Werewolf PC

[Ortesk]

Since i got so much amazing help on my character, I've decided to turn to the play ground for helping an alli on being a werewolf in an upcoming campaign. Now i've explained to him how LA and savage species work together, and he's willing to level five levels to be a full blown werewolf.

My questions: What prestige works best with a lycan? Warshaper is out the door due to a previous Proto Half Minotaur Water Orc Werebear kind of using the class to become immune to most things. He's wanting to actually not rely alot on hybrid form, he's mainly doing it for fluff reasons. I've showed him shifter and feat line to do same thing, showed him a lupine also, but his hearts set on it and i promised him i would give him some solid ideas. Which are coming from you :smallsmile: thanks in advance!

[Muja]

I would suggest looking into homebrew monster classes first and foremost, since savage species classes are unbalanced in many ways. Might I ask what the optimization level the group is for this character that he is making?

[Ortesk]

I would suggest looking into homebrew monster classes first and foremost, since savage species classes are unbalanced in many ways. Might I ask what the optimization level the group is for this character that he is making?

right now im gonna be an optimized BFC wizard, so far rest of group is a dread necromancer working on debuffs, a tanking crusader, a gnome dragonfire adept, a utility sorceror, and rest undecided (3 will most likely be fighters of some line) its a decent sized group (9 in fact) but i'm only one who really optimizes, rest are mildly better than a wotc made npc...

[John Longarrow]

Mechanically, lycan's make poor casters because they are saddled with racial HD and a level adjustment. They can compensate as both skill monkeys and front line fighters though.

If your ally goes Barbarian or Ranger at 1st, both match well with some of the benefits that werewolf gives. The DR helps a lot in surviving, and the bonuses to stats in hybred form offset some of the penalties for being level adjusted and the poor racial HD.

[Deca4531]

is it a wolf he wants to be or a lycan, because there are better ways to do both honestly. when going lycan i like rat, dire bat or bear more than wolf.

[Ortesk]

after discussing with my dm, since a werewolf is nowhere close to a werebear, hes going to have him level 3 levels as a lycan, gaining animal HD, bab, skills ect along the way, delaying dr until level 3 (so he's not unkillable at level 1)

[Ortesk]

is it a wolf he wants to be or a lycan, because there are better ways to do both honestly. when going lycan i like rat, dire bat or bear more than wolf.

He's wanting to be a lycan, who tries being a good guy but cant control the animal within (i told him afflicted suits better but i digress) and i've explained a druid with acf can do it level 1 and on at will, basically like a lycan, but his hearts dead set

[Fax Celestis]

He still needs to choose a race to put lycanthropy on top of. I'd recommend something physical or that comes with its own benefits already. if you want my recommendation, I'd go with raptoran (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050106b&page=1) (scroll down), because a hawkman werewolf seems ridiculously awesome, and you get to keep your wings in hybrid form.

I'd echo the above, and possibly steer towards a Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) build, especially since the werewolf in hybrid form gains the trip-bite ability of the wolf.

Also, here's an official werewolf monster class. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a)

[Deca4531]

He's wanting to be a lycan, who tries being a good guy but cant control the animal within (i told him afflicted suits better but i digress) and i've explained a druid with acf can do it level 1 and on at will, basically like a lycan, but his hearts dead set

well were-rat is only 1HD and you get some good dex bonuses, plus you can turn into a rat and sneak around really easily. on top of that rats have an evil alignment which would match your friends fluff.

i would also ask your DM if he could use the Forgotten Realms variant for lycans, it have a slightly lower LA and some other benefits and what not.

[WhamBamSam]

Werewolf gets you Track and Iron Will as bonus feats and +2 to Wis, so I'd say go into Ardent 2/Slayer 10/Sanctified Mind 3. With the way Ardent manifesting progression works, that'll get 9th level powers with Practiced Manifester and 16 BAB, and he can use the Substitute Power ACF (found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a)) to effectively build his own Mantles with nice gish powers from the PsyWar list that don't rely on morphing out of the Werewolf form (like Expansion, Painful Strike, Catapsi, and Form of Doom). Fluff it as the Werewolf gradually learning to control himself through mental discipline.

EDIT: Just realized that doesn't have the BAB to qualify for Slayer. So Ardent 4/Slayer 10/Sanctified Mind 1, with another Ardent level for an extra mantle and/or more Sanctified Mind if LA buy off is allowed. Also Psionic Lion's Charge for pounce.

[Ortesk]

well were-rat is only 1HD and you get some good dex bonuses, plus you can turn into a rat and sneak around really easily. on top of that rats have an evil alignment which would match your friends fluff.

i would also ask your DM if he could use the Forgotten Realms variant for lycans, it have a slightly lower LA and some other benefits and what not.

do you have a link to fr variants? my dm allows all books and variants except the one that basically allows you 2 characters in one, also dragon mag is allowed if it helps

[Ortesk]

He still needs to choose a race to put lycanthropy on top of. I'd recommend something physical or that comes with its own benefits already. if you want my recommendation, I'd go with raptoran (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050106b&page=1) (scroll down), because a hawkman werewolf seems ridiculously awesome, and you get to keep your wings in hybrid form.

I'd echo the above, and possibly steer towards a Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) build, especially since the werewolf in hybrid form gains the trip-bite ability of the wolf.

Also, here's an official werewolf monster class. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a)

He likes human (which i can understand) but i'll show him raptoran, a flying wolf is just awesome, i cant lie

[Deca4531]

do you have a link to fr variants? my dm allows all books and variants except the one that basically allows you 2 characters in one, also dragon mag is allowed if it helps

Races of Fearun (http://www.feuros.com/D&D/Races%20of%20Faerun.pdf) p142-147

[Ortesk]

Races of Fearun (http://www.feuros.com/D&D/Races%20of%20Faerun.pdf) p142-147

thanks, after reading im just really thinking of rewriting the templates to dumb the LA down to 0 and 1, afflicted and natural respectively. I'm kind of the lycan fanboy of the group and dnd really doesnt want you being a lycan i think

[Deca4531]

thanks, after reading im just really thinking of rewriting the templates to dumb the LA down to 0 and 1, afflicted and natural respectively. I'm kind of the lycan fanboy of the group and dnd really doesnt want you being a lycan i think

As am i, most of the characters i run are a lycan so i was really psycked when i came across this entry. normaly i roll rogue so i tend to take were-rat for low lv games for were-dire bat for high lvs.

[Coidzor]

IIRC, other than warshaper there's two main PrCs for lycanthropes. One is Moon Guardian (CD Web Enhancement), which is a caster PrC as I recall.

The other is something like Black Blood Hunter (PGtF), where the main draws are a better hybrid form, ability to keep making use of items while in various forms, and free action form changes, IIRC.

[Fouredged Sword]

My favored werewolf build is

Druid (shapeshifter and spontanious restoration ACF) 8 / warshaper 5 / Warhulk 7

You are a stupidly strong large wolfman (+26 str after racial and base) who hits multiple squares each swing. You are tough to kill due to warshaper (immune to crits, fast healing, +4 con)

At low levels you are a melee striker who can burn spell slots to get fast healing. Great for tanking. At mid levels you become a battlefield controller with your large size and tripping. Equip your shifted form with it's own set of equipment.

At high levels you can wreck anything in your reach. You do enough damage with your attacks due to power attack and hitting multiple targets a swing that few things can stand up to you. Throw rocks at things too far away to hit and generally act like a siege weapon. Get skillful on an amulet of natural attacks to set your bab to 3/4ths your HD.

[Ortesk]

I just made it up in about 10 minutes, if people still reading feel free to offer me insight on balance issues the new template may have

reason why WotC failed in Lycans: You get Mild boosts for a steep fee, which just having class levels on a human can make you better lycan than the mythical beast itself. So without further ado, let me show my version of a lycan

Lycanthrope template

type: Same (Afflicted), gains Shapechanger subtype (Natural)

Speed: Same as Animal in Hybrid/Animal forms

AC: +2 NA bonus in all forms

Attacks: In hybrid form or animal form, gain all natural attacks of ancestor animal. A natural Lycan may use Special attacks of the base animal in those forms (Ex, Pounce for a Were Lion, Improved Grab for a Were Bear, Ect.)

Damage: Natural Attacks deal same damage size as animal listing shows

Alternate Form: Same as MM intro, as a change an Afflicted may only assume hybrid form unless under a full moon

Damage reduction: An afflicted gains Dr 1 per HD/Silver (Example, Level 12 has Dr 6/Silver) A Natural Instead gains regen at same rate

Abilities: +2 Str, +2 Con, - 2 Int, -2 Cha (Natural Lycans may get rid of Int or Charisma Offset) Unlike MM, when in hybrid/animal you do not gain bonus's to your physical scores, even if increased size

Feats: None (Afflicted), Iron Will (Natural)

Special Qualities and side notes: A natural Lycan gains scent in all forms. Also Lycans have a weakness to silver, besides it negating there powerful healing properties it also Deals damage and half to an afflicted, Double damage to a natural


LA: 0 (Afflicted), 1 Natural

[Coidzor]

right now im gonna be an optimized BFC wizard, so far rest of group is a dread necromancer working on debuffs, a tanking crusader, a gnome dragonfire adept, a utility sorceror, and rest undecided (3 will most likely be fighters of some line) its a decent sized group (9 in fact) but i'm only one who really optimizes, rest are mildly better than a wotc made npc...

Well it's hard to mess up a DFA or a crusader doing what it was designed to do. And it's not quite as hard to mess up a debuffing dread necromancer(though slightly easier than a minionmancing debuffing dread necromancer)... It still sounds like he's going to get overshadowed if he just plays a poorly built werewolf purely for the fluff of it when there's other ways he can apply crunch for that same fluff. Especially if there's going to be 3 other people focused on fighting in addition to the crusader and the werewolf character. Granted, I suppose that allows them all to pick a different melee trick to focus on.

[Ortesk]

Well it's hard to mess up a DFA or a crusader doing what it was designed to do. And it's not quite as hard to mess up a debuffing dread necromancer(though slightly easier than a minionmancing debuffing dread necromancer)... It still sounds like he's going to get overshadowed if he just plays a poorly built werewolf purely for the fluff of it when there's other ways he can apply crunch for that same fluff. Especially if there's going to be 3 other people focused on fighting in addition to the crusader and the werewolf character. Granted, I suppose that allows them all to pick a different melee trick to focus on.

I actually showed my dread necromancer pal how to stack feats and the creepy undead child to build around enervation, Until level 7 dread wont do well really since his feats will be all for one spell at higher level. the crusader will be really good, which is why if i can get my homemade lycan template okayed i can get him to maybe be a warblade, i know a non martial adept will be out paced by even a half built adept