battle-field control wizard [3.5/3.0]

[Somensjev]

as many people have probably noticed, i've posted numerous threads in the past while
i'm now attempting to create a battlefield control wizard, i'm trying to find ways to make a wizard with almost no direct damage/save or die/etc spells, just battlefield controlling, and a few other things

the build will be level six (no ECL/RHD), unlimited flaws (can't take the same one twice), and pretty much every ruling is read in the best possible interpretation (please no arguments, but looks of disapproval ate allowed)

for once, i have no idea how to start this build, so suggestions will be very appreciated

thank you in advanced :smallbiggrin:
oh, and polytheism is allowed, as long as the deities dont despise each other

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There are some great flaws here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30), you could easily put all of those except the first two and Bestial Instinct in a Wizard with little to no drawback. Use Skulker to get Blooded from PGtF and there's no drawback at all.

This guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394) should have quite a bit of information for you. It even has an example Focused Conjurer build with example spells prepared and items for 5th, 10th, and 15th level, which should suit your desires nicely.

[Somensjev]

There are some great flaws here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30), you could easily put all of those except the first two and Bestial Instinct in a Wizard with little to no drawback. Use Skulker to get Blooded from PGtF and there's no drawback at all.

This guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394) should have quite a bit of information for you. It even has an example Focused Conjurer build with example spells prepared and items for 5th, 10th, and 15th level, which should suit your desires nicely.

both of those are great reads, and i have quite a bit more of my build in my mind, but i'm still not certain what to do/use

[Somensjev]

which of the following would people suggest the most for a BattleField Control Wizard;
strongheart halfling
whisper gnome
human
illumian
grey/fire/sun elf
thanks for any responses

[Ortesk]

What alignment do you want? A dragonborn Lesser tiefling (-2 cha, +2 con, +2 int) is nice. Also Pick up fairie fire init (int not con for HP), Insightful reflexes (int on reflex), and go ape crazy on prereq feats for incantrix/IotSFV. As ryu showed me, a wizard only fears a wizard. those classes make you hard to kill. remember, you die and group lost there god

[Somensjev]

What alignment do you want? A dragonborn Lesser tiefling (-2 cha, +2 con, +2 int) is nice. Also Pick up fairie fire init (int not con for HP), Insightful reflexes (int on reflex), and go ape crazy on prereq feats for incantrix/IotSFV. As ryu showed me, a wizard only fears a wizard. those classes make you hard to kill. remember, you die and group lost there god

IotSFV?
and dragonborn lesser tiefling seems much more fun than my other options :smallamused:
i dont mind what alignment i am, but it's best to stray from evil, i have a smite happy paladin in the party

[Ortesk]

IotSFV?
and dragonborn lesser tiefling seems much more fun than my other options :smallamused:
i dont mind what alignment i am, but it's best to stray from evil, i have a smite happy paladin in the party

initiate of sevenfold veil, very pure defense class, full caster, 7 levels long, amazing class. and Dragonborn makes you LG, your a chosen child of Bahumat. your paladin should buy you a beer for being his brother in......good i guess? Also gain flying, All LA +0

[Somensjev]

initiate of sevenfold veil, very pure defense class, full caster, 7 levels long, amazing class. and Dragonborn makes you LG, your a chosen child of Bahumat. your paladin should buy you a beer for being his brother in......good i guess? Also gain flying, All LA +0

that's just too good
and now i'll have to look at IotSFV's

[Ortesk]

that's just too good
and now i'll have to look at IotSFV's

At higher levels, become immune to ranged attacks (I.E pesky orbs) and anyone who wants to hit you make save or go to a plane you choose. Such as sending them to dada so he can eat em. Also note, Wizard 3/Master Specialist 3/Incantrix 3/IotSV 7 is so utterly good. Drop Evocation, Necromancy, and personally i like giving up Illusion, be great in divination, transmutation, conjuration, and abjuration. Make sure you find the updated Incantrix, 3.0 is very.....subpar

[Somensjev]

At higher levels, become immune to ranged attacks (I.E pesky orbs) and anyone who wants to hit you make save or go to a plane you choose. Such as sending them to dada so he can eat em. Also note, Wizard 3/Master Specialist 3/Incantrix 3/IotSV 7 is so utterly good. Drop Evocation, Necromancy, and personally i like giving up Illusion, be great in divination, transmutation, conjuration, and abjuration. Make sure you find the updated Incantrix, 3.0 is very.....subpar

what feats would you suggest for the build?

[Ortesk]

that's just too good
and now i'll have to look at IotSFV's


what feats would you suggest for the build?

ACF: Martial Wizard (Imp init and dump silly scroll), Get you Alternate familiar: Hummingbird, four untyped boost on init. use nerve skitter. +13 bonus on init before we even account dex

Feats: Spell Focus: Abjuration, Spell Focus:Conjuration, Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration (you want saves now) Extend Spell (Must have) Iron Will (Need for incantrix), Faerie Fire Init (Int to HP), All MM feats you think you may want later Level 3: Item Familiar (Max out spell craft)

Free feats: level 1 master specialist, Skill focus: Spellcraft (Need for IotSV), Level 3 (Greater spell focus: Abjuration) you need for Iotsv, Incantrix 1: Bonus MM feat: Persist spell. do it and dont look back

Points of interest: At level 3 incantrix, you can now do 3+int mod/day use spell craft DC:18+(3x modified spell level), using same level slot in place. see persist spell? See all the buffs you love so much and hate spending 10 rounds casting each fight? With item Familiar maxed, synergy, skill focus, and say a 22 int, you have +thirty five, you can persist any spell you can cast 9/day by taking 10, use on buffs. And IotsV is Prismatic, Prismatic blocks AMF. And in a few levels can do it in reaction to anothers action. So no fear of AMF, No fear of not being buffed, No fear of most things

[Somensjev]

would i have to go Wizard 3/Master Specialist 3/Incantrix 3/IotSV 7
or could i go wizard 3/ master specialist 2/incantrix3/master specialist3/IotSV 7?
would it really make a difference? i'd be starting at level 6 (might try and ask if i can start at 7 like everyone else, but not sure yet)

[Ortesk]

would i have to go Wizard 3/Master Specialist 3/Incantrix 3/IotSV 7
or could i go wizard 3/ master specialist 2/incantrix3/master specialist3/IotSV 7?
would it really make a difference? i'd be starting at level 6 (might try and ask if i can start at 7 like everyone else, but not sure yet)

Lesser tiefling has 0 LA, LA is bad for you. And you want IotSV ASAP. its considered one of the best in game. finish more MS after you do IotSV. For pointers, you become immune more or less to melee, with persisted buffs and a second warding your immune to ranged magic, enemies lack LoS of you, you have full concealment, and add class level as a boost on your dc to dispel (IE your wards) IMO its the best you can do without breaking game totally. also look at level 7 initiate and what you can do, Kaliedoscopic Doom. Enemy Wizard? NUKE HIS ASS!!!!!!!!! Its mordekains dysjunction on roids, for each debuff you activate a ward. first 3 wards Meh, last four=goodness, and with no buffs hes in for the beating of his life

[Somensjev]

Lesser tiefling has 0 LA, LA is bad for you. And you want IotSV ASAP. its considered one of the best in game. finish more MS after you do IotSV. For pointers, you become immune more or less to melee, with persisted buffs and a second warding your immune to ranged magic, enemies lack LoS of you, you have full concealment, and add class level as a boost on your dc to dispel (IE your wards) IMO its the best you can do without breaking game totally. also look at level 7 initiate and what you can do, Kaliedoscopic Doom. Enemy Wizard? NUKE HIS ASS!!!!!!!!! Its mordekains dysjunction on roids, for each debuff you activate a ward. first 3 wards Meh, last four=goodness, and with no buffs hes in for the beating of his life

would it be worth it to put my three incantrix levels between my 2nd and 3rd level of MS? or is it better to do all three levels, then start on incantrix?

[Ortesk]

would it be worth it to put my three incantrix levels between my 2nd and 3rd level of MS? or is it better to do all three levels, then start on incantrix?

You can do either or, honestly more power sooner doing incantrix your way, i said 3 in MS for GSF. Question: Whats your stats/party setup currently? right now im showing you a very solid mid tier 2, if you have a weak party all you really need more is some good buffs and thats it. if you have a high op party, i can share my small knowledge lol (I began same thread as you 2 days ago on same subject, i learned fast due to solid advice which blew my mind)

[Somensjev]

You can do either or, honestly more power sooner doing incantrix your way, i said 3 in MS for GSF. Question: Whats your stats/party setup currently? right now im showing you a very solid mid tier 2, if you have a weak party all you really need more is some good buffs and thats it. if you have a high op party, i can share my small knowledge lol (I began same thread as you 2 days ago on same subject, i learned fast due to solid advice which blew my mind)

since we roll for stats, i got four 18's, a 17, and a 12, which are the stats i've used for the past thread i started too, and the other players are rather low-op, but my DM is DMing for the first time, and would like me to be able to save everyone if she screws up somewhere, so i need to be more powerful than them/better at using my powers, but i won't need to be completely uberpowered

edit: and my DM is now starting me at level 7, like everyone else

[Ortesk]

since we roll for stats, i got four 18's, a 17, and a 12, which are the stats i've used for the past thread i started too, and the other players are rather low-op, but my DM is DMing for the first time, and would like me to be able to save everyone if she screws up somewhere, so i need to be more powerful than them/better at using my powers, but i won't need to be completely uberpowered

edit: and my DM is now starting me at level 7, like everyone else

Lets see, 21 int/20 con/18 dex/18 wisdom/17 str/10 charisma will be very good for you. buy a +2 int item if you have average WBL, for a 23 int. so you have, in one level a +7 int which means 10 persists a day garunteed if you followed my suggestions. go with: Shield (+four AC, Level 1) Cats Grace (2 init, ac, reflex, Level 2) Protection from Evil (+2 ac, Supressed Mind control), Haste on party (more speed, extra actions, 1 AC) Friendly Fire (Now rays bounce off you and onto there allis), Greater Luminous Armor (+8 AC, -four any melee try hitting you, Level four) Scintilatting Scales (Deflection=con mod) so you net a bonus of +22 to an ac which should be 36 as a wizard after, and immune now to alot of stuff. you want fun times wait a level

[Somensjev]

Lets see, 21 int/20 con/18 dex/18 wisdom/17 str/10 charisma will be very good for you. buy a +2 int item if you have average WBL, for a 23 int. so you have, in one level a +7 int which means 10 persists a day garunteed if you followed my suggestions. go with: Shield (+four AC, Level 1) Cats Grace (2 init, ac, reflex, Level 2) Protection from Evil (+2 ac, Supressed Mind control), Haste on party (more speed, extra actions, 1 AC) Friendly Fire (Now rays bounce off you and onto there allis), Greater Luminous Armor (+8 AC, -four any melee try hitting you, Level four) Scintilatting Scales (Deflection=con mod) so you net a bonus of +22 to an ac which should be 36 as a wizard after, and immune now to alot of stuff. you want fun times wait a level

what'll happen in a level?

[Ortesk]

what'll happen in a level?

Persist wraith strike (All attacks touch all day) Draconic Polymorph into a Cave troll, Bite of Wereboar


Str: fourty one, dex 17, con thirty five, 13 NA, giving you an ac of fifty six, and you hit harder than any fighter will, all at touch attack. And im low op bud

[Ortesk]

Somehow get UMD up, slap on righteous Might, make you huge add on 8 str, four con, four more NA (so we have 6 more ac) tack on divine power for 6 str and bab as a fighter


Add: in troll form you gain: Improved grab, Pounce, rake, rend and dazing blows. with haste you have four attacks +30 touch attacks, dealing i believe damage is 1d8+22 (3 claws) a bite of 2d6+11, a rake of 1d8+36, and rend as 1d8+36. for average damage of=177 damage a round average, and your ac is about 60, and you can do it all day. if fighters need help, go in and kick ass. if you wanna own field, do it. if you wanna piss on your dm's big bad enemy, go ahead.

[Somensjev]

Somehow get UMD up, slap on righteous Might, make you huge add on 8 str, four con, four more NA (so we have 6 more ac) tack on divine power for 6 str and bab as a fighter


Add: in troll form you gain: Improved grab, Pounce, rake, rend and dazing blows. with haste you have four attacks +30 touch attacks, dealing i believe damage is 1d8+22 (3 claws) a bite of 2d6+11, a rake of 1d8+36, and rend as 1d8+36. for average damage of=177 damage a round average, and your ac is about 60, and you can do it all day. if fighters need help, go in and kick ass. if you wanna own field, do it. if you wanna piss on your dm's big bad enemy, go ahead.

i think, for now at least, i'll avoid becoming a cave troll, however, having it as a back-up plan at higher levels would be good

any other interesting back up plans i could have?

also, what flaws/feats would be the best?
after what you've already said (probably not an extensive list of what you recommended, and definitely not written the same way

Imp init, Alternate familiar: Hummingbird, never skitter, Spell Focus: Abjuration, Spell Focus:Conjuration, Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration, Extend Spell, Iron Will, Faerie Fire Init, Item Familiar, Skill focus: Spellcraft, Greater spell focus: Abjuration, Persist spell

[Somensjev]

Somehow get UMD up, slap on righteous Might, make you huge add on 8 str, four con, four more NA (so we have 6 more ac) tack on divine power for 6 str and bab as a fighter


Add: in troll form you gain: Improved grab, Pounce, rake, rend and dazing blows. with haste you have four attacks +30 touch attacks, dealing i believe damage is 1d8+22 (3 claws) a bite of 2d6+11, a rake of 1d8+36, and rend as 1d8+36. for average damage of=177 damage a round average, and your ac is about 60, and you can do it all day. if fighters need help, go in and kick ass. if you wanna own field, do it. if you wanna piss on your dm's big bad enemy, go ahead.

i think, for now at least, i'll avoid becoming a cave troll, however, having it as a back-up plan at higher levels would be good

any other interesting back up plans i could have?

also, what flaws/feats would be the best?
after what you've already said, of course (probably not an extensive list of what you recommended, and definitely not written the same way)

Imp init, Alternate familiar: Hummingbird, never skitter, Spell Focus: Abjuration, Spell Focus:Conjuration, Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration, Extend Spell, Iron Will, Faerie Fire Init, Item Familiar, Skill focus: Spellcraft, Greater spell focus: Abjuration, Persist spell

how do i even manage that? :smallconfused:

[Ortesk]

i think, for now at least, i'll avoid becoming a cave troll, however, having it as a back-up plan at higher levels would be good

any other interesting back up plans i could have?

also, what flaws/feats would be the best?
after what you've already said, of course (probably not an extensive list of what you recommended, and definitely not written the same way)

Imp init, Alternate familiar: Hummingbird, never skitter, Spell Focus: Abjuration, Spell Focus:Conjuration, Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration, Extend Spell, Iron Will, Faerie Fire Init, Item Familiar, Skill focus: Spellcraft, Greater spell focus: Abjuration, Persist spell

how do i even manage that? :smallconfused:

Improved init is an ACF. you give up scribe scroll for it Hummingbird is a familiar, no feat needed. you also wrote 3 free feats your be getting. and never skitter is level 1 spell. you actually buy 6 feats level 1, item familiar at level 3, and take a mm feat level 6. so you need five flaws actually bro, you get several feats as class freebies. i said pick up more flaws as a wizard because you need more MM, its your choice. but 9/10 flaws wont phase your job

[Somensjev]

Improved init is an ACF. you give up scribe scroll for it Hummingbird is a familiar, no feat needed. you also wrote 3 free feats your be getting. and never skitter is level 1 spell. you actually buy 6 feats level 1, item familiar at level 3, and take a mm feat level 6. so you need five flaws actually bro, you get several feats as class freebies. i said pick up more flaws as a wizard because you need more MM, its your choice. but 9/10 flaws wont phase your job

well.. ignore the ACF and the free feats

are there any very fun MM's i could take?

[Somensjev]

also, what are the best/most fun battlefield control spells?
and some fun wizard tricks using different spells

[Ortesk]

also, what are the best/most fun battlefield control spells?
and some fun wizard tricks using different spells

focus on save or suck, and target weak saves. if hes big, will. small, fort. slow, ref

[ericgrau]

Here are some of my favorites level 1-3: feather fall, web, invisibility, empowered ray of enfeeblement, haste, sleet storm, mass snake's swiftness. Daze is pretty sucky but it's a better last resort than a crossbow. Prepare 2-3 if you have room.

Scroll or wand as secondary options: benign transposition (especially with a familiar) and summon swarm using a 2 round duration rather than wasting time concentrating unless you're out of spells.

Most of the main list spells also fit on scrolls/wands, since you can't prepare them all and saves make little or no difference on all of them. A wand of invisibility is especially nice on a wizard for encounter bypassing whole party spammability. While still leaving you with 2nd level spells.

Grease and glitterdust intentionally omitted. Their areas are too small, save negates, and they're only true disables when the DM doesn't know the rules very well. Otherwise they're partial debuffs. They're nice if you have a party rogue though since they serve as sneak attack triggers.

For race whisper gnome is nice for +2 to hit with rays, and nice stats in general. It's a little OP for LA 0 compared to everything else.


focus on save or suck, and target weak saves. if hes big, will. small, fort. slow, ref
A common theory based more on perception than anything. But even with an int 20 wizard targetting will on a fire giant, for example, he has almost a 50:50 shot of passing his save. Maybe with all those feats you'll optimize DCs more, but your DM will likewise beef up monsters. Focus more on mass-save-or-X or no-save-just-X, more than deciding what type of save it is. Or if you want to pick a save then pick reflex, it's lower on average. That same fire giant has a 40 foot base land speed but he has a 75% chance or maybe higher of failing his reflex save. Resilient sphere is really nice because it targets reflex. And unlike almost all other spells that target, few foes are resistant to it. Reflex gets hate probably because it's associated with damage, but web and resilient sphere are awesome-sauce.

It is tempting to ban evocation on a no damage build, and it can work well even while missing the super amazing resilient sphere, wall of force and contingency. Heck at level 6 you can't even use those yet. But first ask yourself if you have a party cleric. Ok, abjuration is ditch-able. Can another party member provide haste and polymorph, or are you otherwise not getting them? Transmutation is ditch-able. Got a party bard with the invisibilities? Illusion is not as essential. And I take 24 hour false life rather than wasting a round on mirror image any day, btw. And poor enchantment is always ditch-able. Worst case if you can't lose any two of those you can still lose necromancy over evocation.

[Ortesk]

A common theory based more on perception than anything. But even with an int 20 wizard targetting will on a fire giant, for example, he has almost a 50:50 shot of passing his save. Maybe with all those feats you'll optimize DCs more, but your DM will likewise beef up monsters. Focus more on mass-save-or-X or no-save-just-X, more than deciding what type of save it is. Or if you want to pick a save then pick reflex, it's lower on average. That same fire giant has a 40 foot base land speed but he has a 75% chance or maybe higher of failing his reflex save. Resilient sphere is really nice because it targets reflex. And unlike almost all other spells that target, few foes are resistant to it. Reflex gets hate probably because it's associated with damage, but web and resilient sphere are awesome-sauce.


Why'll i agree on the rest, lets break this down.Lets assume a standard fire giant. A wizard, level 10 (Cr 10 giant) begins with a 20 int, 2 points by leveling, a spell raising intelligence, Spell focus/GSF raising by 2, has a dc of 20+SL, so a level 1 grease has a DC:21, fire giant roll 17 or fall on your ass for 10 rounds. Why'll party turns him into a pincussion. With a rogue getting SA and a fighter using basic composite bow, giant who is flat footed is going down.You target weak spots

[ericgrau]

Right from the start it's a stretch to even assume you'll have GSF in schools that cover all 3 saves. Buffing your int with a spell is a waste of a round. And a high starting int is pushing it too as it's rare to roll and has drawbacks except in a very high point buy. No, I was assuming 20 int total. Optimizing is a good idea, but if you want to optimize then focus on one type, probably a school that has reflex, go for something reasonably high without killing your other stats like 16 base int, and if you have a special race like grey elf then assume the DM is going to send crazy monsters too so it cancels out. For buffs go for passive and 24 hour things without busting your budget like a +2 int magic item. Or for high optimization you find ways to persist, contingency/celerity and quicken effects.

If you grease the fire giant he only has a -4 to hit. If you move away he can crawl out of it and has no penalty. So you blew two rounds buffing and casting to usually but not always cost him 1 round. Or 0 rounds for your 2 and a little debuff but he can still hit pretty hard.

What you do instead is pick up GSF in evocation and resilient sphere him. You can still be a conjurer and cast a lot of no save conjurations, or get GSF conjuration too since the OP has so many flaws. Or you can quickened ray of enfeeblement + web (w/ GSF conjuration). Web is reflex but strong fire giants easily walk out. Weakened ones OTOH not so much. And then precise shot is handy for that and rays in general, since the OP gets so many feats. The combo is good in general because web is reflex and is good even on a passed save. The enfeeblement overcomes its weakness to strength. And RoE is also great all by itself. So instead of comboing you can only enfeeble strong foes and only web other foes. Especially before you get quicken.

[Ortesk]

Right from the start it's a stretch to even assume you'll have GSF in schools that cover all 3 saves. Buffing your int with a spell is a waste of a round. And a high starting int is pushing it too as it's rare to roll and has drawbacks except in a very high point buy. No, I was assuming 20 int total. Optimizing is a good idea, but if you want to optimize then focus on one type, probably a school that has reflex, go for something reasonably high without killing your other stats like 16 base int, and if you have a special race like grey elf then assume the DM is going to send crazy monsters too so it cancels out. For buffs go for passive and 24 hour things without busting your budget like a +2 int magic item. Or for high optimization you find ways to persist, contingency/celerity and quicken effects.

If you grease the fire giant he only has a -4 to hit. If you move away he can crawl out of it and has no penalty. So you blew two rounds buffing and casting to usually but not always cost him 1 round. Or 0 rounds for your 2 and a little debuff but he can still hit pretty hard.

What you do instead is pick up GSF in evocation and resilient sphere him. You can still be a conjurer and cast a lot of no save conjurations, or get GSF conjuration too since the OP has so many flaws. Or you can quickened ray of enfeeblement + web (w/ GSF conjuration). Web is reflex but strong fire giants easily walk out. Weakened ones OTOH not so much. And then precise shot is handy for that and rays in general, since the OP gets so many feats. The combo is good in general because web is reflex and is good even on a passed save. The enfeeblement overcomes its weakness to strength. And RoE is also great all by itself. So instead of comboing you can only enfeeble strong foes and only web other foes. Especially before you get quicken.

at level 10 im an incantrix so all my buffs are persistant, and i showed grease to show how bad i could tear a giant up with a level 1 spell. now imagine some higher level spells. And say he loses 2 rounds, in 2 rounds your team dropped him half way and gave rest of party buff time. Now he stands up and you grease him again. a cr of 10 was demolished with no issue. grats. If you have a swarm of fire giants, use higher level spells which make them nothing and dm crys

[ryu]

at level 10 im an incantrix so all my buffs are persistant, and i showed grease to show how bad i could tear a giant up with a level 1 spell. now imagine some higher level spells. And say he loses 2 rounds, in 2 rounds your team dropped him half way and gave rest of party buff time. Now he stands up and you grease him again. a cr of 10 was demolished with no issue. grats. If you have a swarm of fire giants, use higher level spells which make them nothing and dm crys

They grow up so fast...:smallamused:

[Ortesk]

They grow up so fast...:smallamused:

I was wondering when youd show up bro :smallsmile: and i had a good teacher, what can i say

[Radar]

With unlimited flaws you can go crazy with feats and there are a lot of good ones to take. Most metamagic feats can be taken as soon as possible, so you can grab Sculpt Spell (really good for BC; gets immensly useful with Incantatrix ability to apply metamagic to spells already cast - even those cast by enemies), Selective Spell, Invisible Spell (unless it's too headache inducing) and a handful of other +0 metamagic, Extend Spell, Peristent Spell (only if you'll go with Incantatrix), Chain Spell (to expand those single target debuffs on all badies around), Silent Spell, Still Spell, Transdimensional Spell (situational, but might come in handy and you probably have a ton of free feats anyway). Then there is no reason not to take Easy Metamagic for those, you will use the most. You can also take Spell Penetration line of feats, which might come in handy.

That's of the top of my head.

[Somensjev]

improved initiative (free)
spell focus: conjuration (lvl1)
spell focus: abjuration (frail)
greater spell focus: conjuration (vulnerable)
skill focus: spellcraft (master spec.)
greater spell focus (abjuration) (master specialist)
item familiar (lvl3)
extend spell (bravado)
iron will (love of nature)
sanctum spell (insomniac)
sculpt spell (skulker)
twinned (incantrix)
repeat spell (lvl6)
heighten spell (aligned devotion)
quicken spell (hot blooded)
easy meta magic (quicken) (cold blooded)
easy metamagic (repeat) (murky-eyed)
easy metamagic (twinned) (feeble)
arcane thesis (meager fortitude)

that's a list of my current feats (and flaws)
anymore that people would suggest?
or any that people would suggest i remove?

[ryu]

improved initiative (free)
spell focus: conjuration (lvl1)
spell focus: abjuration (frail)
greater spell focus: conjuration (vulnerable)
skill focus: spellcraft (master spec.)
greater spell focus (abjuration) (master specialist)
item familiar (lvl3)
extend spell (bravado)
iron will (love of nature)
sanctum spell (insomniac)
sculpt spell (skulker)
twinned (incantrix)
repeat spell (lvl6)
heighten spell (aligned devotion)
quicken spell (hot blooded)
easy meta magic (quicken) (cold blooded)
easy metamagic (repeat) (murky-eyed)
easy metamagic (twinned) (feeble)
arcane thesis (meager fortitude)

that's a list of my current feats (and flaws)
anymore that people would suggest?
or any that people would suggest i remove?

I'd grip up metamagic for persist and selective if you haven't already. I would also grip up crafting of contingent spells because that feat is just generally awesome. Ask good ol' Ort if want an explanation of EXACTLY what that feat is capable from a third party if you're willing to be a silly person at high level.

[Somensjev]

I'd grip up metamagic for persist and selective if you haven't already. I would also grip up crafting of contingent spells because that feat is just generally awesome. Ask good ol' Ort if want an explanation of EXACTLY what that feat is capable from a third party if you're willing to be a silly person at high level.

strange, i thought i already had persist :smallsigh:
and craft contingency sounds fun whenever someone mentions it, but where could i find it?
and i think it's time to find more flaws

[ryu]

Complete arcana and apparently also unapproachable east. If you have either do it. It is a silly ability that just keeps getting sillier the more you put into it. How silly can it get? Lets just say it's usually one of the major cruxes of power on my wizards at high level. If you know how ridiculous wizard is at high level and also know that I deliberately despise the idea of holding any effort back? Yeah that feat is just sublime.

[Ortesk]

I'd grip up metamagic for persist and selective if you haven't already. I would also grip up crafting of contingent spells because that feat is just generally awesome. Ask good ol' Ort if want an explanation of EXACTLY what that feat is capable from a third party if you're willing to be a silly person at high level.

This man=win, if you wanna learn how to own the game listen to him. if he is willing to share what he knows, a wise man makes a back up copy

[ryu]

This man=win, if you wanna learn how to own the game listen to him. if he is willing to share what he knows, a wise man makes a back up copy

The best part? I learned most of my shenanigans through Cave Johnson style experimentation with brief bits of inspiration taken from the forums in recent years. DnD 3.5 isn't about WHY! It's about why NOT! Just go marry safe DnD if you love it so much...

[Ortesk]

The best part? I learned most of my shenanigans through Cave Johnson style experimentation with brief bits of inspiration taken from the forums in recent years. DnD 3.5 isn't about WHY! It's about why NOT! Just go marry safe DnD if you love it so much...

And my group calls BS on dragonfire adepts having tiamet breath, wait for what you have shown me to sink in on the poor souls

[ryu]

And my group calls BS on dragonfire adepts having tiamet breath, wait for what you have shown me to sink in on the poor souls

Incidentally if you can either record the results, transcribe the results into a campaign journal, or best-of-all get any of them to register here if they haven't to talk about it I would be grateful for the amusement. I mean it's just so rare to see gold like this occur in person, or even as a direct result of ones actions to educate the world.

[Ortesk]

Incidentally if you can either record the results, transcribe the results into a campaign journal, or best-of-all get any of them to register here if they haven't to talk about it I would be grateful for the amusement. I mean it's just so rare to see gold like this occur in person, or even as a direct result of ones actions to educate the world.

I'll send you a rundown of what happens, so far dm has kind of bragged how he is wanting to show group real fear of death, IE hes putting level 1 group against an ogre barbarian and says he who runs fastest wins. I silently smile as i have now by template stacking like a fool gained an even higher intelligence and thus DC, i am close to a 70 save (i would say real number but you would go giggity) Looking at the MM and seeing the ogre barbarian, Welp he can have good luck with beating me

[ryu]

I'll send you a rundown of what happens, so far dm has kind of bragged how he is wanting to show group real fear of death, IE hes putting level 1 group against an ogre barbarian and says he who runs fastest wins. I silently smile as i have now by template stacking like a fool gained an even higher intelligence and thus DC, i am close to a 70 save (i would say real number but you would go giggity) Looking at the MM and seeing the ogre barbarian, Welp he can have good luck with beating me

Oh this is too amazing... Be sure to get group reactions to the things that happen. Those are gonna be the best part. Also dude they let you stack templates? That isn't even close to resembling the ''fair'' spirit. Did they at least allow similar templating for the other characters?

[ericgrau]

at level 10 im an incantrix so all my buffs are persistant, and i showed grease to show how bad i could tear a giant up with a level 1 spell. now imagine some higher level spells. And say he loses 2 rounds, in 2 rounds your team dropped him half way and gave rest of party buff time. Now he stands up and you grease him again. a cr of 10 was demolished with no issue. grats. If you have a swarm of fire giants, use higher level spells which make them nothing and dm crys
A level 10 unoptimized party is supposed to have an easy time with a CR 10 foe. With optimization it's a bit sad for a single PC to need any help. The nice feats and nice class are nice though, I was only commenting on spell selection.

I still think the first half of post 27 are the good ones. Grease and glitterdust are ok, but those ones are better. Splatbooks may have more. I know the player's handbook better than I know the other books even though I mentioned a couple from spell compendium.

[Radar]

improved initiative (free)
spell focus: conjuration (lvl1)
spell focus: abjuration (frail)
greater spell focus: conjuration (vulnerable)
skill focus: spellcraft (master spec.)
greater spell focus (abjuration) (master specialist)
item familiar (lvl3)
extend spell (bravado)
iron will (love of nature)
sanctum spell (insomniac)
sculpt spell (skulker)
twinned (incantrix)
repeat spell (lvl6)
heighten spell (aligned devotion)
quicken spell (hot blooded)
easy meta magic (quicken) (cold blooded)
easy metamagic (repeat) (murky-eyed)
easy metamagic (twinned) (feeble)
arcane thesis (meager fortitude)

that's a list of my current feats (and flaws)
anymore that people would suggest?
or any that people would suggest i remove?
I'll second Craft Contingent Spell - this feat is amazing. I also forgot to mention one of the silliest wizard feats around: Uncanny Forethought. It basicaly allows you to cast any spell from your spellbook spontaneously a few times a day. To get that feat, you would have to take Spell Mastery, which isn't that great, but Uncanny Forethought is really worth two feats. It allows you to always have the perfect albino shark repellant at hand.

Question: what spell did you choose for the Arcane Thesis?

[Somensjev]

I'll second Craft Contingent Spell - this feat is amazing. I also forgot to mention one of the silliest wizard feats around: Uncanny Forethought. It basicaly allows you to cast any spell from your spellbook spontaneously a few times a day. To get that feat, you would have to take Spell Mastery, which isn't that great, but Uncanny Forethought is really worth two feats. It allows you to always have the perfect albino shark repellant at hand.

Question: what spell did you choose for the Arcane Thesis?

i actually havent decided yet, i'll post up the spells i know and maybe see what people suggest?

[Somensjev]

ok, my spellbook contains (so far)

4th level: evard's black tentacles, dispelling screen, polymorph
3rd level: anticipate teleport, sleet storm, dimension step, haste
2nd level: web, glitterdust, rope trick, fog cloud
1st level: protection from chaos, protection from evil, grease, benign transposition, wall of smoke, resinous tar, mount, neverskitter, enlarge person, blockade

i wasnt sure what to put arcane thesis on, so i thought i'd decide later
any suggestions?

also, for contingent spells i need a caster level of eleven, mine's only seven. how could i raise it to qualify?

[Radar]

i wasnt sure what to put arcane thesis on, so i thought i'd decide later
any suggestions?

also, for contingent spells i need a caster level of eleven, mine's only seven. how could i raise it to qualify?
I have a hard time choosing a spell for Arcane Thesis, since most BC spells don't need that much metamagic stacking except for an occasional Sculpt. I would probably wait with the arcane thesis for Solid Fog or it's upgraded version Freezing Fog - those are one of the most commonly useful no-save-just-suck spells. Aside from that, you probably won't get as much mileage from Arcane Thesis as any damage-focused build would.

As for the Craft Contingent Spell, items won't help you, and feats will never increase your CL above your HD. Yet, there are bloodlines, which are broken exactly because they increase CL, all per-level abilities (including casting) and skill point limit without increasing your character level. It still won't be enough to go from 7 to 11, but will get you much closer and make you a more powerful caster, then you should be at level 7.

Keep in mind: bloodlines are cheesy; like really, really cheesy; like, it would drown your character in fondue, which is in fact a Half-Cheese-Golem Half-Troll Dusk Giant, which will proceede to swallow the whole campaign.

[Somensjev]

I have a hard time choosing a spell for Arcane Thesis, since most BC spells don't need that much metamagic stacking except for an occasional Sculpt. I would probably wait with the arcane thesis for Solid Fog or it's upgraded version Freezing Fog - those are one of the most commonly useful no-save-just-suck spells. Aside from that, you probably won't get as much mileage from Arcane Thesis as any damage-focused build would.

As for the Craft Contingent Spell, items won't help you, and feats will never increase your CL above your HD. Yet, there are bloodlines, which are broken exactly because they increase CL, all per-level abilities (including casting) and skill point limit without increasing your character level. It still won't be enough to go from 7 to 11, but will get you much closer and make you a more powerful caster, then you should be at level 7.

Keep in mind: bloodlines are cheesy; like really, really cheesy; like, it would drown your character in fondue, which is in fact a Half-Cheese-Golem Half-Troll Dusk Giant, which will proceede to swallow the whole campaign.

well, i can wait for craft contingency, and i'll just choose a random spell for arcane thesis, and then retrain or something later

[ericgrau]

Oh level 7? It's a good time to start loading up your level 1 and 2 spells with hour/level spells to burn the extra spell slots and keep them up 24 hours a day. I mean you usually can't cast all 18 spells in combat. A lesser rod of extend spell helps. Mage armor, unseen servant, false life, and ya rope trick. If you enter a lot of dungeons you can spam 10 min/level spells at the entrance too, like resist energy. Even if you do hit a long adventuring day and regret burning so many spells, you could fall back on a wand of web or summon swarm, or a scroll or two of summon swarm and keep it active with concentration. Because spell save DC and caster level aren't a big deal on those spells.

Spell level 4 is when battlefield control really starts to takes off. Besides black tentacles there's solid fog, resilient sphere, wall of ice and illusory wall. Plus you get gems like greater invisibility, dimension door, stoneskin and enervation. And I believe spell compendium has a lot of interesting walls at that level, plus the heart of X spells. Especially if you banned necromancy and can't get false life (or even if you didn't). It's really hard to make choices for level 4 spells, too many good ones.

[Ortesk]

Oh this is too amazing... Be sure to get group reactions to the things that happen. Those are gonna be the best part. Also dude they let you stack templates? That isn't even close to resembling the ''fair'' spirit. Did they at least allow similar templating for the other characters?

Yah everyone has the same deal as me, but im only one o use it. I keep telling melee guys to stack templates on templates and have 50 strength, but something about fluff and story line and they just have to have the guy there way. Bleh i digress, my group has super broken rules, and only i use them

[ryu]

Yah everyone has the same deal as me, but im only one o use it. I keep telling melee guys to stack templates on templates and have 50 strength, but something about fluff and story line and they just have to have the guy there way. Bleh i digress, my group has super broken rules, and only i use them

Well this is gonna be a bloodbath. An entertaining bloodbath though.