[PF/3.5] Prepared Casters or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Wizards

[GhostwheelZ]

So title aside, I hate prepared spellcasting. HATE it. So. Freaking much. It's why I refuse to play wizards and witches, and have a ton of trouble playing a magus. In order to combat that, I came up with this variant, and hopefully will get some critique on it, as well as how it changes the game, for better or for worse, and how to make it better.

Note that this variant puts the majority of casters all on the same schedule of receiving spells, except for specialist wizards and clerics, though they can only cast a single spell of higher level per day (which shouldn't be too bad as long as you're not playing at one encounter per day... and at that point, I feel like something might already be wrong).

Prepared Spontaneous Casting

I don't know about you, but I've always hated prepared casting. The choosing, the inability to cast spells at one's whim, and so on. The downside, however, is that sometimes for whatever reason you want to play a spellcaster with the prepared chassis--just without the actual way they prepare spells. To fix that, the following variant was created.

How it Works

Prepared casters gain a "spells known" list equal to one less than the number of spells they can prepare per day from class levels (not including spells granted by high ability scores, with a minimum one first-level spell at first level), which can be changed per day when they would normally prepare spells (and follow the normal limits of spellcasting, such as wizards being only able to prepare spells listed in their spellbook). Casters then may freely cast spells that they have prepared, these prepared spells effectively becoming their "spells known" for the day. Their number of spells per day is the number they would normally be able to prepare for that level.

In order to cast a metamagic version of a spell, they must prepare (and thus add to their known list for the day) the metamagic version of the spell beforehand at its metamagic-affected level using metamagic feats rather than being able to apply it spontaneously.

Clerics and specialist wizards are a bit of an exception to the rule as they can prepare an additional spell from one of their domains or specialty school per day. They would get this normally but would only be able to cast it once per day (just like a normal cleric or specialist wizard), even if they were able to cast more spells for that day.

For example a level 5 specialist (Evocation) wizard with 20 Intelligence would be able to prepare and cast the following:
Level 0: Four spells known, four cast throughout the day.
Level 1: Three spells known, five cast throughout the day.
Level 2: Two spell known, three cast throughout the day.
Level 3: One spell known, two cast throughout the day.

This could be an example of their spell list:
Level 0: Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Read Magic, Light (Once per day)
Level 1: Disguise Self, Enlarge Person, Magic Missile (One per day)
Level 2: Extended Mage Armor, Scorching Ray (Once per day)
Level 3: Fireball (Once per day)

If the above character were not a specialist, they would have one less spell per level, and would be unable to cast any 3rd level spells.

[GhostwheelZ]

Anyone? Not a single response? Bump :-3

[Amnoriath]

So title aside, I hate prepared spellcasting. HATE it. So. Freaking much. It's why I refuse to play wizards and witches, and have a ton of trouble playing a magus. In order to combat that, I came up with this variant, and hopefully will get some critique on it, as well as how it changes the game, for better or for worse, and how to make it better.

Note that this variant puts the majority of casters all on the same schedule of receiving spells, except for specialist wizards and clerics, though they can only cast a single spell of higher level per day (which shouldn't be too bad as long as you're not playing at one encounter per day... and at that point, I feel like something might already be wrong).

Prepared Spontaneous Casting

I don't know about you, but I've always hated prepared casting. The choosing, the inability to cast spells at one's whim, and so on. The downside, however, is that sometimes for whatever reason you want to play a spellcaster with the prepared chassis--just without the actual way they prepare spells. To fix that, the following variant was created.

How it Works

Prepared casters gain a "spells known" list equal to one less than the number of spells they can prepare per day from class levels (not including spells granted by high ability scores, with a minimum one first-level spell at first level), which can be changed per day when they would normally prepare spells (and follow the normal limits of spellcasting, such as wizards being only able to prepare spells listed in their spellbook). Casters then may freely cast spells that they have prepared, these prepared spells effectively becoming their "spells known" for the day. Their number of spells per day is the number they would normally be able to prepare for that level.

In order to cast a metamagic version of a spell, they must prepare (and thus add to their known list for the day) the metamagic version of the spell beforehand at its metamagic-affected level using metamagic feats rather than being able to apply it spontaneously.

Clerics and specialist wizards are a bit of an exception to the rule as they can prepare an additional spell from one of their domains or specialty school per day. They would get this normally but would only be able to cast it once per day (just like a normal cleric or specialist wizard), even if they were able to cast more spells for that day.

For example a level 5 specialist (Evocation) wizard with 20 Intelligence would be able to prepare and cast the following:
Level 0: Four spells known, four cast throughout the day.
Level 1: Three spells known, five cast throughout the day.
Level 2: Two spell known, three cast throughout the day.
Level 3: One spell known, two cast throughout the day.

This could be an example of their spell list:
Level 0: Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Read Magic, Light (Once per day)
Level 1: Disguise Self, Enlarge Person, Magic Missile (One per day)
Level 2: Extended Mage Armor, Scorching Ray (Once per day)
Level 3: Fireball (Once per day)

If the above character were not a specialist, they would have one less spell per level, and would be unable to cast any 3rd level spells.

That is basically the Spirit Shaman' s spell retrieval mechanic.

[GhostwheelZ]

Didn't need to quote the whole thing :-P

That said, had forgotten about that class completely. So does using it make the wizard too strong? Less strong? About the same? Does it shaft sorcs? Also looking back at the Spirit Shaman, they get more spells/day, should this get the same?

[Amnoriath]

Didn't need to quote the whole thing :-P

That said, had forgotten about that class completely. So does using it make the wizard too strong? Less strong? About the same? Does it shaft sorcs? Also looking back at the Spirit Shaman, they get more spells/day, should this get the same?

The sorcerer' s long term strength comes from easy metamagic. The real strength of the Spirit Shaman' s is the ability to prepare from one list and than make a back up list for whatever situation. Ultimately it frees up wealth and makes it easier because normally the wizard would be buying or crafting this specific magic wand, scroll..etc. This gives later level on the spot versatility.
Also, I wouldn't change spells prepared to the Spirit Shaman. It gives room for your specialists to make ground while having a slightly larger lis known.

[Just to Browse]

It's glorious. It simultaneously curbs the batman problem (less stuff available) while encouraging players to choose flexible things (good spells can be re-cast with no extra consumption of knowledge resources).

If I had good enough internet to post the M. Bison gif I would do it now.

[GhostwheelZ]

Thanks, that means a lot :-)

See any way to improve it? Is it a clear buff/nerf to wizards/clerics/druids/magi/witches, or does it keep them in the same place? Are sorcs still worth taking even after this variant? Or does it shaft them?

[Just to Browse]

I feel like it's a nerf to any caster with divination and the capability to plan, but on average I'll bet most players will benefit more from this. Not sure if that's good or bad.

Sorcerers are totally not worth taking. It was obvious beforehand, but it'd be more obvious with this fix. I think most of the draw for sorcerers was that they were easy to play, and now that wizards and such are easy (easier) to play, sorcerer usage would drop. That's just conjecture though.

[GhostwheelZ]

So it's not that it makes them worse comparatively, but rather that they were always worse, and this solidifies it not because it makes prepared casters more versatile, but because it makes them easier/more fun to play?

[Lord Raziere]

uuh….as a sorcerer fan, I'm still kind of confused actually. (first read through)

that and if its pathfinder, I don't really care. in 3.5 sorcerer was more awesome because it was more balanced and more social. in PF its awesome because that AND you get bloodlines. and bloodlines are awesome to me.

that and mechanics are kind of a backseat thing for me. wizard and sorcerer to me are two archetypes that far more important beyond mere mechanics

(rereading:)

hmmm….so you basically choose the spells you prepare, as a general list, then the list itself can be spontaneously cast? meh. as a sorcerer fan, I'm still not really digging it. one could still prepare for anything, which is still too strong. either that or you've made the Wizard little different from the sorcerer, which is a waste of a good sorcerer if you ask me.

[Just to Browse]

So it's not that it makes them worse comparatively, but rather that they were always worse, and this solidifies it not because it makes prepared casters more versatile, but because it makes them easier/more fun to play?

Yes, effectively. I think it makes prep casters a little more versatile too, but most of the draw will probably be "Oh I can finally cast fireball over and over and still prepare a potential see invisibility!", which ousts the whole concept of flexibility that the sorcerer had going for it.

Honestly this is a system I would put in my game without much question. It just needs a sorcerer rewrite, or perhaps a sorcerous wizard ACF.

[Amnoriath]

uuh….as a sorcerer fan, I'm still kind of confused actually. (first read through)

that and if its pathfinder, I don't really care. in 3.5 sorcerer was more awesome because it was more balanced and more social. in PF its awesome because that AND you get bloodlines. and bloodlines are awesome to me.

that and mechanics are kind of a backseat thing for me. wizard and sorcerer to me are two archetypes that far more important beyond mere mechanics

(rereading:)

hmmm….so you basically choose the spells you prepare, as a general list, then the list itself can be spontaneously cast? meh. as a sorcerer fan, I'm still not really digging it. one could still prepare for anything, which is still too strong. either that or you've made the Wizard little different from the sorcerer, which is a waste of a good sorcerer if you ask me.

Basically, yes, but what you actually want to do is the next day keep the list to prepare from and then change your list. This way you can actually have more versatility.

[Lord Raziere]

Basically, yes, but what you actually want to do is the next day keep the list to prepare from and then change your list. This way you can actually have more versatility.

and? thats exactly what I don't want. thats too strong. I don't want that. I want a thematic caster that actually has to solve things in a non-instant way that doesn't allow me auto-win forever.

[Just to Browse]

I believe he was rephrasing it to make sure you understood what the concept was about, rather than suggesting a fix. You sounded like you might need some help clearing up the idea in your post.

[Amnoriath]

and? thats exactly what I don't want. thats too strong. I don't want that. I want a thematic caster that actually has to solve things in a non-instant way that doesn't allow me auto-win forever.

You don't have every spell for every situation. What happens is you prepare from list A and you will have a couple repeated spells because you know less than you can prepare typical. Then once that is done you can "summon" a new list B for the day effectively giving you a max of 6 known spells per level of spell. This actually allows to have a different set of spells outside the ones you prepared if you need them without opening up the encyclopedia and crafting items giving you every spell known in the game if you have the resources.

[GhostwheelZ]

Actually, before domains or specialty schools (which only give one extra spell per day per level), at level 20 you'll have max of 3 spells prepared/known per level. So that's still a lot less than the sorcerer. The main difference is that you can switch those 3 per level every day, rather than being stuck with them--though you can only switch them when you prepare spells, so you need to think ahead or else that See Invisibility you prepared might never get cast. On the upside, even if you prepared See Invis, you could still use all your spell cast for the day on Scorching Ray so no 2nd level spells are wasted.

[Amnoriath]

Actually, before domains or specialty schools (which only give one extra spell per day per level), at level 20 you'll have max of 3 spells prepared/known per level. So that's still a lot less than the sorcerer. The main difference is that you can switch those 3 per level every day, rather than being stuck with them--though you can only switch them when you prepare spells, so you need to think ahead or else that See Invisibility you prepared might never get cast. On the upside, even if you prepared See Invis, you could still use all your spell cast for the day on Scorching Ray so no 2nd level spells are wasted.

Yes, but what I described is what the Spirit Shaman could do and I didn't see any distinction that the change of the list must be done before you prepared the spells so I assumed it was the same. Ergo: max 3+max 3= max 6

[GhostwheelZ]

Right--when I wrote this, I forgot about the Spirit Shaman; reread the actual thingy, they get about the same spells prepared ("retrieved") per day to a max of 3 per spell level per day, but less overall spells per day (equal to what wizards usually get, 4 per spell level per day before bonuses).