. Use divination and my massively boosted intelligence to solve complex economic issues. All sorts of things that could greatly improve the world without ever having to hint at "magic" to anyone.You could make a completely scarcity-free economy. Who needs jobs when you can literally fabricate anything you could want from scratch?

Literally nobody would have to work if they didn't want. Education would still be important due to keeping information alive and advancing culture and making new magical discoveries, but jobs are now for people who want to work at doing what they find important or fun, and are no longer required for anyone, assuming you use your abilities wisely.

[WarKitty]

You could make a completely scarcity-free economy. Who needs jobs when you can literally fabricate anything you could want from scratch?

Literally nobody would have to work if they didn't want. Education would still be important due to keeping information alive and advancing culture and making new magical discoveries, but jobs are now for people who want to work at doing what they find important or fun, and are no longer required for anyone, assuming you use your abilities wisely.

Eh, I don't want to be introducing magic too openly into the world. The way I worded things (not sure I copied it all here) I don't think I'd be able to teach anyone else magic. I'm more of a work myself out of a job type. That means no magic traps either as a long-term solution.

[Rubik]

Eh, I don't want to be introducing magic too openly into the world. The way I worded things (not sure I copied it all here) I don't think I'd be able to teach anyone else magic. I'm more of a work myself out of a job type. That means no magic traps either as a long-term solution.Well, just because nobody can cast spells doesn't mean they couldn't use magic. Magic traps of rings of three wishes could mean that everyone gets what they want whenever they want. Every scarcity-based problem on the planet disappears, as do a host of others. And so long as all the Evil people are disposed of somehow -- how is unimportant -- and so long as the general Wisdom scores of everyone are high enough for people to think about what they're doing before they do it -- hence my plan to boost everyone's mental stats heftily -- then things should go rather smoothly for everyone.

I know *I* don't want to slave in a menial job for the rest of my life. If someone else decides they want to, I'm not going to stop them, but I think the general happiness quotient of most people would improve if at least given the option. If someone could do that for me and everyone else for little to no effort, but they refuse, that's just jerkish selfishness on their part. Or at least, that's how they'll seem to everyone else.

[ArcturusV]

Heh. I wonder about that. Makes me think of... Dragons of the Emerald Sea I think, John Ringo book. One character talking to another about how people just always focus on the worst in the world. Guy's bitching about how rough life is, how everything sucks, war, mutants, the decline of their super magic science of tippyverse levels...

To which it's pointed out he's bitching about how bad life is... while he's on a tropical island, warm sun, soft sand, with a bevy of hot girls who want to jump him, with no danger within a thousand miles of where they are at the moment, and nothing else to do but enjoy the moment.

It's the nature of people to always think things suck. Even if you gave them what they wanted, they'd still complain. Least if they're working still, and making a life for themselves they'll feel like there is progress rather than be helplessly at the whim of whatever Benevolent Overlord Tim the Enchanter feels like giving them.

[WarKitty]

Well, just because nobody can cast spells doesn't mean they couldn't use magic. Magic traps of rings of three wishes could mean that everyone gets what they want whenever they want. Every scarcity-based problem on the planet disappears, as do a host of others. And so long as all the Evil people are disposed of somehow -- how is unimportant -- and so long as the general Wisdom scores of everyone are high enough for people to think about what they're doing before they do it -- hence my plan to boost everyone's mental stats heftily -- then things should go rather smoothly for everyone.

I know *I* don't want to slave in a menial job for the rest of my life. If someone else decides they want to, I'm not going to stop them, but I think the general happiness quotient of most people would improve if at least given the option. If someone could do that for me and everyone else for little to no effort, but they refuse, that's just jerkish selfishness on their part. Or at least, that's how they'll seem to everyone else.

I'm not even sure real people have scores like that. But you could get people out of menial jobs - maybe not as quickly, but it could be done. Granting everyone access to magic is probably a bad idea, and even without that what happens when something breaks?

No, my plan would be to start by fixing the economy around the world, and then slowly work to reduce the amount of time people need to work. Maybe get everyone to a 20hr work week.

But key in this scenario is that I don't want people to even know that magic exists. I want them to see a brilliant scientist here, a daring and remarkable diplomat there, a wildly successful company spreading, etc. Geniuses, but mundane geniuses. Not magicians from the realm of fantasy.

[Xar Zarath]

I'm not even sure real people have scores like that. But you could get people out of menial jobs - maybe not as quickly, but it could be done. Granting everyone access to magic is probably a bad idea, and even without that what happens when something breaks?

No, my plan would be to start by fixing the economy around the world, and then slowly work to reduce the amount of time people need to work. Maybe get everyone to a 20hr work week.

But key in this scenario is that I don't want people to even know that magic exists. I want them to see a brilliant scientist here, a daring and remarkable diplomat there, a wildly successful company spreading, etc. Geniuses, but mundane geniuses. Not magicians from the realm of fantasy.

I like your ideas in your earlier post. Indeed it would be nice to help people out with cheaper resources etc, and being regarded as one of the most able scientist/diplomat/philanthropist etc. But I think for me, at that point, I probably would not be on Earth anymore.
Maybe retire to the Elemental Plane of Air, living in a magical mansion and return to Earth briefly from time to time. Because for me, if I am found out there is no way it can end well. At the same time, being immortal and so powerful ruling/manipulating/leading the populace will never work out in the long term.
The Immortal can never rule the Mortal.
In the end your goals and views might not change and you are set in your ways while the world and civilization moves on. Better to stay on a plane where the inhabitants are immortals and whose views are just as similar or close as can be.

[Coidzor]

Warning: You are engaging in a debate on a subject that is not really debatable without specific mutally agreed-upon authoritaties on the matter. Everyone applies differing moral weights to the value of life, free will, liberty, and other things... the trouble is, the relative moral weights are not something that can fundamentally be argued. They're also things that people tend to feel rather passionately about.

Or to put this another way:
Suppose you have the ability to snap your fingers, and snuff out anyone anywhere, by method of remotely and anonymously seeding them with something that slowly amps up direct stimulation to their brain's pain centres over the course of a few days until they literally die from raw agony (and once started, it cannot be stopped or undone).

At what level of 'bad behaviour' do you use it on someone (Genocide? Mass murder? Mass Rape? Single murder? Single Rape? Mass Grand Theft? Single Grand Theft? Mass Petty Theft? Single petty theft? Mass Insult? Single Insult? Mass slavery? Single slavery? Et cetera)? What standard of evidence will you require before you use it (Personally witnessed? Witnessed by someone you trust? Witnessed by someone you think is probably telling the truth? Almost anyone says so? You can't find anyone else who could have reasonable done it? Et cetera).

Can you see someone else picking a different thresholds for the level of bad behaviour required and standard of evidence? Do you really think you could argue specific lines in such a way that does *not* rely on some set of unprovable assumptions?
I believe instead that you're missing the point, as are the people experiencing moral outrage here. People were arguing that 1. a wizard that is like unto a god has no right to use their power unless they're just straight up murdering people and declaring war on humanity and 2. that people with an Evil alignment have more rights than people without an Evil alignment (murder armies, world leaders, and massive numbers of civilians? that's just good clean being a wizard fun. reform people who are honest-to-goodness bad guys? unacceptable!).

Which is ridiculous when you're talking about that level of power unless you've got a fetish for Reed Richards is useless. And, since it's not even a discussion of the real world, any umbrage is ultimately misplaced. It's a discussion of how best to treat an only mildly fictionalized version of the real world as a plaything assuming X.

That's why I was pulling for the sanctify the wicked thing anyway, until Rubik pointed out that bad editing means that they unequivocably hate the caster, and making some significant fraction of humanity hate the caster doesn't help with keeping attention off of the caster itself, even if they don't know who the caster was, they'll be aware that there was a caster. Otherwise it'd be really lulzy that so many people disappeared and then reappeared a year later, completely changed (and, as has been discussed many times, it's probably some kind of variant of the perfect argument rather than the usually macabre imaginings of people when they discuss things. It's actually kind of funny how people build up even the regular version of Mindrape to be worse than it actually is, too. Always insisting that it causes cancer and other deleterious effects not covered in the spell)

[Xar Zarath]

If this thread still needs more ideas, might I suggest Fatespinner Prc. Its good to have the odds in your favour and all that.

Or perhaps Mindbender?