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The Evil Moose
2013-10-09, 09:54 PM
I'm in a game on roll20.net and one of the players refuses to use a mic and types everything out instead. It really bothers me because it tends to slow down the game and makes things feel very disjointed when one person is using text while everyone else is using voice. When I asked her about it she refuses to use a mic. Should I just deal with it or kick her out? I'm not sure how much it will end up slowing things down. I suppose it's not a big deal but I find dealing with things like this in a game I'm running extremely frustrating :smallfrown:

OverdrivePrime
2013-10-09, 10:10 PM
What's the cost of kicking the player out vs the cost of keeping her in your game? Are the other players annoyed? Does it mess with game? Do the other players mind or are you the only one who's bothered?

Is the player a friend? A friend of the other players? If so, there's a pretty high social cost associated with kicking the player out for not being comfortable using a microphone.

The Evil Moose
2013-10-09, 10:13 PM
Low cost, the game hasn't been going for that long so I don't know what the other players think. We are all strangers so kicking one out for the good of the group has little cost. I guess what frustrates me the most is I feel like I'm the only one bothered by it :smalleek:
I'm pretty much just venting at this point rather than asking for advice :smalltongue:

Forrestfire
2013-10-09, 10:32 PM
Well, personally, I'm on the side of the player here. A lot of players (myself included) feel much more confident/comfortable roleplaying through text. Maybe this is the issue?

If it is, you might be able to meet halfway and ask her to use the mic for OoC chat.

Although I guess the question to ask is: have you asked why she doesn't want to use voice communications? Maybe she plays in a place with other people around, or doesn't even have a mic... I know that I had to buy a headset before my computer had a microphone.

In any case, good luck resolving the issue :smallsmile:

mucat
2013-10-09, 10:53 PM
We are all strangers so kicking one out for the good of the group has little cost.
It could easily cost you the respect of the other players, and break up the group before it really gets started. Nothing in your post suggests that you've asked her why she prefers text. As Forrestfire pointed out, she could be playing from a public place where talking on a headset would be rude (if it's a coffee shop) or just not allowed at all (if it's a library.)

If you think the speed mismatch is a problem (although you said that the other players don't seem to see it as one), then you could brainstorm with her about how to best keep things flowing at a brisk place. One thing that might make a big difference is agreeing on a quick signal she can type -- possibly as simple as "..." -- that means "Hold up a second; longer post incoming." That way, whenever you don't get that signal, you can go ahead with the action without waiting to see whether she's still typing.

huttj509
2013-10-09, 11:02 PM
Reason's I've seen people not like using mics with strangers online:

a) No microphone

b) Stutter, or other vocal mannerism they feel self conscious about.

c) Lives with other people, so while typing would be fine, talking would infringe on the shared auditory space. This sort of thing can vary strongly with the people involved.

The Evil Moose
2013-10-09, 11:06 PM
She said it was because of shyness and preference of typing. This is really more of a problem of me getting upset easily rather than of her typing too slow. :smallfrown: A lot of why I don't like doing non solo games is that I feel very controlling at times and find dealing with other players very tiresome when our playstyles don't match very well. I suppose the biggest problem I have with her typing rather than speaking is that it means what she says gets overlooked very easily and I feel like I'm being rude when I end up sort of speaking for her in order to get the DM to notice. And another aspect is that I put a very large amount of energy into playing and trying to roleplay and think in a way that will give the DM and other players an enjoyable game I find it frustrating when someone else isn't willing to put the same amount of effort, this attitude I have is something that I really dislike about myself sometimes since it's in a way, a pretty self-centered way of thinking.
Ahhhh so much venting, sorry about this, I never speak to others about my personal problems so as soon as I start writing on an internet forum I end up pouring my heart out.

FlurriesRus
2013-10-09, 11:42 PM
because of shyness . . . I find it frustrating when someone else isn't willing to put the same amount of effort

Hey, if she's having issues with shyness maybe even just roleplaying through text IS putting out at least as much effort as you are even if it's for different reasons.

Roleplaying comes easy to you, personal discussions in real life do not. For some it is the opposite, everyone has different modifiers to different skills :smallwink:

Radar
2013-10-10, 04:15 AM
Reason's I've seen people not like using mics with strangers online:

a) No microphone

b) Stutter, or other vocal mannerism they feel self conscious about.

c) Lives with other people, so while typing would be fine, talking would infringe on the shared auditory space. This sort of thing can vary strongly with the people involved.
This, so very much this. Using a microphone would usualy be more convenient, so I can't picture anyone incoveniencing him/herself just to be contrary. It is more then likely, that there is a reason behind the decision.

Kalmageddon
2013-10-10, 04:46 AM
Does the rest of the group have a problem with this too?

supermonkeyjoe
2013-10-10, 04:57 AM
Seeing as this is a stranger on the internet, statistics would dictate that she doesn't want to use a mic because she is actually a guy :smalltongue:

Or you know, probably shy or something, she at least owes you all the courtesy of saying why she can't use a mic.

Kalmageddon
2013-10-10, 05:28 AM
Seeing as this is a stranger on the internet, statistics would dictate that she doesn't want to use a mic because she is actually a guy :smalltongue:.

Yes, this is what we are all thinking, but in this forum we are not allowed to say it out loud. :smallwink:

supermonkeyjoe
2013-10-10, 05:41 AM
Yes, this is what we are all thinking, but in this forum we are not allowed to say it out loud. :smallwink:

But... the :smalltongue: makes it acceptable right? like if I start by saying "I don't mean to be offensive but..." you can't be offended?

(I can never remember what colour denotes sarcasm on this forum, but the above post should be in such a hue)

tensai_oni
2013-10-10, 05:48 AM
Seeing as this is a stranger on the internet, statistics would dictate that she doesn't want to use a mic because she is actually a guy :smalltongue:

It's likely but it's not the only explanation that makes sense. I'd give the player benefit of doubt for now.



Or you know, probably shy or something, she at least owes you all the courtesy of saying why she can't use a mic.

Yeah, the player did give a reason - said she's shy. Did you miss the OP saying that?


Yes, this is what we are all thinking, but in this forum we are not allowed to say it out loud. :smallwink:

Bullcrap. It's not against any rules.

I know a few people who are either shy or conscious of their own voice - even when dealing with friends, what about strangers on the internet. It does not surprise me that there is someone who'd rather type things out.

Kicking this player out of the group sounds like a gross over-reaction. Other players aren't bothered by it, you (aimed at the OP here) admitted to being easily irritable - I suggest working on that instead.

Berenger
2013-10-10, 07:22 AM
Seeing as this is a stranger on the internet, statistics would dictate that she doesn't want to use a mic because she is actually a guy :smalltongue:

Or, god forbid, she is a person that doesn't speak english as her native language. I, for example, am german. I can read and write english reasonably well, especially when I can take 20 on the check, but apart from that nice old lady on the train last year I had precious little chance to practice my speech and pronunciation since school. I'd be cool do do a Play by Post in english, but I fear I'd neither understand nor be understood well via micro.

Morgarion
2013-10-10, 07:28 AM
I don't mean to be offensive, but I'd personally never use a mic over the internet with a bunch of randos.

Segev
2013-10-10, 07:31 AM
While I agree that, if it's only a mild annoyance, "dealing with it" is probably the best bet, I will point out that, if you told people this would be a game played in voice when they signed up, refusal to do so is like signing up for trumpet in marching band and then insisting that you be allowed to sing your part with a microphone and amp.

Now, if this wasn't a clear requirement going in, she's not in bad form, so I'd recommend dealing with it unless it truly ruins the game.

OverdrivePrime
2013-10-10, 08:43 AM
A lot of why I don't like doing non solo games is that I feel very controlling at times and find dealing with other players very tiresome when our playstyles don't match very well. I suppose the biggest problem I have with her typing rather than speaking is that it means what she says gets overlooked very easily and I feel like I'm being rude when I end up sort of speaking for her in order to get the DM to notice. And another aspect is that I put a very large amount of energy into playing and trying to roleplay and think in a way that will give the DM and other players an enjoyable game I find it frustrating when someone else isn't willing to put the same amount of effort, this attitude I have is something that I really dislike about myself sometimes since it's in a way, a pretty self-centered way of thinking.

Wait a sec... you're not the DM of this game, The Evil Moose? Sorry guy, I don't think you get to make the call on this, no matter what your control issues are.

SiuiS
2013-10-10, 08:45 AM
Seeing as this is a stranger on the internet, statistics would dictate that she doesn't want to use a mic because she is actually a guy :smalltongue:

Or you know, probably shy or something, she at least owes you all the courtesy of saying why she can't use a mic.

If she's transsexual she would, in fact, be a girl with a condition, rather.



Also, OverdrimePrime's post. It's a good one.

DigoDragon
2013-10-10, 09:12 AM
It is more then likely, that there is a reason behind the decision.

Yeah. I can't use a mic with online chats because usually my daughter is asleep in the next room over. Typing is thus, much quieter if a bit slower. The best thing to do is build some patience and accept that some players cannot use mics for whatever reason.

tasw
2013-10-10, 09:38 AM
She said it was because of shyness and preference of typing. This is really more of a problem of me getting upset easily rather than of her typing too slow. :smallfrown: A lot of why I don't like doing non solo games is that I feel very controlling at times and find dealing with other players very tiresome when our playstyles don't match very well. I suppose the biggest problem I have with her typing rather than speaking is that it means what she says gets overlooked very easily and I feel like I'm being rude when I end up sort of speaking for her in order to get the DM to notice. And another aspect is that I put a very large amount of energy into playing and trying to roleplay and think in a way that will give the DM and other players an enjoyable game I find it frustrating when someone else isn't willing to put the same amount of effort, this attitude I have is something that I really dislike about myself sometimes since it's in a way, a pretty self-centered way of thinking.
Ahhhh so much venting, sorry about this, I never speak to others about my personal problems so as soon as I start writing on an internet forum I end up pouring my heart out.

suggestion. stop being a ****.

geeky_monkey
2013-10-10, 10:09 AM
There's only one problem player in this group and it isn't the woman who doesn't want to use a mic.

She's explained why she doesn't want to use one, you aren't the DM, and talking for her character is extremely rude and patronising.

If you don't like it I suggest you find another game to play.

Segev
2013-10-10, 10:19 AM
There's only one problem player in this group and it isn't the woman who doesn't want to use a mic.

She's explained why she doesn't want to use one, you aren't the DM, and talking for her character is extremely rude and patronising.

If you don't like it I suggest you find another game to play.

This level of hostility is uncalled-for. The OP admits in his post he's at least half venting.

As for "speaking for her character," it's pretty clear from contest he means he's saying out loud what she's typing in text in order for the DM to notice.

Frankly, my advice would be for him to stop doing that and not worry about her if he finds her playstyle annoying.

Since the OP is NOT the DM, if the DM is okay with the game as-is, the OP's options are to accept it or find another game. But attacking the OP for asking for advice when he's finding this irksome is bad form.

Seriously, people, not liking something doesn't make you a bad person, even if you think everybody should like it. It always amazes me that the least tolerant people around tend to be those preaching for tolerance.

The Evil Moose
2013-10-10, 01:01 PM
I'm not DMing the game but I got the group together, organize the times and making sure we can get it to work with everyone's schedules and the like so I'm still in the mindset of trying to make sure nothing goes wrong. I've already admitted that it's my mistake and I'd appreciate it if people didn't call me names because that really hurts me a lot. I was thinking of kicking her not as a reaction to not liking something but if it started slowing things down too much, for the good of the game, if it was just bothering me but not slowing down the game I would just leave so I don't waster their time by not enjoying their game.

skyth
2013-10-10, 01:05 PM
In the game I'm running over Skype, one of the players is physically unable to talk. We still get along fine (Other than wondering if she's there sometimes). Granted, Maptools says when someone is typing, so the other players know that she's trying to say something.

The Evil Moose
2013-10-10, 02:33 PM
I have decided to kick the player. It seems unfair but a combination of playing poorly and not using a microphone due to reasons that were not enough to win me over, makes the player not worth keeping in the game. I am the admin of the game so the decision is up to me and I made the decision to the best of my abilities. I know the people in this thread probably think I am a huge jerk now, and I suppose I am :smallfrown:

Xerlith
2013-10-10, 03:41 PM
Did you try to, you know, speak to her first? 1 on 1?

Forrestfire
2013-10-10, 03:47 PM
Or to the DM? Or the other players?

While you may have been the one who organized the group, it really should not be your decision to kick someone. That lies in the DM's hands.

Fallbot
2013-10-10, 03:53 PM
I was thinking of kicking her not as a reaction to not liking something but if it started slowing things down too much, for the good of the game, if it was just bothering me but not slowing down the game I would just leave so I don't waster their time by not enjoying their game.

What happened to change your mind from waiting to see if she slowed things down too much and leaving if you couldn't hack it to straight up kicking her out?

The Evil Moose
2013-10-10, 03:57 PM
What happened to change your mind from waiting to see if she slowed things down too much and leaving if you couldn't hack it to straight up kicking her out?

What happened is that I forgot to take my antidepressants yesterday so I'm all over the place and suicidal and self destructive today and in no state to make decisions that make any sort of sense. Is it okay if I vent without being judged or given advice? I feel so weird these past two days, normally I wouldn't have even noticed something as small as a player not having a mic because it doesnt matter.

Zanos
2013-10-10, 04:04 PM
As someone who was in the same situation before, I'm going to go ahead and side with the OP. While a lot of people are more familiar with RP over text, especially in online games, it bogs down everything a lot and slows the game down massively. We had a player who preferred text, and we just got him to switch over to mic. He was awkward at first, but he's gotten much better and is probably one of the people who gets the most into character now when we play. This isn't a great solution for everyone, but at least try it.

Failing that, ask the other players if they might try typing instead of mic. If that doesn't work out, I'd kick them if the typing/mic thing actually bothers your other players. I know how much it bogs down play and disconnects RP, and your players might be as annoyed as you are.

EDIT: Just noticed the post about who OP is not, in fact, the DM. My advice still holds, although I suggest you bring it up with the DM if it seriously bothers you.


I don't mean to be offensive, but I'd personally never use a mic over the internet with a bunch of randos.
Yes, god forbid someone track you down and find out where you live by the sound of your voice!

The Evil Moose
2013-10-10, 04:27 PM
To clear things up, I am not DMing, but I am more or less running the game if that makes any sense. The DM makes the campaign, I make sure the game goes smoothly, that is why I am stressing over this. I feel like I'm at the point where no matter what I say it will only make me look worse :smallmad: , kind of what I hate about internet forums and speaking to people in general, the words always come out wrong and say something that I don't mean :smallfurious:

Ceiling_Squid
2013-10-10, 04:40 PM
Don't worry about it too excessively.

Honestly, what works for one group will not work for another, so I can't be overly judgemental. Having players communicate in different mediums simultaneously can be frustrating and ruin the "flow" of a game.

Heck, I found it hard enough when one player had to play with a physical group solely through video chat (all the other players were physically present at the table). We had to interact with him through a small video screen and had to micromanage the webcam, since we basically had control of whatever he was able to look at on the game table. But at least we could hear his voice and he could hear ours.

We put up with it though, because he was a regular part of the physical group before he left town, and was a friend. I can see having a lower tolerance for a group of strangers trying to coordinate different communication media.

Just so long as you removed the player from the group in a polite manner, and ran it by everyone first. It's better to handle these sorts of things delicately. Some groups aren't a good fit for one another.

Lord Torath
2013-10-10, 04:46 PM
Moose, all I can say is I hope things calm down for you and you can start feeling more like yourself. Some of my acquaintances are on mood-altering medication, and adjusting to a new dose or missing a dose is always traumatic for them. Feeling like you're not yourself is not fun! :smallfrown:

Vent if you need to. If you've already officially booted the player from your group, don't be afraid to call/chat her up and tell her what you've been going through lately, and invite her back. If you haven't "thrown the switch" yet, then no harm done.

Give yourself some time (if you can) to re-collect yourself. I'm sure I don't need to tell you how much better you feel when you feel like yourself.

Best wishes! (No, NOT the kind the DM will twist! :smallbiggrin:)

Forrestfire
2013-10-10, 04:52 PM
In any case, I wish you luck with whatever decision you make. Hopefully it all works out :smallsmile:

The Evil Moose
2013-10-10, 04:54 PM
Thank you so much for the support, I don't have many people in real life I can talk to about these sort of issues and it means a lot to me to read that :smallsmile:

Mr Beer
2013-10-10, 05:00 PM
What happened is that I forgot to take my antidepressants yesterday so I'm all over the place and suicidal and self destructive today and in no state to make decisions that make any sort of sense. Is it okay if I vent without being judged or given advice? I feel so weird these past two days, normally I wouldn't have even noticed something as small as a player not having a mic because it doesnt matter.

I'm going to suggest you don't kick the player until you feel emotionally stable. You might decide that it's not that big a deal to you after all but it will be too late then to change your mind. You've obviously been dealing with this annoyance for a while now, a few days shouldn't make that much difference hopefully.

If you have to organise the group and this one person is slowing the process up, I can see how that is annoying, it would annoy me. On the other hand, they may have legitimate issues dealing with a mike and this game is their sole social outlet. I'm not saying who is right and wrong here, it's possible no-one is.

~Corvus~
2013-10-10, 05:01 PM
Don't worry about it too excessively.

Exactly. You came here looking for advice. People mess up, stuff happens. Don't get all up in your head about it.


To clear things up, I am not DMing, but I am more or less running the game if that makes any sense. The DM makes the campaign, I make sure the game goes smoothly, that is why I am stressing over this. I feel like I'm at the point where no matter what I say it will only make me look worse :smallmad: , kind of what I hate about internet forums and speaking to people in general, the words always come out wrong and say something that I don't mean :smallfurious:

Let's say I came to you with the same problem. What would be your advice to ME?


If you've already officially booted the player from your group, don't be afraid to call/chat her up and tell her what you've been going through lately, and invite her back.
Yes, this. Those conversations can be wonderfully cathartic. But if you do that, remember to take further steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Good luck

Felhammer
2013-10-10, 05:07 PM
Boot the player and next time you make a recruitment thread be sure to mention that mics are required. :smallsmile:

To be clear: I find being explicit from the get go as to what you want is always a better policy than assuming everyone knows what you want. If playing via text is slowing down the game - and that person refuses to switch to a mic - then boot that player. If that player can't use a mic (for what ever reason) then politely tell the player to either acquire one (if possible) or leave the campaign. Your time is just as precious as everyone elses', if you aren't having fun then you need to change things.

Fallbot
2013-10-10, 05:11 PM
I'm going to suggest you don't kick the player until you feel emotionally stable. You might decide that it's not that big a deal to you after all but it will be too late then to change your mind. You've obviously been dealing with this annoyance for a while now, a few days shouldn't make that much difference hopefully.

If you have to organise the group and this one person is slowing the process up, I can see how that is annoying, it would annoy me. On the other hand, they may have legitimate issues dealing with a mike and this game is their sole social outlet. I'm not saying who is right and wrong here, it's possible no-one is.

This guy knows what's up.

Don't don't let your health suffer because of elfgames. Take a step back until you're ready to deal with it.

tasw
2013-10-10, 09:07 PM
To clear things up, I am not DMing, but I am more or less running the game if that makes any sense. The DM makes the campaign, I make sure the game goes smoothly, that is why I am stressing over this. I feel like I'm at the point where no matter what I say it will only make me look worse :smallmad: , kind of what I hate about internet forums and speaking to people in general, the words always come out wrong and say something that I don't mean :smallfurious:

If your not the GM its absolutely not your call to make. If a player in one of my games went behind my back and dis-invited another player to our games he would find himself the next one cut and the first player would be right back with my profuse apologies.

Its not hard to find someone to schedule a game. Most players dont actually need to be told to show up each week after all, your hardly serving a vital function no one else could do.

Hiro Protagonest
2013-10-10, 09:15 PM
If your not the GM its absolutely not your call to make. If a player in one of my games went behind my back and dis-invited another player to our games he would find himself the next one cut and the first player would be right back with my profuse apologies.

Its not hard to find someone to schedule a game. Most players dont actually need to be told to show up each week after all, your hardly serving a vital function no one else could do.

...You're talking to a depressed person, and you decide to tell him that he's not worth anything in particular to the group he's playing with. Real tactful.

And did you miss the part where he said that he's the one who speaks up for this player because everyone else is ignoring her texts?

tasw
2013-10-10, 09:18 PM
...You're talking to a depressed person, and you decide to tell him that he's not worth anything in particular to the group he's playing with. Real tactful.

Being depressed is no excuse to act like a petty tyrant or a jerk. Enabling this sort of behavior is not what a depressed person (or any person with any problem) needs.


And did you miss the part where he said that he's the one who speaks up for this player because everyone else is ignoring her texts?

Which is his opinion. he doesnt know that everyone is ignoring her. we talk over each other all the time in game. Doesnt mean we arent paying attention.

Kyberwulf
2013-10-10, 09:41 PM
My advice would be to try to find some time to talk to her out of the game. Try to get her over her shyness. If you can, just take a 5-10 minutes in the beginning to try just start a conversation. Get her used to using the mic and used to talking to strangers.

GrayGriffin
2013-10-10, 10:42 PM
I have mild anxiety over using webcams/mics to speak to people. I can record sound and put it up just fine, as well as speak just fine in face-to-face chat, but for some reason web chat tends to make me seize up. And if I knew that I was apparently "ruining everything" for my fellow players in this way, I would probably get even more anxiety over that, but it would not help me be more comfortable with a mic. I am also wondering why you didn't establish that you needed a mic before setting up the game.

TuggyNE
2013-10-10, 11:38 PM
I have a friend who dislikes using mics in games (usually FPS or MMO, not RPG as such, but the same principle applies) because her voice sounds very masculine, which makes people assume she's yet another guy playing a female character. So I can definitely see that there's a lot of possible perfectly legitimate reasons for someone to not want to use a mic.


Being depressed is no excuse to act like a petty tyrant or a jerk. Enabling this sort of behavior is not what a depressed person (or any person with any problem) needs.

Um, as someone who's suffered depression myself, I would kindly suggest that, in the absence of specific gentle helpfulness, the best course is to keep one's mouth firmly shut. Harsh admonishment is not particularly useful; it breeds resentment and self-doubt, and offers no particular motivational force, which is quite often the real cause for various problems.

tasw
2013-10-11, 12:16 AM
]Um, as someone who's suffered depression myself, I would kindly suggest that, in the absence of specific gentle helpfulness, the best course is to keep one's mouth firmly shut. Harsh admonishment is not particularly useful; it breeds resentment and self-doubt, and offers no particular motivational force, which is quite often the real cause for various problems.

You would be wrong.

And you would also be better served to have the same level of compassion for the player who was abused in this instance by someone with no right at all to do so, for something that didnt seem to bother anyone else as for the aggressor who abused her. Or even better, to save that compassion entirely for the actual wounded party.

Your compassion is misplaced. It belongs on the side of the player with the mic issue. Not the person wrongly forcing his idea of "fun" on her to the point of booting her from someone elses game without talking to anyone else about it due to his personal issues.

You can have personal problems, it happens, we all have something going on. But once you start inflicting those personal problems on other people you are WRONG.

TuggyNE
2013-10-11, 12:21 AM
And you would also be better served to have the same level of compassion for the player who was abused in this instance by someone with no right at all to do so, for something that didnt seem to bother anyone else as for the aggressor who abused her. Or even better, to save that compassion entirely for the actual wounded party.

Your compassion is misplaced. It belongs on the side of the player with the mic issue. Not the person wrongly forcing his idea of "fun" on her to the point of booting her from someone elses game without talking to anyone else about it due to his personal issues.

Did… did you miss the part of my post where I started by mentioning that I have a friend that seems very similar, and gave a sensible reason why they should not be dismissed out of hand?

I dunno, I thought it was pretty clear I sympathize with both principals here.

Edit: Edited earlier post to try to clarify intent.

tasw
2013-10-11, 12:25 AM
Did… did you miss the part of my post where I started by mentioning that I have a friend that seems very similar, and gave a sensible reason why they should not be dismissed out of hand?

I dunno, I thought it was pretty clear I sympathize with both principals here.

And thats wrong.

One is being victimized by an agressor with a personal problem unfairly and the other one is wrong.

They do not deserve equal sympathy.

This isnt any different from a player whose an alcoholic who shows up each week and gets too drunk to walk, disrupts game, ruins other peoples fun and is generally a pain in the butt.

Both have severe medical problems that they are inflicting on other players to the detriment of those players fun.

But actually the alcy didnt flat out kick anyone else from the game. They are just a pain in the butt.

So the OP is worse.

AuraTwilight
2013-10-11, 02:30 AM
Tasw, how about you just...like...back out of this thread? You're not helping and as a general rule if you have nothing nice to say the mouth should be zipped, suicidal/depressed person on the other end or not?

Black Jester
2013-10-11, 08:27 AM
You know what? Being patient and polite is probably the way to deal with this situation. When the problem is basically that the non-speaking fellow player is shy to speak with a bunch of strangers, I think the best you can do is not remain a stranger but be inviting, friendly and understanding. Eventually familiarity will set in, people will get more accustomed to each other, and if you are at least half way trying to be inclusive it will work out in its own time. RPGs are a playful and halfway safe environment anyway.
If you want to do something about it right now, send her a friendly mail, explaining your concerns without being demanding or condescending and tell her that while you hope that she will join the talking circle eventually she can do so when she choses. Offer a bit of friendly, yet not overwhelming pressure-free reassurance and support. It will not magically get better by tomorrow, but you can avoid the conflict and the confrontation and if you are actually having a depressive episode, a bit of altruism and avoiding unnecessary arguments will actually do you good.

tensai_oni
2013-10-11, 06:35 PM
Tasw, how about you just...like...back out of this thread? You're not helping and as a general rule if you have nothing nice to say the mouth should be zipped, suicidal/depressed person on the other end or not?

1. Don't tell other people to stop posting
2. "If you don't have anything nice to say, stay quiet" is a stance that doesn't allow any criticism, ever. Even when the criticized person needs it, because what they are doing is wrong. ESPECIALLY when what they are doing is wrong.

AuraTwilight
2013-10-11, 06:41 PM
2. "If you don't have anything nice to say, stay quiet" is a stance that doesn't allow any criticism, ever. Even when the criticized person needs it, because what they are doing is wrong. ESPECIALLY when what they are doing is wrong.

Criticism doesn't have to be 'not nice'. You can criticize people without telling them they're garbage human beings.

tensai_oni
2013-10-11, 09:13 PM
Criticism doesn't have to be 'not nice'. You can criticize people without telling them they're garbage human beings.

Okay, I can agree with that.

tasw
2013-10-11, 09:36 PM
Criticism doesn't have to be 'not nice'. You can criticize people without telling them they're garbage human beings.

LOL over empathize much?

"your not serving a vital function by being the guy who texts everyone else on game day to remind them" is NOT "your a garbage human".

The OP is performing a trivial task anyone in the group could do, which does not give him the right to abuse other members of the group or usurp the DM's authority. The OP was being a D***, plain and simple.

Pretending otherwise is not gonna fix his depression and saying he's being a **** is not gonna send him plunging off a rooftop.

It might, possibly, cause him to not use his problem as an excuse to abuse other people on a whim though. Probably not, but maybe. Coddling him surely will not do anything to prevent this behavior in the future. And it needs to be prevented.

TuggyNE
2013-10-11, 10:06 PM
"your not serving a vital function by being the guy who texts everyone else on game day to remind them" is NOT "your a garbage human".

No, it isn't.


The OP is performing a trivial task anyone in the group could do, which does not give him the right to abuse other members of the group or usurp the DM's authority. The OP was being a D***, plain and simple.

… but this basically is.

You have very neatly and efficiently demonstrated the difference between helpful correction and unhelpful roughness.

Beige Dragon
2013-10-11, 10:26 PM
If you are not the DM, it probably isn't your call to make. If you find that the DM isn't doing things more important than what you are doing, become a sub-dm or such. I personally, would not ever use a mic on d20. I don't know how old you or your players are, so I won't ask. But its possible that the person using text is young/presumes to be younger than you, and doesn't want to use a mic as its weird. For example, I have some friends over the internet that are older then me. I type to them, they type to me. I have been invited to voice chat with them, but I have not known them long enough to be comfortable with it. For older people, its just, "oh well, i'm a mature adult, it doesn't really matter to me". But for younger people, they think more along the lines of "This is creepy/I will be thought as less of, because I am much younger". Basically, what i'm saying is, younger people, not big fans of talking to older people they don't know across the internet with their own voices. If it becomes a large problem, and the players dislike it aswell as you, ask the DM for permission, and politely ask her to leave.

AuraTwilight
2013-10-12, 12:24 AM
The OP is performing a trivial task anyone in the group could do, which does not give him the right to abuse other members of the group or usurp the DM's authority. The OP was being a D***, plain and simple.

And you're being so much better right now. Does your behavior give me a right to verbally abuse you? If not, why do you think you can do the same to him? Even if you disagree with how the OP handles things doesn't give you the right to talk to him this way.


Pretending otherwise is not gonna fix his depression and saying he's being a **** is not gonna send him plunging off a rooftop.

As someone who is intimately involved with a professional psychologist, you've got this backwards. Empathy and compassion fix self-destructive behavior. Treating them like criminals and bad people doesn't, and only makes them double-down if anything.

Also, if the OP DID jump off a rooftop because of your speech, then what? Just saying.



It might, possibly, cause him to not use his problem as an excuse to abuse other people on a whim though. Probably not, but maybe. Coddling him surely will not do anything to prevent this behavior in the future. And it needs to be prevented.

Actually, the OP used his problem to explain his vent-thread, not specifically his behavior with this other person. Their depressive attitude is actually what they're attributing their feelings of guilt and desire for recompense with this person to.

You are not doing anything to prevent suffering. You are causing suffering. If you really wish to help this person, you need to not be contributing to their feelings of self-loathing and self-depreciation, and encourage them to reconcile with the persons they've wronged instead of making them focus on their screw-ups.

Jormengand
2013-10-12, 01:22 PM
Whoever the blame lies with, I for one don't actually care, nor see why anyone else does. There's time enough to moralise about the situation later; for now the wisest course of action is to accept the player back into the game and apologise.

Given that typing is probably not appreciably slowing down the game, (I'm taking about twice-three times as long to type this as I would to say it, but by the time we'd got past all the "What did you say?" and so forth, as well as the fact that the player can prepare what they need to type and hit enter at the right time,) there's no major reason why the player shouldn't be allowed to play.

That said, the OP mentioned that the player was "Playing poorly." Whatever that means, it could be grounds for at least making sure the player changed something about their character or play style, but kicking them out?

Remember also that kicking a player out may be saving you a bit of bother, but if they've spent an hour, two hours, even three or four hours, making a character who is never going to see play then you've just wasted a few hours of their life, too.

Depression may be a reason for kicking someone out of your game in the causal sense, but it's not a justification. If, like me, you have depressive tendencies then it's a good idea not to make big decisions while you're feeling down - and kicking a player out of a game is a big decision. Make sure you explain in simple - but not patronising or condescending - terms what the issue is and why you feel that it's a good idea that they should do X,Y and Z - though it may be a bit late for that.

scurv
2013-10-13, 12:21 PM
She said it was because of shyness and preference of typing.


As this may or may not be the case in this situation, people who have disability tend to avoid making them public as much as possible. With almost 15 years dealing off and on in assisted living for a relative and all the joys of assisting with rehabilitation that goes with it. I have found that very often people who can mask an issue...will.

<Edit>
Op, I will say this bluntly. from your own admission you might have a basis for empathy/understanding in this situation. Shy can very often be a euphemism for a social anxiety disorder. Or it could be horrible speech issues or wrong chromosome, Or living with people who think DND is socially unacceptable. Who knows...and more importantly who cares.

<edit edit> text does have the built in advantage of being able to reread it....

Jay R
2013-10-14, 11:19 AM
Is it okay if I vent without being judged or given advice?

Two answers, both offered in good faith:

A. No, you cannot start a thread asking "Should I just deal with it or kick her out?" without being given advice. You asked us for it.

B. Is it okay is she types without being judged or given advice? Your question receives the same answer this one does.

Lorsa
2013-10-14, 06:04 PM
She said it was because of shyness and preference of typing. This is really more of a problem of me getting upset easily rather than of her typing too slow. :smallfrown: A lot of why I don't like doing non solo games is that I feel very controlling at times and find dealing with other players very tiresome when our playstyles don't match very well. I suppose the biggest problem I have with her typing rather than speaking is that it means what she says gets overlooked very easily and I feel like I'm being rude when I end up sort of speaking for her in order to get the DM to notice. And another aspect is that I put a very large amount of energy into playing and trying to roleplay and think in a way that will give the DM and other players an enjoyable game I find it frustrating when someone else isn't willing to put the same amount of effort, this attitude I have is something that I really dislike about myself sometimes since it's in a way, a pretty self-centered way of thinking.
Ahhhh so much venting, sorry about this, I never speak to others about my personal problems so as soon as I start writing on an internet forum I end up pouring my heart out.

If you have a problem with your attitude why not change it? It's not like it's impossible to change or think differently.

An internet forum isn't a place to "vent" (unless the forum is called "the venting place" or somesuch). Venting is something you do with people that actually want to hear it. If you're posting about something on a forum, people WILL give their advice and opinions. If you don't want to hear them, don't post anything. If you simply want to vent in text format, write a diary. If you desperately need the illusion of people reading it, make a blog.

In short; this isn't a place for venting.

GrayGriffin
2013-10-14, 08:37 PM
Oh, and another thing. Why are you calling her "stubborn" in the title? It's pretty obvious that she's not being deliberately difficult. She just wants to play along with you guys in her own way. Despite your claims, it's obvious that you were biased against her from the beginning.

Melayl
2013-10-15, 12:44 PM
I'm going to suggest you don't kick the player until you feel emotionally stable. You might decide that it's not that big a deal to you after all but it will be too late then to change your mind. You've obviously been dealing with this annoyance for a while now, a few days shouldn't make that much difference hopefully.

If you have to organise the group and this one person is slowing the process up, I can see how that is annoying, it would annoy me. On the other hand, they may have legitimate issues dealing with a mike and this game is their sole social outlet. I'm not saying who is right and wrong here, it's possible no-one is.

I would second (third? fourth?) this statement. I would also ignore the statements of tasw until you feel emotionally stable, and then keep in mind that they are the opinion of one poster, and not reflective of the opinion of the rest of us. Or reflective of who you are. Everybody has bad days, everybody screws up. We're human. What you do about it afterwards is what matters.