Miron/Hayley - Emperor/Vader - Gekko/Fox

[davidbofinger]

Miron appears to be the most mercenary villain we've seen. He's sort of the dark mirror to early Hayley, who was very mercenary but escaped falling into evil.

In fact, he created early Hayley, at least he afflicted her with his mercenary personality, by sending the ransom letter about her father.

It's almost like he's the emperor, and she's a less successfully seduced version of Anakin. Of course the seduction was incidental and accidental, rather than deliberate, but much the same thing could be said of Gordon Gekko's seduction of Bud Fox.

OK, it's a stretch...

[Harbinger]

Whilst I can see Miron being a "dark mirror", as you put it, of early Haley, I think the rest of it is really pushing it.

[ChristianSt]

In fact, he created early Hayley, at least he afflicted her with his mercenary personality, by sending the ransom letter about her father.

Just no:

Haley was a happy member of the Thieves Guild before getting that ransom letter. So he gave her only a reason to want more money (which resulted in her leaving the Thieves Guild)

[NerdyKris]

Miron appears to be the most mercenary villain we've seen.

I think you're reading a lot of what you want to see into the character. All we know is that he doesn't want to risk his life for Tarquin's little stage play. That is, in fact, LITERALLY all we know. And it's a reason 90% of the population would give when asked to risk their life for a silly fantasy. I wouldn't say he's any more mercenary than Enor and Gannji.


He's sort of the dark mirror to early Hayley, who was very mercenary but escaped falling into evil.


Except we don't see any sign of him having an obsession with gold. Just that he wants to be paid if he's going to be risking his life for something that doesn't affect him or anything, really.



In fact, he created early Hayley, at least he afflicted her with his mercenary personality, by sending the ransom letter about her father.


No he didn't. She was greedy long before that ransom letter.

[rodneyAnonymous]

I wouldn't say he's any more mercenary than Enor and Gannji.

This statement does not support your point. Enor and Gannji are bounty hunters, which is like one definition of mercenary. Miron couldn't be any more mercenary if he was at their level.

[NerdyKris]

Poor phrasing. I meant Enor and Gannji are actual mercenaries, so Miron hasn't done anything that would somehow make him "The most mercenary" when we've seen two actual mercenaries.

[rodneyAnonymous]

The OP claim is that Miron is the most mercenary villain we've seen, and those two were not villains. Even though we barely know anything about Miron, that is probably true. Several speech bubbles devoted to whether and how much he gets paid, never mind the ransom note.

I agree with the second post, though: the first two sentences are fine, but it gets pretty wild / improbable after that.

[ella ventic]

In one of the OtOoPCs commentaries Rich mentions that part of Haley's story in that book was to show that (it's not actually a spoiler but just for those of you that want to stay 100% unsullied):

she was indeed a greedy thief long before she got the ransom note.

[Gift Jeraff]

Just no:

Haley was a happy member of the Thieves Guild before getting that ransom letter. So he gave her only a reason to want more money (which resulted in her leaving the Thieves Guild)

You're thinking of Haley. We're talking about Hayley.

[Ceaon]

You're thinking of Haley. We're talking about Hayley.

On a forum in writing responding medium in writing, these errors never cease to amaze me.
Haley/Hayley, Xykon/Zykon, Dorukan/Dorkan Tsukiko/Tuksiko... just a few of the many miswritings out there.

[Kish]

The OP claim is that Miron is the most mercenary villain we've seen, and those two were not villains.
...really? Unless "Evil-aligned" is a prerequisite for "villain" and Miko failed her design goal right out of the gate, I'd say Enor and Gannji were certainly villains. They attacked the Order in their introduction, they fought every member of the Order except Durkon, and they actively rejected the idea of doing anything that didn't hurt the Order, repeatedly. The fact that Elan was pleased they did not die doesn't make them not villains (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0914.html).

[Bulldog Psion]

I don't think Miron is any more or less mercenary than the rest of his team, personally. It's just another case of the forum taking a fragmentary quote and blowing it up into something it isn't, just like the wacky theory that Malack is a completely different soul/spirit/identity because of his statement, rather than just someone changed by the experience of vampirism, IMO.

Tarquin says he gets to "live like a god" because of the scheme. Though power's part of that, of course, it's also a big "money money money" thing also. Sure, each one may have their individual uses for said money, but I don't think that Miron is intended to differ significantly from his teammates.

Or at least, I believe that the evidence we've seen isn't sufficient to set his amount of money desire apart from that of his fellows.


...really? Unless "Evil-aligned" is a prerequisite for "villain" and Miko failed her design goal right out of the gate, I'd say Enor and Gannji were certainly villains. They attacked the Order in their introduction, they fought every member of the Order except Durkon, and they actively rejected the idea of doing anything that didn't hurt the Order, repeatedly. The fact that Elan was pleased they did not die doesn't make them not villains (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0914.html).

Wouldn't the term "antagonist" be more accurate than "villain" in this context?

[rodneyAnonymous]

...really? Unless "Evil-aligned" is a prerequisite for "villain"...

Yes, I think evil alignment is a prerequisite for being a villain. Miko was an antagonist but not a villain IMO, similar to Enor and Gannji,

[Kish]

Does that make the bandit chief's father's status ambiguous?

Rich described him as "dark side of neutral at best," indicating that Rich didn't bother to decide whether he was dark-side-of-neutral or actually evil. So is his status as a villain or merely as an antagonist dependent on which side of that line he falls on?

[hamishspence]

Plenty of Neutral characters can be antagonistic enough to qualify as villains in general.

Captain Jack Sparrow is CN according to Complete Scoundrel- but he'd make a great villain for a party of pirate hunters.

[Yumori Zatsuken]

Who the hell is 'Hayley"?

Is he/she the MitD?

Anyway, Miron is a little NOT like early Haley, Miron seems to be a Merc that seems loyal to Tarquin. The early Haley, on the other hand, greedy to money but changed after the Ransom Letter.

[Math_Mage]

Bozzok and Gannji are the most mercenary villains in OotS to this point. Miron doesn't even rate. The rest of the OP is too silly to comment on.

[M.A.D]

Miron appears to be the most mercenary villain we've seen. He's sort of the dark mirror to early Hayley, who was very mercenary but escaped falling into evil.

In fact, he created early Hayley, at least he afflicted her with his mercenary personality, by sending the ransom letter about her father.

It's almost like he's the emperor, and she's a less successfully seduced version of Anakin. Of course the seduction was incidental and accidental, rather than deliberate, but much the same thing could be said of Gordon Gekko's seduction of Bud Fox.

OK, it's a stretch...

I remember reading one of the Giant's comment about a scene in OOPCs, where Haley said that she'll take 10% of her dad's all future earnings as reward for saving him. He said that he made this scene and dialogue show readers that Haley was greedy from the beginning, and totally not influenced by the fact that she's gathering money to save Ian.

Also, rather than escaping, I think Haley was never even close to fall to evil in the first place. Her upbringing involved surviving and thriving among thieves and robbers, and yet she still managed to stay on the shallow end of the alignment pool. It helps when her dad's shtick is something akin to an economic-savvy Robin Hood.

[Quild]

On a forum in writing responding medium in writing, these errors never cease to amaze me.
Haley/Hayley, Xykon/Zykon, Dorukan/Dorkan Tsukiko/Tuksiko... just a few of the many miswritings out there.

It's only after reading the 5 books and posting a lot on forums that I realized that I've been spelling (and reading) Danaerys instead of Daenerys the whole time. Greek reference maybe.

Also Zykon may be a joke in reference of Start of Darkness.

[Shred-Bot]

On a forum in writing responding medium in writing, these errors never cease to amaze me.
Haley/Hayley, Xykon/Zykon, Dorukan/Dorkan Tsukiko/Tuksiko... just a few of the many miswritings out there.

It's a good thing Durkon and Dorukan really have nothing to do with each other. (at least so far... dun dun DUN!) A thread about the two of them would get completely derailed by typo confusion.