How to Deal With A Low Strength Score

[Uby1234]

My character has Strength 6, so I had to consolidate my possessions to avoid encumbrance. I figured my findings could help people who have a low Strength score, or who simply want to carry less. (Yes, I know you could just get the wizard to cast bull's strength on you, but that's only temporary.)

#1: Armor
You should probably stick to shields and magical AC enhancements, like rings of protection. If you want armor, you should get leather, but replace it with mithral chainmail as soon as you can afford it. Why, you ask? Studded leather weighs 20 pounds.

#2: Weapons
This isn't a huge problem for weak characters, but if you have an insanely low Strength score, your options are limited to daggers, saps, and a smattering of other weak weapons.

#3: Miscellany
One of the things you could do is purchase a magnifying glass instead of a flint and steel or a boatload of tindertwigs. That gets you a +2 bonus on Appraise checks, as well as serving as a lighter. The only problem is that you can't light fires at night with a magnifying glass unless you have a spellcaster with daylight on hand. For class features, kits are infinitely useful, because they carry everything you need for a task, and weigh less than just buying all those items.

I will add to this thread when I have more time.

[eggynack]

You should probably just pick up some source of extra-dimensional or nondimensional space. Some classics are the bag of holding, handy haversack, and portable hole. Shax's indispensible haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8235865) is also a relevant resource if you're seeking out low weight equipment, because it's a guide that prioritizes weight in addition to the traditional cost considerations.

[Uby1234]

Yes, but those are expensive, and low-level characters can't afford them. I already knew that this thread would be useless to people with extradimensional spaces when I wrote it.

[mattie_p]

You should probably just pick up some source of extra-dimensional or nondimensional space. Some classics are the bag of holding, handy haversack, and portable hole. Shax's indispensible haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8235865) is also a relevant resource if you're seeking out low weight equipment, because it's a guide that prioritizes weight in addition to the traditional cost considerations.

A packmule is essentially extra-dimensional storage for 8 gp.

[MukkTB]

Its not actually. Lets assume we have an extra-dimensional space. We still need to use our limited carrying capacity to carry a number of things that logically wouldn't be in that extra-dimensional space:

#1 Armor

#2 Weapons, wands, staffs, rods and scrolls we want to use.

#3 Gewgaws like spell focus and spell component pouches that we don't want to spend a move action (Handy Haversack) to access.

#4 Our extra-dimensional item itself which weighs about 5 pounds and is probably a handy haversack. They don't carry as much as a bag of holding but they also don't weigh at least 15 Pounds.

In PF point buy we can dump Str down to 7 for a capacity of 23 pounds. In 3.5 8 is the minimum at 26 pounds. Lets assume that a light load is the only acceptable option. Going slow is a recipe for being run down and eaten or letting the bad guys get away. I'm also going to assume that we are playing a magic user of some sort because dropping strength into the negatives is not otherwise a winning strategy. (Dex based Swordsage can do it.)

So our list goes:
Handy Haversack - 5 Pounds
Immediately Accessible Magic Paraphernalia (carried around kneck, strung over shoulder, ect) - 3-5 Pounds
Room to pick up a small object without the DM getting pissed at us, or becoming encumbered - 5 Pounds.
Total - 13-15 Pounds

So we now have somewhere between 8 to 13 pounds of carrying capacity to devote to armor and weapons. This is getting pretty tight, even though all or noncombat stuff is sitting happily in a handy haversack. As a caster we don't *need* armor and we may be unable to use it but its nice if we can get it to go. One way of filling the remaining carrying capacity would be:
Darkleaf Leather Armor (Pathfinder) - 7 Pounds
A Staff - 4 Pounds
11 Pounds
This may eat into our picking things up to look at them and move them around budget.

Another Option would be:
Bracers of Armor - 1 Pound
Mithril Light Shield - 3 Pounds
Wand - 0 Pounds
4 Pounds
That gives some wiggle room.

I though about including a dagger build but I have this to say. What are you bothering to carry a dagger for? 1D4-2 damage with a to hit modifier isn't worth Jack. The reason the staff gets involved is because they can be helpful in making magic go. I'm totally unwilling to use on of my hands to carry around that uselessness. A Spiked Gauntlet weighs the same and doesn't use up the slot.

Spiked Guantlet - 1 Pound
Mithril Chain Shirt -12.5 Pounds
13.5 Pounds
This one is a bit high. A mithril chain shirt is still pretty heavy for a Wimpodite (http://comedycontinent.blogspot.com/2010/10/wimpodites.html).

[Carth]

A blind and deaf mule can serve as a pack animal that'd be very difficult to spook due to its conditions.

[Story]

What on earth are you doing with Bracers of Armor? It doesn't stack with Mage Armor and co. and AC is the least important defense on a mage anyway.

The only reason to pick up armor is if you want enchantments or (enchantments on your armor spikes) which isn't something you can afford until the mid-late levels anyway.

Also, staffs don't really do anything useful.

[Immabozo]

Low level options? I like the pack mule idea. Also, if you are a caster, abrupt jaunt is a pretty low weight high efficiency defense. Hell, dipping wizard for that ACF is a decent option for most!

Also, I think having the strong party member carry your junk it another low cost good option. "I'll buff you every combat if you carry my stuff" is a good bribe. Low cost, too.

Not that this is low cost and probably outside the budget for some time for lowbies, but an animated shield will not weigh anything and provide defense.

[MukkTB]

Well Bracers of Armor is dirt cheap from a weight standpoint and at least in Pathfinder you can stick whatever armor enchantments you want on it. Ignore if you play 3.5 unless you somehow managed to get one on the cheap and don't want to sell at 50% book value.

The staff could be a charged item or a rod. I put it there because the Wizard carrying a staff is a pretty iconic fantasy thing.

And for ****s and giggles another setup. This time we're going to wear some clothes instead of runnig around in our drawers.
Robe (Scholars Outfit) - 6 Pounds
Spiked Gauntlets - 1 Pound
Mithril Light Shield - 3 Pounds
10 Pounds

Anyway, my point is that even with an extra-dimensional space, carrying capacity can get pretty tight on a low strength character.

[Story]

6 lbs for a robe? What is it, lead lined? I guess it isn't really a surprise that WOTC has no clue what anything weighs, but if weight actually came up in game, I'm sure you'd have no problem getting it reduced via houserule.

Anyway, staffs are just a huge waste of money in 3.5, and there's no particular reason why you have to follow the stereotypical wizard look.

Edit: I just looked in the PHB and ordinary clothes don't count against carrying capacity anyway.

[Scumbaggery]

I support the pack mule idea, but bribing your Barbarian/Fighter/Meatwagon with buffs while he lugs all your stuff around is worth considering

[Gadora]

There's always the (horrible) option of actually carrying a medium load. :smalltongue:

Actually contributing something useful to the thread, there's an item that I assume is kind of obscure, from one of the free adventures that WotC published. The lifting belt from A Dark and Stormy Knight costs 500 and gives a +1 enhancement bonus to strength, but only for purposes of carrying capacity.

Also, I had one rogue who was a retired adventurer (we started at level 3, as I recall) who'd turned merchant and was getting sucked back in to the adventuring life, since someone had to help. He rode around in a cart.

[Sith_Happens]

There's always the (horrible) option of actually carrying a medium load. :smalltongue:

This becomes a much less horrible option once you have 1500 gp to blow on the Easy Travel armor property from MIC.

[Eldariel]

This becomes a much less horrible option once you have 1500 gp to blow on the Easy Travel armor property from MIC.

Then again, for 500gp more you can get a Handy Haversack which solves your carrying capacity problems permanently; all items available as move actions and weight nothing. Then you just keep your primary weapon, scrolls & flasks handy and you're good to go.

Note that the outfit you wear does not count against your carrying capacity (PHB p. 131); that might be important at times.

[Zanos]

Then again, for 500gp more you can get a Handy Haversack which solves your carrying capacity problems permanently; all items available as move actions and weight nothing. Then you just keep your primary weapon, scrolls & flasks handy and you're good to go.

Note that the outfit you wear does not count against your carrying capacity (PHB p. 131); that might be important at times.
Pretty important, considering it's 5-10 pounds of extra capacity. I always forget about that rule and am baffled that my wizards are carrying too much.

[Raven777]

Pretty important, considering it's 5-10 pounds of extra capacity. I always forget about that rule and am baffled that my wizards are carrying too much.

What if the "outfit" consists of actual magic items like a Mnemonic Vestment + a Tunic of Careful Casting + a Cloak of Resistance + Boots of Striding and Springing + a Glove of Storing + etc ?

[Uby1234]

A packmule is essentially extra-dimensional storage for 8 gp.

Mules can be exceedingly annoying with all those Handle Animal checks, and they can't go down 5-foot-wide corridors, which are common in a dungeon. :smallyuk:

[MukkTB]

What if the "outfit" consists of actual magic items like a Mnemonic Vestment + a Tunic of Careful Casting + a Cloak of Resistance + Boots of Striding and Springing + a Glove of Storing + etc ?

This is an important question.

[Urpriest]

Mules can be exceedingly annoying with all those Handle Animal checks, and they can't go down 5-foot-wide corridors, which are common in a dungeon. :smallyuk:

Yes they can. They aren't huge. They can't fight effectively in such a corridor, but they aren't fighting anyway.

[Story]

Actually contributing something useful to the thread, there's an item that I assume is kind of obscure, from one of the free adventures that WotC published. The lifting belt from A Dark and Stormy Knight costs 500 and gives a +1 enhancement bonus to strength, but only for purposes of carrying capacity.


Seems kind of a waste when you can buy a real, slotless +1 to strength for a little over 1k.

I think PF did it a lot better with the Muleback Cords.

[LordBlades]

If you're a caster with really low strength the only use you'd have for weapons is threatening squares most likely. As such, why not use one of the 1 lb. weapons?
My favorite is the Spiked Gauntlet (1 lb., doesn't occupy a hand and you threaten squares regardless of proficiency).

[Zanos]

What if the "outfit" consists of actual magic items like a Mnemonic Vestment + a Tunic of Careful Casting + a Cloak of Resistance + Boots of Striding and Springing + a Glove of Storing + etc ?
RAW probably not. The outfit itself is one set of items, so I think technically if you sold the one you started with it and bought another set it would count against your weight limit. I'll provide the exact quote so people can fight about it:

Different characters may want different outfits for various occasions.
A beginning character is assumed to have an artisan’s, entertainer’s,
explorer’s, monk’s, peasant’s, scholar’s, or traveler’s outfit. This first
outfit is free and does not count against the amount of weight a
character can carry.


Mules can be exceedingly annoying with all those Handle Animal checks, and they can't go down 5-foot-wide corridors, which are common in a dungeon. :smallyuk:
You could just tie it up outside. If you're worried about it somewhere you could just pay some cheap hirelings to tie them up and watch them. The DC for an animal to do a trick it knows is DC 10 anyway, so you can make the check by just having the skill trained and taking 10.


Seems kind of a waste when you can buy a real, slotless +1 to strength for a little over 1k.

I think PF did it a lot better with the Muleback Cords.
+1 strength gives you no benefit other than the carrying capacity increase if it isn't increasing your modifier. A 6/8 Str Wizard loses nothing from buying the weight belt, but saves a decent chunk of gold. That said, even if it was boosting your mod, a caster probably wouldn't have much use for it anyway.

[Urpriest]

Seems kind of a waste when you can buy a real, slotless +1 to strength for a little over 1k.


What are you referring to? IIRC all items that give a non-inherent bonus to an ability score are multiples of two.

[Story]

What are you referring to? IIRC all items that give a non-inherent bonus to an ability score are multiples of two.

Extract Gift.

[Gadora]

This becomes a much less horrible option once you have 1500 gp to blow on the Easy Travel armor property from MIC.

Easy Travel armor <3
I'm not sure how I forgot that. I mean, there was a period where all my characters were getting that- even the large, strength 33 character, who only carried 240 pounds of gear. Really wishing that PbP hadn't died... it would have been fun to do something with her 3200 pound light load.

Extract Gift.

That's nice, but when the lifting belt is useful is going to be the early game, long before level 5 spell slots are a thing.

[Uby1234]

Yes they can. They aren't huge. They can't fight effectively in such a corridor, but they aren't fighting anyway.
No, they can't. They are Large size, and therefore take up a 2x2 area. (although they are useful in wilderness adventures). Even in wilderness, they are still annoying. It'd be much better to get a bag of holding as soon as you can afford it, and put everything but armor, a weapon, and a few other things, like wands of cure light wounds. Trust me, I know. I tried a mule once, and it DID NOT WORK. I got a bag of holding type ll right when I had 5,000 gp, and sold the stinking mule. That was as good as Elysium. The mule was as good as Hades.

[Zanos]

No, they can't. They are Large size, and therefore take up a 2x2 area. (although they are useful in wilderness adventures). Even in wilderness, they are still annoying. It'd be much better to get a bag of holding as soon as you can afford it, and put everything but armor, a weapon, and a few other things, like wands of cure light wounds. Trust me, I know. I tried a mule once, and it DID NOT WORK. I got a bag of holding type ll right when I had 5,000 gp, and sold the stinking mule. That was as good as Elysium. The mule was as good as Hades.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Movement,_Position,_and_Distance#Squeezing

[Uby1234]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Movement,_Position,_and_Distance#Squeezing
That says you have to squeeze in, which makes mules even more annoying. Gotcha.

[Urpriest]

That says you have to squeeze in, which makes mules even more annoying. Gotcha.

Squeezing just makes you move a bit more slowly and be worse at combat. If you're in a bunch of 5ft corridors that doesn't especially matter, you won't be moving fast as a party anyway.

[Uby1234]

Squeezing just makes you move a bit more slowly and be worse at combat. If you're in a bunch of 5ft corridors that doesn't especially matter, you won't be moving fast as a party anyway.
Excuse me, did I say that mules are annoying? I believe I did. Get off my thread, Emissary of Gruumsh. :smallfurious:

[Carth]

Horses are only 3'~ wide in real life. Sure, you could enforce squeezing on them, but nobody finishes up a session by saying 'good job everyone, we sure did a good job following the rules tonight!' Horses, mules, and so forth, are only sized as large so they can be used as mounts by medium creatures, and because the game developers decided to make a silly standard about mounts generally needing to be a size larger than their riders.

[Uby1234]

Horses are only 3'~ wide in real life. Sure, you could enforce squeezing on them, but nobody finishes up a session by saying 'good job everyone, we sure did a good job following the rules tonight!' Horses, mules, and so forth, are only sized as large so they can be used as mounts by medium creatures, and because the game developers decided to make a silly standard about mounts generally needing to be a size larger than their riders.
Were you infected by an allip? You should get someone to cast power word kill on you.

[Eldariel]

Horses are only 3'~ wide in real life. Sure, you could enforce squeezing on them, but nobody finishes up a session by saying 'good job everyone, we sure did a good job following the rules tonight!' Horses, mules, and so forth, are only sized as large so they can be used as mounts by medium creatures, and because the game developers decided to make a silly standard about mounts generally needing to be a size larger than their riders.

Well no, actually it's just the 3.5 simplification removing the size for "Large - Long". This is because the game has no facing so the creature has to be assumed to be facing every direction at once. Yeah, it's dumb but those are the rules. Apparently facing was too complicated to implement.

[Urpriest]

Well no, actually it's just the 3.5 simplification removing the size for "Large - Long". This is because the game has no facing so the creature has to be assumed to be facing every direction at once. Yeah, it's dumb but those are the rules. Apparently facing was too complicated to implement.

To be fair, it's not like a horse with only 5ft of room is going to be able to fight effectively, or be able to move as fast as it could if it had room to maneuver. And while it could travel down a 5ft corridor, it probably couldn't make progress if the corridor was 2.5 ft wide, while a medium-sized creature like a human could.

Basically, Long didn't work if you assumed that combat spaces were actually as big as they were assumed to be. Horses aren't any better at fighting side by side in close quarters than gorillas are.

[Scumbaggery]

How about a Tortoise? Unless you carry enough items to make Atlas jealous, that could work.

Or hire a really high Strength bard for 1 gp a day to lug your stuff instead.

[Uby1234]

How about a Tortoise? Unless you carry enough items to make Atlas jealous, that could work.

Or hire a really high Strength bard for 1 gp a day to lug your stuff instead.

Why a bard? :smallconfused:

[eggynack]

Why a bard? :smallconfused:
Cause they can sing songs of your exploits, and they're generally party friendly, even at low levels. Inspire courage is always a good thing.

[TETanglebrooke]

Excuse me, did I say that mules are annoying? I believe I did. Get off my thread, Emissary of Gruumsh. :smallfurious:

More annoying than being encumbered? More annoying than meticulously counting your weights?


Were you infected by an allip? You should get someone to cast power word kill on you.
that doesn't really contribute to the conversation at all.

You should really ask yourself why anyone would try to give you advice if you get angry and tell them to die.