Pathfinder Divine Spellcaster-- Newb needs help [Archive]

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Captain Morgan

2013-10-10, 09:48 PM

Hi all,

I recently picked up Pathfinder for the first time, and am making making a level 1 divine spellcaster. I was sort of inspired by the awesome antics of Malack and Red Cloak. Red Cloak's combination of summons, blasting, and overall utility in particular was appealing, more so than the more sword and board style of Durkon.

The other thing that went into my class selection was a neat origin story: I wanted a cleric that didn't actually like the god he worshipped, but needed the power from. Then I thought I could take it a step further by non-evil character the chosen champion of an evil diety. The Dark God would allow my character autonomy for now, so my cleric would try and use his dark powers for good, but in the back of his mind the cleric is aware he will one day be an instrument of Armageddon.

It seemed fun, but I wasn't sure if the rules would allow for a good character to channel the dark gods that way. I then discovered the Oracle class, which does not require actual worship of the god(s) in question, and seemed to fit my characters back story better. Great! I should be set now. I will use an Oracle who blasts people with lasers and summons beasties to the front lines for him.

I quickly realized that the mechanics of the game were not necessarily on my side here. First off, blasting seems to be a worse strategy in general from what I gather, despite seeming incredibly fun. Secondly, it seems that wizards are just overall better at spellcasting than Clerics, and better still at blasting. Third, it seems Oracles are further underpowered as compared to Clerics, due mostly to knowing less spells.

I am also not super familiar with how many spells you tend to need for a day, or per encounter, or what have you. And Clerics have less spell slots than Oracles. But at low levels, Clerics seem to functionally have more spells to sling-- between the domain standard action, and channeling negative energy, a level 1 cleric can have 8+ extra blasts over a Cleric depending on ability modifiers. Considering I was not looking to build a melee character, being able to stay at range and blast guys for longer is really appealing.

So you see, I have some pretty big conflicts between playing what seems to be "effective," the role-playing I would like to do, and the manner of combat I was hoping to have. I know a lot of this comes down to a values question on my part, but its haaaaaaard. It seems like I could make a Flame Mystery Oracle and get a pretty OK blaster eventually. I could do a Fire Domain Theologian Cleric and he would get a bunch of extra "bullets" to use. Or I could say screw it and just build a wizard. I am not super crazy about just buffing and then wading into melee for my first character.

What would you all advise for me?

navar100

2013-10-10, 10:54 PM

You don't have to be "better" than a wizard. What matters is what you can do, not what another character can do. It sounds like you want to focus on spellcasting, so pick a Mystery that has Revelations that facilitate the concept.

Flames is a good one. It has lots of blasting Revelations plus a few other types. Some creatures will have fire resistance so you can't always Revelation blast. That's when you focus more on spells. Heavens is another good Mystery to focus on spellcasting. It's not blasty but gives you Color Spray, Hypnotic Pattern, and Rainbow Pattern. A Revelation lowers the effective HD of opponents for purposes of determining how they are affected by those spells, allowing you to use them more longer and more efficiently as the levels progress. Lore is a popular one just for the Revelation that lets you dump Dexterity. You get to use your Charisma modifier for AC and Reflex save. Your spells are your magic power while you get to be a scholar.

(Un)Inspired

2013-10-10, 11:10 PM

It might be a little different than your initial concept but a pathfinder domain druid might be exactly what your looking for.

Alinement wise, Druid only need to remain neutral in some regard so you could have a character that fluctuates between good and evil over the course of the campaign as he tries to wrestle with these monumental powers nature has granted him

The fire domain has plenty of blasting spells but if that turns out to be ineffective you could fall back on any one of a Druids plethora of different spell layouts.

You could even ask you dm if you can use some 3.5 Druid spells which are my favorite blasting spells that exist. Bombardment and call avalanche make spells like fireball and cone of cold look like sad jokes and compare the 8th level druid spell frostfell to the 9th level wizard spell meteor swarm.

That Druid is going to outblast a wizard everyday of the week.

If you really want to be a divine power caster and have the wizards blasting spell list and be able to cast spontaneously (good for blasting) check out the empyreal sorcerer. It's basically a sorcerer that casts using wisdom instead of charisma because it's power comes grime the gods... Sort of

Captain Morgan

2013-10-11, 02:46 PM

You don't have to be "better" than a wizard. What matters is what you can do, not what another character can do. It sounds like you want to focus on spellcasting, so pick a Mystery that has Revelations that facilitate the concept.

I get that, but I want to play to a style that the class does not necessarily cater to. I realize there is more to the game than just optimization, but it still feels weird sometimes. Especially when the Oracle is missing so much for versatility and stuff.

Flames is a good one. It has lots of blasting Revelations plus a few other types. Some creatures will have fire resistance so you can't always Revelation blast. That's when you focus more on spells.

Yeah, flames seem to be pretty sweet. The big problem I see with this over the Cleric's fire domain is that I don't get the 6 fire bolts per day. And at early levels that seems relevant to the layman.

Heavens is another good Mystery to focus on spellcasting. It's not blasty but gives you Color Spray, Hypnotic Pattern, and Rainbow Pattern.

Heavens seems excellent, although it wouldn't fit as well if I had an evil diety powering me.

A Revelation lowers the effective HD of opponents for purposes of determining how they are affected by those spells, allowing you to use them more longer and more efficiently as the levels progress.

I don't actually understand this yet. I am really just starting out.

Lore is a popular one just for the Revelation that lets you dump Dexterity. You get to use your Charisma modifier for AC and Reflex save. Your spells are your magic power while you get to be a scholar.

Sounds pretty functional, but not very blasty.

It might be a little different than your initial concept but a pathfinder domain druid might be exactly what your looking for.

Alinement wise, Druid only need to remain neutral in some regard so you could have a character that fluctuates between good and evil over the course of the campaign as he tries to wrestle with these monumental powers nature has granted him

The fire domain has plenty of blasting spells but if that turns out to be ineffective you could fall back on any one of a Druids plethora of different spell layouts.

You could even ask you dm if you can use some 3.5 Druid spells which are my favorite blasting spells that exist. Bombardment and call avalanche make spells like fireball and cone of cold look like sad jokes and compare the 8th level druid spell frostfell to the 9th level wizard spell meteor swarm.

That Druid is going to outblast a wizard everyday of the week.

If you really want to be a divine power caster and have the wizards blasting spell list and be able to cast spontaneously (good for blasting) check out the empyreal sorcerer. It's basically a sorcerer that casts using wisdom instead of charisma because it's power comes grime the gods... Sort of

Druids certainly sound like they could fill the powers I am looking for, but don't they have to devoutly worship nature and mean it? And nature's neutrality seems like it would not quite work that way.

On the other hand, the first session we played, I had my character be way goofier than I originally envisioned, and we already have a bear (technically just a druid who got stuck in shape change and does not have natural casting, but functionally a grizzly bear) so having someone nature based might fit that. Perhaps I should try going Blasty Druid on Lugash the drunken Russian and save the tortured tool of fate Oracle for a different campaign?

Oh, and thank you both for your input. Really appreciate it.

Corlindale

2013-10-11, 02:59 PM

Oracle can certainly work as a caster. You will probably find that their spell list is a little lackluster at early levels, but later on they start to catch up. And as you already know mystery choice is very important.

If you want to get a bit of the goodness from the wizard spell list, you could try out the Ancient Lorekeeper archetype. You give up your normal bonus spells but instead get to pick some from the wizard list.

Craft (Cheese)

2013-10-11, 06:18 PM

First of all, don't be afraid to refluff. Your concept could mechanically just as easily work as a Primal (Fire) Sorcerer, and just say you get your bloodline from some evil fire god. Same fluff, much less of a hassle in terms of crunch.

Heavens seems excellent, although it wouldn't fit as well if I had an evil diety powering me.

Depends on the deity, really. It'd work almost perfectly if you got your power from, say, Cthulhu. (Almost, because there's the Dark Tapestry mystery that's an even better fit for that.)

I don't actually understand this yet. I am really just starting out.

You see the sucky part about spells like Color Spray is that their effects are dependent upon how many Hit Dice the target has: Hit Dice is basically equivalent to class level for humans, elves, and other non-monsters (for monsters the difference is a bit more complex since you add in Racial Hit Dice to the total in addition to their class level). A Color Spray used against a 2nd-level enemy will basically win you the fight: The same spell used against a 6th-level enemy is much less impressive. However, the Awesome Display revelation means these spells have improved effects against higher-level enemies. For example, if you have 18 CHA and you cast Color Spray on a 6th-level enemy, it'll affect that enemy as if they were 2nd-level instead, knocking them unconscious if they fail their save.

Druids certainly sound like they could fill the powers I am looking for, but don't they have to devoutly worship nature and mean it? And nature's neutrality seems like it would not quite work that way.

Like I said, don't be afraid to refluff. Your druid isn't a tree-hugging nature-lover: They were thrown into a volcano as a sacrifice by a cult that worships the evil spirit that lives inside of it. Instead of burning you alive, however, the spirit spat you back out and made you its chosen servant and sent you to spread destruction and ruin throughout the land. You said "Screw that!" and instead used your powers over earth, magma, and ash clouds to pursue and destroy the cult that attempted to murder you.

Captain Morgan

2013-10-11, 08:04 PM

grarrrg

2013-10-11, 08:40 PM

Throwing this out there:
A dip in Sorcerer may be useful.
Go with the Elemental Bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/elemental-bloodline), the Arcana lets you change the Energy type of Energy spells you cast. It DOES work on ANY/ALL spells you cast from all classes (there's a FAQ, don't worry). BUT you can only change them into one chosen type of Energy.
Acid is probably your best bet, followed by Electricity. I'd skip Fire for 2 reasons, first, it's the most commonly resisted, second, your blasty spells are liable to be Fire based more often than not.

Gives you a good bit of added versatility.

Secondary recommendation: go with Crossblooded Sorc and throw Draconic on there too. Now all your [chosen energy] spells do +1 damage per die.

Craft (Cheese)

2013-10-12, 05:13 AM

Interesting, interesting. You guys have certainly given me some stuff to think about. Is there a specific deity available to Druids that would be suitable to my purposes? I really like the idea of a good character who is directly powered by a evil deity. Sorcerer feels too much like cheating on that front, and I would like to stay divine for powers I think.

Depends on the setting. If it's a homebrew world, you'll have to ask your DM about what deities are around, and what the restrictions are on a druid gaining power from them.

In the Pathfinder Chronicles setting, each druid must have a patron deity*, but they can have any deity so long as they're within one step of the deity's alignment. However, it's possible for a divine spellcaster to be of an incompatible alignment in extraordinary circumstances; I'd say the concept you've proposed is sufficient to count as such a circumstance. Make sure you go over this with your DM, and see how they feel about deities and alignment restrictions.

*Druids can also worship a philosophy called the Green Faith, which is the pretty bog-standard stereotypical tree-hugging druidic religion. RP-wise I don't think the green faith is very interesting.

Keep note, however, that for druids however the deity doesn't matter much mechanically. Unlike clerics, druids aren't restricted to their deity's list of domains, they can pick any domain available to druids.

As for specific deities, might I recommend you take a look at:

Ymeri (http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Ymeri), Queen of the Plane of Fire
Moloch (http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Moloch), Archdevil ruler of Malbolge
Flauros (http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Flauros), Demon Lord of Volcanoes
Szuriel (http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Szuriel), the Horseman of War
Zelishkar (http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Zelishkar), a Daemonic Harbinger of Arson, trapped in an artifact called the Bound Bottle.

It seems to me that Druids can lose their druid abilities for failing to revere nature. And while I don't think my DM is the type to be a jerk about that, I am not sure I want to try and contradict the game's rules too much. Druids do seem to provide the provide an awesome set of powers, and they get more blasty than an Cleric does. Also plenty of summons, and some sweet transformation stuff. But I am still struggling to accept it conceptually a bit for some reason.

Like I said, don't be afraid to refluff. The beautiful thing about roleplaying games is that you can do whatever you like, so long as everyone's okay with it and on the same page. The only wrong way to play is to restrict yourself from playing what you want for literally no reason.

Also, we rolled our stats, and this what I have to work with pre-racial bonuses:

15, 14, 14, 11, 10, 10

Which I can distribute at will.

Ouch: Not a very good set of rolls, but salvageable. Put that 15 into WIS and those 14s into DEX and CON. You're a caster druid so you need those save DCs to be high: Make sure you choose a race that boosts WIS first, though one that boosts CON too would be nice. If you pick a race with a penalty then penalize either INT or CHA: Don't penalize WIS or any of your physical stats. Here's a list of races in PF with good adjustments for you:

Human (+2 WIS)
Half-Elf (+2 WIS)
Half-Orc (+2 WIS)
Dwarf (+2 CON, +2 WIS, -2 CHA)
Archon-Blooded Aasimar (+2 CON, +2 WIS)
Devil-Blooded Tiefling (+2 CON, +2 WIS, -2 CHA)
Duergar (+2 CON, +2 WIS, -4 CHA)

Souju

2013-10-12, 06:46 AM

Ah, too bad you decided to go with the druid instead of the oracle...I have GREAT fun with the oracle class :)
the Dark Tapestry mystery, if played correctly, can turn you into the party's MVP later on (black tentacles is GREAT for CC, and Gift of Madness can turn the tables on a very difficult fight very fast. You also get Tongues and Many Forms, making you a great spy.)
It's also got that "dark and gritty" feel without REQUIRING you to be evil. The only downside is that...yeah it completely lacks any blasting power.

For race for what you're going for, though...I'd recommend Demodand or Devil-spawn Tiefling. Demodand nukes your INT, but a druid doesn't NECESSARILY need INT, and you get the ability to cast Bear's Endurance as an SLA, basically freeing up a spell slot if you want some extra HP for yourself or your party.
Devil Spawn basically does the same but with a CHA nuked instead of INT, and a different SLA.
It's...kind of a brains or beauty situation here :P

Efstrofos

2013-10-12, 08:56 AM

Hi! Clerics can make great blasters if you use the Theologian archetyp (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/paizo---cleric-archetypes/theologian)e and worship a fire god. Here's a sample build below, but the basics are you get to treat domain spells as spells known. This means that you can prepare all the blasty spells given to you by the fire domain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/fire-domain) in your normal slots. Also, Theologian gives you the ability to sort of specialize in a spell, applying Intensified Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/intensified-spell-metamagic) for free! If you stack this with spell focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spell-focus---final), spell specialization (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spell-specialization), varisian tattoo (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/varisian-tattoo), magical lineage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-lineage), and empower spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/empower-spell-metamagic---final), you'll be throwing out 15d6 (avg. 52 damage on a failed save) fireballs at level 7. (though the spoilered build stops at level 6)

Doing this as a cleric is pretty fun. Depending on the route you take you can modify the build and use the Preferred Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/preferred-spell) feat to allow you to spontaneously cast Fireball early, or if you're willing to wait until level 9 you can keep the build below and take Greater Spell Specialization (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/greater-spell-specialization) and use that to spontaneously cast your fireballs. The beauty of this is you can still be Cleric and fill all your slots with useful divine spells, and the spontaneously convert them to Fireball as needed giving you extra versatility. I've added in Scribe Scroll (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/item-creation-feats/scribe-scroll-item-creation---final) so you can just make scrolls of all those useful cleric spells to insure maximum Fireball usage.

At higher levels you can do all sorts of fun things. When you inevitably turn against your god you can take a 1 level dip in Sorcerer, cross-blooded (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/crossblooded), and take something like Draconic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/draconic-bloodline) (silver) and Elemental (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/elemental-bloodline) (Water) and turn all your Fireballs into Iceballs (or any other element you prefer) that do an additional +1 per dice rolled. You can also grab Dazing Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/dazing-spell-metamagic), Quicken Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/quicken-spell-metamagic---final), and Spell Perfection (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spell-perfection)to shoot 2 Fireballs per turn and daze all the baddies for 3 rounds on a failed save (adding battlefield control to your blasts). Also, Fireball is only a lvl 3 spell, so have fun beefing it up with the super cheap Lesser Metamagic Rods (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rods/metamagic-rods).

The downsides are you only get 1 domain. However, it seems to fit the bill quite well for what you want to do. Enjoy!

Pyromaniac Cleric
Male Human Cleric (Theologian) 6
N Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +6
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 20, touch 11, flat-footed 19 (+7 armor, +2 shield, +1 Dex)
hp 51 (6d8+18)
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +11
Resist fire 10
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash -1 (1d4-1/x2)
Spell-Like Abilities
. . 3/day—dancing lights
Cleric (Theologian) Spells Prepared (CL 6):
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 8, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 22, Cha 12
Base Atk +4; CMB +3; CMD 14
Feats Empower Spell, Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (Evocation), Spell Specialization (Fireball), Varisian Tattoo (Evocation)
Traits Magical Lineage (Fireball)
Skills Acrobatics -4 (-8 jump), Climb -6, Diplomacy +10, Escape Artist -4, Fly -4, Knowledge (planes) +11, Knowledge (religion) +11, Ride -4, Sense Motive +15, Spellcraft +11, Stealth -4, Swim -6
Languages Common, Goblin, Orc
SQ aura, cleric channel positive energy 3d6 (4/day) (dc 14), domain secret (intensified spell, fireball), domains (fire), fire bolt (9/day), focused domain, spontaneous casting
Combat Gear Scroll of Restoration, Lesser, Restoration, Lesser; Other Gear +1 Breastplate, Heavy wooden shield, Headband of inspired wisdom +2, You have no money!
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aura (Ex) The Cleric has an aura corresponding to his deity's alignment.
Cleric (Theologian) Domain (Fire) Granted Powers: You can call forth fire, command creatures of the inferno, and your flesh does not burn.
Cleric Channel Positive Energy 3d6 (4/day) (DC 14) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Damage Resistance, Fire (10) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Fire attacks.
Domain Secret (Intensified Spell, Fireball) (Ex) Chosen domain spell permanently modified with metamagic.
Empower Spell Numeric effects of a spell are increased 50%. +2 Levels.
Fire Bolt (1d6+4) (9/day) (Sp) 30' Ranged touch attack deals 1d6+4 Fire damage.
Focused Domain +2 to cleric level for domain powers.
Magical Lineage (Fireball) A chosen spell counts as 1 level lower when metamagic feats are applied to it.
Scroll of Restoration, Lesser, Restoration, Lesser, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Disease, Remov Add this item to create a scroll with spells on it.
Spell Focus (Evocation) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Spell Specialization (Fireball) Pick one spell and cast it as if you were higher level
Spontaneous Casting The Cleric can convert stored spells into Cure or Inflict spells.
Varisian Tattoo (Evocation) Spells from chosen school gain +1 caster level.

edit: I'm sure I've made some mistakes here. Feel free to make any corrections if I've read anything wrong.

edit 2: Also I've realized that I didn't use your ability scores. Sorry. This is one that I had already saved in Hero Lab. The 2 most important things for this build is high Wisdom and minimum 13 in Intelligence to qualify for Spell Specialization.

Captain Morgan

2013-10-12, 10:09 AM

Wow guys, lots of helpful stuff, thanks! To clarify, I have not set my heart on any one class. It seems that for the play style I am interested in (blasting, summoning, and battlefield control), Druid, Cleric, and then Oracle are functionally the best in that order. But that order is reversed when viewed from a role-playing perspective, with Oracle being the best fit for me, followed by Cleric and then probably Druid.

I figured I would go human, because the extra feat seemed handy, especially for Oracle. (Hello Extra Revelation.)

If I go Cleric, I think my Channeling will be evil aligned, because it seems more thematically appropriate (and awesome) to have a negative energy nuke. If I go Oracle, I can't see myself bothering to waste spell slots on inflict wounds, so I might go with healing. Not really sure.

One other problem I have with Druids is that our party already has some. We have a permanently wild shaped Druid in the form of a bear, who I assume will pick up natural casting at level 4. And the DM introduced another Druid who is helping our party as an NPC, although that character seems a little insane and unpredictable. We also have rogue and some sort of fighter, and we may pick up a Sorcerer? So a lot of spellcasters eventually.

Captain Morgan

2013-10-16, 08:41 AM

Wound up going with the Theologian Cleric. Couple questions: do my domain spells get +2 Cleric level, or just my firebolt power? Also, what traits did the build above go with? My starting feats were spell focus and the varisian tattoo.

Thanks guys! I had a blast playing him last night.

Efstrofos

2013-10-16, 11:42 AM

I believe it's only domain powers that get the +2 levels. Not spells.

edit: For traits you want either Magical Lineage or Metamagic Master (also called Wayang Spell Hunter) and put them on Fireball. I'd check with your DM to see if they stack. If so, take both.

Captain Morgan

2013-11-08, 09:49 AM

Spore

2013-11-08, 10:07 AM

Consider having a look at the Abyssal and Infernal bloodlines of the Sorcerer. It's spontaneous casting, blasting and summoning and you can easily flavor in the worship of an Evil god. (this time more of an demonologist worship than anything divine really).

Captain Morgan

2013-11-08, 11:15 AM

Spore

2013-11-08, 11:19 AM

Rolled stats of 16,14, 13, 12,10, and 9 for my guy before racial bunuses. Leaning towards a controller type, maybe taking 1 level in Cleric to gain some domain powers and broader low level spell access. What do you think, guys?

Multiclassing hurts Controllers. A single dip in a full BAB class is viable for warriors, but controllers should try to stay in their class. The stats are good, take heavens with awesome display and have the most powerful color spray ever imagined.

Captain Morgan

2013-11-08, 12:13 PM

Multiclassing hurts Controllers. A single dip in a full BAB class is viable for warriors, but controllers should try to stay in their class. The stats are good, take heavens with awesome display and have the most powerful color spray ever imagined.
Thanks, that is very helpful. Torn though. Heavens sounds really useful but Dark Tapestry sounds so thematically appropriate. Though I am toying around with the idea that the home brew diety my guy gets his powers from isn't actually as evil as my guy thinks. He's more of a trickster type evidently.

Spore

2013-11-08, 12:14 PM

Look at alll the colors! *snatches the victim's money*

Captain Morgan

2013-11-08, 02:59 PM

Spore

2013-11-08, 03:01 PM

So I have seen Eldritch Heritage recommended with the Arcane bloodline for Oracles, but I don't quite understand how it works. Feats in general are confusing. I am not sure how many I should have by level 8. Can someone help explain please?

You first need a Skill Focus in a Knowledge and then you get the 1st level bloodline power of the Arcane Bloodline which copies Arcane Bond from the Wizard.

You use that to get a Familiar. (You can then get improved Familiar later to get a second minion to use wands on its turn aka a quickened spell for you, that costs 25 gp.)

Captain Morgan

2013-11-08, 03:06 PM

You first need a Skill Focus in a Knowledge and then you get the 1st level bloodline power of the Arcane Bloodline which copies Arcane Bond from the Wizard.

You use that to get a Familiar. (You can then get improved Familiar later to get a second minion to use wands on its turn aka a quickened spell for you, that costs 25 gp.)

So what about the rest of the feats in that chain? What does that wind up doing?

Spore

2013-11-08, 03:14 PM

After that you can get up to 3 potential Wizard spells with "New Arcana" so yeah, all feats are great in that chain. Greater Eldritch Heritage is only worth it when you really specialize in a school (like illusion spells with the Heavens oracle).

Captain Morgan

2013-11-16, 02:55 PM

So I made a Dual Cursed, Dark Tapestry Caster Oracle. The DM came up with a homebrew curse for me:

Curse of the Favored Victim Your body was a vessel for uncouth and rash magical experimentation by people who presented themselves to you as trusted. Now, mutilated, you walk the earth still feeling the physical blowback from what they did to you. One of your hands has been amputated, leaving you with a -4 penalty to climb and swim checks(You cannot do either of these if your main hand is carrying an item that doesn't aid in either of these checks. You must drop the item first.), a -4 penalty to disguise checks. The magical experimentation has left you with the following boons: Being especially sensitive to magic, you gain Detect Magic as a bonus spell, even if you do not meet the prerequisites and can use it to detect magic on a single target multiple times, up to the value of your charisma modifier. Your reliance on your main hand has made it stronger and more capable, and you gain a +1 to melee, and +1 misc. bonus to AC. You gain a +1 rage bonus against people of the Hafton origin. At 5th level: Spells you know with the somatic component gain the focus component instead and maybe focused through the symbol. Add +2 to the attack rolls and/or DC of these spells. Spells that require both a somatic and focus component still require your main hand to be free. Your rage bonus increases to +2. At 10th level: The magic in the holy symbol has bonded with you, and a ghost hand sustains itself. This hand acts as a normal hand would work, but is still not entirely solid. The physical penalties of swim, climb and disguise checks halve to -2. Your rage bonus increases to +5. At 15th level: The amputation is completely overcome by the magical force that you have gained a symbiotic relationship with. Your ghost hand gains the change form property and can shift into any item that can be held by a creature of medium size. When your hand is shifted, it cannot be used for any purpose other than the item's purpose. Shifting is considered a swift action for small items, noncomplex items, a move action for medium-sized basic items, or for complex small items, and a standard action for large basic items, or for complex medium-size items. Your rage bonus increases to +7.

Combined with Haunted as my secondary curse.

Guy is a human. I was all prepared to drop 3 feats into beefing up my summons... But the DM informed me that summons had to be nerfed for both story and mechanical reasons. Basically I can only summon "mundane" creatures. Bison and giant wasps and sharks are OK, but I can't bring out any demons or elementals or spell casting creatures.

I still think it is worth knowing and using Summon Monster 1, III, and IV because they have significant tactical usage even with those limitations, but I am not sure it is worth the heavy feat investment. Not really sure what other feats to use though. Was gonna go with the Improved Eldritch Heritage feat line to broaden my spell access, but I may save that for a Paragon Surge based Oracle.

What do you guys think? My party is caster heavy so meatshields are important, but is Spell Focus (Conjusration), Augment Summoning, and Superior Summoning worth it if I can't start dropping swarms of spell casters at higher levels?

(There is a chance some of these restrictions may get relaxed as the plot progresses, but I don't know that I want to gamble 3 feats on that chance.)

EDIT: Talked to my DM, and it sounds like Elementals would be fair game but no demons. Though she did allow hell hounds because as she said it was basically Growlithe and too cool not to use.