[PF]Monk + Deadly/Gifted Fist Build? (Help me Psyren!)

[13_CBS]

After reading Psyren's Soulknife guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203014), I was inspired to try building a Soulknife--in particular, a "Soulfist", mixing the Deadly Fist and Gifted Fist archetypes plus some Monk dips. Unfortunately, I'm not all that familiar with Pathfinder (and not all that great with 3.5 anyway), so I'd like some help with building this character.

Character concept: Wisknife psychic monk who specializes in punching people, mixed with some support and flexibility via psychic powers. So an unarmed gish, leaning more on the punchy than the casty. I could probably make things easier on myself by going Psychic Warrior, but I wanted to give this a shot.

Since I'd like to use this build one day in my real-life game, it'll likely have to go by the following restrictions:

1) Pathfinder only for the most part, 3.5 material on a case-by-case basis

2) Start from level 1, likely end around level 12 or 15, must be able to contribute at all level

3) Low to mid op (the other guys in my group are pretty low op--not WotC low op, but pretty low op)

4) Standard WBL

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My current build idea is this:

Deadly-Gifted Fist 2/ Master of Many Styles Monk 2/Deadly-Gifted Fist X

Race: Duergar

Stats (15 point buy):
STR: 10
DEX: 12
CON: 16 (14 +2 from Duergar racial bonus)
INT: 12
WIS: 18 (16 +2 from Duergar racial bonus)
CHA: 5 (7 -2 from Duergar racial penalty)

Feats:
Level 1: Combat Expertise
Soulknife 1 (Level 1): Weapon Focus (Mind Blade)
Level 3: Psionic Meditation
Monk 1 (Level 3): Monkey Style
Monk 2 (Level 4): Snapping Turtle Style
Level 5: Expanded Knowledge (Inertial Armor)
Etc.

Blade Skills:
Soulknife 2: Focused Offense
Soulknife 4: Flurry of Fists
Soulknife 6: Focused Defense
Soulknife 8: Mental Power (Psionic Lion's Charge)
The rest of the Blade Skills will likely go towards the Flurry of Fists line and Mental Power.

That's what I've got so far. Any suggestions? What sort of equipment should I get? Are there any other options worth looking into?

[Novawurmson]

You're looking pretty solid so far. Note that you can't pick up Psionic Meditation until level 4 - it requires 4 ranks in Autohypnosis.

Crystal Guantlets (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/equipment/psionic-items/crystalline-focus-items) are probably worth picking up.

[NamelessNPC]

What is Deadly-Gifted Fist X?

Do you mean Psychic fist? If so, the you can't enter until lvl 7, because it needs for 6 ranks in acrobatics

[Novawurmson]

What is Deadly-Gifted Fist X?

Do you mean Psychic fist? If so, the you can't enter until lvl 7, because it needs for 6 ranks in acrobatics

Deadly Fist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/archetypes/dreamscarred-press/deadly-fist) is an unarmed archetype for the Soulknife. Gifted Blade (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/archetypes/dreamscarred-press/gifted-blade) is a soulknife archetype that gets manifesting on par with a Paladin or Ranger's spellcasting.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I don't particularly like Snapping Turtle style.

And I would suggest either not doing a 2nd MoMS monk level at all, or if you do... wait till later, when you have already acquired another base style feat on your own, so you can use that 2nd level bonus feat slot to bypass all the other requirements for a really nice latter feat in the chain. Especially if you'd like to get a nice 3rd feat that's blocked by a terribad 2nd feat (like Snake Fang or Tiger Pounce).
EDIT: Totally misread your feats. Ok, the above advice applies for BOTH monk levels. Get the base style feat on your own (it can be on the same level you enter the class; just do it on an odd level and spend your general feat) and use those precious bonus feat slots for early entry / pre-req skipping. Do not use them on the base style feats, that's a huge waste!

Crane and Snake (skipping snake sidewind) are my favorite styles, and they mix together quite well, too.

I'd also suggest dropping Psionic Meditation and any plans/feats/hopes/dreams that involve burning your psionic focus. Focused Offense only works while you have psionic focus, and you're pretty crippled without it. Aside from ambushes when sleeping, you really should not need to gain psionic focus in combat. Ever.

[Findaleus]

(Always wanted to do this kind of build, myself. :smallbiggrin:)

Flurry of Fists is granted by Deadly Fist at 1st level with IUS (see Unarmed Assault). You could bump Focused Defense up to SK4 and take Improved FoF at SK6, if you wanted.

Also, Combat Expertise requires Int 13+. Is there a method of qualifying for it that I'm missing?

Also also, seconding the wait with MoMS monk levels until you've picked up base style feats. The ability to ignore prerequisites can be quite potent. Plus, going SK3 with your first three levels brings your manifesting online two levels earlier. <obvious>You could take EK at 3 instead of 5, then!</obvious> ...which, now that I look at it, Inertial Armor is already on the GB power list, yes? Are you just trying to get that and, say, Expansion ASAP?

AFB right now, but I thought there was a way to improved unarmed damage via feats in Psionics Expanded (not Psionic Fist; gotta keep that pfocus). I could just be thinking of Superior Unarmed Strike from ToB--which, IMHO, if you're going to try to argue for any 3.5 material, I'd try for that. Sure there are mechanically better ones available, but nothing else quite has that make-someone-stop-living-with-your-fists feel to it. (Disclaimer: yes, yes, IUS isn't just fists.)

[Psyren]

I have a visceral reaction to any build with a stat below 8 :smallyuk:


(Help me Psyren!)

Sounds like you're getting plenty of good advice :smallbiggrin:

FYI, I stated this elsewhere but I'll go ahead and repeat it here - my psionics handbooks are all on hiatus until I get my hands on UPsi. I'm using the window instead to work on my handbook for the Occultist.

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Looking at the build:

1) Note that Deadly Fists get IUS as the bonus feat, so you won't get Weapon Focus. Unfortunately, you're also getting this from Monk, so it's a bit of a waste, but those are the breaks.

2) As others have said, you don't qualify for Combat Expertise. Take Dodge instead (followed by Crane Style as Stream suggested.)

3) You get Flurry of Fists for free with your 1st level of Soulknife, so you'll need to redo your bladeskills.

4) Are Traits allowed? It's not in the PFSRD yet, but there's a trait called Psionic Knack that will help with your manifester level.

[13_CBS]

Thanks for the help, everyone!

Alright, let's try this again...


Deadly-Gifted Fist 8 / Master of Many Styles 2 / Deadly-Gifted Fist X

Race: Duergar

Stats (15 point buy):
STR: 10
DEX: 12
CON: 16 (14 +2 from Duergar racial bonus)
INT: 12
WIS: 18 (16 +2 from Duergar racial bonus)
CHA: 5 (7 -2 from Duergar racial penalty)

Feats:
Level 1: Dodge
Level 3: Crane Style
Level 5: Snake Style
Level 7: Crane Wing
Level 9: Snake Sidewind
Monk 1 (Level 9): Snake Fang
Monk 2 (Level 10): Crane Riposte


Blade Skills:
Soulknife 2: Focused Offense
Soulknife 4: Focused Defense
Soulknife 6: Improved Flurry of Fists
Soulknife 8: Mental Power (Inertial Armor)
Soulknife 10: Greater Flurry of Fists

And the rest into Mental Power, I suppose, unless there are better Blade Skills for a Gifted-Deadly Fist?

Any suggestions for equipment?


I have a visceral reaction to any build with a stat below 8 :smallyuk:

*Shrug* I'm MAD enough as it is (unless I'm able to dump Dex and Int), I can't afford to make my Cha 10.



4) Are Traits allowed? It's not in the PFSRD yet, but there's a trait called Psionic Knack that will help with your manifester level/

They are, but until it gets to the PFSRD I'm afraid I won't have access to it.

[StreamOfTheSky]

You don't need Snake Sidewind in the current set up. When you enter Monk at 9, you already have Snake Style. That's all MoMS requires for you to take Snake Fang as a bonus feat. And Sidewind is pretty freaking worthless. Get another Blade Skill or something.

If your DM won't allow things not in d20pfsrd, ask about taking Magical Knack by way of "psionics-magi transparency." If you haven't yet, avoid even mentioning that there IS a psionic version. That will make it seem like there's less reason to allow the transparency, even though he wouldn't allow you to take Psionic Knack for not being on the site anyway.

[13_CBS]

You don't need Snake Sidewind in the current set up. When you enter Monk at 9, you already have Snake Style. That's all MoMS requires for you to take Snake Fang as a bonus feat. And Sidewind is pretty freaking worthless. Get another Blade Skill or something.

Alright, one last time, just feats...

Feats:
Level 1: Dodge
Level 3: Crane Style
Level 5: Snake Style
Level 7: Crane Wing
Level 9: Extra Blade Skill (Reaching Blade)
Monk 1 (Level 9): Snake Fang
Monk 2 (Level 10): Crane Riposte

That should do it, I think.