Important ToB question

[Irk]

If you could qualify for a second level maneuver at first level (can't take it because of initiator level), could you take a second level maneuver with martial study?
This is kinda s stupid question, but it stems from what happens if a first level non ToB character takes martial study?
I would expect the answer to the former to be no, but since it says the feat says that you just have to pick a maneuver that you qualify for, which you could in the above scenario, it might work.
If it did, that would be stupid because it would mean 9th level maneuver/stances at first level. But I'm not 100% sure, so I'm just checking.

[theIrkin]

I'm having a little trouble figuring out exactly what you mean by your question. But I think I know what you meant to ask, and here's the question as I see it and the answer as I know it:

Question: When taking my first level of an initiator class (ToB base class or PrC that qualifies) can I choose maneuvers known of higher than first level if my initiator level is 3+? Furthermore, can I take higher level maneuvers at 1st level with the Martial Study feat?

Answer: The level of maneuver you may select is based solely on your initiator level (1/2 of non-initiator classes lvl's + initiator classes lvl's). You must still meet other listed requirements within the individual maneuvers/stances.

So, if you just hit level 3 and are taking your first level in Warmage, you may select level 1 or 2 maneuvers as long as you meet the individual maneuver's requirements.

Hope that helps and is clear.

[Red Fel]

If you could qualify for a second level maneuver at first level (can't take it because of initiator level), could you take a second level maneuver with martial study?
This is kinda s stupid question, but it stems from what happens if a first level non ToB character takes martial study?
I would expect the answer to the former to be no, but since it says the feat says that you just have to pick a maneuver that you qualify for, which you could in the above scenario, it might work.
If it did, that would be stupid because it would mean 9th level maneuver/stances at first level. But I'm not 100% sure, so I'm just checking.

1: No. The key language of Martial Study:


Select any maneuver from the chosen discipline for which you meet the prerequisite.(Emphasis added.)

"Prerequisite" includes initiator level, as well as prior maneuver prerequisites. So, if you don't have the IL, you can't take a maneuver via Martial Study until you have the IL and any prerequisite number of maneuvers.

2: For a non-ToB character, IL is 1/2 character level. For a first-level character, that would be 0.5. If we round down, that suggests that you can't take Martial Study at first level, because an IL of 0 would entitle you to nothing. If we round up, your IL is 1, and your selection is limited to 1st-level maneuvers.

3: No, you can't get 9th-level maneuvers at level 1.

[Big Fau]

3: No, you can't get 9th-level maneuvers at level 1.

Erm, well, kinda. You can take a level in the Martial Monk variant (Dragon, forget which issue) that lets you trade the Monk bonus feats for any Fighter bonus feats, sans prerequisites.

It's an abuse of Paizo's bad editing that enables it though.

[OldTrees1]

Erm, well, kinda. You can take a level in the Martial Monk variant (Dragon, forget which issue) that lets you trade the Monk bonus feats for any Fighter bonus feats, sans prerequisites.

It's an abuse of Paizo's bad editing that enables it though.
Martial Monk only removes the prerequisites of the feat, not the prerequisites for any of the options the benefits give. (aka it does not ignore the prerequisites of the maneuvers)

Ex:
Kinhater
Prerequisites: Humanoid
Benefits: Choose a race that you have the racial subtype for, gain favored enemy +4 against that racial subtype.

Ignoring the prerequisites of the feat would allow an Outsider(tanar'ri) to gain favored enemy tanar'ri +4.
Ignoring the prerequisites of the feat would not allow a Humanoid(Orc) to gain favored enemy Elf +4.

Since IL is a prerequisite for the maneuver, and the option to pick a maneuver is a benefit of the feat, the prerequisites of the maneuver are not prerequisites of the feat. Since Martial Monk only permits ignoring the prerequisites of the feat and the IL requirement is not part of the feat prerequisites, Martial Monk does not ignore the IL requirement.