Magical Training (the feat)

[Yogibear41]

If a character choose to cast spells as a wizard with the Magical Training feat, and gains his spellbook with 3 level 0 spells in it. Can he add additional spells to the book as a wizard would?

[prufock]

Technically, I don't think so. The rules say that "a wizard" can add spells to a spellbook in various ways, and as far as I know this in never contradicted by this feat or otherwise.

EDIT: I say "technically" because I think this is silly. You were able to scribe those three spells but no others? I should think you would be allowed to scribe them, though you would still only have access to cast three 0-level per day as per this feat.

[Yogibear41]

Thanks, I was of a similar mind set.

[GreenETC]

I believe they can, provided they can get someone who is a Wizard to scribe the spells in there for them. It's a normal spellbook in every way, and someone should be able to add to it, but the character still can't cast those spells unless he has slots. I believe this is the usual method of creating a Sword of the Arcane Order Paladin/Ranger, since they need a spellbook.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Yes, per Rules Compendium page 160:

ADDING SPELLS TO A SPELLBOOK
Spellcasters who use spellbooks can add new spells to their
spellbooks through several methods.
The method for adding new spells to a spellbook is not exclusive to Wizards. Any spellcaster who uses a spellbook can add more spells to it via the same methods that a Wizard does. Keep in mind that you can add any spell to your spellbook that you can make the Spellcraft check for, regardless of whether or not you can cast spells of that level. The only reason the PHB specifies that the section for adding new spells to a spellbook is for just Wizards is because being a Wizard was the only way to be able to use a spellbook at the time it was printed. Rules Compendium states no such limitation, as long as you use a spellbook you can add new spells to it regardless of class.

[Zanos]

Yes, per Rules Compendium page 160:

The method for adding new spells to a spellbook is not exclusive to Wizards. Any spellcaster who uses a spellbook can add more spells to it via the same methods that a Wizard does. Keep in mind that you can add any spell to your spellbook that you can make the Spellcraft check for, regardless of whether or not you can cast spells of that level. The only reason the PHB specifies that the section for adding new spells to a spellbook is for just Wizards is because being a Wizard was the only way to be able to use a spellbook at the time it was printed. Rules Compendium states no such limitation, as long as you use a spellbook you can add new spells to it regardless of class.
Doesn't that allow you to add a bunch of spells you can't cast yet to your spellbook before taking a PrC that bans another school of magic, such as Red Wizard of Incantatrix?

[Coidzor]

Doesn't that allow you to add a bunch of spells you can't cast yet to your spellbook before taking a PrC that bans another school of magic, such as Red Wizard of Incantatrix?

Yeah, but you still can't prepare or cast those spells if they're banned even if they're in your spellbook or a captured spellbook you've mastered. :smallconfused:

[prufock]

Yes, per Rules Compendium page 160
Nice find, Biff!

[JoshuaZ]

I say "technically" because I think this is silly. You were able to scribe those three spells but no others? I should think you would be allowed to scribe them, though you would still only have access to cast three 0-level per day as per this feat.

Not commenting either way on the RAW involved, but I don't think this is that silly. The idea of someone who has just enough magical training that they can handle a few very easy cantrips but not necessarily others seems reasonable. If one has a high magic setting one might even have this be a common situation.

[Zanos]

Yeah, but you still can't prepare or cast those spells if they're banned even if they're in your spellbook or a captured spellbook you've mastered. :smallconfused:

Enhanced Specialization: Upon becoming a Red Wizard, a character increases his devotion to his wizard school of specialization. In exchange for this, the Red Wizard must sacrifice study in one or more schools. The Red Wizard must choose an additional prohibited school or schools using the rules in the Player's Handbook. He can never again learn spells from those prohibited schools. He cannot choose the same prohibited schools he chose as a 1st-level wizard. He can still use the prohibited spells he knew prior to becoming a Red Wizard, including using items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger.


Red Wizard has text that allows you to continue to use spells you know before becoming a Red Wizard. I swore Incantatrix has similar text, but I guess I was wrong.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Doesn't that allow you to add a bunch of spells you can't cast yet to your spellbook before taking a PrC that bans another school of magic, such as Red Wizard of Incantatrix?

You could with the 3.0 versions of those classes, but the 3.5 versions now specify that you can no longer prepare spells of your new prohibited school even if you already knew them ahead of time.

[Zanos]

You could with the 3.0 versions of those classes, but the 3.5 versions now specify that you can no longer prepare spells of your new prohibited school even if you already knew them ahead of time.
Is Red Wizard reprinted somewhere or errata'd somewhere? I'm looking at my 3.5 DMG and it contains the text I quote'd in my previous post.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Is Red Wizard reprinted somewhere or errata'd somewhere? I'm looking at my 3.5 DMG and it contains the text I quote'd in my previous post.

My mistake, the 3.0 Incantatrix had that same wording but that's no longer possible with the 3.5 version, but they didn't bother changing Red Wizard in the same way. You can still do this trick with Red Wizard, but not Incantatrix.

[Agincourt]

You could with the 3.0 versions of those classes, but the 3.5 versions now specify that you can no longer prepare spells of your new prohibited school even if you already knew them ahead of time.

I wish it were that clear, but the 3.5 Incantatrix is unfortunately vague. It says the incantatrix "gives up a school of magic" and must choose "a school of magic other than abjuration or divination as a prohibited school." It doesn't say what happens to the spells the character already knows how to cast.

The 3.0 Incantatrix (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010803) was explicit about what happens. "She can still use the prohibited spells she knew prior to becoming an incantatrix, including using items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger." One could argue that the deletion of this text shows the RAI, but it's not true that RAW, 3.5 specifies what happens to spells in the prohibited school.

[Yogibear41]

Someone should go quote that rule to the people saying that Sword of the arcane order rangers/paladins need to take a level of wizard, also thanks :smallsmile:

[prufock]

Not commenting either way on the RAW involved, but I don't think this is that silly. The idea of someone who has just enough magical training that they can handle a few very easy cantrips but not necessarily others seems reasonable. If one has a high magic setting one might even have this be a common situation.

It can't be a matter of difficulty, since all cantrips have the same difficulty. The only limiting factors should be time, money, and the ability to make a spellcraft check. I could see a character that just "got lucky" on a few spells despite having half a rank in spellcraft and an int of 10. I don't see why characters in general would be limited this way, though.